Internet rabbit hole. Mexico's cartel war.

[crash_davis 23113]

No idea how I got here but this is a great subreddit about the cartels war in Mexico. I don't know shit about it. All I know is that it's been going on for decades. Kill one leader, get rid of one cartel, others take their places. Endless.

Anyway, this subreddit has some very graphic videos. Supposedly there was a big shootout this past weekend involving CJNG cartel vs other "cartels" and the government. 

Helicopter go brrrrrr.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNarcoblog701/comments/lq2agj/a_helicopter_was_called_to_help_take_out_a/

Subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNarcoblog701/

Make sure you read the comments. They give more context and links to some graphic videos. 

Good video of the what's happening. I feel bad for the people. Sounds like some don't have any choice but to be part of the war.

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

As long as there are billions of $ at stake there will be people willing to step in and do it.  It will be never ending (which is pretty much the whole point of it) until you take the massive amount of $ out of it.

[crash_davis 23113]

16 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

As long as there are billions of $ at stake there will be people willing to step in and do it.  It will be never ending (which is pretty much the whole point of it) until you take the massive amount of $ out of it.

Agreed that their wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't a demand. That demand is coming from US and Europe.

So we legalize drugs. Great for us. But that doesn't stop the shitshow in Mexico. The cartels will still war with each other to be the supplier of our legal drugs.

[utee94 15823]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Agreed that their wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't a demand. That demand is coming from US and Europe.

So we legalize drugs. Great for us. But that doesn't stop the shitshow in Mexico. The cartels will still war with each other to be the supplier of our legal drugs.

And limes.  No foolin'.

 

[crash_davis 23113]

and avocados, cilantro and any other goods produced by farms and factories in the areas that they control.

But that money probably pales compared to the cartels' main source of income, drugs. 

[Deej 76791]

This is where the real money is at...

 

[davidg 4038]

Barrel of a Barrett sticking out of the front window of an armored Raptor isn't something you see everyday.  

[utee94 15823]

9 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

and avocados, cilantro and any other goods produced by farms and factories in the areas that they control.

But that money probably pales compared to the cartels' main source of income, drugs. 

For sure.  Sadly there are probably always going to be cartels operating in Mexico. 

I think removing the big money coming in from illegal drugs, would result in them being poorer-armed and equipped for damage.  But people will still kill each other with 2x4s if that's all that's available.

[TwiceHorn 31471]

If you like this stuff, er, enjoy reading about it, I can't recommend Don WInslow's Cartel Series enough.  It's fiction, but historically accurate.

[Bevo 13577]

15 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

and avocados, cilantro and any other goods produced by farms and factories in the areas that they control.

But that money probably pales compared to the cartels' main source of income, drugs. 

The cartels also do the Mafia thing. I was talking to a guy who had a high end restaurant in Cancun. He sold it because he didn't want to get involved in the shakedown.

[troph 24798]

as long as legal drugs are taxed (as they should be) there will always be black market/illegal drugs. 

[texashorne 1178]

Legalizing drugs would help, but the cartels have diversified themselves into any and every industry in Mexico that yields a profit. Avocados, hotels, oil and gas, ect. Its part of the Mexican fabric. Your only hope is to have a "good" cartel running your territory.  

[crash_davis 23113]

I heard that cartels are involved in or bank roll some of the resort hotel chains. They are true conglomerations with robust diversified revenue portfolios. Money machine go brrrrrr.

What's their trading symbols? 

[BabaYaga 15298]

Listen to and follow former Mexican federal agent Ed Calderon (Eds_manifesto).  Dude is legit.  Spent much of his life fighting the cartels.  He's been on all the larger podcasts (JRE, etc)

Sobering to listen to him.  Legalization at this point will do exactly jack squat.  Catels are in almost every major town.  Nobody adapts like they do.  They have even made overt threats that is Europe of the US made major moves against them, you'd see ISIS/AQ-type attacks on domestic soil.  Further, they'd poison the product, leading to millions of casualties that would easily overwhelm the HC system overnight and make COVID look like a wet fart in a windstorm.  

Nor are drugs their bread/butter.  Mining and human trafficking are their newest and most lucrative revenue sources.  Legalize tomorrow 100% of it, with taxes and costs, the black-market still thrives.  As with China and the CCP, there is no longer a distinction between "legal" business in Mexico that don't have a cartel influence.  

[Samson's Wig 3192]

At what point do we just annex the back 40?  America could use some more space - it's getting crowded in here.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Yes there is always going to be organized crime, and it's going to be worse in countries like Mexico.  That cocaine seizure in Europe was listed as being worth $2.5 billion dollars for 23 metric tons.  That's $49,319 per pound.  Compare that to a commodity like say coffee beans at $1.37 per pound. If you legalize it at least you won't have cartels that can field armies and buy entire governments. 

[BabaYaga 15298]

37 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

If you legalize it at least you won't have cartels that can field armies and buy entire governments. 

I think that horse is already out of the barn.  As stated, they make more money now on "legal" operations such as mining, logging, and exports, which then shield all their other "less legal" investments.  

Take the Zetas on the border, they supposedly make as much on extortion as they do on drugs.  They are multi-national corporations that adapt to market pressures like we've never seen before.  Drug revenue is no longer the primary income source for most any more.  

[pch 1259]

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/

Another site that has some of the latest information on cartel activity.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

At what point do we just annex the back 40?  America could use some more space - it's getting crowded in here.

Baja is essentially an extension of California....     Take away Tijuana and what is the population of Mexican vs Norte Americanos who at least live down there 6 months out of the year?

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

2 hours ago, texashorne said:

Legalizing drugs would help, but the cartels have diversified themselves into any and every industry in Mexico that yields a profit. Avocados, hotels, oil and gas, ect. Its part of the Mexican fabric. Your only hope is to have a "good" cartel running your territory.  

The cartels are a now  major supplier of Meth and other synthetic drugs since you can't go into your CVS, Walgreens etc. and get the igrediants to make it yourself without showing a picture ID and swearing your life away to a Club Fed you are not buying that Zrytec D for Meth production.   ....   They know our attitudes for weed and other "natural" drugs are softening as far as possession and use (at least for weed) so that takes out some of the risk which drives the price up on the street.   But for the most part and thankfully so most of the US has a no go for the synthetic stuff or Meth.   Ask any EMT or ER worker about how horrifying that crap is.  

[crash_davis 23113]

Have a buddy who has a step brother who's family is originally from Mexico. Step brother has cousin who lived in Acapulco. He heard that the local cartel was looking to kidnap him so he fled to the US for a year. Before anyone gets ragey, he was born in the US. 

Anyway, he decides that enough time had passed that the cartels prob still don't want to kidnap him. He goes back to Acapulco. Was there a week when one night he came home, dudes were waiting in his house and kidnapped him. He was held for a week in various places. Was always wrist tied and blind folded. He was with a bunch of other people. Every night, the Cartel would chop up the people whose relatives did not pay. He said that was god awful hearing people get hacked to death a few times every night. One day they drive him in a car. He's thinking he's going to get chopped up and dumped in some nameless pit. They stop, tell him to get out and walk. Blind folded and wrist tied, he keeps walking thinking at any minute some dude is going to blow his brains out. He keeps walking and nothing happens. He's found hours later by people. I can't remember where he was found but it was nowhere near Acapulco. Doesn't know how long from time he was told to walk to the time that people found him. Says it was at least half a day.

Family paid the ransom. He was lucky. The others weren't so lucky.

It's a fucked up situation down there.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Have a buddy who has a step brother who's family is originally from Mexico. Step brother has cousin who lived in Acapulco. He heard that the local cartel was looking to kidnap him so he fled to the US for a year. Before anyone gets ragey, he was born in the US. 

Anyway, he decides that enough time had passed that the cartels prob still don't want to kidnap him. He goes back to Acapulco. Was there a week when one night he came home, dudes were waiting in his house and kidnapped him. He was held for a week in various places. Was always wrist tied and blind folded. He was with a bunch of other people. Every night, the Cartel would chop up the people whose relatives did not pay. He said that was god awful hearing people get hacked to death a few times every night. One day they drive him in a car. He's thinking he's going to get chopped up and dumped in some nameless pit. They stop, tell him to get out and walk. Blind folded and wrist tied, he keeps walking thinking at any minute some dude is going to blow his brains out. He keeps walking and nothing happens. He's found hours later by people. I can't remember where he was found but it was nowhere near Acapulco. Doesn't know how long from time he was told to walk to the time that people found him. Says it was at least half a day.

Family paid the ransom. He was lucky. The others weren't so lucky.

It's a fucked up situation down there.

Acapulco is a case study of how a the cartels have destroyed a once thriving area.   Back in the day,  Cancun, Cabo and Puerto Vallarta pretty much took second seat to Acapulco.... 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

My first honeymoon was in Acapulco at the Las Brisas.  Balcony overlooking the bay and a private walled pool for the room.  There was a hatch in the wall that they could leave meals in without seeing into the pool area.  A lot of fucking went on in that pool.  Rented a pink jeep one day just to get out of the room

[twosheds 374]

And limes.  No foolin'.
 

And avocados

[Restinmybones 111]

{Sarcasm}

Bomb and regime change Mexico....

{Sarcasm}

 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Soy mencho wey!

 

[BabaYaga 15298]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Have a buddy who has a step brother who's family is originally from Mexico. Step brother has cousin who lived in Acapulco. He heard that the local cartel was looking to kidnap him so he fled to the US for a year. Before anyone gets ragey, he was born in the US. 

Anyway, he decides that enough time had passed that the cartels prob still don't want to kidnap him. He goes back to Acapulco. Was there a week when one night he came home, dudes were waiting in his house and kidnapped him. He was held for a week in various places. Was always wrist tied and blind folded. He was with a bunch of other people. Every night, the Cartel would chop up the people whose relatives did not pay. He said that was god awful hearing people get hacked to death a few times every night. One day they drive him in a car. He's thinking he's going to get chopped up and dumped in some nameless pit. They stop, tell him to get out and walk. Blind folded and wrist tied, he keeps walking thinking at any minute some dude is going to blow his brains out. He keeps walking and nothing happens. He's found hours later by people. I can't remember where he was found but it was nowhere near Acapulco. Doesn't know how long from time he was told to walk to the time that people found him. Says it was at least half a day.

Family paid the ransom. He was lucky. The others weren't so lucky.

It's a fucked up situation down there.

Another of Ed's points is that the cartel is so ingrained into virtually every city, were there an attack of incursion with military forces, cartel goons are positioned to take action against LE and military families.  Some scary chit.  The narco-state is real.  

Here's a hell of an interview

Depth of Cartel Corruption

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Also, from wikipedia, one of these things is not like the other:

Quote

The Zetas involved themselves in more than drug trafficking and have also been connected to human trafficking, pipeline trafficked oil theft, extortion, and trading unlicensed CDs

 

[Blotto 23511]

its just matter of time before they muscle in on the 8 track market

[That Guy 955]

I hope nobody ever cuts off my arm and uses it to flex in a tik tok video 

[Orale 1087]

2 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Acapulco is a case study of how a the cartels have destroyed a once thriving area.   Back in the day,  Cancun, Cabo and Puerto Vallarta pretty much took second seat to Acapulco.... 

Yep, went to Acapulco a couple times in high school with friends. Was an awesome place. Wouldn't even think of going back now. 

[Orale 1087]

2 hours ago, Restinmybones said:

{Sarcasm}

Bomb and regime change Mexico....

{Sarcasm}

 

I wonder if U.S. military operations (with Mexican gov acquiescence) would be able to drive out the cartels. Or would it just be a modern version of Viet Nam and Afghanistan. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Listen to and follow former Mexican federal agent Ed Calderon (Eds_manifesto).  Dude is legit.  Spent much of his life fighting the cartels.  He's been on all the larger podcasts (JRE, etc)

Sobering to listen to him.  Legalization at this point will do exactly jack squat.  Catels are in almost every major town.  Nobody adapts like they do.  They have even made overt threats that is Europe of the US made major moves against them, you'd see ISIS/AQ-type attacks on domestic soil.  Further, they'd poison the product, leading to millions of casualties that would easily overwhelm the HC system overnight and make COVID look like a wet fart in a windstorm.  

Nor are drugs their bread/butter.  Mining and human trafficking are their newest and most lucrative revenue sources.  Legalize tomorrow 100% of it, with taxes and costs, the black-market still thrives.  As with China and the CCP, there is no longer a distinction between "legal" business in Mexico that don't have a cartel influence.  

They are every bit as evil as ISIS but they are not stupid,  and they know they are incapable of coping with the hornet's nest of drone strikes that would follow. The last thing they want is to provoke the US military into action. Rule #1 in the narco bible: Never draw heat. (Especially if said heat takes the form of precision air strikes.)

[Restinmybones 111]

32 minutes ago, Orale said:

I wonder if U.S. military operations (with Mexican gov acquiescence) would be able to drive out the cartels. Or would it just be a modern version of Viet Nam and Afghanistan. 

I have almost no doubt it would be a Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria and turn Mexico into a place that would make present day Mexico look like Shangri-La.  

[SDG 3319]

55 minutes ago, Orale said:

I wonder if U.S. military operations (with Mexican gov acquiescence) would be able to drive out the cartels. Or would it just be a modern version of Viet Nam and Afghanistan. 

Or you could go Portugal and make "drugs" legal thus killing the exclusivity/price.  

[Orale 1087]

12 minutes ago, SDG said:

Or you could go Portugal and make "drugs" legal thus killing the exclusivity/price.  

I've been to Portugal a couple times and absolutely love it. But isn't there a distinction between a consumer drug nation versus a producer drug nation? Legalizing drugs may reduce all the negative stuff for developed nations, but would legalization make a difference for developing nations that produce and transport drugs? I really don't know. 

[atomheartbevo 89668]

37 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They are every bit as evil as ISIS but they are not stupid,  and they know they are incapable of coping with the hornet's nest of drone strikes that would follow. The last thing they want is to provoke the US military into action. Rule #1 in the narco bible: Never draw heat. (Especially if said heat takes the form of precision air strikes.)

Which is why, for all of the fuckery going on in Juarez, they don't fuck around with El Paso too much.  They don't want to find out.

[Helobious 9454]

Used to go to Mexico to see relatives in Monterrey or Nuevo Laredo at least once a year as a kid. Been going way less often since 06 when the war popped off, was last was there over a year ago. I usually don’t feel too unsafe. Only travel during the day, keep a low profile, don’t travel with only males in the car, drive a shitty car, and make sure your insurance card doesn’t have any nice cars listed on it either (they’ll check). Do all that you’ll generally be fine. 

[davidg 4038]

54 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They are every bit as evil as ISIS but they are not stupid,  and they know they are incapable of coping with the hornet's nest of drone strikes that would follow. The last thing they want is to provoke the US military into action. Rule #1 in the narco bible: Never draw heat. (Especially if said heat takes the form of precision air strikes.)

Circular error probability zero. Impact with high-order detonation. Have a nice day.

[Bevo 13577]

12 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Used to go to Mexico to see relatives in Monterrey or Nuevo Laredo at least once a year as a kid. Been going way less often since 06 when the war popped off, was last was there over a year ago. I usually don’t feel too unsafe. Only travel during the day, keep a low profile, don’t travel with only males in the car, drive a shitty car, and make sure your insurance card doesn’t have any nice cars listed on it either (they’ll check). Do all that you’ll generally be fine. 

Quite the endorsement.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Bevo

[achooloco 1072]

9 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Agreed that their wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't a demand. That demand is coming from US and Europe.

So we legalize drugs. Great for us. But that doesn't stop the shitshow in Mexico. The cartels will still war with each other to be the supplier of our legal drugs.

Sam’s shoots Costco employees for over stepping their boundaries? CVS be cappin’ Duane reade pharma reps when they open across the street? 

[achooloco 1072]

7 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Yes there is always going to be organized crime, and it's going to be worse in countries like Mexico.  That cocaine seizure in Europe was listed as being worth $2.5 billion dollars for 23 metric tons.  That's $49,319 per pound.  Compare that to a commodity like say coffee beans at $1.37 per pound. If you legalize it at least you won't have cartels that can field armies and buy entire governments. 

Sure but that’s just called corruption

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

There was a gentlemen we used to take back and forth to Tampico with dual citizenship who owned the local Coca Cola distributorship. We took him down there in 08 to get his family out. He told us his business partner had been kidnapped and killed, and he was done.

He said the cartels always ran the city,  but in the past they didn’t really allow any crime and just wanted to move their product. But anything goes was the order of the day with the current groups.

We were waiting on him and his family to show at the airport when a gunfight erupted maybe a block or two away. And it kept going for some time. We agreed that I would jump in and start an engine, and that we were leaving if it came any closer. The family arrived shortly thereafter.

F that place. 

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

CJNG has been the up and comer. They is fairly new, but yeah they violent af, even compared to other carteleros. And that’s saying a lot. 

The question is after they bury The Diaz Brothers like cockaroaches (read: most of the other less powerful cartels), do they go after Sinaloa...? Or do they just carve it all up between the two?

There’s plenty of money to be made and shared. 
Lesson Number 1: Don’t underestimate the other guy’s greed. 

You know what a chazer is, Frank? 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I'd love to know how much of the real estate boom in Texas and elsewhere is laundered cartel money. Back in the day, it just built Miami. Now I think it's all over the place. It cracks me up when I pick up some society rag in Houston and they are introducing some new power couple from south of the border...Dude is always described as being into "international finance" and the chick is a "philanthropist."

So many fucking Bond villains in Houston. It's wild.  

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

27 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'd love to know how much of the real estate boom in Texas and elsewhere is laundered cartel money. Back in the day, it just built Miami. Now I think it's all over the place. It cracks me up when I pick up some society rag in Houston and they are introducing some new power couple from south of the border...Dude is always described as being into "international finance" and the chick is a "philanthropist."

So many fucking Bond villains in Houston. It's wild.  

It built quite a few new digs on the frontera as far back as I can remember. 

Bond villains in Houston, doesn’t even count the commodities traders who get sued by each other. Nothing like embezzlement and using the corporate card on personal shit, bankrupting the company. 
Plenty of shady people/money, non-liquid $100k faux-millionaires in Houston.

A lot of real ones too.

Too many people spend money they earned to buy things they don’t want to impress people they don’t like. - Will Rogers 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

16 minutes ago, JerrysJheriCurl said:

It built quite a few new digs on the frontera as far back as I can remember. 

Bond villains in Houston, doesn’t even count the commodities traders who get sued by each other. Nothing like embezzlement and using the corporate card on personal shit, bankrupting the company. 
Plenty of shady people/money, non-liquid $100k faux-millionaires in Houston.

A lot of real ones too.

Too many people spend money they earned to buy things they don’t want to impress people they don’t like. - Will Rogers 

Highland Village, all of it, was built by some Middle Eastern arms dealer who may or may not have been murked by the Mossad. Nobody knows. 

There's some other dude in River Oaks who absconded from Iran with billions in gold and treasure from the Shah's treasury and became a pillar of the community in Houston. Just the tip of the iceberg.  

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Highland Village, all of it, was built by some Middle Eastern arms dealer who may or may not have been murked by the Mossad. Nobody knows. 

There's some other dude in River Oaks who absconded from Iran with billions in gold and treasure from the Shah's treasury and became a pillar of the community in Houston. Just the tip of the iceberg.  

Very impressive my man. Very impressive. You know your stuff. Will leave names out, but I can confirm both. The father died of heart attack/pneumonia. Or so I was told.
Allegedly. 

[GringoSalado 1651]

13 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'd love to know how much of the real estate boom in Texas and elsewhere is laundered cartel money. Back in the day, it just built Miami. Now I think it's all over the place. It cracks me up when I pick up some society rag in Houston and they are introducing some new power couple from south of the border...Dude is always described as being into "international finance" and the chick is a "philanthropist."

So many fucking Bond villains in Houston. It's wild.  

The last housing crash skipped over the 915. Pretty much every Juarense that can afford a house in EP has one by now.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:44 AM, TwiceHorn said:

If you like this stuff, er, enjoy reading about it, I can't recommend Don WInslow's Cartel Series enough.  It's fiction, but historically accurate.

Thanks for the recommendation, I kind of want to start with the second book, as the time frame is a little more interesting. Would it be a mistake to skip the first one?