Internet rabbit hole. Mexico's cartel war.

[Nueces River Rat 5,529]

27 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

So, logically following, we should legalize fet and meth and sex work and then the cartels dry up and sell piñatas.

The cartels might move on to smuggling gas stoves and V-8 gas engines.

[SimonBolivar 10,928]

6 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Between this and Biden's visit to El Paso, it must have shifted a lot of traffic to the east. We crossed back into Texas at Laredo Saturday night/Sunday morning and from the time we got in line to the time we cleared customs it was 8.5 hours.

Shit I was thinking about hitting up Matamoros with a South Padre trip in a few weeks, but hell no with those waits.

[GringoSalado 1,651]

We should add weed to NAFTA and import that along with avocados & limes.

Only partially kidding, evidently New Jalisco has already taken over a lot of the ag sector, but what the hell. Just get them to concentrate on legal marijuana, which could be lucrative and employ a lot of people, and get them to stop exporting Meth and Fentanyl ffs.

Edited January 11, 2023 by GringoSalado
just ripped a sweet bong hit

[Hpara759 1,777]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The cartels might move on to smuggling gas stoves and V-8 gas engines.

 

[UT_OB1 2,200]

2 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The cartels might move on to smuggling gas stoves and V-8 gas engines.

You can get the same mini split systems they sell here for about 1/3-1/2 the price from people bringing them over. Allegedly. 

[El Tri 401]

2 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Shit I was thinking about hitting up Matamoros with a South Padre trip in a few weeks, but hell no with those waits.

these wait times aren't typical at all. it's all the US people returning from Mexico after spending Christmas/NYE there

[rage-a-holic 4,307]

10 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Between this and Biden's visit to El Paso, it must have shifted a lot of traffic to the east. We crossed back into Texas at Laredo Saturday night/Sunday morning and from the time we got in line to the time we cleared customs it was 8.5 hours.

Get Sentri or cross at Colombia

[Walte464 450]

8 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Shit I was thinking about hitting up Matamoros with a South Padre trip in a few weeks, but hell no with those waits.

Go to progreso and walk over, wait is 10-15 min max. I’ll probably be over there on Saturday.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

13 hours ago, Bevo said:

Why have prescriptions, then? Just legalize everything. If fentanyl is legal to sell, I see no reason for control of Tylenol 3, oxycodone, morphine, and then by extension everything else. Why would it be fine to buy morphine and heroin on the streets and not amoxicillin? 

Answering this against my better judgment, but overuse of antibiotics helps train diseases to fight said medicines and kill us with more efficiency. Opiates don't do that -- in fact, pure opiates are not that bad for your body at all, aside from the risk of addiction and overdose. Cocaine messes with your heart and nervous system, alcohol destroys your liver and kidneys, benzos are similiar, but the danger of opiates does not come from what they do to your internal organs but from how they rewire your brain. 

[Nueces River Rat 5,529]

8 hours ago, Walte464 said:

Go to progreso and walk over, wait is 10-15 min max. I’ll probably be over there on Saturday.

And go eat at the Red Snapper or the original Arturo’s.   Panchos for a couple of drinks! 

[williemackgarza 1,826]

Get Sentri or cross at Colombia

Come on, man.
We cross colombia to hunt.
Dont need more prople there!

[rage-a-holic 4,307]

1 minute ago, williemackgarza said:

Come on, man.
We cross colombia to hunt.
Dont need more prople there!

I don't think you're gonna see a mass rush of surlyites to Colombia. The car traffic is still pretty light. Most of the snowbird RV traffic and other people scared of Laredo/Tamaulipas in general cross at Eagle Pass.

[Blotto 23,434]

Quote

Mexico’s president said Wednesday his government will consider a plea by imprisoned drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman to be returned to Mexico, presumably to serve out his sentence.

Guzman, 64, was sentenced to life behind bars in the United States for a drug conspiracy that spread murder and mayhem for more than two decades.

Guzman has lived in poor conditions in prison since his 2019 conviction, said José Refugio Rodríguez, a Mexican lawyer who claims to represent him. Rodríguez told local media that Guzman hasn't had adequate access to sunlight, visits, good food or medical care.

The Mexican Embassy in Washington said in its Twitter account that it had received an email from Rodríguez about the issue and had turned it over to Mexico's Foreign relations Department.

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador said “we will review it,” adding: “You always have to keep the door open when it comes to human rights.”

The U.S. and Mexico have a prison transfer agreement that allows inmates convicted in one country to serve out their sentence in their home country under certain circumstances. But given Guzman's crimes, his sentence and the risks he purportedly still poses, many doubt the agreement would apply in his case.

Good luck with that, dude. 

[chainsaw 9,838]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:52 AM, YGIFS said:

It's been supposed to spill over since the War on Drugs went full throttle in the 1980's.  40 years later, there is no en masse cartel violence in the United States border states/cities.  Every year is supposed to the year, it's the Aggie Football of politics.  My mother's family stretches from Brownsville to Rio Grande City.  They don't shop in Mexico anymore and they barely use their deadbolts at home.    

As more and more states legalize more and more drugs, the violence in Mexico will get worse.  And the violence in the United States will decline.  Our own internal drug trade does just fine visiting violence upon itself without any help from our neighbors to the South.

I'm more curious what Americans who think the U.S. border towns have been warzones all this time, believe happens to drugs once they cross our border in bulk.  The mule isn't going to continue on across our interstate highway system.  Too big a risk.  You'd be very surprised how bulk narcotics make their way to distribution hubs around the country.  Hint, it isn't the cartels.  

 

[Parliament 14,135]

Nice

One of the world's most powerful drug lords, Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada, leader of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, has been arrested by US federal agents in El Paso, Texas.
Zambada, 76, founded the criminal organisation with Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, who is currently jailed in the US.
Arrested with Zambada on Thursday was Guzman's son, Joaquin Guzman Lopez, said the US justice department.
In February, Zambada was charged by US prosecutors with a conspiracy to make and distribute fentanyl, a drug more powerful than heroin that has been blamed for the US opioid crisis.
Citing Mexican and US officials, the Wall Street Journal reports that Zambada was tricked into boarding the plane by a high-ranking Sinaloa member following a months-long operation by Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI.
Believing that he was going to inspect clandestine airstrips in southern Mexico, Zambada was instead flown to a private airfield outside El Paso, Texas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng4g31x1wo

[Newdoc 3,433]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Nice

One of the world's most powerful drug lords, Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada, leader of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, has been arrested by US federal agents in El Paso, Texas.
Zambada, 76, founded the criminal organisation with Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, who is currently jailed in the US.
Arrested with Zambada on Thursday was Guzman's son, Joaquin Guzman Lopez, said the US justice department.
In February, Zambada was charged by US prosecutors with a conspiracy to make and distribute fentanyl, a drug more powerful than heroin that has been blamed for the US opioid crisis.
Citing Mexican and US officials, the Wall Street Journal reports that Zambada was tricked into boarding the plane by a high-ranking Sinaloa member following a months-long operation by Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI.
Believing that he was going to inspect clandestine airstrips in southern Mexico, Zambada was instead flown to a private airfield outside El Paso, Texas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng4g31x1wo

Now Netflix has more material for another season of Narcos.

 

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

Shit is going to get bad quick. Everyone is going to be jockeying for turf.

[atomheartbevo 89,430]

31 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Shit is going to get bad quick. Everyone is going to be jockeying for turf.

Maybe, but I hear there are a lot of clandestine airstrips in southern Mexico that need to inspected.

[BurntEyes 5,834]

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

US prosecutors with a conspiracy to make and distribute fentanyl, a drug more powerful than heroin that has been blamed for the US opioid crisis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng4g31x1wo

Ummm.. I realize it was the BBC but pretty sure fentanyl was not the cause for the US opioid crisis.

[TwiceHorn 31,274]

2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Ummm.. I realize it was the BBC but pretty sure fentanyl was not the cause for the US opioid crisis.

Well, it was oxy and hydro, which led to the heroin, which led to the fentanyl.  Fentanyl has supplanted them all at this point.

[BurntEyes 5,834]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, it was oxy and hydro, which led to the heroin, which led to the fentanyl.  Fentanyl has supplanted them all at this point.

Oh, I'm well aware. Prior to the point of big pharmaceutical and Healthcare combining forces through a lot of money changing hands, the Cartel had zero near zero interest in fentanyl production. They are going to listen to market demand though.

[field 216]

22 hours ago, Newdoc said:

Now Netflix has more material for another season of Narcos.

 

Sounds like a script from Narcos….

Chapito tricked him….

Quote

And late Saturday, criminal defense lawyer Frank Perez of Dallas told USA TODAY that his client, Zambada, did not get on the Beechcraft plane of his own accord, but as part of a deal by the son of El Chapo to negotiate a better plea agreement with U.S. authorities for himself.

"My client neither surrendered nor negotiated any terms with the U.S. government," Perez said in a statement given exclusively to USA TODAY. "Joaquin Guzman Lopez forcibly kidnapped my client. He was ambushed, thrown to the ground, and handcuffed by six men in military uniforms and Joaquin."

After that, Perez said, Zambada's "legs were tied, and a black bag was placed over his head. He was then thrown into the back of a pickup truck and taken to a landing strip. There, he was forced onto a plane, his legs tied to the seat by Joaquin, and brought to the U.S. against his will. The only people on the plane were the pilot, Joaquin and my client."

In an interview, Perez said Zambada was meeting someone for breakfast and that instead of that person showing up, Guzman Lopez and his aides appeared and assaulted him.

That caught Zambada and his small security detail off guard, and he was tied up, thrown in the back of a pickup truck and driven about 20 minutes away to an airport, where he was put on the plane with Guzmán López, Perez said.

“He was the one who set up the meeting” to get Zambada to come out, Perez said of Guzman Lopez. He said the son of El Chapo then personally tied his father’s longtime partner to the chair of the aircraft so he couldn’t escape.

 

 

[billfromlaketravis 11,360]

Filthy business. Mayo gave up Chapo to get his son out of a pinch in Chicago, and Chapo’s son returns the favor.

I’ll give Chapo’s son for exercising patience to draw out El Mayo. I’m sure he wanted revenge the second his dad got sent to ADX Florence.

[Braff Zacklin 13,418]

That's awesome. Hope all of them die in prison.

[HenryJames 65,890]

NYT

Spoiler

El Chapo’s Son Abducted Fellow Cartel Leader to the U.S., Officials Now Say

U.S. officials say Joaquín Guzmán López, a son of El Chapo, forced Ismael Zambada García onto a plane bound for the United States, in a case that landed the two Sinaloa cartel leaders in custody last week.

July 29, 2024Updated 8:51 p.m. ET

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador of Mexico at a news conference following the arrest of Ismael Zambada García. Mr. Zambada García’s lawyer has said his client was kidnapped by Joaquín Guzmán López, El Chapo’s son.Alfredo Estrella/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

In the hours after the arrest of Ismael Zambada García, the last remaining godfather of Mexico’s Sinaloa drug cartel, U.S. officials gave their early understanding of the mystery at the center of it all: How did a fugitive who had evaded capture for decades end up being delivered straight into their hands?

Mr. Zambada García, the officials said, had been lured by a son of his former partner in crime, the notorious drug lord known as El Chapo, onto a private plane that flew him without his permission over the border.

But after a fuller vetting of the account of El Chapo’s son, Joaquín Guzmán López, with people who had knowledge of it, American officials have since come away with a different and more dramatic version of what took place in Mexico.

Mr. Zambada García, one of his country’s most wanted men, had come down from a hide-out in the mountains last week and was ambushed in the Mexican city of Culiacán at what he thought would be a friendly meeting with Mr. Guzmán López, according to three federal law enforcement officials who spoke anonymously to discuss sensitive details of the case. Mr. Guzmán López then forcibly flew Mr. Zambada García in a Beechcraft King Air turboprop across the border, where he was apprehended by U.S. federal agents, the officials said.

That version of events echoed one that was recently offered by Mr. Zambada García’s lawyer, who told The New York Times and other news outlets that his client had not been tricked into boarding the plane, but in fact had been abducted. Mr. Guzmán López, the lawyer said, waylaid Mr. Zambada García with a group of henchmen who handcuffed him, stuck a bag over his head and muscled him into a car and then on to the plane, where he remained bound throughout the flight.

“My client neither surrendered nor negotiated any terms with the U.S. government,” the lawyer, Frank Perez, said in a statement released to reporters. “Joaquín Guzmán López forcibly kidnapped my client.”

Joaquín Guzmán López in a photo provided by the State Department.U.S. Department of State, via Shutterstock

It was the latest twist in a murky and evolving narrative, shaped by various parties with interests in its outcome — U.S. and Mexican officials, cartel sources and lawyers for the kingpins. As new versions of the capture continue to surface, the only thing that is clear is that no one has publicly told the whole story yet.

Even now, the precise events last Thursday that ended with both Mr. Zambada García and Mr. Guzmán López in U.S. custody at a regional airport near El Paso, Texas, still remain uncertain. More details about what happened that day could be revealed on Wednesday, when Mr. Zambada García heads to court in El Paso.

The three law enforcement officials told The Times that the American government had not been involved in, and had no real-time knowledge of, the specific methods used to get Mr. Zambada García to the United States. But the U.S. government got more clarity into what unfolded on the ground in Mexico last week, they said, after a fuller debriefing of sources with knowledge of what had transpired.

According to one of the officials, the ambush in Culiacán turned violent as bodyguards loyal to Mr. Guzmán López clashed with those loyal to Mr. Zambada García. 

Legal experts say that even if Mr. Zambada García arrived in the United States under physical duress, it may have no effect on the criminal charges he is facing. There is longstanding legal precedent allowing prosecutors to pursue cases against defendants who were brought to the United States against their will, the experts said.

“U.S. law is quite clear that even kidnappings that violate extradition treaties don’t provide a basis for relief for the defendant,” said Daniel Richman, a former federal prosecutor and professor at Columbia Law School.

But Mr. Zambada García’s lawyer may eventually seek to make hay out of the kidnapping accusations, which could complicate efforts by U.S. law enforcement to prosecute him — if not as a matter of law, then perhaps as a matter of diplomacy.

Relations between U.S. law enforcement officers and Mexican officials have been strained since 2020, when American federal agents arrested Salvador Cienfuegos, the former Mexican defense minister, in Los Angeles — only to release him and drop the charges after Mexico’s government expressed outrage at having been kept in the dark about the move. The Mexican government has said it had no involvement in the arrests of the two top cartel bosses in El Paso and was informed of the detentions only after they had occurred.

“The issue is about more diplomatic niceties and public relations than whether a U.S. court can hear this prosecution,” Mr. Richman said.

Mexico’s security minister, Rosa Icela Rodríguez, said on Monday that the authorities had opened their own investigation into the events in Mexico and “the crimes that may have occurred.”

Federal court in El Paso, Texas, where Mr. Zambada García appeared in an initial hearing on Friday.Jose Luis Gonzalez/Reuters

A person close to Mr. Guzmán López, along with two current and two former U.S. officials who were not authorized to speak publicly about the case, say that no formal deal had been reached with him before his surrender.

But his role in the capture of Mr. Zambada García didn’t come out of nowhere — it was the culmination of a back channel that a small team of F.B.I. agents had maintained with him and some of his brothers for years, the current and former officials said.

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador of Mexico confirmed the existence of that channel at his daily news conference on Monday, saying that U.S. officials had been quietly in touch with Mr. Guzmán López for some time. The Mexican security minister said U.S. officials had been informed on multiple occasions that Mr. Guzmán López was considering turning himself in to the American authorities.

The discussions with the sons, which took place directly and through intermediaries, began nearly five years ago, not long after El Chapo — whose real name is Joaquín Guzmán Loera — was convicted on drug-conspiracy charges at a trial in Brooklyn and sentenced to life in prison, said three of the people familiar with the conversations.

The goal of the talks had always been to persuade Mr. Guzmán Loera’s sons, known collectively as the Chapitos, to spare themselves their father’s fate and surrender in the United States, where they are all facing federal charges. The talks became more intense and frequent, the people familiar with them said, after one son, Ovidio Guzmán López, was extradited from Mexico last fall to stand trial in Chicago.

That development spawned a conversation with U.S. officials about Joaquín turning himself in and bringing along Mr. Zambada García — either willingly or not, according to one of the current and one of the former officials.

Such a move would have two direct benefits for the Guzmán brothers: It would increase the possibility that Joaquín and Ovidio could get favorable terms in any future plea deals with U.S. prosecutors and it would assist the two brothers who remain in Mexico by removing one of their chief rivals in the Sinaloa cartel, Mr. Zambada García.

Joaquín Guzmán Loera, known as El Chapo, in Mexico City following his capture in 2016. U.S. government officials have been in touch with El Chapo’s sons for years.Alfredo Estrella/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

The conversations with Joaquín heated up this month, two of the people familiar with them said, as he began to tell his American interlocutors that he was close to persuading Mr. Zambada García to meet with him without his typical security detail in tow.

It is not unheard-of for U.S. law enforcement to maintain under-the-radar contacts with even the most violent Mexican traffickers.

Indeed, for several years, some of the same American officials who were talking with El Chapo’s sons were also in communication with Mr. Zambada García, seeking to negotiate his own potential surrender, according to one of the officials.

On Thursday morning, when the trip was apparently confirmed, Mr. Guzmán López’s interlocutors notified a small group of U.S. law enforcement officials who had a stake in prosecuting Mr. Zambada García, the official said.

American federal agents were then apprised, the official said, as the meeting took place and the plane took off, headed toward El Paso with Mr. Zambada García aboard. The aircraft was quietly waved into U.S. airspace with the assistance of Customs and Border Protection.

The agents were waiting for it at Dona Ana County International Jetport, a smallairport outside El Paso.

Emiliano Rodríguez Mega contributed reporting from Mexico City.

Alan Feuer covers extremism and political violence for The Times, focusing on the criminal cases involving the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol and against former President Donald J. Trump.  More about Alan Feuer

Natalie Kitroeff is the Mexico City bureau chief for The Times, leading coverage of Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. More about Natalie Kitroeff

A version of this article appears in print on  , Section A, Page 6 of the New York edition with the headline: Officials Say Drug Lord Was Turned In After Ambush by a Former Ally. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

See more on: Andrés Manuel López Obrador

 

[Parliament 14,135]

The next season of Narco's is gonna be LIT!

Legal experts say that even if Mr. Zambada García arrived in the United States under physical duress, it may have no effect on the criminal charges he is facing. There is longstanding legal precedent allowing prosecutors to pursue cases against defendants who were brought to the United States against their will, the experts said.

“U.S. law is quite clear that even kidnappings that violate extradition treaties don’t provide a basis for relief for the defendant,” said Daniel Richman, a former federal prosecutor and professor at Columbia Law School.

Pretty sure that precedent was set by the daring abduction of a Hong Kong money launderer and his return to Gotham City.

Edited July 30 by Parliament

[crash_davis 23,084]

https://www.borderreport.com/news/business-leader-gunned-down-after-complaining-about-cartels-extortion-on-tv/

Business leader gunned down after complaining about cartels, extortion on TV

On Monday, the head of the business chambers’ federation in Tamaulipas state, across the border from Texas, gave television interviews complaining about drug cartel extortion in the state. Hours later on Tuesday, Julio Almanza was shot to death outside his offices in the city of Matamoros, across from Brownsville, Texas.

“We are hostages to extortion demands, we are hostages of criminal groups,” Almanza said in one of his last interviews. “Charging extortion payments has practically become the national sport in Tamaulipas.”

The problem came to a head when the Femsa corporation, which operates Oxxo, Mexico’s largest chain of convenience stores, announced late last week that it was closing all of its 191 stores and seven gas stations in another border city, Nuevo Laredo, because of gang problems.

The company said it had long had to deal with cartel demands that its gas stations buy their fuel from certain distributors. But the straw that broke the camel’s back came in recent weeks when gang members abducted two store employees, demanding they act as lookouts or provide information to the gang.

Since convenience stores are used by most people in Mexico, the gangs see them as good points to keep tabs on the movements of police, soldiers and rivals.

“We had incidents in stores that consisted of them (gangs) demanding we give them certain information, and they even abducted two colleagues to enforce this demand,” Roberto Campa, Femsa’s director of corporate affairs, told local media.

In a statement Monday, Femsa said its stores in Nuevo Laredo remain closed this week “due to acts of violence that put our colleagues’ safety at risk.”

[Dbeasy 14,969]

I just don’t know how this problem gets solved. They just kill anyone who tries to solve it. This is a situation where I wonder whether a Democracy with moral standards and laws can deal with this sort of stuff (not referring to Mexico). It’s almost like a Dictator needs to take paramilitary and special forces and just wipe them all out. Otherwise they will continue to rule the country. 

[crash_davis 23,084]

7 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I just don’t know how this problem gets solved. They just kill anyone who tries to solve it. This is a situation where I wonder whether a Democracy with moral standards and laws can deal with this sort of stuff (not referring to Mexico). It’s almost like a Dictator needs to take paramilitary and special forces and just wipe them all out. Otherwise they will continue to rule the country. 

This similar to Africa. Corrupt, mass killing shitheads ruin it for everyone living there.

Not sure if these situations ever get resolved.

[MissingInAction 24,818]

It's by design. Disrupt the countries you need shit from.

Makes them easy pickings.

That plus if they're fighting each other they're not fighting you.

Sound familiar?

Edited August 1 by MissingInAction

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

Cartels/Gangs/Mafia's thrive on chaos. It gives them cover. The old saying Plata o Plomo (Silver or lead) rings true in a lot of places.

@Dbeasy, this was tried in El Salvador. Dropped the crime rate tremendously, but lots of external groups are pissed. 13 year olds get locked up without trial due to a shitty uncle/cousin or being in the wrong place.

 

 

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

It's by design. Disrupt the countries you need shit from.

Makes them easy pickings.

That plus if they're fighting each other they're not fighting you.

Sound familiar?

Like avocados?

Avocados are wildly important in the U.S., and most are imported from Mexico. This week, the U.S. briefly banned Mexican avocados after a U.S. inspector in the state of Michoacan reported receiving threats. But avocados and limes have long been used by drug cartels to help finance their violent business plans. Emily Green reports for VICE News from Mexico and joins us from Mexico City. Thanks so much for being with us.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/19/1081948884/mexican-drug-cartels-are-getting-into-the-avocado-and-lime-business

[MissingInAction 24,818]

That and a ridiculously cheap labor force, which all empires depend on.

[BabaYaga 15,212]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

It’s almost like a Dictator needs to take paramilitary and special forces and just wipe them all out. Otherwise they will continue to rule the country. 

Columbia tried that with Escobar.  It turned into open warfare.  Mass bombings.  Chaos.  It was a war-zone.  That also assumes a captive military that has not been infiltrated/corrupted.  

[BabaYaga 15,212]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Business leader gunned down after complaining about cartels, extortion on TV

 

Last election cycle - 37 officials at multiple levels murdered.  Good times.

[Macklemore 2,870]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Cartels/Gangs/Mafia's thrive on chaos. It gives them cover. The old saying Plata o Plomo (Silver or lead) rings true in a lot of places.

@Dbeasy, this was tried in El Salvador. Dropped the crime rate tremendously, but lots of external groups are pissed. 13 year olds get locked up without trial due to a shitty uncle/cousin or being in the wrong place.

 

 

Would love to refute this post here but it would be CR. Let me just say the guy leading El Salvador has the highest approval rating of any leader in the world and El Salvadorans are grateful for his leadership in freeing their country from the cartels. Night and day difference in crime levels. His plan works and should be the model that Mexico follows.  The only groups that have issues with him are NGOs and people not living in El Salvador.

Edited August 1 by Macklemore

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

Just now, Macklemore said:

Would love to refute this post here but it would be CR. Let me just say the guy leading El Salvador has the highest approval rating of any leader in the world and El Salvadorans are grateful for his leadership in freeing their country from the cartels. Night and day difference in crime levels. His plan works and should be the model that Mexico follows.  

I did not discount his plan. And the voices against it come mainly from the outside. No matter what El Salvador does, with their history someone is going to bitch.

But to continue the discussion and be devils advocate. Does that 13 year old now spend his life in jail? There is no "rehabilitation" programs large enough for the amount arrested.

I have very good Salvadoran friends there. A few years ago their solution was like the early 1980's. And these are not the Elite. These are small business/land owners who were tired of the extortion and murders.

And not sure how it would be CR.

[Macklemore 2,870]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I did not discount his plan. And the voices against it come mainly from the outside. No matter what El Salvador does, with their history someone is going to bitch.

But to continue the discussion and be devils advocate. Does that 13 year old now spend his life in jail? There is no "rehabilitation" programs large enough for the amount arrested.

I have very good Salvadoran friends there. A few years ago their solution was like the early 1980's. And these are not the Elite. These are small business/land owners who were tired of the extortion and murders.

And not sure how it would be CR.

Thanks for your perspective. He has implemented a rehabilitation program for those who are imprisoned but were not charged with violent crimes who are used in kind of Depression era WPA capacity. My understanding is if we start talking about individual politicians and policies that would be CR.

[immamac 42,518]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I did not discount his plan. And the voices against it come mainly from the outside. No matter what El Salvador does, with their history someone is going to bitch.

But to continue the discussion and be devils advocate. Does that 13 year old now spend his life in jail? There is no "rehabilitation" programs large enough for the amount arrested.

I have very good Salvadoran friends there. A few years ago their solution was like the early 1980's. And these are not the Elite. These are small business/land owners who were tired of the extortion and murders.

And not sure how it would be CR.

The reason this happens isn't because of the foot soldiers it because of the head honchos. 

Right now there is still a predominantly cash driven economy in the areas where this is worst. They can't exactly starve out the cash to pay the thugs from doing the bidding of the head honchos. There are also too many feudal lord types to just go after them. 

The only realistic way to do this is too costly from both an administrative and a shear force perspective. There aren't severe enough penalties for participation and trying to enforce them like judge dredd would just result in all out "war".

They can't really starve out their source of funds anymore as a tactic because the cartels have branched so much further out than just drugs to get entrenched. Think American Gangster, but times 50 for every little city or town. 

[Dbeasy 14,969]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Columbia tried that with Escobar.  It turned into open warfare.  Mass bombings.  Chaos.  It was a war-zone.  That also assumes a captive military that has not been infiltrated/corrupted.  

You reminded me of a story I had completely forgotten about. In the 1990’s, I was a product line director for a company that provided the pcs/cellular network infrastructure for the whole country of Colombia, all 3 cellular carriers. 

One day I was sitting in my cushy Dallas office and we got a phone call from one of my installation crews in Colombia. With gunfire in the background they explained to us that the Colombian government was in a gunfight with one of the cartels at the base of a cell tower under construction. 

One of our guys was up there installing cable and was stuck. I think he’d already been up there something like 15 hours. They asked us what to do. I was not particularly helpful, but eventually the battle died down and the guy finally was able to climb down the tower. 

That was an insane time period. Eventually they wouldn’t even let me or other Americans in the company go into Colombia for awhile because it was so dangerous. 

[Chewbacca 7,730]

On 7/27/2024 at 4:18 PM, Parliament said:

Nice

One of the world's most powerful drug lords, Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada, leader of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, has been arrested by US federal agents in El Paso, Texas.
Zambada, 76, founded the criminal organisation with Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, who is currently jailed in the US.
Arrested with Zambada on Thursday was Guzman's son, Joaquin Guzman Lopez, said the US justice department.
In February, Zambada was charged by US prosecutors with a conspiracy to make and distribute fentanyl, a drug more powerful than heroin that has been blamed for the US opioid crisis.
Citing Mexican and US officials, the Wall Street Journal reports that Zambada was tricked into boarding the plane by a high-ranking Sinaloa member following a months-long operation by Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI.
Believing that he was going to inspect clandestine airstrips in southern Mexico, Zambada was instead flown to a private airfield outside El Paso, Texas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng4g31x1wo

And they aren't going to be able to roll up to the jail and break them out the last time El Chapo's kid was in custody.  He'll be reunited with pops in ADX Florence soon enough.

[Helobious 9,481]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Would love to refute this post here but it would be CR. Let me just say the guy leading El Salvador has the highest approval rating of any leader in the world and El Salvadorans are grateful for his leadership in freeing their country from the cartels. Night and day difference in crime levels. His plan works and should be the model that Mexico follows.  The only groups that have issues with him are NGOs and people not living in El Salvador.

He’s specifically said his plan would not work in Mexico. If the larger cartels needed control of El Salvador to operate, they would have it. But they don’t. 

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

56 minutes ago, immamac said:

The reason this happens isn't because of the foot soldiers it because of the head honchos. 

Right now there is still a predominantly cash driven economy in the areas where this is worst. They can't exactly starve out the cash to pay the thugs from doing the bidding of the head honchos. There are also too many feudal lord types to just go after them. 

The only realistic way to do this is too costly from both an administrative and a shear force perspective. There aren't severe enough penalties for participation and trying to enforce them like judge dredd would just result in all out "war".

They can't really starve out their source of funds anymore as a tactic because the cartels have branched so much further out than just drugs to get entrenched. Think American Gangster, but times 50 for every little city or town. 

You mean downtown San Salvador that lives on remssions from the US or gang extortion? One feeds the other BTW.

I grew up there and it was only since COVID that I did not go back twice a year. Well I missed a few when in the sandbox. I know El Sal quite well across society. I do not hang out at tourist spots. I have studied it and presented a few papers/projects on the subject. Happy to discuss anti-gang/cartels on a global level in a different thread if anyone wants one.

You are right and wrong. But back to rehabilitation, there is no way to get the Maras/cartel foot soldiers back into society being discussed. Other countries are talking more draconian measures. An abandoned Island in Honduras, dilapidated cruise ships in Ecuador. Want to end this? Act like the Taliban. Latin America will not do that. The culture today, the power within existing structures of the gangs/maras/cartels, and of course, if they did then their past will be brought up.

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Thanks for your perspective. He has implemented a rehabilitation program for those who are imprisoned but were not charged with violent crimes who are used in kind of Depression era WPA capacity. My understanding is if we start talking about individual politicians and policies that would be CR.

There is very little in rehabilitation. I am friends with ex-prosecutors and police officers. They laugh at the concept of rehabilitation and understand this is going to be a ticking time bomb. One of the largest programs was shut down since the person leading the rehabilitation was in cahoots with the Maras.

Thread is on Mexico. I won't derail anymore.

[immamac 42,518]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

You mean downtown San Salvador that lives on remssions from the US or gang extortion? One feeds the other BTW.

I grew up there and it was only since COVID that I did not go back twice a year. Well I missed a few when in the sandbox. I know El Sal quite well across society. I do not hang out at tourist spots. I have studied it and presented a few papers/projects on the subject. Happy to discuss anti-gang/cartels on a global level in a different thread if anyone wants one.

You are right and wrong. But back to rehabilitation, there is no way to get the Maras/cartel foot soldiers back into society being discussed. Other countries are talking more draconian measures. An abandoned Island in Honduras, dilapidated cruise ships in Ecuador. Want to end this? Act like the Taliban. Latin America will not do that. The culture today, the power within existing structures of the gangs/maras/cartels, and of course, if they did then their past will be brought up.

There is very little in rehabilitation. I am friends with ex-prosecutors and police officers. They laugh at the concept of rehabilitation and understand this is going to be a ticking time bomb. One of the largest programs was shut down since the person leading the rehabilitation was in cahoots with the Maras.

Thread is on Mexico. I won't derail anymore.

I was talking about Mexico not El Salvador. 

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

He’s specifically said his plan would not work in Mexico. If the larger cartels needed control of El Salvador to operate, they would have it. But they don’t. 

To a certain extent they do have control. Same in any MS-13, 18 territories in Central America. The approach is a bit different.

[InkaUtexas 25,517]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

I was talking about Mexico not El Salvador. 

LOL, my initial response was about President Bukele so that threw me off. Sorry Overlord.

 

[futureman 22,415]

On 7/28/2024 at 3:05 PM, field said:

criminal defense lawyer Frank Perez of Dallas told USA TODAY that his client, Zambada,

surely not this guy, right?

[davidg 4,028]

surely not this guy, right?

Needs an inflatable Statue of Liberty on the roof.

[MinerProphet 71]

My question is...if the FBI has direct contact and frequently talks to Chapitos, Mayo, all the top of the pyramid type guys, then they clearly know how to contact them, what their likely whereabouts are, who they interact with, etc. and why can't they just treat them like they do the Hamas or terrorists? With Mexico's approval or their "wink wink" disapproval-but-approval, You know, drone bomb their facilities, sneak a bomb in Mayo's ranch and then months later detonate it, etc.? 

[mycox 582]

The reason El Salvador's plan is working is because their president is rich and can't be bought off. No way that happens in Mexico.