Bitcoin and other crypto-The CR thread

[Brisketexan 105161]

What I don't get is people are doing all of these (billions? trillions?) of math computations but not solving a new problem? They are being given a complex math problem, computing, returning an answer and then the protocol says, "Yes, you have succesfully given me the correct answer. You are valid."
This seems like a terrible waste of computers. We aren't solving happiness, homelessness or world hunger?

You don’t understand! BLOCKCHAIN FIAT MONEY THE ECONOMIC CYCLE LIKE THE GOLD STANDARD UNCOUPLED FROM ALL GOVERNMENT!

Lots of people will make money from crypto. GOBS of money. Just like emus and beanie babies and shit, but definitely fancier and more sophisticated and more global. But when it all ends, the people sitting on stacks of crypto will be just like the people sitting on a million dollar herd of 50 emus that are now worth $50k. Make all the money you can off of crypto…just don’t be left holding a bunch when the music stops.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

16 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Regale us with more stories of your piercing insight, oh Great Crypto Bro! We have so much to learn from you.

 

I’m assuming you’re implying that ownership of a large amount of coins by a small amount of people gives those holders great control over bitcoin. Unfortunately young padawan you’re wrong again. If you’re interested in looking deeper into it google the blocksize war, but in 2017 a consortium of the largest exchanges and businesses in crypto tried to get changes made to the bitcoin protocol. They were unsuccessful. Me owning more bitcoin than you gives me no more say over the network or its monetary policy. 
 

I can see why you’d think the opposite is true. That’s essentially our current financial system. The unelected people and entities with massive wealth essentially control our monetary policy. 
 

Also, bitcoin is becoming more well dispersed over time. Has been doing so since its inception. 
 

16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

We’ve been through multiple Strauss Howe “turnings.” The USD survived. The GBP survived. And yeah, gold survived….because it’s physical. So did land. Every one of those things has a huge advantage over your collection of 1s and 0s.

But we get it. To make crypto have any chance, you’re shorting the USD, and the only way to succeed in that is to short the United States as an entity. Which is consistent with your activities and approaches to most every other topic.

It’s not that you think you’re clever or smarter than the rest of us (you’re not). It’s that you really don’t think that people of even average intellect can see right through this shit. That’s a helluva blind spot.

You’re right that past reserve currencies have survived. The USD will as well. It will just be massively devalued. 
 

I would like nothing more than the USD to remain the reserve currency for decades more. I hate the thought that my kids are going to come up during a lot of potential upheaval, but to assume that the dollar will remain on top indefinitely goes against historical precedent and mathematical reality. So I try to prepare and protect my family. 
 

What happens next then if you think that USD is likely to be replaced?
 

China just rolled out their central bank digital currency (CBDC). It’s the surveillance state dream. All transactions tied to ID’d wallets. Transactions censorable, can be tied to your social credit score if wanted. Easily seized. They will use their financial influence to try to spread it around the globe as much as possible. 
 

What will the other options be? Perhaps an international currency issued by the IMF, SDRs. I doubt in these nationalist times that will be politically feasible. 
 

So that leaves bitcoin. Believe it or not no country is better suited to benefit from bitcoin’s ascendancy. This is a passage from a longer piece I linked in the other thread a while back. 
 

“In the absence of major entitlement reform, well-intentioned efforts to make Treasury bonds great again are likely doomed. Instead of restricting bitcoin in a desperate attempt to forestall the inevitable, federal policymakers would do well to embrace the role of bitcoin as a geopolitically neutral reserve asset; work to ensure that the United States continues to lead the world in accumulating bitcoin-based wealth, jobs, and innovations; and ensure that Americans can continue to use bitcoin to protect themselves against government-driven inflation.“

A very thorough piece is anyone is interested, written by an Austin resident. 
 

https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/bitcoin-and-the-us-fiscal-reckoning
 

I’m looking to preserve America’s position, not short it. 
 

 

[Captainant 27682]

24 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

What I don't get is people are doing all of these (billions? trillions?) of math computations but not solving a new problem? They are being given a complex math problem, computing, returning an answer and then the protocol says, "Yes, you have succesfully given me the correct answer. You are valid."

This seems like a terrible waste of computers. We aren't solving happiness, homelessness or world hunger?

It's an incredible waste of computing power. Each time a hash is ran, they're trying to solve f(x) = y, where you know x and y. In this case, f() is SHA256 for BTC, or scrypt for ETH, and there's a whole shitload more math to discuss if you want to unpack the complexity and probability space of that problem. But for context: SHA256 produces a 256bit output, which is two to the 256th power.

Zero to 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639935.

And in hashing, you're running trillions and trillions of permutations of f(x) = y and throwing away anything that isn't the solution. The BTC network hash rate is around 175 million terrahashes per second. A block takes about 10 minutes to mine, by design. So 600 seconds of 175,000,000,000,000,000,000 wasted computations per second.

Each BTC transaction is the product of 105,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 wasted computational cycles. At current hash rates. Which again by design, will increase asymptomatically with time. 

It's lunacy and doesn't scale well or use resources well.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Captainant

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Hey man, I left math a long time a go at Linear Algebra...Bachelor Of Arts in the College Of Natural Sciences baby!

[BrickHorn 18249]

59 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

I’m assuming you’re implying that ownership of a large amount of coins by a small amount of people gives those holders great control over bitcoin.

You assume incorrectly, possibly because you only read the headline. That article also discusses a more problematic finding: that 50% of the hash rate is controlled by a tiny fraction of miners (0.1%, or about 50 miners). Which means that a group of 0.1% of the largest, most sophisticated miners could rewrite the BTC blockchain in any way they see fit. As mining becomes more expensive, that power will only further accumulate into a smaller and smaller group.

Edited February 6, 2022 by BrickHorn

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

22 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You assume incorrectly, possibly because you only read the headline. That article also discusses a more problematic finding: that 50% of the hash rate is controlled by a tiny fraction of miners (0.1%, or about 50 miners). Which means that a group of 0.1% of the largest, most sophisticated miners could rewrite the BTC blockchain in any way they see fit. As mining becomes more expensive, that power will only further accumulate into a smaller and smaller group.

Let’s say that those numbers are correct although info about miners is notoriously difficult to verify. Why would members of an industry decide to collude and destroy their business? Working together and re-organizing the blockchain would effectively wreck bitcoin’s reputation and the price would crater. No rational actors would do that. Nonsensical. 

[Brisketexan 105161]

Let’s say that those numbers are correct although info about miners is notoriously difficult to verify. Why would members of an industry decide to collude and destroy their business? Working together and re-organizing the blockchain would effectively wreck bitcoin’s reputation and the price would crater. No rational actors would do that. Nonsensical. 

Man….would people with SOME power take measures to obtain ALL the power, in the process blindly killing the goose that laid their golden egg? Nah. That would NEVER happen….except for all the times it has happened as predictably as the next sunrise.

You don’t trust governments….so you put your faith in human nature and a belief that humans will be rational actors. Excellent plan, I fail to see a single flaw.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Man….would people with SOME power take measures to obtain ALL the power, in the process blindly killing the goose that laid their golden egg? Nah. That would NEVER happen….except for all the times it has happened as predictably as the next sunrise.

You don’t trust governments….so you put your faith in human nature and a belief that humans will be rational actors. Excellent plan, I fail to see a single flaw.

So let's say there are really 50 miners that control half the hash rate and Brisket BTC mining LLC is the largest controlling 10% of the hash rate. Brisket BTC mining concocts a brilliant plan to hijack and reorganize the chain. How difficult would it be to convince 49 other entities that have invested large amounts of capital to sign on and effectively destroy their business? It would be almost impossible.

A couple key points

1) Bitcoin mining companies are supporters of BTC. They're long the asset class.

2) It would take a lot coordination to decide how to re-org the chain so that all 50 miners benefit from a great exit scam.

Just not going to happen.

This attack vector has been thought through a lot. The most likely entity to attempt this would be a state. To amass the hardware and infrastructure to control that much hash rate unnoticed would be extremely difficult. Could one state do it through coercion of miners in their jurisdiction? Perhaps. That was the biggest concern with mining being centralized in China. Thankfully China has made the mistake of banning Bitcoin mining. They've given us a huge opportunity by being so aggressive towards Bitcoin.

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You don’t understand! BLOCKCHAIN FIAT MONEY THE ECONOMIC CYCLE LIKE THE GOLD STANDARD UNCOUPLED FROM ALL GOVERNMENT!

Lots of people will make money from crypto. GOBS of money. Just like emus and beanie babies and shit, but definitely fancier and more sophisticated and more global. But when it all ends, the people sitting on stacks of crypto will be just like the people sitting on a million dollar herd of 50 emus that are now worth $50k. Make all the money you can off of crypto…just don’t be left holding a bunch when the music stops.

so you think decentralized digital currency is going to end?  Like the world will just shrug and collectively say "man, what a bad idea.  almost as bad as laser discs".  or just that returns above stock market % will disappear?  any time frame for the music stopping?  are we talking by Christmas or decade or so like the next time the Dallas Cowboys win a playoff game?  No issues with line of thought.  I am not an evangelist for crypto, but do think it will continue be a financial factor going forward.  i get the whole what goes up must come down and crazy gains are unsustainable, but there is difference in crypto stabilizing vs disappearing. 

probably most will fail or fail to evolve.  don't have to be Nostradamus to see that, but man, some on this thread literally can't wait for it to happen so they can dunk on everyone who leaned pro crypto.  i see BTC and others like ETH hanging around.  The 1000s of shitcoins banging around out there, probably not; but that's already been happening for quite some time as dozens fail every day.   

But can I interest you in digital emus, sir?  https://opensea.io/collection/wild-emus  $12, very good price to enter  

 

[Brisketexan 105161]

so you think decentralized digital currency is going to end?  Like the world will just shrug and collectively say "man, what a bad idea.  almost as bad as laser discs".  or just that returns above stock market % will disappear?  any time frame for the music stopping?  are we talking by Christmas or decade or so like the next time the Dallas Cowboys win a playoff game?  No issues with line of thought.  I am not an evangelist for crypto, but do think it will continue be a financial factor going forward.  i get the whole what goes up must come down and crazy gains are unsustainable, but there is difference in crypto stabilizing vs disappearing. 
probably most will fail or fail to evolve.  don't have to be Nostradamus to see that, but man, some on this thread literally can't wait for it to happen so they can dunk on everyone who leaned pro crypto.  i see BTC and others like ETH hanging around.  The 1000s of shitcoins banging around out there, probably not; but that's already been happening for quite some time as dozens fail every day.   
But can I interest you in digital emus, sir?  https://opensea.io/collection/wild-emus  $12, very good price to enter  
 

Naaah, crypto will hang around. Just like emus (real or digital). Emus still have value. You can still make money off of them. I think their meat is quite tasty, personally. Eventually, there will be people who invest in crypto who make some money off of it for what it is, at a modest rate of return, once the hype crashes back down to earth.

The parallel is in the fervent evangelism for the investment sold with tales of riches made. And as long as you get out at the right time, that’s true - people are getting rich from crypto, and will continue to do so for a good while. Until they don’t. And the people who bought in at the high prices will be hosed. As always.

[BrickHorn 18249]

Crypto devotees: Bitcoin solves all problems because it doesn’t require trust!

Me: The integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain depends entirely on the whim of a select few self-interested whales.

Crypto devotees: We just have to trust them.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by BrickHorn

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

3 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Crypto devotees: Bitcoin solves all problems because it doesn’t require trust!

Me: The integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain depends entirely on the whim of a select few self-interested whales.

Crypto devotees: We just have to trust them.

 

 

In regards to bitcoin and trust, trustless means you don't have to trust a third party (any other bank, person, or other intermediary) when holding or transacting with bitcoin. If you leave your coins on an exchange for instance you are introducing a third party security hole. It has nothing to do with the mining and securing of the network.

 

Anyway, the whims of 50 or so (a few?) large miners, that aren't individuals but corporate entities. 

The system is built so that the player's incentives are aligned to secure the network and they profit financially from it. You see that as a weakness or an attack vector for bitcoin. I don't. We're past that. 

Now that China is out of it, mining is no longer a legitimate concern. There are other better ways to attack bitcoin.

You're bringing up things that people debated 4-5 years ago.

[gmr548 16584]

5 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

the next time the Dallas Cowboys win a playoff game? 

 

Bitcoin will rise and fall as the world's reserve currency by the time this happens.

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

5 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

so you think decentralized digital currency is going to end? 

Digital currency will not end. The digital dollar. The digital yuan. Digitalization was always the next step once networks weeks were created. Decentralized digital currency will not end, but it will never be the dominant store of value because decentralization is inherently unstable. 
 

As compared to the digital dollar, what value does decentralization add to currency? How does removing centralized control benefit the user? Now what are the consequences of decentralization?

 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Digital currency will not end. The digital dollar. The digital yuan. Digitalization was always the next step once networks weeks were created. Decentralized digital currency will not end, but it will never be the dominant store of value because decentralization is inherently unstable. 
 

As compared to the digital dollar, what value does decentralization add to currency? How does removing centralized control benefit the user? Now what are the consequences of decentralization?

 

As compared to a digital dollar, decentralization benefits the user by decreasing their exposure to surveillance, confiscation, and censoring of transactions. Other than that, not much. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Bitcoin seems a useful tool to avoid sanctions and taxes, and I don't mean for this to sound purely negative. But what happens when the finite supply of Bitcoin that pays miners runs out out and the coin has not seen widespread stable acceptance?

[Captainant 27682]

58 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Bitcoin seems a useful tool to avoid sanctions and taxes, and I don't mean for this to sound purely negative. But what happens when the finite supply of Bitcoin that pays miners runs out out and the coin has not seen widespread stable acceptance?

transaction fees would need to increase, otherwise miners would have no incentive. This is one of several scalability concerns wrt/ BTC (and crypto more generally)

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

57 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Bitcoin seems a useful tool to avoid sanctions and taxes, and I don't mean for this to sound purely negative. But what happens when the finite supply of Bitcoin that pays miners runs out out and the coin has not seen widespread stable acceptance?

This is a valid concern for bitcoin long term. The block rewards will be halved every 4 years until they reach almost zero in 2130. They’re currently at 6.25 BTC per block. 
 

The ideal way for the system to evolve would be for the fees on the base layer to increase over time to compensate for the decreasing block rewards and keep making it worthwhile for miners to secure the network. Currently I believe the split between block rewards and fees that go to miners each block is roughly 90/10. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

If this is decentralized, then who determines fee increases? Do miners have the power to increase their own disbursement? Are we talking about market exchanges charging fees? What if collection of fees exceeds mining?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have full days and no crypto.

[Captainant 27682]

1 hour ago, JohnnyRage said:

If this is decentralized, then who determines fee increases? Do miners have the power to increase their own disbursement? Are we talking about market exchanges charging fees? What if collection of fees exceeds mining?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have full days and no crypto.

You should really watch a technical explainer on how bitcoin/cryptocurrency/decentralized blockchains work. This 3blue1brown video is an excellent technical explainer that's 25 mins long or so, he touches on block rewards at 18 minutes and on transaction fees at around 23:20

Transaction fees exist because transaction throughput is scarce within cryptocurrencies - only one block is mined approximately every 10 minutes, and that block can hold only so many transactions. If you want a better chance of your transaction getting processed faster (or at all), you include a mining "bounty" for processing your transaction into a block and into the blockchain.

When a block is "mined" that really just means that they solved for f() within f(x) = y. By definition, whomever mines a new block also receives a reward of brand new bitcoin as a block reward PLUS whatever mining fees were included on that transaction.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Captainant

[RDCanecutter 26454]

We prefer to call them "convenience fees."

[JohnnyRage 1617]

 

[Captainant 27682]

Justice Dept. announces $3.6B crypto seizure, 2 arrests

TFW bitcoin is just as seizable as any other asset, despite rhetoric to the contrary.

Shit, the intrinsic traceability of the distributed ledger is what contributed to the investigation by police lol. In fact, it directly contributed to the largest ever financial seizure by DOJ.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Justice Dept. announces $3.6B crypto seizure, 2 arrests

TFW bitcoin is just as seizable as any other asset, despite rhetoric to the contrary.

Shit, the intrinsic traceability of the distributed ledger is what contributed to the investigation by police lol. In fact, it directly contributed to the largest ever financial seizure by DOJ.

Um, no.
They had their private keys on their computer. Like leaving out the combo to your safe. 
 

 

 

security was not their strong suit. Wife had an active tik tok

 

[Captainant 27682]

7 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Um, no.
They had their private keys on their computer. Like leaving out the combo to your safe. 
 

 

 

security was not their strong suit. Wife had an active tik tok

 

Yeah, that's my point. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency don't magically become hella secure yo just because it's on a blockchain and durable against MiTM attacks. It's still as seizable as cash and yet has far less utility and far more volatility. Plus it has the added bonus of having a globally distributed paper trail of any transfer or usage.

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

people claim getting 'hacked' everyday on twitter and it's almost 100% social engineering.  the laziness of people not willing to keep their seed phrase off their computer is astounding.  although if you get busted by the FBI i'm guessing they can find your seed phrases written down on paper in your house as well.

Ever worse, the file containing the keys was found in cloud storage.

Edited February 8, 2022 by gyroprotagonist
just saw additional info

[RDCanecutter 26454]

6 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

people claim getting 'hacked' everyday on twitter and it's almost 100% social engineering.  the laziness of people not willing to keep their seed phrase off their computer is astounding.  although if you get busted by the FBI i'm guessing they can find your seed phrases written down on paper in your house as well.

 

I'd be more worried about someone wanting my seed phrase who has a set of clippers next to one of my toes.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Yeah, that's my point. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency don't magically become hella secure yo just because it's on a blockchain and durable against MiTM attacks. It's still as seizable as cash and yet has far less utility and far more volatility. Plus it has the added bonus of having a globally distributed paper trail of any transfer or usage.

 

6 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I'd be more worried about someone wanting my seed phrase who has a set of clippers next to one of my toes.

It’s pretty easy to set up a multi signature wallet nowadays. Disperse the signing devices as far apart as you want. Makes these things much harder to pull off. 

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

5 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I'd be more worried about someone wanting my seed phrase who has a set of clippers next to one of my toes.

from what i have seen, it's easier to appeal to someone's greed.  Some will click on any link to gain a perceived advantage like early access to a new coin or nft.  dozens of people have lost high value nfts ($200K+) because they wanted to skirt the marketplace/royalty fees (~5%) and were duped into using fake trading sites by a fake prospective buyer.  Thieves will often hack a projects discord, take it over and then put malicious links out there.

But i have pondered that it is totally possible for someone get mugged  and thieves force them to use their phone to steal their crypto.  it really would not take that long especially if they already had a cex ap (Coinbase etc...) or a mobile wallet like metamask already installed.  Probably just a few fingerprint scans from getting access and then thieves pop their address in and hit send.  you really only need the seed phrase if you are installing your wallet on a new device for the first time.

[RDCanecutter 26454]

7 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

from what i have seen, it's easier to appeal to someone's greed. 

No doubt. If the machine side of things is 100% secure, you'll always have the human flapping around out there, occasionally making some phenomenally bad decisions.

(Of course I wouldn't get scammed, and you wouldn't get scammed. I'm talking about that other guy.)

I don't know enough to do it, but I wonder what the crypto-flavored versions of classic cons would be?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks

[Captainant 27682]

42 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

It’s pretty easy to set up a multi signature wallet nowadays. Disperse the signing devices as far apart as you want. Makes these things much harder to pull off. 

Yeah and if you bury your money in the woods it's more secure against seizure too. My point is that it's equally vulnerable to seizure as cash is

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Yeah and if you bury your money in the woods it's more secure against seizure too. My point is that it's equally vulnerable to seizure as cash is

I mean I guess if you have to go to 3-5 places to locate clues to unlock the cash. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

I’m surprised nobody here linked to this. A pretty big deal, if true. 
 

 

A rough translation here 

 

looks like they want to regulate iT tightly with limits on self custody (not good). Establishing as a alternative currency is big though. 
 

my tin foil hat theory is thus. Putin/Russia had previously come out against Bitcoin and mining.  China has banned Bitcoin because they think it will hurt global adoption of their CBDC. A week or so after Putin and Xi meet, Russia comes out with partial embrace of Bitcoin.
 

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is the one field of tech innovation that China has completely abandoned. They ceded the battlefield to the West. In this political climate, what better way to get people in the US to be more aggressively against Bitcoin than to have Russia signal that it’s a positive? That way you try to squash one big advantage your adversary has. Now the establishment Bitcoin columns will all be Russia Russia Russia. 
 

The stakes are getting higher. 

[RDCanecutter 26454]

Putin has been bulking up reserves to sanction-proof Russia, and now holds about 5 times as much in Euros, Renminbi, gold, and who knows what else as he does in $USD. It makes sense that he'd add Bitcoin etc to his hand. If one thing doesn't work, he can try another.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

8 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Putin has been bulking up reserves to sanction-proof Russia, and now holds about 5 times as much in Euros, Renminbi, gold, and who knows what else as he does in $USD. It makes sense that he'd add Bitcoin etc to his hand. If one thing doesn't work, he can try another.

Agreed but it goes directly counter to what I think his buddy Xi would like long term. 

[Bullneck 19184]

 

[Bullneck 19184]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:18 AM, Brisketexan said:

You don’t understand! BLOCKCHAIN FIAT MONEY THE ECONOMIC CYCLE LIKE THE GOLD STANDARD UNCOUPLED FROM ALL GOVERNMENT!

Lots of people will make money from crypto. GOBS of money. Just like emus and beanie babies and shit, but definitely fancier and more sophisticated and more global. But when it all ends, the people sitting on stacks of crypto will be just like the people sitting on a million dollar herd of 50 emus that are now worth $50k. Make all the money you can off of crypto…just don’t be left holding a bunch when the music stops.

 

[Bullneck 19184]

 

 

[Brisketexan 105161]

 

Perfect.

Watching the cascade of crypto ads yesterday had a massive “dot com boom” vibe….except dot coms actually had some clear independent utility and value.

All the crypto bros desperately want to convince us that it’s not a Ponzi scheme….AND they really really want more of us to hand our money over to crypto…but again, it’s TOTALLY not a ponzi.

[Bullneck 19184]

This is too easy.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

What a sad no coiner take. The actual stat is 10% of addresses. That includes exchanges which obviously consolidate many people’s coins.

[Neonmoon 38129]

Dammit, now I want to see funny ads about the US dollar, the Euro, Pound, and Yuan.

[Captainant 27682]

6 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

What a sad no coiner take. The actual stat is 10% of addresses. That includes exchanges which obviously consolidate many people’s coins.

Oh c'mon man, you of all people should know that if you don't hold the keys you don't own the coin. That's a fundamental principle of cryptocurrency. Code is law.

Fucks sake, every major theft of crypto has been via an exchange or marketplace holding coin on the behalf of their clients.

Edit: the fucking joke in all of this is that the main selling point of crypto is that "there's no centralized authority", and you're completely ignoring the reality that the crypto ecosystem is reliant on centralized authorities. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Captainant

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Oh c'mon man, you of all people should know that if you don't hold the keys you don't own the coin. That's a fundamental principle of cryptocurrency. Code is law.

Fucks sake, every major theft of crypto has been via an exchange or marketplace holding coin on the behalf of their clients.

Edit: the fucking joke in all of this is that the main selling point of crypto is that "there's no centralized authority", and you're completely ignoring the reality that the crypto ecosystem is reliant on centralized authorities. 

You are correct, not your keys not your coins. Every person that owns crypto should hold it themselves.  But with regards to the claim that there’s a small number of holders that need to dump a massive amount of coins, the claim made in the tweet is misleading. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

So do dissidents in Canada now go pull their money from banks? It doesn’t make sense for them to keep any more in their bank account than what they want frozen. Trudeau basically advertising for Bitcoin now. 
 

Could the same thing happen here? 

[woohorn 1131]

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:18 AM, Brisketexan said:

You don’t understand! BLOCKCHAIN FIAT MONEY THE ECONOMIC CYCLE LIKE THE GOLD STANDARD UNCOUPLED FROM ALL GOVERNMENT!

Lots of people will make money from crypto. GOBS of money. Just like emus and beanie babies and shit, but definitely fancier and more sophisticated and more global. But when it all ends, the people sitting on stacks of crypto will be just like the people sitting on a million dollar herd of 50 emus that are now worth $50k. Make all the money you can off of crypto…just don’t be left holding a bunch when the music stops.

 

when the shit hits the fan, the emu farmers can eat the emus, and the beanie baby collectors can burn their beanie babies to stay warm. But you can't even wipe your ass with bitcoins.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

3 hours ago, woohorn said:

 

Lol. There’s tons of advertising and propaganda supporting the US dollar and other fiat currencies. Gotta keep the faith of the populace up. 
 

 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

Spoiler

ARTICLEJustin Trudeau may be the best thing to happen to crypto since Satoshi Nakamoto.

With a considerable share of U.S.–Canada trade on pause and much of daily life disrupted across Canada’s cities, Prime Minister Trudeau has invoked, for the first time in his country’s history, Emergency Measures Act powers to shut down a domestic political protest, the so-called Freedom Convoy movement that began with complaints about the imposition of vaccine mandates on Canadian truckers reentering Canadian territory from the United States, and that has since become associated with, as these things now do, a long litany of complaints concerning everything from ordinary political business to QAnon nonsense and other exotic imports from south of the border.
 

In this so-called emergency, Trudeau is not sending in the troops. He is cutting off the money.

Trudeau, sounding a little like the old southern segregationists who complained about “outside agitators,” insists that the protests have been driven by “social media and illicit funding” rather than by genuine disapproval of his government’s policies. And so he is using the Emergency Measures Act to invest himself with the unilateral power to freeze bank accounts and cancel insurance policies, without so much as a court order and with essentially no recourse for those he targets. Canadian banks and financial-services companies will be ordered to disable clients suspected of being involved in the protests.

Trudeau says the protests are illegal. That is not quite right. The protests are not illegal per se, though some of the protesters certainly are breaking the law, for instance by blocking public roads and the like. The obvious parallel is the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests in Canada, which also included some law-breaking. Trudeau did not invoke Emergency Measures Act powers to suppress those protests, even though they brought together large crowds during a particularly dangerous phase of the Covid-19 epidemic contrary to the advice of Trudeau’s government — and the advice out of his own mouth, for that matter. Far from shutting down those protests, Trudeau actually participated in them, making a pious spectacle out of himself.

 

 

 

In leaning on the sensitive pressure point of financial services, Trudeau is following the example of Democrats in the United States, who have used strategies ranging from securities investigations to insurance regulation to punish political enemies ranging from the National Rifle Association to oil companies. Using financial regulation to crush freedom of speech isn’t financial regulation — it is crushing freedom of speech by abusing the powers of a government office.
 

This kind of thing is not exactly new — in 1933, Franklin Roosevelt used emergency powers to seize all gold in private hands in the United States in order to fortify the Federal Reserve — but technological changes have made such schemes more insidious. Paper money can be stuffed into mattresses, and coins can be buried in coffee cans. But when money is electronic and the information architecture enabling most financial transactions is heavily regulated and easily subjected to invasive surveillance, then financial regulators enjoy powers that no FDR — or Napoleon, or Lenin — ever dreamt of possessing. The opportunities for mischief are serious and worrisome — and so are the opportunities for tyranny.

Activists who have tried to use politicized financial regulation to undermine the Second Amendment, to take one example, never seem to think about how the same tactics could be used against the First Amendment: The New York Times may enjoy the protection of the Bill of Rights, but without access to banking and commerce, that constitutional right cannot be effectively acted upon, and, hence, may as well not exist as a practical matter. Try running a newspaper or a political party with no bank account.

 

 

 

I myself do not particularly sympathize with the aims or the tactics of the protesters in Canada. I don’t care much for unruly mobs of any persuasion. But even so, it is impossible not to see the plain fact that these protesters are being targeted not for their practical effect or their tactics but for their beliefs and for the sort of people they are, that an obvious double standard is at play, and that this is deeply illiberal. A politically neutral police effort to open the roads and protect the rights of property and travel would be one thing, but this is the opposite: far from politically neutral, and intended to narrow social life and political discourse rather than to keep them open. When the laws are enforced exclusively (or with extra vigor) against political enemies, that is not law enforcement — that is political repression.

And it is political repression even in instances in which the content of the law itself is unobjectionable — for example, there is a difference between reviewing the paperwork of tax-exempt groups and reviewing the paperwork of tax-exempt groups that you consider political enemies and hope to harm. Permitting protests you endorse and shutting down those that are critical of your government — and that is precisely what Trudeau is trying to do — is illegitimate.

 

 

 

In our time, we don’t burn forbidden books — Amazon just makes politically nonconformist works disappear. We don’t lock people up for having the wrong political beliefs — but we do make sure they cannot earn a living, go to school, or raise their children in peace. And we don’t have to send men with jackboots and billy clubs to break up protests — we have very polite Canadian bankers to do that for us.

It can be no surprise, then, that people are looking for digital platforms that protect their anonymity and keep their communications slightly beyond the reach of the long arm of the state. People who do not expect to be treated fairly and who have no confidence that their rights (or even their interests) will be taken into consideration are forced to improvise. And it’s even less surprising that cryptocurrencies and other escape routes from the banking system increasingly appeal to people who are neither cartel bosses nor international men of mystery. In a world in which unpopular political views can cut an individual or an organization off from the financial main stream, such innovations are necessities.

When people cannot trust their governments to protect their liberties, they will seek protection elsewhere. That imposes real costs on a society. Canadians should think twice about whether they wish to pay those costs for the sake of Mr. Trudeau’s prejudice and ease.
 

 

[Captainant 27682]