City student passes 3 classes in four years, ranks near top half of class with 0.13 GPA

[clapclapclap 9000]

Serious story on the utter failure of social promotion, this one just happens to be from Baltimore.  But they aren't the only major abusers.

Spoiler

BALTIMORE (WBFF) – A shocking discovery out of a Baltimore City high school, where Project Baltimore has found hundreds of students are failing. It’s a school where a student who passed three classes in four years, ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average.

Tiffany France thought her son would receive his diploma this coming June. But after four years of high school, France just learned, her 17-year-old must start over. He’s been moved back to ninth grade.

“He's stressed and I am too. I told him I'm probably going to start crying. I don't know what to do for him,” France told Project Baltimore. “Why would he do three more years in school? He didn't fail, the school failed him. The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”

ALSO READ | Most education committee members, mayor silent on report about troubled Baltimore school

France’s son attends Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts in west Baltimore. His transcripts show he’s passed just three classes in four years, earning 2.5 credits, placing him in ninth grade. But France says she didn’t know that until February. She has three children and works three jobs. She thought her oldest son was doing well because even though he failed most of his classes, he was being promoted. His transcripts show he failed Spanish I and Algebra I but was promoted to Spanish II and Algebra II. He also failed English II but was passed on to English III.

 

“I'm just assuming that if you are passing, that you have the proper things to go to the next grade and the right grades, you have the right credits,” said France.

As we dig deeper into her son’s records, we can see in his first three years at Augusta Fells, he failed 22 classes and was late or absent 272 days. But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.

ALSO READ | Calls to Shut Down City School Where 0.13 GPA Ranks Near Top Half of Class

“I feel like they never gave my son an opportunity, like if there was an issue with him, not advancing or not progressing, that they should have contacted me first, three years ago,” said France.

In his four years at Augusta Fells, France’s son earned a GPA of 0.13. He only passed three classes, but his transcripts show his class rank is 62 out of 120. This means, nearly half his classmates, 58 of them, have a 0.13 grade point average or lower.

 

“He's a good kid. He didn't deserve that. Where's the mentors? Where is the help for him? I hate that this is happening to my child,” said an emotional France.

Project Baltimore talked with a City Schools administrator, who works inside North Avenue, but asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation. That administrator says the school system absolutely failed France’s son.

ALSO READ | Emails from Baltimore City Schools Show Culture of Grade Changing

The administrator told FOX45 News, City Schools failed because it has protocols and interventions set up to help students who are falling behind or have low attendance. In France’s son’s case, they didn’t happen.

“I get angry. There's nothing but frustration. We see on the news the crime that occurs, the murders, the shootings, we know that there are high levels of poverty in Baltimore. Things like this are adding to that. His transcript is not unusual to me. I've seen many transcripts, many report cards, like this particular student,” said the City Schools administrator.

Dr. Sonja Santelises was the City Schools CEO four years ago when France’s son was a freshman. But she will not interview with FOX45 News. Instead, we received a two-page statement, which explains what should happen when a student is chronically absent or failing.

The district says students received a letter about their academic status this past summer, and records can be accessed through the campus portal. When a student is absent, an automated call is placed to the number on file. The statement also said the school conducted recent home visits and the student’s parent visited the school. France says none of that happened.

What the statement does not address, is why France’s son was promoted despite failing classes. It doesn’t discuss his class rank, or the 58 other students with a GPA of 0.13 or lower. But it does say North Avenue is “reviewing actions that impacted student outcomes” at the school prior to this year.

“It took a lot for me to just build the courage to do this,” France told Project Baltimore.

Project Baltimore asked the City Schools administrator what they would say to France. The administrator replied, “I didn't have a hand on this student, but I worked for City Schools. So, he is one of my kids. I would hug her, and I would apologize profusely.”

“He feels embarrassed, he feels like a failure,” France said of her son. “I'm like, you can't feel like that. And you have to be strong and you got to keep fighting. Life is about fighting. Things happen, but you got to keep fighting. And he's willing, he's trying, but who would he turn to when the people that's supposed to help him is not? Who do he turn to?”

ALSO READ | 6 Baltimore schools, no students proficient in state tests

France has pulled her son out of Augusta Fells. He’s now enrolled in an accelerated school program at Francis M. Wood in west Baltimore. If her son works hard, he could graduate by 2023.

The entire statement from Baltimore City Schools is below:

"Our goal is to provide resources and support to students and their families struggling with academic or attendance challenges. We hold schools and staff members accountable if that does not occur, including making appropriate staffing changes to improve outcomes. City Schools does not publicly discuss the individual academic or attendance records or data of its students. However, City Schools has taken multiple steps with the student's family to support the young man, including:

• In summer 2020, students at Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts received a letter explaining their academic status.
• Per Board Policy, teachers will provide students and parents with information about student achievement by regularly updating grades using Campus Portal. All families have access to this tool. In many cases, the school or teacher will notify the student of a potential course failure and allow work to be made up to support the student. Schools also provide parents the option for a conference following each report card.
• Anytime a student is absent from a class, the student's family receives an automated phone call at their listed number advising the missed time. If necessary, families may respond to the call by noting if the absence meets the criteria to be excused.
• School staff also attempted to contact the student's family. The school later mailed a letter and conducted a home visit. Ultimately, the student's parent visited the school and met with its leadership.
• The student's family has met with or talked recently with school and district level staff. regarding the student's progress.

ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE

Communication is important. If a student has poor attendance or the school cannot contact the family and develop an intervention, the student may fail the course, which may alter their ability to graduate.

School leadership is also key to ensuring the appropriate interventions take place. City Schools requires leadership that will effectively address student academic performance and support. City Schools is reviewing actions that impacted student outcomes at the Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts before the 2020-2021 school year. Additionally (and separately from recent events at Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts), City Schools will take prudent steps to intervene, including school leadership changes, to ensure our standards for student achievement are uniformly and consistently achieved throughout the district.

ATTENDANCE INTERVENTIONS

Children between the ages of 5 and 18 must attend school — it's the law. If an absence occurs, the student's family receives a daily automated phone call advising of the absence. If necessary, families may respond to the call by noting if the absence meets the criteria to be excused. Otherwise, the absence is recorded as unexcused.

Students who are absent for 10% or more of school days are considered chronically absent. If a student is chronically absent, the following interventions should occur:

• The school calls the family to check in and understand what issues may be contributing to the absence so that appropriate supports may be provided. This outreach may also occur through emails, text messages, and sometimes social media when phone calls fail. Communication may break down if the family's contact information has changed or they cannot be contacted.
• When making outreach efforts, a meeting will be scheduled with the family to develop a plan to provide support around attendance. Where appropriate, this may be a Student Support Team or IEP meeting.
• If these outreach efforts fail, a home visit should be conducted to check on the student and arrange for a follow-up meeting with the school.
• If the absences continue, then the school should send a letter to the family to notify the family of the number of school days missed and again attempt to set up a meeting with a school representative.
• If the school is unsuccessful in their outreach efforts, the district's office may be contacted to assist in reaching out to the student or the family.

Truancy is a legal term used to identify students who have missed more than 20% of school days (about 3.5 days per month) without a lawful reason.

If a student has missed 15 days of school without a legal reason, the school may make a truancy referral to the district office. At that point, the district office issues a letter of concern to the family and conducts a case review to determine if due diligence has been done in trying to reach the family and support the student’s re-engagement in school. The district office also monitors the student’s data to determine if the letter of concern has an impact on the student’s attendance.

If the district determines that the school has made every effort to work with the family and offer support but that the student has continued accruing unexcused absences, charges will be filed against the parent or guardian in district court."

So let's get some of the snarks out of the way:

1.  The good news is a future SEC Red Lobster Scholar Athlete of the Week award is still attainable

2.  Baltimore just one four-upped Kentucky, giving him an extra 4 years of HS (Kentucky Senate grants high school senios(sic) another year)

Edited March 3, 2021 by clapclapclap

[crash_davis 23084]

Who's the bigger idiot? The son who has the grades to prove he's an idiot, or the mom who had no fucking clue that her son only passed 3 classes in 4 years? Or is it the school administrators and teachers?

Everyone involved in this story can go to hell.

[Samson's Wig 3181]

Our public education system is the biggest problem we face as a nation, in my opinion.  It may already be too late, but if we don't make major changes soon our nation will certainly come to an ignominious and rapid end. 

[Earl Haffler 584]

 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2059]

they should just do twentieth birthday and you're out.  the daycare function of public school is way past done at that time, and ain't nothing your last few years of high school worth knowing any way.

[crash_davis 23084]

4 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Our public education system is the biggest problem we face as a nation, in my opinion.  It may already be too late, but if we don't make major changes soon our nation will certainly come to an ignominious and rapid end. 

Education starts in the home. Parents who don't give a shit about their kids education will have stupid poor kids. The fact that this mom was "surprised" that her son only passed three classes and then blames the school is the reason why her son is a fucking idiot. Tree, meet the apple spawn at your feet.

[gsoda3 3236]

man the system did fail.  it's designed to prevent these scenarios.  there's no denying the failure there.  but the kid and the parent also failed.  he had an opportunity, get out of here with he wasn't given an opportunity.  he blew it.  mom's spaghetti.  the mom needed to have been involved, she failed too.  all sides need to own their faults.  there needs to be accountability.  stop blaming things you can't control.  

[Samson's Wig 3181]

7 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Education starts in the home. Parents who don't give a shit about their kids education will have stupid poor kids. The fact that this mom was "surprised" that her son only passed three classes and then blames the school is the reason why her son is a fucking idiot. Tree, meet the apple spawn at your feet.

I agree with you, and if you can come up with a plan for fixing what goes on in people's homes I'm all ears.  Until that riddle is solved all we can do is try and fix the education system, which is plenty broken on its own.  

[Guest Lobo]

8 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Our public education system is the biggest problem we face as a nation, in my opinion.  It may already be too late, but if we don't make major changes soon our nation will certainly come to an ignominious and rapid end. 

While I agree, a major issue with this notion is that most of the people think only the truly horrific schools at the very bottom are the real issue and that most school public schools are okay, especially theirs.  Because they themselves, don't know how stupid they actually are.  You can get people to agree to overhaul health care (care, not insurance) long before we can get an overhaul of public education done.  Because people will recognize they are getting older and sicker, and their hearts can occasionally feel sympathy for sick kids or poor people who are dying for no reason.  There's kind of a biological element there.  But when it comes to schools, most people think everything is fine for the most part because, "Hey I went to a fine school and I turned out good 'n stuff."  There's no real baseline once they leave.  And of course as proud parents in 'Murica where every kid is special, they won't see the issues in their kids' district either because every parent wants to say, "Oh yeah, we live in a great school district.  Timmy and Sally are doing amazing!"  Only time parents give a shit about the efficacy of a school is when they get to bitch to the teacher or principal about how they're failing to recognize the genius in their kids.  

Take our state of Texas.  We have probably a dozen truly exceptional public school districts, if that.  Maybe the top 5-10% of districts are gonna produce decently well-rounded citizens to the tune of their top 25% of students each.  You've got a truly abysmal bottom third or so that there's just no hope for anybody from that school except the once-in-a-decade 60 minutes story.  Then you've got the middle 60% of school districts.  The ones that the parents and students think are top-performing because they bought an add in Texas Monthly saying "Top Performing District Ten Years Running!" next to the best lawyers in your area.  And they're just falling farther and farther behind with every passing semester with no hope to right the ship.  And it's sad because the people on the ship can't see they're floating back to shore.  But we keep going through the motions, keep throwing more money at it, and the worse part---we keep the letting the parents and the kids live the lie.  They're being bred to be the stupid people we sell the next lie to, and the one after that, and the one after that.  

[Jive Turkey 12568]

season four of The Wire told us all about this.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Jive Turkey

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2059]

duquan imo

[crash_davis 23084]

11 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I agree with you, and if you can come up with a plan for fixing what goes on in people's homes I'm all ears.  Until that riddle is solved all we can do is try and fix the education system, which is plenty broken on its own.  

From an administrator perspective, why should they care if the kid and the parents don't care. Why should they take the onus to teach kids who have no modicum of interest in learning? 

Not saying they don't own responsibility but you can't make kids do want they don't want to do. Their metric to enforce are grades. Beyond grades, what else can they do to encourage the kid and mom to give a shit?

Edited March 3, 2021 by crash_davis

[Red Five 40665]

His GPA is a solid 0.13. Not showing off, not falling behind. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2059]

5 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

From an administrator perspective, why should they care if the kid and the parents don't care. Why should they take the onus to teach kids who have no modicum of interest in learning? 

Not saying they don't own responsibility but you can't make kids do want they don't want to do. Their metric to enforce are grades. Beyond grades, what else can do they to encourage the kid and mom to give a shit?

 

[immortal13 4059]

14 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

man the system did fail.  it's designed to prevent these scenarios.  there's no denying the failure there.  but the kid and the parent also failed.  he had an opportunity, get out of here with he wasn't given an opportunity.  he blew it.  mom's spaghetti.  the mom needed to have been involved, she failed too.  all sides need to own their faults.  there needs to be accountability.  stop blaming things you can't control.  

Disagree. You can't teach a kid who doesn't want to learn and won't participate. The mom should have checked up on how her kid was doing. I guess she never heard of a report card. 

[Samson's Wig 3181]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

From an administrator perspective, why should they care if the kid and the parents don't care. Why should they take the onus to teach kids who have no modicum of interest in learning? 

Not saying they don't own responsibility but you can't make kids do want they don't want to do. Their metric to enforce are grades. Beyond grades, what else can do they to encourage the kid and mom to give a shit?

Kids like that shouldn't be in school in the first place. They should have just flunked his ass if he wasn't doing the work until he got the message or dropped out. That's one small part of the problem with our public school system.  We cater to the lowest common denominator instead of focusing on pumping out as many high functioning citizens as possible.  I have no idea about Maryland, but I suspect pushing him along was tied to funding issues. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

While I agree, a major issue with this notion is that most of the people think only the truly horrific schools at the very bottom are the real issue and that most school public schools are okay, especially theirs.  Because they themselves, don't know how stupid they actually are.  You can get people to agree to overhaul health care (care, not insurance) long before we can get an overhaul of public education done.  Because people will recognize they are getting older and sicker, and their hearts can occasionally feel sympathy for sick kids or poor people who are dying for no reason.  There's kind of a biological element there.  But when it comes to schools, most people think everything is fine for the most part because, "Hey I went to a fine school and I turned out good 'n stuff."  There's no real baseline once they leave.  And of course as proud parents in 'Murica where every kid is special, they won't see the issues in their kids' district either because every parent wants to say, "Oh yeah, we live in a great school district.  Timmy and Sally are doing amazing!"  Only time parents give a shit about the efficacy of a school is when they get to bitch to the teacher or principal about how they're failing to recognize the genius in their kids.  

Take our state of Texas.  We have probably a dozen truly exceptional public school districts, if that.  Maybe the top 5-10% of districts are gonna produce decently well-rounded citizens to the tune of their top 25% of students each.  You've got a truly abysmal bottom third or so that there's just no hope for anybody from that school except the once-in-a-decade 60 minutes story.  Then you've got the middle 60% of school districts.  The ones that the parents and students think are top-performing because they bought an add in Texas Monthly saying "Top Performing District Ten Years Running!" next to the best lawyers in your area.  And they're just falling farther and farther behind with every passing semester with no hope to right the ship.  And it's sad because the people on the ship can't see they're floating back to shore.  But we keep going through the motions, keep throwing more money at it, and the worse part---we keep the letting the parents and the kids live the lie.  They're being bred to be the stupid people we sell the next lie to, and the one after that, and the one after that.  

I agree it's a bit counterintuitive because people are lead to believe (and have biased memories of a different time when they went to solid middle class public schools) and think, "well, this school is a blue chip/award winning one, and it's free" even though it more-or-less sucks

I firmly believe that the best investments one can make in their family is in this order: a) home schooling b) university-model school (3 days at a private, 2 days at home with engaged parent) or c) private school, if you can afford it, acknowledging these are privileges.

Obviously the woman in this story (3 jobs and 3 kids, single mom, poor in the ghetto), and all the women like her in that demographic and social/economic strata, do not have that privilege so something must be done to help them, I just don't know what or how, and I think that's the overarching problem with schools. Nobody knows how to fix the problem. If they did and could execute on the plan, they'd be the next President in a shoe-in.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

His GPA is a solid 0.13. Not showing off, not falling behind. 

.13 is right in the middle of the Delta pledge class, right where you want to be.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

OU sucks

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2059]

 

[Brothahorn 10085]

49 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Who's the bigger idiot? The son who has the grades to prove he's an idiot, or the mom who had no fucking clue that her son only passed 3 classes in 4 years? Or is it the school administrators and teachers?

Everyone involved in this story can go to hell.

Either way it's criminal.

[gsoda3 3236]

14 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Disagree. You can't teach a kid who doesn't want to learn and won't participate. The mom should have checked up on how her kid was doing. I guess she never heard of a report card. 

you missed where i said the mom needed to have been involved, she failed too.

[crash_davis 23084]

17 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree it's a bit counterintuitive because people are lead to believe (and have biased memories of a different time when they went to solid middle class public schools) and think, "well, this school is a blue chip/award winning one, and it's free" even though it more-or-less sucks

I firmly believe that the best investments one can make in their family is in this order: a) home schooling b) university-model school (3 days at a private, 2 days at home with engaged parent) or c) private school, if you can afford it, acknowledging these are privileges.

Obviously the woman in this story (3 jobs and 3 kids, single mom, poor in the ghetto), and all the women like her in that demographic and social/economic strata, do not have that privilege so something must be done to help them, I just don't know what or how, and I think that's the overarching problem with schools. Nobody knows how to fix the problem. If they did and could execute on the plan, they'd be the next President in a shoe-in.

The government can and should help people who want to help themselves. I'm a firm believer of that. 

What the government can't do is make people give a shit. The system is in place for kids to at minimum do ok. If they really give a shit, they can do well. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by crash_davis

[gyroprotagonist 2591]

dayum.  that's crazy.  both my folks were teachers so i never cut class much at all, but missing/late 280 days/540 (180 school days per year) is pretty impressive.  But if you were getting 'passed' to the next class/grade anyway, then why stop cutting class?

There is a lot of meat on the bone for everyone here.

- The fuck 'em cuz 'poor life choices' crowd 

- The  schools are a waste of tax payer money crowd

- the 'what in the actual fuck' can we please spend more resources to fix the school system crowd

everyone wins?

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Just now, gyroprotagonist said:

dayum.  that's crazy.  both my folks were teachers so i never cut class much at all, but missing/late 280 days/540 (180 school days per year) is pretty impressive.  But if you were getting 'passed' to the next class/grade anyway, then why stop cutting class?

There is a lot of meat on the bone for everyone here.

- The fuck 'em cuz 'poor life choices' crowd 

- The  schools are a waste of tax payer money crowd

- the 'what in the actual fuck' can we please spend more resources to fix the school system crowd

everyone wins?

everyone loses, this story is the snake eyes that craps out the entire group of people huddles around the craps table.

Edited March 3, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

The government can and should help people who want to help themselves. I'm a firm believer of that. 

What the government can't do is make people give a shit. The system is in place for kids for kids to at minimum do ok. If they really give a shit, they can do well. 

Right, and I wonder how real the mom's dismay and outrage is. I wonder if everyone was well-and-fine to let sleeping dogs lie and just have junior move through the system, as his brothers and sisters before him did, by cursory participation and turning a blind eye to the getting passed. Now that it's blown up and he has to go back to 9th grade it's not her or her son's fault, but the shady system. Which is still a fair criticism, but I wonder how innocent and ignorant to the system she actually was compared to her claims.

Edited March 3, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[futureman 22415]

Quote

He didn't fail, the school failed him. The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.

hmmmm. I think I can see the problem. 

[Armybrat 40744]

As I recall, in the UK when school kids reach the age of 15 they take some exams to determine their next stage of education.

The more brainy types will be eligible to take courses to prepare them for college, while the remainder are channeled into trade schools. pretty good system, IMO, but can have available exceptions& choices.

Seems that over the past 50+ years the US system has been to push the flawed concept that everyone should “go to college”, even those who are semiliterate (raises hand). That approach has clearly failed.

[Brothahorn 10085]

8 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Right, and I wonder how real the mom's dismay and outrage is. I wonder if everyone was well-and-fine to let sleeping dogs lie and just have junior move through the system, as his brothers and sisters before him did, by cursory participation and turning a blind eye to the getting passed. Now that it's blown up and he has to go back to 9th grade it's not her or her son's fault, but the shady system. Which is still a fair criticism, but I wonder how innocent and ignorant to the system she actually was compared to her claims.

Mom is full of shit. A kid is going to be a kid, especially if there is no foundation to guide him. The educators can only do so much, save so many. If this dude is in the top half, imagine how bad it is. I'm sure they give up after a certain point.

 

But mom has to do her job as a parent. If working 3 jobs mean she wakes his ass up at 3am on Sunday to talk about his grades, then that's what it is. At least he will know you care and has some type of accountability. 

 

Quote

 

He didn't fail, the school failed him. The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”

 

If  nothing else mom is teaching about personal responsibility. As in you don't need any.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

System or parenting, there are 58 kids with a lower gpa than him, in his class, if I’m reading that correctly.  There might be a problem at that school. 
 

as for the student, and the others in the same situation, what is the point of going back and being a high school student for 3 more years?  Get a ged or get a job, or get both. 

[crash_davis 23084]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

System or parenting, there are 58 kids with a lower gpa than him, in his class, if I’m reading that correctly.  There might be a problem at that school. 

in this case, my post above stands.

 

everyone involved in this story can go to hell.

[futureman 22415]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Get a ged or get a job, or get both. 

don’t you have to pass some kind of test to get a ged?

['stache 21774]

58 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Kids like that shouldn't be in school in the first place. They should have just flunked his ass if he wasn't doing the work until he got the message or dropped out. That's one small part of the problem with our public school system.  We cater to the lowest common denominator instead of focusing on pumping out as many high functioning citizens as possible.  I have no idea about Maryland, but I suspect pushing him along was tied to funding issues. 

You realize that a well-funded public education system can address both issues right? Support students that are struggling or who are otherwised troubled, while also pumping out well rounded smart individuals. The problem is we pay teachers and staff like babysitters, some areas (cough..cough..Texas) spend obscene amounts of money on sports instead of curriculum. And for all of you blaming the parents, how can you pretend that all situations are the same? On the one hand, they could be flat out shitty parents in which case we should do whatever it takes to help kids from these troubled homes. The parents could be abusive, in which case we should help the kids from the troubled home. The parents may be physically or mentally incapable of helping in this regard, in which case we should help the kid anyhow. Or the parent may be trying but they have to work 3 jobs just to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads, in which case they don't have time or energy to devote fully to the kids education. In each and every one of those scenarios, we need to be helping the kids. We need to pay teachers like professionals, especially those who work with difficult kids from difficult situations. But cloak room cloak room small government, so here we are. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by 'stache

[Steel Shank 9415]

31 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

As I recall, in the UK when school kids reach the age of 15 they take some exams to determine their next stage of education.

The more brainy types will be eligible to take courses to prepare them for college, while the remainder are channeled into trade schools. pretty good system, IMO, but can have available exceptions& choices.

Seems that over the past 50+ years the US system has been to push the flawed concept that everyone should “go to college”, even those who are semiliterate (raises hand). That approach has clearly failed.

All this. We're wasting resources trying to educate this way. More emphasis on trade schools. Focus education dollars on those that want educating. The notion that everyone should go to college is ridiculous.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Steel Shank

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Education starts in the home. Parents who don't give a shit about their kids education will have stupid poor kids. The fact that this mom was "surprised" that her son only passed three classes and then blames the school is the reason why her son is a fucking idiot. Tree, meet the apple spawn at your feet.

Yep, if Parents are not involved 99% of kids fail to achieve the success they have the potential to.

[clapclapclap 9000]

Back when I was growing up, we had truant officers that would pursue these cases, rather aggressively if I remember correctly.  So the parent(s), and if necessary at some points the courts, would be made and kept aware of the situation.  And there was an alternative education campus for disrupters and those who fell too far behind because of repeated attendance violations.  Perhaps not perfect, but it kept the primary classrooms quieter and more focused on actual learning.  The rest of the students weren't penalized by trying to mainstream troublemakers.  Shape up and they could rejoin their peers.

But the Utopians and lawyers pretty much killed that system because something something excuses excuses excuses. 

While not excusing the parent, there's a lot the system can do to make an impact.  Which is something we as a community have some indirect control over, versus a possibly overwhelmed single parent who still only has 24 hours in a day.

Edited March 3, 2021 by clapclapclap
And back in the day our walking to school through snow uphill both ways kept obesity under control

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, clapclapclap said:

Back when I was growing up, we had truant officers that would pursue these cases, rather aggressively if I remember correctly.  So the parent(s), and if necessary at some points the courts, would be made and kept aware of the situation.  And there was an alternative education campus for disrupters and those who fell to far behind because of repeated attendance violations.  Perhaps not perfect, but it kept the primary classrooms quieter and more focused on actual learning.  The rest of the students weren't penalized by trying to mainstream troublemakers.  Shape up and they could rejoin their peers.

But the Utopians and lawyers pretty much killed that system because something something excuses excuses excuses. 

I believe the term your looking for is set the bar to the lowest common denominator.

[Armybrat 40744]

The path to American education..

 

[Restinmybones 111]

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

Our public education system is the biggest problem we face as a nation, in my opinion.  It may already be too late, but if we don't make major changes soon our nation will certainly come to an ignominious and rapid end. 

oh my god look alien murder hornets from planet covid

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Honestly, a large part of the problem is there are a shitload of people in this country that SHOULD NOT BE PARENTS.  This is a larger issue than just the economic system.  It is a travesty that any child in this country goes hungry.  It is a travesty that we do not have a better system for removing kids from bad situations.  The whole fucking system is broken.  

FYI, my stance on this mom is it is unfortunate that she has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet.  However, based on the blame she assigned (all the school's fault), I doubt that a UBI program would end up with her being more involved with her kids.  I am 100% in support of UBI, but there are just some people that cannot be helped.  Didn't we at some point talk about small boarding schools that might help stuff like this?

[GringoSalado 1651]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Serious story on the utter failure of social promotion, this one just happens to be from Baltimore.  But they aren't the only major abusers.

  Hide contents

“He feels embarrassed, he feels like a failure,” France said of her son. “I'm like, you can't feel like that. And you have to be strong and you got to keep fighting. Life is about fighting.

 

You can't fight if you don't show up.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

12 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Honestly, a large part of the problem is there are a shitload of people in this country that SHOULD NOT BE PARENTS.  This is a larger issue than just the economic system.  It is a travesty that any child in this country goes hungry.  It is a travesty that we do not have a better system for removing kids from bad situations.  The whole fucking system is broken.  

FYI, my stance on this mom is it is unfortunate that she has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet.  However, based on the blame she assigned (all the school's fault), I doubt that a UBI program would end up with her being more involved with her kids.  I am 100% in support of UBI, but there are just some people that cannot be helped.  Didn't we at some point talk about small boarding schools that might help stuff like this?

Yep.

Dropouts and fuckups have always been there.  Always.  Even in the sunny pleasantville of the 1950s.

Something is making the problem more acute or more visible (or both) today.  Maybe it's higher birth rates or infant survival rates among the poors.  Maybe it's just the news cycle.  

One thing is for sure, though, we do not need any more ditch diggers.

[ABSR 5289]

51 minutes ago, 'stache said:

You realize that a well-funded public education system can address both issues right? Support students that are struggling or who are otherwised troubled, while also pumping out well rounded smart individuals. The problem is we pay teachers and staff like babysitters, some areas (cough..cough..Texas) spend obscene amounts of money on sports instead of curriculum. And for all of you blaming the parents, how can you pretend that all situations are the same? On the one hand, they could be flat out shitty parents in which case we should do whatever it takes to help kids from these troubled homes. The parents could be abusive, in which case we should help the kids from the troubled home. The parents may be physically or mentally incapable of helping in this regard, in which case we should help the kid anyhow. Or the parent may be trying but they have to work 3 jobs just to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads, in which case they don't have time or energy to devote fully to the kids education. In each and every one of those scenarios, we need to be helping the kids. We need to pay teachers like professionals, especially those who work with difficult kids from difficult situations. But cloak room cloak room small government, so here we are. 

"Schools in the United States spend an average of $12,612 per pupil, which is the fifth-highest amount per pupil among the 37 other developed nations in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." 

The countries with a higher spend are Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway, and Austria....I believe.  This article does not call out any country but Luxembourg as the top so this list is from a different article.

The article actually looks to call out US spending as too low as it points to percentage of GDP to criticize US spending, but the reality is that with the fifth highest spend (public school only) per pupil, throwing more dollars at the problem is not necessarily addressing the underlying issues.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics

 

['stache 21774]

3 minutes ago, ABSR said:

"Schools in the United States spend an average of $12,612 per pupil, which is the fifth-highest amount per pupil among the 37 other developed nations in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." 

The countries with a higher spend are Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway, and Austria....I believe.  This article does not call out any country but Luxembourg as the top so this list is from a different article.

The article actually looks to call out US spending as too low as it points to percentage of GDP to criticize US spending, but the reality is that with the fifth highest spend (public school only) per pupil, throwing more dollars at the problem is not necessarily addressing the underlying issues.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics

 

Citing statistics like as a reason to justify continued cuts to education is a big part of the problem. Same with the idea that more spending is "throwing money at the problem." The statistic also doesn't account for states like Oklahoma that treat their teachers like shit and pay them as such.  

[DonkeyCigars 144]

34 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Honestly, a large part of the problem is there are a shitload of people in this country that SHOULD NOT BE PARENTS.  This is a larger issue than just the economic system.  It is a travesty that any child in this country goes hungry.  It is a travesty that we do not have a better system for removing kids from bad situations.  The whole fucking system is broken.  

FYI, my stance on this mom is it is unfortunate that she has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet.  However, based on the blame she assigned (all the school's fault), I doubt that a UBI program would end up with her being more involved with her kids.  I am 100% in support of UBI, but there are just some people that cannot be helped.  Didn't we at some point talk about small boarding schools that might help stuff like this?

The hardest part for me, is that you are right and also, abortion I think is wrong. So in that sense, there isn't a good answer for me morally, in order to form a more perfect union. That's a philosophical issue I struggle with, because no matter your stance on abortion, it is hard to argue with the efficacy in the toolbox to help the crapload of people in this country that should not be parents, not be parents. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[ABSR 5289]

Just now, 'stache said:

Citing statistics like as a reason to justify continued cuts to education is a big part of the problem. Same with the idea that more spending is "throwing money at the problem." The statistic also doesn't account for states like Oklahoma that treat their teachers like shit and pay them as such.  

Sorry you or your wife is a public school teacher in Oklahoma. 

But Surliness/kidding aside, if the statistics said that the US spent more than any other country would you still have the same take?  What if the US spent twice as much as any other country?  Is your perspective that if we spent twice as much as any other country that the situation like the one in the OP would not have happened?  If yes, I would unfortunately disagree as I think the problems we face are more underlying ones than ones that money can fix.

From the same article it has State spending and "Maryland schools spend $14,762 per pupil for a total of $13.2 billion annually." Which ranks 15th in the US, and I think would be 3rd or 4th in the world if compared to other countries.

Not that teachers shouldn't be paid more, but my point is that we have other issues with our educational system that money won't address.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

21 minutes ago, ABSR said:

"Schools in the United States spend an average of $12,612 per pupil, which is the fifth-highest amount per pupil among the 37 other developed nations in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." 

The countries with a higher spend are Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway, and Austria....I believe.  This article does not call out any country but Luxembourg as the top so this list is from a different article.

The article actually looks to call out US spending as too low as it points to percentage of GDP to criticize US spending, but the reality is that with the fifth highest spend (public school only) per pupil, throwing more dollars at the problem is not necessarily addressing the underlying issues.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics

 

Money isn't the issue from the standpoint of what a school system spends. Money is an issue in that most parents who don't value education are typically in the poverty swath of our population.  Successful education is parents> kids >teachers > school/ money spent.

[B00M 6280]

Can't help but shake my head and laugh at this story. If that kid is 50th percentile, the whole school population is fucked and checked out, doomed to repeat the mistakes of their parents and contribute to the vicious cycle.

Absent parent failed to instill values and then puts kid into anti-school culture. Kid behaves predictably. Mom contributes to anti-school culture thinking it's okay if he fails basically every course. Kid behaves predictably. School that has no real authority over the kids, can't discipline them, and is clearly overwhelmed tries to correct mistakes and hold kids accountable? Massive media shit storm. Lesson? Just find a way to pass him and let the failure graduate. Murica

[TKthunder2 4981]

My neighbor’s kid works 3 jobs since he dropped out of ACC.

Uber

Lyft

and DoorDash

[DonkeyCigars 144]

20 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

My neighbor’s kid works 3 jobs since he dropped out of ACC.

Uber

Lyft

and DoorDash

Are those really 3 different jobs, though? /ThorGif