Calling all Surly Musicians

[TexasEd 8067]

I immediately imagined something that sounded like this with a kids toy keyboard, kazoo, and recorder.

 

 

[phdhorn 6224]

2 hours ago, hullabelew said:

The rights for music on podcasts are DRASTICALLY different from those for radio, advertising, and youtube.  They are MUCH more strict.  I've done a little research on this, enough to know that if you want to use someone's music on a podcast, you have to pretty much get their approval for each specific song.  

I'm trying to find out how the dude from the Strong Songs podcast is able to do what he does.  

But for something like this, having original music is the way to go.  I think the guys who run the Dopey podcast have done a cool thing with that one.  Something like the lyrics that @Pato del Muerto posted.  Liked what @phdhorn entry as well.   Interested to see what @Celery Man and the rest of the Surly Guitar Mafia can come up with.  

The "science" (more like train wreck) of copyright permission for music nowadays, especially with social media, is a cluster-f at best.  Stuff like performance royalties vs. mechanical rights, etc.  Even YouTube which for a few years had at least a semblance of "easy permission" for "innocent" uses (i.e. small-time joes who just wanted to put a cover song on YouTube, weren't interested in making money, etc.) abandoned it this year... just too much inability to enforce it.

I wish we could just "innocently" use others' stuff without the suspicion that we're ripping off er'rbody and stealing money, but that's not how it works.  If someone spots a violation, most likely at first you'll simply be asked to stop using it w/o penalty.  If you aren't able to negotiate a fair price (for small-timers usually a one-time fee) for use, then they come at you with penalties - and you hardly ever win on that.  If someone owns copyright, they win.  Period.  No if's, and's, or but's (and the "one time educational use" will usually get you laughed out of court - easily the most overused cheesy and not true excuse that people try).

And no, you can't do "your own" satire version of "Don't Fear The Reaper" on kazoos and trash can lids - that's covered by mechanical and performance royalties - called "a derivative work" and you are liable for paying up... it's your version, but sorry, their song.  

They're still trying to negotiate all of this, mostly because of numbers - the huge majority of people are simply too ignorant/naive of these laws, so 20 million Taylor Swift covers go up, or someone uses 2 seconds of a Phil Collins clip - and all of that is not allowed w/o negotiation - it's kind of like the IRS... since there's a torrent of "cheating," the big hosts (YouTube, Apple, etc. etc.) are negotiating now for softer fees/etc. in the hopes of scooping up a bit more of that revenue than harsh enforcement (i.e. "we can't get nearly everybody, but we can make lemonade out of lemons and make it so more people will volunteer to pay up when busted (and not) so we get at least the 10-15 percent of illegal stuff out there - better than 2% by being bad cop).

Still, it's quite a mess.

If you want copyrighted music (i.e. most likely something that everybody knows - a "hit" or "classic"), often the fees are easily done - say a thousand $ or two once for all time/all areas of the globe (another thing you have to determine, i.e. worldwide, only in North America, etc.).  It can be done but of course the copyright folks (almost always the publisher, you never write directly to the composer/artist) get a little testy.  Many of these publishing companies actually have "fast track" web pages, i.e. "pay this amount, use it for this" without even talking to anyone now.  But you're going to have to pay almost certainly.  Period.  (or be illegal).  Chances are original music by some schlep, he might just hand it over (too bad for him!).  But again, it's important to know that even if he doesn't publish his song, he still has copyright ownership of it.   He doesn't have to do anything - it's his property.  Now they highly encourage everyone to publish (get a copyright "by the books") because without it it might be more difficult to prove the original is yours - and people will fight, even unethically, for that ownership (looky at what Mike Jackoff did to McCartney years back!).

I myself own my own publishing company (parent company has a literary and music branch).  I incorporated in 2019.  One good thing is that if it goes through me, I can get it registered in my company with easy terms (which might be zero $ required, but hey, let's talk).  I'm not yet making money in my companies; I established them specifically for this reason - to have somewhere to publish MY stuff w/o paying another company.  Eventually I might take on composers/authors and make money off of it, but that's not why I did it.

I have a really cute Australian entertainment lawyer who does a lot of this for me, and I don't have time the next week or so for this, but call me after that and I can try to help.

As to the music I did, well I was just f-ing around learning GarageBand, I put in on here as kind of a joke.  Still, it's kind of a cool little groove but obviously Billie Jeanish - however I could easily arrange something that would easily hold up in court (i.e. I didn't plagarize Jacko) - and I'm much, much more used to recording now and can play all the instruments pretty well (bass, guitars, keys, and even sax).  But we can discuss the music itself another time.  What I can do is offer my studio for freebies and discuss what, if any, costs would be incurred for my time to compose/mix (again, not saying there would be but I'd have to talk about it).  I'm in the process of "going public" (spotify, Soundcloud, YouTube, yada yada) and will have more on that later this spring.  For now, this is all still kinda private.

t fucking l; dr:  If you want to use some (usually established) other artist's well-known music in ANY way, it'll probably cost ya at least a little; if you want to use a Surly/Shag person/people, with a little innocent write-up (contract) it can proally be done easily.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by phdhorn

[hullabelew 3724]

37 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I myself own my own publishing company (parent company has a literary and music branch).  I incorporated in 2019.  One good thing is that if it goes through me, I can get it registered in my company with easy terms (which might be zero $ required, but hey, let's talk).  I'm not yet making money in my companies; I established them specifically for this reason - to have somewhere to publish MY stuff w/o paying another company.  Eventually I might take on composers/authors and make money off of it, but that's not why I did it.

I have a really cute Australian entertainment lawyer who does a lot of this for me, and I don't have time the next week or so for this, but call me after that and I can try to help.
 

I have a really cute Australian entertainment lawyer         Ahem........

Also, can you go into more detail on how you set up the publishing company and what that entails?    Maybe in another thread or one of the other music ones?   The cost, process of doing it, etc.  

[clapclapclap 9000]

Shirley the national anthem isn't copyrighted, no?  So just do your own lyrics to that, put away the checkbook, and move on.

Derka Derka Der-ka

Derka Derka Der-ka

Mushroom muuuush-room mushroom

It's a snake, South Austin's mom

Edited March 4, 2021 by clapclapclap

[Hornius Emeritus 12471]

I thought we had a theme song.
 

 

[BurdineBandit 815]

My first thought when I read the banner was "AY DIOS MIO, YA VOY!" 

I thought it said Calling all Surly Mexicans

[hullabelew 3724]

8 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

I thought we had a theme song.
 

 

@Steel Shank Approved

[Laga4 1270]

23 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

I’ll get to work on it. Maybe can collaborate with some others on the music thread that use Logic.

Logic and Surly?

You might want to rethink that. 

[Steel Shank 9428]

41 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

@Steel Shank Approved

[RGBIII 22840]

Do we have infinity songs yet? 

[Kennythetiger 9390]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:58 AM, phdhorn said:

The "science" (more like train wreck) of copyright permission for music nowadays, especially with social media, is a cluster-f at best.  Stuff like performance royalties vs. mechanical rights, etc.  Even YouTube which for a few years had at least a semblance of "easy permission" for "innocent" uses (i.e. small-time joes who just wanted to put a cover song on YouTube, weren't interested in making money, etc.) abandoned it this year... just too much inability to enforce it.

I wish we could just "innocently" use others' stuff without the suspicion that we're ripping off er'rbody and stealing money, but that's not how it works.  If someone spots a violation, most likely at first you'll simply be asked to stop using it w/o penalty.  If you aren't able to negotiate a fair price (for small-timers usually a one-time fee) for use, then they come at you with penalties - and you hardly ever win on that.  If someone owns copyright, they win.  Period.  No if's, and's, or but's (and the "one time educational use" will usually get you laughed out of court - easily the most overused cheesy and not true excuse that people try).

And no, you can't do "your own" satire version of "Don't Fear The Reaper" on kazoos and trash can lids - that's covered by mechanical and performance royalties - called "a derivative work" and you are liable for paying up... it's your version, but sorry, their song.  

They're still trying to negotiate all of this, mostly because of numbers - the huge majority of people are simply too ignorant/naive of these laws, so 20 million Taylor Swift covers go up, or someone uses 2 seconds of a Phil Collins clip - and all of that is not allowed w/o negotiation - it's kind of like the IRS... since there's a torrent of "cheating," the big hosts (YouTube, Apple, etc. etc.) are negotiating now for softer fees/etc. in the hopes of scooping up a bit more of that revenue than harsh enforcement (i.e. "we can't get nearly everybody, but we can make lemonade out of lemons and make it so more people will volunteer to pay up when busted (and not) so we get at least the 10-15 percent of illegal stuff out there - better than 2% by being bad cop).

Still, it's quite a mess.

If you want copyrighted music (i.e. most likely something that everybody knows - a "hit" or "classic"), often the fees are easily done - say a thousand $ or two once for all time/all areas of the globe (another thing you have to determine, i.e. worldwide, only in North America, etc.).  It can be done but of course the copyright folks (almost always the publisher, you never write directly to the composer/artist) get a little testy.  Many of these publishing companies actually have "fast track" web pages, i.e. "pay this amount, use it for this" without even talking to anyone now.  But you're going to have to pay almost certainly.  Period.  (or be illegal).  Chances are original music by some schlep, he might just hand it over (too bad for him!).  But again, it's important to know that even if he doesn't publish his song, he still has copyright ownership of it.   He doesn't have to do anything - it's his property.  Now they highly encourage everyone to publish (get a copyright "by the books") because without it it might be more difficult to prove the original is yours - and people will fight, even unethically, for that ownership (looky at what Mike Jackoff did to McCartney years back!).

I myself own my own publishing company (parent company has a literary and music branch).  I incorporated in 2019.  One good thing is that if it goes through me, I can get it registered in my company with easy terms (which might be zero $ required, but hey, let's talk).  I'm not yet making money in my companies; I established them specifically for this reason - to have somewhere to publish MY stuff w/o paying another company.  Eventually I might take on composers/authors and make money off of it, but that's not why I did it.

I have a really cute Australian entertainment lawyer who does a lot of this for me, and I don't have time the next week or so for this, but call me after that and I can try to help.

As to the music I did, well I was just f-ing around learning GarageBand, I put in on here as kind of a joke.  Still, it's kind of a cool little groove but obviously Billie Jeanish - however I could easily arrange something that would easily hold up in court (i.e. I didn't plagarize Jacko) - and I'm much, much more used to recording now and can play all the instruments pretty well (bass, guitars, keys, and even sax).  But we can discuss the music itself another time.  What I can do is offer my studio for freebies and discuss what, if any, costs would be incurred for my time to compose/mix (again, not saying there would be but I'd have to talk about it).  I'm in the process of "going public" (spotify, Soundcloud, YouTube, yada yada) and will have more on that later this spring.  For now, this is all still kinda private.

t fucking l; dr:  If you want to use some (usually established) other artist's well-known music in ANY way, it'll probably cost ya at least a little; if you want to use a Surly/Shag person/people, with a little innocent write-up (contract) it can proally be done easily.

 

tldr more accurately: pics of Elle Macpherson lawyer pls. 

[Celery Man 20968]

I've been busy and actually haven't thought all that much about this. I don't have much in the way of recording equipment either. Maybe this would snowball better if we had some ballpark idea to work off of. Do we know a general mood/style/genre/etc we'd like to go for? We're looking for 30 seconds to a minute of bump music. Do we want lyrics, and if so do we have any ideas? Or maybe, is there an example of a similar snippet that we can use for inspiration?

re: copyrights and stuff, I bet but don't know that itunes scans stuff for audio fingerprints to check for copyrighted music. We should avoid covering or sampling other music, but if we were to lift a melody from march grandioso or whatever I don't think we need to worry about that.

[immamac 42865]

33 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I've been busy and actually haven't thought all that much about this. I don't have much in the way of recording equipment either. Maybe this would snowball better if we had some ballpark idea to work off of. Do we know a general mood/style/genre/etc we'd like to go for? We're looking for 30 seconds to a minute of bump music. Do we want lyrics, and if so do we have any ideas? Or maybe, is there an example of a similar snippet that we can use for inspiration?

re: copyrights and stuff, I bet but don't know that itunes scans stuff for audio fingerprints to check for copyrighted music. We should avoid covering or sampling other music, but if we were to lift a melody from march grandioso or whatever I don't think we need to worry about that.

Want it to capture the scrappy and counter-culture type attitude that Surly has, but want it to also not take itself super seriously which can be done with the lyrics or the "changeup" after a build/crescendo that feel disjointed and silly.

The bulls on parade mix at the beginning of the cast now captures the general attitude of the first part, but it is obviously a rage song and obviously takes itself too seriously and has no lyrics or anything.

[Celery Man 20968]

I'll try and kick it around a bit,  How are we feeling about the eyes as a melody to reference? Possibly because there was a thread with the title on the old site and i listened to it earlier today and the telecaster next to my desk is in drop d, I'm trying to think of some way to fit a melody from the fight song or school song over a Choctaw Bingo type vibe. If it borrowed from the fight song, the "give'em hell give'em hell, make'em eat shit" student section lyric could be used. 

Again, limited on the recording front and if this hinged on me it would probably fail, but I'm hoping we can get some traction and come up with something cool and surly. So, spitballing.

[immamac 42865]

yes exactly like that. 

[phdhorn 6224]

Couple o' replies:

- Man, Bulls on Parade is a long way from the McMurtry tune, so I'm not sure what the feel is.  I would guess a "bluesy" (McMurtry) riff with lots 'o steroids (Rage)?  Otherwise I'm not sure how that goes down.

- I've Been Working On The Download (pun intended) and looks as if EOT is indeed owned by UT Austin** - that is, the words.  I would imagine the "student traditional PG-rated filler parts" are not under copyright, so those might work.  Otherwise, you're gonna have to write UT to get permission to use the lyrics.  The tune of course is public domain - No one owns "I've Been Working.." anymore, and won't be able to.  So that's safe to use, no problem.

- I'd be willing to talk more about doing the recording/mix, etc. gratis.  I have a little schpiel on this, but I'll save it now until this gets more mature.  Meantime, I'll record some quick, sloppy guitar riffs to see which if any approach the thought.  I know there are 1,203,035 guitarists on Surly and I'll gladly let someone do the heavy guitar lifting if they want, although I could.  I can supply a pretty decent bass, sax, and especially keys (pro keyboardist in the past).  But that's a little later.  Hopefully I can put some stuff on here by tomorrow evening, if I have time.  It won't sound finished, but will give an ide'eer at least.  As for lyrics, I can work them up if no one gets good stuff (I can songwrite pretty well, although these are always a bit tough, trying to "get a feel" for what a patron wants).
 

- If I end up not being needed, great as well... 

===========
** Here's the story behind the copyright of EOT from TSHA web site (https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/eyes-of-texas)

UT students and administration were surprised in the late 1970s to hear that a man living in Oregon was claiming the ownership of the "Eyes of Texas" and collecting on his version of the composition. A former Fort Worth musician, Wylbert Brown, copyrighted the words in 1928 with the hope that the song would become the official state song during the Texas Centennial in 1936. In 1986 Arthur B. Gurwitz, president of Southern Music Company in San Antonio, set out to honor his son, a UT graduate who had died in 1984. Gurwitz negotiated with Brown, then ninety-one, who agreed to assign the copyright to UT Austin, provided he would continue to draw some royalty until his death. He died in February 1987. On November 14, 1987, in a special salute before a football game, UT Austin honored Arthur Gurwitz for securing the copyright of the song for the school.

============

So a guy who didn't actually write the lyrics (Sinclair did in 1902 or 03) copyrighted it in 1928.  Sounds pirate-ish but perfectly legal if no one fought it (and apparently no one did).  So this guy Brown owned the rights to the words until '87 and Southern Music secured it for UT.  Did not know that!  Thought it was public domain as well due to age.

[Celery Man 20968]

Ah cool - didn't know you were working on stuff phd. Definitely Choctaw Bingo is a different thing than Bulls on Parade - it sounds like something up either of those alleys or potentially a different alley altogether could work. Definitely not stepping on your toes if you're brewing up stuff, just feel like the surly guitar mafia and other assorted musicians need to step up to the plate here. Definitely interested to hear what you've got, I'll marinate some more too, hopefully we can start having ideas thrown around and get something good together.

[RGBIII 22840]

I’ve always felt something Bluesy would play well. I’ve always had Texas Flood in my mind for some reason so just be as good as Stevie Ray and it will be good lol. I really like the idea of incorporating the fight song or EOT in some capacity. Hell a blues version of the EOT or something of that sort would be baller

[immamac 42865]

yeah we are on the right track here - basically the "spirit" of bulls on parade is all that was on point. The instrumentation was whatever. I like the idea of an outlaw country/bluegrass/jazzy type of instrumentation. 

I think EOT would be great with some modifications to the lyrics to fit our personality much better. 

[Celery Man 20968]

Messing with this, but I feel like jamming a nursery rhyme melody over that drop d thing gives me something that sounds like a podcast about football and barely making it as a single father in a forgotten part of the country this summer on ABC Family. I'll keep thinking, might need to approach with different inspiration. I encourage other folks to fuck around and find out and post shitty clips or good recordings or whatever you got.

 

[phdhorn 6224]

5 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Ah cool - didn't know you were working on stuff phd. Definitely Choctaw Bingo is a different thing than Bulls on Parade - it sounds like something up either of those alleys or potentially a different alley altogether could work. Definitely not stepping on your toes if you're brewing up stuff, just feel like the surly guitar mafia and other assorted musicians need to step up to the plate here. Definitely interested to hear what you've got, I'll marinate some more too, hopefully we can start having ideas thrown around and get something good together.

That's a neat feel - def Choctawish.  Like its busyness.

I'll bang out a skeletal guitar riff that I have in mind (backed up with a little bass and drums) and you can mess with it hopefully by lunch tomorrow - probably will add a bit of drum booms and a running bass - a raw/clean version, no effects etc. which would of course be great when added.  Shouldn't take long to make a 15-20 sec. mp3.  It's simpler and definitely more towards the Morello power sound.  Hopefully you'll recognize the EOT motif. 

FWIW, most of the old scores have the tune in G, but that really doesn't matter.  I think your little video clip is sorta in D, right?  The riff I've been playing is in E but I'll take it down a step to D.  It can work there, too.  Hopefully I can get all the insts. into a sloppy quick recording tomorrow morning.  You/others/no one can mess widdit.   

 

[Celery Man 20968]

Clip above is in DADGAD tuning (so drop D) but is capo'd on the second fret, so is actually in E, which is the primary chord. My theory sucks when playing guitar in that tuning but I think it's mostly E D and A. And the tuning doesn't matter all that much - the capo was just on the guitar, and the next whack I take at something will probably be in standard tuning.

[phdhorn 6224]

Celery, LOL, I've been running your little clip and I have a damn good idea with it now!  Gonna merge power chords and your strumming thing.  Not sure if it'll be anywhere near the final cut, but after I add some bass and drums, it sure sounds kick ass (well, to me) heh!  Kinda Who-ish, but hell I wanted to work with your clip and I got something.  Whatever the case, I'm laughing - man this worked out sweet.  Hopefully will have it here by lunch tomorrow.  Dirty version w/o much effects.

It kind of incorporated the one idea I had to a point, so I can mix it in.  In any event, it's gonna be cool.

Edited March 11, 2021 by phdhorn

[Celery Man 20968]

Haha cool - if we end up wanting to use some version of that thing, I can record it through an amp or on an acoustic or something. And with a click/at a steady tempo of your choosing, and we can nudge parts (there’s a little bit of variation at the end), extend/shorten/simplify/polish/etc. looking forward to hearing what you’ve got

[immamac 42865]

we used the song above for the intro of this weeks we will showcase improvements!

[RGBIII 22840]

You guys are fucking awesome

[Celery Man 20968]

Just the issue of my mechanicals, and as a card carrying member of ASCAP you can expect to hear from my lawyers

[phdhorn 6224]

Okay, so I stayed up and did this.  Ripped your audio into a half-decent .mp3, added guit, bass, drums, and threw in some preset EQ's and verb.  It's a little sloppy as the rhythm isn't right on (since we didn't use a metronome at first, obviously), and it pretty much falls apart (rhythmically) at the end, but you know what?  It kind of works, and not half-bad for just throwing shit out first try.  Power chords meet acoustic.  

As I said, it's kind of "Who-ey" simply because the chords you played lent itself to that.  But I kind of like the little riff I backed you up with... it gets going nice for like 2 beats, then collapses (lol!).  But you can imagine a lot of fun with this thing.

Even if it doesn't make the cut, it has a nice groove.  Not sure it's "edgy enough" but that can be fixed.  Others are more than welcome to chime in/contribute.  I think we done good for the first go-round.

(Be sure to listen in headphones if you can for the best stereo effect).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t0kflF8Mc0rgRgV34r0nR1u7C8P7_rfp/view?usp=sharing
 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by phdhorn

[RGBIII 22840]

3 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

Okay, so I stayed up and did this.  Ripped your audio into a half-decent .mp3, added guit, bass, drums, and threw in some preset EQ's and verb.  It's a little sloppy as the rhythm isn't right on (since we didn't use a metronome at first, obviously), and it pretty much falls apart (rhythmically) at the end, but you know what?  It kind of works, and not half-bad for just throwing shit out first try.  Power chords meet acoustic.  

As I said, it's kind of "Who-ey" simply because the chords you played lent itself to that.  But I kind of like the little riff I backed you up with... it gets going nice for like 2 beats, then collapses (lol!).  But you can imagine a lot of fun with this thing.

Even if it doesn't make the cut, it has a nice groove.  Not sure it's "edgy enough" but that can be fixed.  Others are more than welcome to chime in/contribute.  I think we done good for the first go-round.

(Be sure to listen in headphones if you can for the best stereo effect).

 

SurlyPod.mp3 959.73 kB · 5 downloads

That shits fucking cool, especially towards the end after the acoustic section leads into the full shit...damn

[PantsTent 2002]

7 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Okay, so I stayed up and did this.  Ripped your audio into a half-decent .mp3, added guit, bass, drums, and threw in some preset EQ's and verb.  It's a little sloppy as the rhythm isn't right on (since we didn't use a metronome at first, obviously), and it pretty much falls apart (rhythmically) at the end, but you know what?  It kind of works, and not half-bad for just throwing shit out first try.  Power chords meet acoustic.  

As I said, it's kind of "Who-ey" simply because the chords you played lent itself to that.  But I kind of like the little riff I backed you up with... it gets going nice for like 2 beats, then collapses (lol!).  But you can imagine a lot of fun with this thing.

Even if it doesn't make the cut, it has a nice groove.  Not sure it's "edgy enough" but that can be fixed.  Others are more than welcome to chime in/contribute.  I think we done good for the first go-round.

(Be sure to listen in headphones if you can for the best stereo effect).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t0kflF8Mc0rgRgV34r0nR1u7C8P7_rfp/view?usp=sharing
 

 

Could end with some kind of "Give 'em hell, Give 'em hell" lyric and then a guitar riff take on the music that comes after that chant along with a drum crescendo or some shit to exclamate it.

[phdhorn 6224]

9 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Just the issue of my mechanicals, and as a card carrying member of ASCAP you can expect to hear from my lawyers

LOL, I will address this down the line - sort of jokingly.  I'm a BM, er BMI guy, sorta kinda.

[Celery Man 20968]

Ah cool cool cool, I like where this is going. Sounds like I need to get a bit better of a recording of that thing, played on an acoustic. You can hear the two tracks separate at the end, which hopefully means that you are recording (or however you're putting together the drums and stuff) to a tempo (because I was definitely rushing and just fucking around) - what tempo are you at?

[phdhorn 6224]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Ah cool cool cool, I like where this is going. Sounds like I need to get a bit better of a recording of that thing, played on an acoustic. You can hear the two tracks separate at the end, which hopefully means that you are recording (or however you're putting together the drums and stuff) to a tempo (because I was definitely rushing and just fucking around) - what tempo are you at?

Hell, for a phone recording (?) it wasn't bad at all!  And I like the thought of acoustic, but I would also consider experimenting with that Tele a bit... it might give you a harder acoustic sound (if that's where it might go).  Point:  you may be right but I wouldn't bail on that yet.

Oh yeah, no problem about just messin' 'round... but I was still tight enough (for a few beats anyway) that i could actually work it into an opening, hell, that pleasantly surprised me.

I think I was (based on you were) somewhere around 126/qtr.  But feel free to mess with it for a few notches.  But it seems a good speed, not too rushed as those things can always be.

If any other guitarist/music expert wants to throw out ideas on the part and/or add some icing to it, please do.

In my head, this part of the "project" is simply the bumper music - the 30-45 secs. that introduce the podcast.  This seems to have a lot of good contrast and (IMHO) once it gets going, gives a nice hook for the listener to enjoy - bridging to the spoken opening.  As a 3-4 minute piece, well there's a lot more to consider there.

One thing I like about this idea is that if (not sure here) this podcast takes breaks (can't remember), your acoustic-ey thing provides a really nice bumper transition back into the show after those breaks.  What's here (and what I did) seems good for the opening and/or closing.  So that acoustic motif will work nicely for any transitions or breaks during the show, as I see it.

As to an entire song, well we'll get to that later .

I'm using Logic Pro to do this, my go-to, so it's Mac only (one thing I don't like about it).  But I've tried most of 'em and Logic just seems for me to be the best - for one thing the recording input levels are much better to me than other apps - and the onboard drums are killer compared to anything in other apps - and they're free obviously (not a plug-in).  However, I have Studio One if it gets to where people need a PC/Windows based app.

I won't have time to get to this again until maybe Saturday but I think it's off to a good start, at least as one option, no? 

Again, this is collaborative as I see it, so anyone out there don't back off just because Celery and I got moving a little!

[Celery Man 20968]

I haven't messed around with it a bunch but I'm hoping there's a nice way to capture audio from a Boss Katana other than sit a cell phone in front of it (I'm sure there is, but my hope hope is that I can connect a laptop by USB and just get the audio). Either way - rad. We got ourselves a snowball rolling. I'll be thinking about this, will end up getting a few different takes on that thing above with different feels. Great work phd. And echoing his sentiment - other folks diving in would be cool.

 

Anyone play slide guitar?

[DaggerHorns 3085]

18 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Okay, so I stayed up and did this.  Ripped your audio into a half-decent .mp3, added guit, bass, drums, and threw in some preset EQ's and verb.  It's a little sloppy as the rhythm isn't right on (since we didn't use a metronome at first, obviously), and it pretty much falls apart (rhythmically) at the end, but you know what?  It kind of works, and not half-bad for just throwing shit out first try.  Power chords meet acoustic.  

As I said, it's kind of "Who-ey" simply because the chords you played lent itself to that.  But I kind of like the little riff I backed you up with... it gets going nice for like 2 beats, then collapses (lol!).  But you can imagine a lot of fun with this thing.

Even if it doesn't make the cut, it has a nice groove.  Not sure it's "edgy enough" but that can be fixed.  Others are more than welcome to chime in/contribute.  I think we done good for the first go-round.

(Be sure to listen in headphones if you can for the best stereo effect).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t0kflF8Mc0rgRgV34r0nR1u7C8P7_rfp/view?usp=sharing
 

 

I really like this. Just a tinge more ‘pregnant lady in a headlock’ and we’ve got it.

[tbone_ 14128]

Needs more cowbell

[Celery Man 20968]

true story - that guy invested some money in one of my band's records. His bassist lived across the street and I think they knew our manager through whatever Austin music things. Unrelated to shaggy, didn't recoup presumably. Thanks buddy, miss you!

[phdhorn 6224]

49 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Needs more cowbell

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AH0iC0LpkGZukdxo3cp_mlWbT7Kv2k1x/view?usp=sharing (starts at 0:26 if you want to skip ahead)

So, whaddya have to offer?

Edited March 12, 2021 by phdhorn

[tbone_ 14128]

Holy shit it sure does. Heard it on my head phones this time.

I was just being a smart ass anyway. That’s actually cool af.

[immamac 42865]

The intro to the podcast is from our first pass resident musicians. We were done recording by the time phdhorn put out the google drive link to the other and had already recorded with the premise that @Celery Man's first pass was gonna be the intro.

Next week we'll show the evolution of the song! so exciting. I'm gonna restick this thread now that it's not just a bunch of memers 

[phdhorn 6224]

See next ↓

Edit:  So you guys have the song?  Confusion sets in.



 

Edited March 12, 2021 by phdhorn

[phdhorn 6224]

8 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Holy shit it sure does. Heard it on my head phones this time.

I was just being a smart ass anyway. That’s actually cool af.

Oh sure no problem.  I actually enjoyed throwing the "more cowbell: in there! 
(LOL, it's so bad it's good, almost considered leaving it).

[Celery Man 20968]

Sounds like they had already put together this week's podcast with my shitty youtube audio by the time you had the next version put together phd. I'll try and get a couple different takes of that with slightly more production value (slightly) and more consistent rhythm together tonight - I'm not sure if you're working on something where new audio for my guitar part would fuck up your progress, but I'll screw around and leave it up to you as our producer. Need to go listen to your version again but I could maybe incorporate some of the rhythm elements you're putting in at the end.

When demoing/writing songs, there's a concept that you should never make rough recordings sound particularly good out of fear of demoitis - you listen to the demo over and over again to the point where you prefer it to the fully produced track or get stuck trying to recreate the demo. lol bit me in the ass there with my unplugged telecaster iphone recording

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

Sounds like they had already put together this week's podcast with my shitty youtube audio by the time you had the next version put together phd. I'll try and get a couple different takes of that with slightly more production value (slightly) and more consistent rhythm together tonight - I'm not sure if you're working on something where new audio for my guitar part would fuck up your progress, but I'll screw around and leave it up to you as our producer. Need to go listen to your version again but I could maybe incorporate some of the rhythm elements you're putting in at the end.

When demoing/writing songs, there's a concept that you should never make rough recordings sound particularly good out of fear of demoitis - you listen to the demo over and over again to the point where you prefer it to the fully produced track or get stuck trying to recreate the demo. lol bit me in the ass there with my unplugged telecaster iphone recording

Ah, thanks.

Hey man, again, your little thing was pretty damn good, especially as a casual throw-out!  Wasn't supposed to be crack, just an idea.  Yet that idea was done well enough that I could even use it in a mix!  

And my mix was equally casual - again in the idea stage.  It's nowhere near a final thought (though actually it was better than I thought I could whip up in a short time).  To echo the other day, I'll look more at it Saturday.  I haven't thought much more about it (other than to add the cowbell in fun!).

I think it's getting close to being the finished idea (not product) for the bumper stuff.  But whether/how to make it into a full song, yeah, that would be a next step.  I have some bridge/"alternate" section(s) ideas (kind of along the lines of the Police's Message in a Bottle (esp. the "SOS" chord progression) but that's getting a little ahead, especially if the idea is to stay as true to the EOT as possible.  But we'll see.

Anyway, more on that later.  

Oh yeah, I get your "demoitis" thing. I spent months one time trying to duplicate the "innocence and feel" of a throwout demo.  Never could.  Who'da thunk music could be so finicky?  But that could also be your being hyperfocused (i.e. my zit feels/looks like Mt. Everest but people in reality barely notice it).  Etc.

Later!

Edited March 12, 2021 by phdhorn

[RGBIII 22840]

This shit is cool as fuck to watch

[Celery Man 20968]

another take - I overestimated my ability to use a visual click track, as well as the iphone's ability to capture the sound from an acoustic guitar. but this might be a bit better than the previous one and hopefully it's somewhat rhythmically consistent. I still might fuck around with the katana and actually listening to a metronome

 

[phdhorn 6224]

Okay, thanks!  I'll try and work w/this later this afternoon.

- Just gave it a casual listen, and yeah it's really nice again!  That's a great little motif you came up with.
- And of course it's deeper and has a lot of body, being acoustic.  But y'know, I also like the trebly twang of the Tele; 
- I think the pattern's a bit different here (more D-A-E breaks, e.g.) and maybe an additional EOT line from the first one; 

-so-

I have a few options here.  What I think I'm actually gonna try to do first (if ok w/you) is to chop up a little and match this new audio to the first one.  I think a blend of the Tele and the acoustic would be awesome!  I don't think I'll do it in stereo, I'd like the sound to blend together, but I'll at least try a slight pan so they "bleed" into each other.  Maybe do a version of each, I dunno.

Also, what I like about the first go-round (all insts.) is the opening power salvo, then it gets right into the acoustic thing, then picks up quickly again to the mix (power/acoustic).  So I'm gonna try (I think) and line up your stuff with that.  A bit of slicing, but even with the rhythmic difference, I can pretty well line stuff up through cut/paste slicing and it will still sound really good - the rhythm on all insts. will sync up and you'll never know it didn't.  I think that can be done here.

As to the mix, I'm going to bring down the power guitar a little (too loud in comparison), and bring up the acoustics and the drums - the drums are WAY too low but the other insts. were so far up near the red that if I cranked the drums, they'd overload and distort.  So this mix will make them bigger and more prevalent.  Also same with the bass.  Then I'll try to tweak the EQ's and reverbs a bit and I think it'll sound plenty good enough for the radio.

I'll also try to add some keys and see if they work or muck up things.  I have some good ideas there (being a keyboardist, I'd better have!). But I don't want to overstuff this mix, so if it isn't clear and a nice contrast, I won't add any other insts.

(I'll keep/not overwrite the first go-round /mp3 mix so we can have it for comparision/evolution purposes; but I'm going to overwrite the DAW work (.avi) unless there's a good reaso to keep it (I rarely do when I'm going thru a project's iterations).

Sounds like a lot, but the excerpt isn't that long so I wouldn't imagine more than an hour or two to do all this.  If not I'll get back here.

Hopefully later today this thing will kick total ass.  My homeys around me really like it.  My son said without knowing what it was for, "man that sound like ESPN music or something."  Which I guess is sort of what the idea is?  We'll see how it goes.

Thx for the new submission!  Onward and skyward (or some bogus similar motto).
 

Edited March 13, 2021 by phdhorn

[Celery Man 20968]

Yeah, I was hoping that I'd get a bit more of a full acoustic sound, but the audio capture isn't incredible and that one is a little distorted as well from being loud and close. Either way - I'm cool with you using that and/or the previous one however you see fit, and if you want something that isn't there I can do my best to provide it. If you're banging your head against the wall trying to get things to line up, I can also try again - I'm playing guitar in the attic while my pregnant wife sleeps with her little dog downstairs. He barks like an asshole when I venture down, and last night I didn't have any headphones up there and so was trying to maintain tempo by watching a fucking youtube video. I have headphones and can listen to a click if I bring them up with me and get something that might be easier to splice around. I can also try and get some "amplified" sounds if we'd like.

 

tl;dr - you're the producer, use what you want how you want, let me know what you need, I can get more consistent takes if it's hard to line things up, and I can get some different sounds if you'd like some different sounds. Or different parts (or adjusted parts) if you can describe a bit what you're going for.

[immamac 42865]

Anyone on the board sing or rap? I'm pretty sure I can write lyrics, but I can only scream, can't do singing. 

[Celery Man 20968]

cc: @shadow_operative

@tbone_ is posting some nice recordings from his duo in the guitar pron thread. We should make him get his lady friend to do it. If we can get like a tik tok of him explaining what it's for  (and... what does this "naoch" lyric reference and how do you even pronounce...) that could also make for good content