Taylor Sheridan’s “Without Remorse”

[TexArcher 37,770]

On 3/9/2021 at 2:34 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Give it to the people who did FX's The Americans.

Fuck yes.

The Cardinal of the Kremlin and Red Storm Rising, please.

[mdmost 43,001]

On 3/29/2021 at 8:58 AM, mdmost said:

This thread inspired me to pick up a copy of this when we were at Half Price Books on Saturday. Not sure why I never got around to this one as I got through most of the Jack Ryan series up to The Bear and the Dragon. Couple chapters in and enjoying it so far. 

I knocked this out in 6 days. Loved it. Not sure why I never picked it up before as I read all the rest. Maybe my dad didn’t have it as I got most of the other books from him. 
 

Definitely going to start watching The Americans after reading this. The section with the Foleys and the courier chain was great. The part with interrogation scene had me clenching up as that sounded terrifying.

[DDD Dad 14,327]

7 hours ago, mdmost said:

I knocked this out in 6 days. Loved it. Not sure why I never picked it up before as I read all the rest. Maybe my dad didn’t have it as I got most of the other books from him. 
 

Definitely going to start watching The Americans after reading this. The section with the Foleys and the courier chain was great. The part with interrogation scene had me clenching up as that sounded terrifying.

Avatar checks out. 
 

[naija 2,854]

It sure riled up a particular crowd. A lot of one star reviews up a mere couple of hours after release going on about wokeness and PC. Who could have seen that coming.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Watched it last night. Action was good. Acting was average. 

 

They probably should have stayed away from tying it to the book. They could have made the same movie without it. I was expecting something different.

[RPM 26,318]

2 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Watched it last night. Action was good. Acting was average. 

 

They probably should have stayed away from tying it to the book. They could have made the same movie without it. I was expecting something different.

Pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm not a MBJ fan to begin with so it had an uphill battle.

[Spoetzl 181]

Laughably bad.  A complete missed opportunity.

[naija 2,854]

had to double check that Taylor Sheridan was involved with this. With the sequel to Sicario and now this, that's two bad outputs in a row. strange all around, given that the novel is actually not that difficult to update to the present. the betrayed-by-intelligence-services-military-vet has to be about as plain of a story that could be written and its just lazy to have gone that route. Saying the acting was average is generous. I like Michael B. Jordan but he's got one trick at this point and it's not a very good one. Tom Clancy was lending (selling) his name to whatever project came calling even before he passed. Seems like his estate is continuing that run. 

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

10 minutes ago, naija said:

had to double check that Taylor Sheridan was involved with this. With the sequel to Sicario and now this, that's two bad outputs in a row. strange all around, given that the novel is actually not that difficult to update to the present. the betrayed-by-intelligence-services-military-vet has to be about as plain of a story that could be written and its just lazy to have gone that route. Saying the acting was average is generous. I like Michael B. Jordan but he's got one trick at this point and it's not a very good one. Tom Clancy was lending (selling) his name to whatever project came calling even before he passed. Seems like his estate is continuing that run. 

The most confusing thing is they could have created a fairly cohesive Clancyverse.  Shit, that's basically what Clancy and his ghost writers were doing.

Instead, we get these two shows that are not tied to each other (Jack Ryan S3 coming out later this year) for the time being.

Nothing against MBJ, I know he's a hot action star right now, but we should have had the Jack Ryan (Jr) series, and then we find out Matice's actual name is John Clark, and they give us a Without Remorse series with the actor behind Matice, set a few years back, and then we jump back to Jack Ryan, where Jim Greer has been booted up a level or two (he should have started out higher to begin with) and has a lot more pull.

There was nothing absolutely difficult about any of this. Clancy laid all of this shit out decades ago.

They really fucking botched all of this.  John Hoogenakker as Matice would have been an awesome John Clark, and it really should have been a Jack Ryan Jr series, allowing it to be tied a little more to the movies.

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

And while I don't know if I will watch more than an episode of Without Remorse

Spoiler

I'm aware that the last episode is setting up a Rainbow 6 movie or series.  Still doesn't excuse them not leveraging all of these assets together. 

 

[naija 2,854]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And while I don't know if I will watch more than an episode of Without Remorse

  Hide contents

I'm aware that the last episode is setting up a Rainbow 6 movie or series.  Still doesn't excuse them not leveraging all of these assets together. 

 

episode? it's a movie.

[GreenspointTexas 9,598]

3 hours ago, naija said:

had to double check that Taylor Sheridan was involved with this. With the sequel to Sicario and now this, that's two bad outputs in a row. strange all around, given that the novel is actually not that difficult to update to the present. the betrayed-by-intelligence-services-military-vet has to be about as plain of a story that could be written and its just lazy to have gone that route. Saying the acting was average is generous. I like Michael B. Jordan but he's got one trick at this point and it's not a very good one. Tom Clancy was lending (selling) his name to whatever project came calling even before he passed. Seems like his estate is continuing that run. 

He wrote both Sicario 2 (and Sicario 1) and Without Remorse

 

However, he didnt direct both. Both were directed by Stefano Sollima

[AUS-97HORN 11,757]

i thought it was meh.

not a huge fan of the random wokeness.   but I guess we are going to get more of that in the next few years, oh well.

 

I also understand movies cant film something in complete darkness cause, duh, visuals..

but the item that actually irked me the most was the very beginning where the helicopter takes the team away from a known hostile zone.... fully lit up with all its fucking navigation lights on! 

 a big red and green blinking light telling all the fucking bad guys- hey its pitch fucking black- but here we are. I mean come on, how was that missed during filming?    Im not complaining about the interior scenes being filmed in red light. i get it, we have to see the characters.  but letting the nav lights stay on when they filmed the external shots irked me way more than it should have , because its just a fucking movie

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

4 hours ago, naija said:

episode? it's a movie.

Sorry, I mean I don't think I'll watch more than one MBJ movie in the Without Remorsiverse or whatever if the same people are involved.

There isn't even a R6 movie or series currently in active production (COVID fucked up the WR filming and distribution which is how Amazon got it and kept it out of theaters), and some of the few principals originally listed (outside of MBJ) as being involved had moved on to other projects.  

I saw an article about them considering spinning R6 off into a TV series tied to the Jack Ryan series instead of film if Amazon was running it, because Amazon acquired the WR film before it was even finished. I actually can't find if Amazon acquired the R6 rights when they got the WR bistro rights last summer.

But the same article said MBJ didn't want to be tied down to a TV series.

Edit: There is a chance Amazon could still take over the R6 project, since it's not even in production, but as of now there is nothing.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[Post Oak 20,209]

Well I'm disappointed to hear the reviews.  I'll still give it a shot.  

[CooterBrown 18,004]

Just watched it. I don’t get the hate. It’s a straight ahead action film with a well worn premise. The action was good. While it’s not a game changer, I don’t regret watching it at all. I was entertained.

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL? Who gives a fuck. Go jerk off to your Guns and Ammo mag.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

36 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Just watched it. I don’t get the hate. It’s a straight ahead action film with a well worn premise. The action was good. While it’s not a game changer, I don’t regret watching it at all. I was entertained.

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL? Who gives a fuck. Go jerk off to your Guns and Ammo mag.

LOL. Nobody reads Guns and Ammo anymore, ding dong. We just watch Hickock45's youtube channel.

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Just watched it. I don’t get the hate. It’s a straight ahead action film with a well worn premise. The action was good. While it’s not a game changer, I don’t regret watching it at all. I was entertained.

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL? Who gives a fuck. Go jerk off to your Guns and Ammo mag.

I thought it was a mediocre action movie at best. Would rather have not wasted my time.
 

Yeah, I’m not sure what is apparently getting all the micro-peens upset. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,792]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Just watched it. I don’t get the hate. It’s a straight ahead action film with a well worn premise. The action was good. While it’s not a game changer, I don’t regret watching it at all. I was entertained.

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL? Who gives a fuck. Go jerk off to your Guns and Ammo mag.

Agreed, plus I'll always have a soft spot for Michael B Jordan ever since he revived Coach Taylor's career at East Dillon 

[Archer 474]

Watched it tonight. I had been super excited but saw the early reviews and was concerned. It was an acceptable action flick but they shouldn’t have played off of the WR title. It was so far from the book that I was mildly disinterested. 
 

I really wanted to see the decompression chamber scene on film. 

[utxmike05 1,828]

I liked it. Standard plot. Predictable. But good execution for the most part.

I’m a sucker for all these movies.  Has a lot to live up to if it wants to compete w Jack Ryan series on Prime 

After credits scene got my excite. 
 

Spoiler

🌈 6

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by utxmike05

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL? 

I'm sure it's some of that, but it also really diverged from one of Clancy's best books, and, going by my brother-in-law's dad, a lot of older people were confused about why it wasn't tied into the current TV stuff, and how could it be tied into the Clancy movies when it wasn't set in Vietnam and MBJ was too young (Liev Schreiber was probably younger than MBJ when he played John Clark).  

And casting doesn't mean shit at this point - We've had Alex Baldwin, Harrison Ford, Ben Affleck, and Chris Pine play Jack Ryan in the movies, and only Ford played him more than once.

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

1 hour ago, utxmike05 said:

After credits scene got my excite. 

You better pump a lot of sunshine, and get everybody you know to watch it and rate it well.  MBJ is being cagey about if R6 will happen in any format

https://www.ign.com/articles/michael-b-jordan-explains-why-without-remorse-is-ignoring-the-rainbow-six-games-for-now

Quote

"Oh, man! See, to be perfectly honest, I haven't thought about it. Just I haven't. One of the hard things as a creative, to do when you're making a movie that could potentially be another one, is to start thinking about the second one while you're still finishing the first one. So I think, just really trying to focus on the movie as a standalone, and hopefully it's strong enough to hold its own weight, that people will want to see what Kelly wants to do in the future." Jordan concluded.

 

[futureman 22,444]

so I have never read any Clancy novels but am a huge fan of the movies

Spoiler

so robert ritter in this movie is the same character as ritter in clear and present danger? and is john kelly the same john clark (willem dafoe) in c&pd

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by futureman

[RPM 26,318]

8 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

but the item that actually irked me the most was the very beginning where the helicopter takes the team away from a known hostile zone.... fully lit up with all its fucking navigation lights on! 

 a big red and green blinking light telling all the fucking bad guys- hey its pitch fucking black- but here we are. I mean come on, how was that missed during filming?    Im not complaining about the interior scenes being filmed in red light. i get it, we have to see the characters.  but letting the nav lights stay on when they filmed the external shots irked me way more than it should have , because its just a fucking movie

There were so many errors like that all through the movie. One that screamed out to me was the airliner cargo door. When they are loading it's a top hinge swing open door. When they are about to jump it suddenly becomes a sliding door. 

[futureman 22,444]

10 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Also, are all the small dick bad reviews because there’s a female SEAL?

I think most of the bad reviews are from film buffs who are offended by that girl’s complete and utter inability to act. it’s like they grabbed a woman off the street and fed her lines. who the hell is that “actress”?

[A-Tex Devil 2,446]

Watched it. It was fine for a late Friday night movie.  The script wasn’t good.  That was surprising.  Some really cheese ball lines, particularly delivered by MBJ    

Those complaining about wokeness here and on the incel movie review circuit get a big eye roll from me. None of that bothered me in the least.   

While I doubt they link this to the Jack Ryan Series with Krasinski, I don’t think they’ve eliminated that possibility or created any serious continuity issues if they wanted to do it.

 

 

 

[Hornbeliever 712]

Agreed.  Not great.  Not awful.  Worth my time but not going to run to watch it again, ever.   And I've sadly watched Jack reacher 11 times.

Also, not that woke besides one female officer.   Expected more after reading some comments, like gay and tranny soldiers winning and being fabulous.    

Edited May 1, 2021 by Hornbeliever

[futureman 22,444]

24 minutes ago, Hornbeliever said:

Also, not that woke besides one female officer.

female SEAL, but whatever. movies aren’t real. not a big deal. 

[F250 28,764]

Just finished the movie and it was warmed over dog shit.

 

[F250 28,764]

21 hours ago, futureman said:

so I have never read any Clancy novels but am a huge fan of the movies

  Hide contents

so robert ritter in this movie is the same character as ritter in clear and present danger? and is john kelly the same john clark (willem dafoe) in c&pd

 

Yes to both. Ritter is portrayed as a political bad guy in Clear and Present Danger and they make it seem like he is the same in WR. Actually WR's portrayal of Ritter is closer to the books.

Dafoe was a terrible Clark too. Both MBJ and Dafoe were bad interpretations of Clark.

Edited May 2, 2021 by F250

[Hozz 1,017]

Haven't read the book, was not expecting much from a Michael B Jordan movie.  That said, we didn't hate it and it was an easy watch.  Bald female Navy SEAL was strange.

[boilerhorn 1,375]

Prior to its release, I paid zero attention to anything about this other than the name and Clancy affiliation.  So, I recently reread Without Remorse (actually 2x speed audio book while I did my daily walks) in anticipation of this.

While watching, I kept searching for the 1.5x speed option on Amazon video. Does it exist?  Writing was mediocre.  Acting was mediocre.  Action was OK.  They just borrowed a few names from WR and had some very loose ties to family deaths, CIA, Russians, etc.  The writing does set up some possible derivative works, but they killed off the most talented cast member (Guy Pearce), acting-wise.  However, quality acting is not really needed to carry an action series.

A "true" portrayal of WR would require a considerably different investment and Vietnam-era storylines won't move the needle these days.  I'm confused why Amazon - or the producers - felt the need for the additional expense for the affiliation to Clancy/WR for this.  I guess a loose tie to the Clancy-verse helps with the 35+ demographic.  

 

[F250 28,764]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:47 AM, futureman said:

I think most of the bad reviews are from film buffs who are offended by that girl’s complete and utter inability to act. it’s like they grabbed a woman off the street and fed her lines. who the hell is that “actress”?

This. She was so flat without any presence while portraying a Naval officer that leads a SEAL team. It just didn't work at all. They even threw in the relation to admiral Greer thing which made it worse from the book perspective.

Terrible casting and directing.

 

[futureman 22,444]

I’m a little surprised because I thought Sicario 2 was somewhat entertaining. I guess that’s the difference between brolin/del toro and MBJ/bald girl. 

[RPM 26,318]

18 minutes ago, futureman said:

I thought Sicario 2 was somewhat entertaining.

If you don't count all the continuity errors and plot holes...

[Parliament 14,247]

Sicario 1 had them too.  So what.  Awesome movie.

[RPM 26,318]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:03 PM, Doc Sam Beckett said:

I'll always have a soft spot for Michael B Jordan ever since he revived Coach Taylor's career at East Dillon 

I'll hate him because he ruined the series.

[usmc0331horn 953]

I thought it was fine. It was like a bizarro version of Hard to Kill and Under Siege but with a worse plot and even worse acting.

[Buzzrock 14,903]

I liked how they all went for a swim in the Arctic Ocean like it was no big deal.

[Parliament 14,247]

This movie sucks too much to complain about.  The wokeness, MBJ's acting, garbled plot, totally unrelated to the book.  Whatever.  Taylor Sheridan may have lost his mojo.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

The movie was meh. Action was okay. Tom Clancy novels and movies have weight. This did not. I don’t get the wokeness criticism. Did I miss something?

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The movie was meh. Action was okay. Tom Clancy novels and movies have weight. This did not. I don’t get the wokeness criticism. Did I miss something?

The people complaining that it's "woke" are missing the bigger problem that the movie has fuck-all to do with the novel.

You have a guy named John Kelly/Clark, his pregnant wife was killed, there was some Russians, and "Rainbow" and an elite multinational taskforce were the only connections to the Clancy novel.  That's it.

8 hours ago, F250 said:

 They even threw in the relation to admiral Greer thing which made it worse from the book perspective.\

They apparently weren't allowed to touch a lot of characters that are currently being used in the Amazon TV series.  Like Spiderman and the MCU.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

11 hours ago, boilerhorn said:

A "true" portrayal of WR would require a considerably different investment and Vietnam-era storylines won't move the needle these days.  I'm confused why Amazon - or the producers - felt the need for the additional expense for the affiliation to Clancy/WR for this.  I guess a loose tie to the Clancy-verse helps with the 35+ demographic.  

Amazon didn't make it.  That's the problem with all of this.  Amazon is making the Jack Ryan series, but they bought the rights to WR back in July, after filming was already well underway.

The makers of the movie could have easily moved the Vietnam story into Afghanistan.  Very easily.  Drug cartels are an even bigger thing now than when Clancy was writing WR.

It would be fan-fucking-tastic if Amazon got the Rainbow 6 rights when they bought WR, and could make it into a TV series, but they'd have to get MBJ onboard with a TV series.

 

[F250 28,764]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They apparently weren't allowed to touch a lot of characters that are currently being used in the Amazon TV series.  Like Spiderman and the MCU.

 

I didn't know that but that just makes it confusing because they were both Amazon releases. I watched this under the assumption that it was set in the Jack Ryan universe.

 

[tx 3 putt 76,874]

not sure what this movie had to do with the book but it was watchable. i would love to see a Rainbow6 series 

[Gene Parmesan 4,003]

I thought it was pretty cookie cutter special forces action movie.  I wasn't really thinking wokeness with Greer.  Her character was just boring.  All of them were.  There was no good dialogue like you expect with Sheridan either.

[MissingInAction 25,019]

Terrible. Couldn't even finish it.

[utxmike05 1,828]

On 4/30/2021 at 7:58 PM, Post Oak said:

Well I'm disappointed to hear the reviews.  I'll still give it a shot.  

Give it a shot.  Always take movie reviews based on books with grain of salt.....and reviews here in Surly.

Saw it again with the old man.  Good rewatch-ability. 

Dialogue was pretty weak as said above, and I don't usually look for that in a movie like this...however it did stand out.  

[aggie08 21,492]

17 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I don’t get the wokeness criticism. Did I miss something?

There was a woman in it. She was black too. That's, like, quadruple the pandering.