The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

59 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

the source is there.  you can work out the numbers yourself.

if you want to make bombastic claims, you have the burden to prove those claims. 

especially if they are of the binary quantifiable types - like "police murder minorities for sport".  where you have a rate of 0.036 annual non-white unarmed fatal shooting by cop per 100k, thats significant sporting activity?

if you want to highlight US police killing civilations at 3.5x the rate of Canada and 4x the rate of Australia.....but forget to mention US civilians commit intentional homicide at 5x the rate of Canada and Australia... i.e. more encounters with violent and armed society. 

not substantiating your claims with complete facts is evidence of laziness or stupidity.  knowing who is making those claims, the reason is both.

Really?  How do I quantify shithead?   They’re shitheads.  That’s it.  Fuck cops and those who carry their water.  Their entire system is based on cover up, then if that goes bad the FOP is there to bail em out.  So in conclusion, fuck cops.  

[Sawbonz 27565]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

the source is there.  you can work out the numbers yourself.

I’ll take that to mean it doesn’t fit your premise

[Sawbonz 27565]

Oh. 
 

black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

[52-80 19159]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Oh. 
 

black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Congrats on the leg work. 83% of their 812 cases over 4 years were armed (which showed 0 racial preference, as above posts). 
 

That leaves 35 unarmed cases per year, with apparent race-based % disparity. Do you want to comment on the statistical significance of that in a country of 330M?  Is this evidence sufficient for a charge of racism against 700,000 active officers?  (Nevermind the specifics of each incident which could be examined given there ain’t too many left...)

 

Theres definitely some reckless trigger happy fuckheads in blue, we see this from cases against blacks, whites, Indians, Latinos, Oscar grant, that amber bitch in Dallas, a few in New Mexico.  
 

If 80% if people who are shot were armed, maybe being armed is the first order determinant of getting shot....not for being xxx color. 

[Sawbonz 27565]

Probably very comforting for the families of those unarmed people who are about 1.6 times more likely to be killed because they are black

[52-80 19159]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Probably very comforting for the families of those unarmed people who are about 1.6 times more likely to be killed because they are black

If you’re an Asian person in a massage parlor in Georgia, you’re 3 times more likely to be killed than if you were Mexican.

It’s very comforting for Mexicans who happen to be in massage parlors, and is alarming for Asians in massage parlors. 

[Sawbonz 27565]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

If you’re an Asian person in a massage parlor in Georgia, you’re 3 times more likely to be killed than if you were Mexican.

It’s very comforting for Mexicans who happen to be in massage parlors, and is alarming for Asians in massage parlors. 

Do you think cops should be held to a higher standard than random murderous psychos?

[52-80 19159]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you think cops should be held to a higher standard than random murderous psychos?

Cops should be held to the same laws as everyone else.  

The psychopath that shot up the parlor and the psychopath that kneed Floyd should both be prosecuted for murder. 

What’s your point?

 

[Hawndoh 2386]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

If 80% if people who are shot were armed, maybe being armed is the first order determinant of getting shot....not for being xxx color. 

But every conceal carry idiot I've ever talked to has told me that once  everyone was armed there would be no more crime.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Hawndoh

[Brothahorn 10087]

21 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

But every conceal carry idiot I've ever talked to has told me that once  everyone was armed there would be no more crime.

I hope that's a lil bit of hype. If not you need to expand your social circle. 

[Sawbonz 27565]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Cops should be held to the same laws as everyone else.  

We entrust cops with a shitload more power than everyone else. They should be held to a much higher standard. If they don’t like it they can find another fucking job

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Cops should be held to the same laws as everyone else.  

The psychopath that shot up the parlor and the psychopath that kneed Floyd should both be prosecuted for murder. 

What’s your point?

 

There is a difference between being subject to the same laws for breaking them and being held to a higher standard when charged with enforcing them

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Congrats on the leg work. 83% of their 812 cases over 4 years were armed (which showed 0 racial preference, as above posts). 
 

That leaves 35 unarmed cases per year, with apparent race-based % disparity. Do you want to comment on the statistical significance of that in a country of 330M?  Is this evidence sufficient for a charge of racism against 700,000 active officers?  (Nevermind the specifics of each incident which could be examined given there ain’t too many left...)

 

Theres definitely some reckless trigger happy fuckheads in blue, we see this from cases against blacks, whites, Indians, Latinos, Oscar grant, that amber bitch in Dallas, a few in New Mexico.  
 

If 80% if people who are shot were armed, maybe being armed is the first order determinant of getting shot....not for being xxx color. 

We’re they all armed, or were they “armed?”

[52-80 19159]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

We entrust cops with a shitload more power than everyone else. They should be held to a much higher standard. If they don’t like it they can find another fucking job

 

And ?  That’s a nice sounding platitude and all but if we’re talking in earnest rather than gaming social media likes, what do you actually propose?  Double sentencing against cops? Send them through more sensitivity training? Take away their guns until levels of seniority? 

[Captainant 27676]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

And ?  That’s a nice sounding platitude and all but if we’re talking in earnest rather than gaming social media likes, what do you actually propose?  Double sentencing against cops? Send them through more sensitivity training? Take away their guns until levels of seniority? 

Take away, or significantly limit sovereign immunity for a start. The legal precedent for what a cop has to merely claim to be justified in ending a life is ridiculously generous. To the point where there's an entire cottage industry of "warrior cop" trainings on how to get away with it

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

But every conceal carry idiot I've ever talked to has told me that once  everyone was armed there would be no more crime.

You need to meet more people.

Nobody claims that.  Not the way you wrote it.  But hey, it sounds good on a message board.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

We entrust cops with a shitload more power than everyone else. They should be held to a much higher standard. If they don’t like it they can find another fucking job

 

This is correct.

Citizens are held to a higher standard if a crime against cops is committed( with which I agree.) A higher standard should be applied when cops commit crimes against citizens.

[Sawbonz 27565]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

And ?  That’s a nice sounding platitude and all but if we’re talking in earnest rather than gaming social media likes, what do you actually propose?  Double sentencing against cops? Send them through more sensitivity training? Take away their guns until levels of seniority? 

Take the settlements out of their pension funds.

Have more stringent penalties for use of unnecessary force. Most of the cops involved in these fatalities have a history of complaints. 

Bar cops fired for brutality from ever working as cops in any jurisdictions

Or just tell black folks to do their best never to encounter a cop
 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

If you did #1, it might build the. Our walk of silence even higher and thicker as an unintended consequence. No problems with the rest (humor understood). 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Take the settlements out of their pension funds.

Have more stringent penalties for use of unnecessary force. Most of the cops involved in these fatalities have a history of complaints. 

Bar cops fired for brutality from ever working as cops in any jurisdictions

Or just tell black folks to do their best never to encounter a cop
 

 

Fire their bosses for lack of institutional control when patterns arise.

Until then, it ain't changin.  Art Acevedo should be unemployed at the very least for the Houston Five shootings.  He  could reasonably be sentenced for conspiracy to commit murder; instead, he's taking his talents to Miami.   It's insane.

As long as these crimes are treated as one-offs, the behavior will never change.

Edited April 4, 2021 by slorch

[UT_OB1 2223]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you did #1, it might build the. Our walk of silence even higher and thicker as an unintended consequence. No problems with the rest (humor understood). 

Quadruple the penalty if is discovered someone with evidence didn’t step forward. 10x if anyone in the department attempted to cover it up, plus mandatory minimum of 10 years of prison for this involved in cover up. 

[atomheartbevo 89675]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

And ?  That’s a nice sounding platitude and all but if we’re talking in earnest rather than gaming social media likes, what do you actually propose?  Double sentencing against cops? Send them through more sensitivity training? Take away their guns until levels of seniority? 

You know what doesn't work? Putting the taxpayers on the hook for millions of dollars when a cop murders or maims somebody. That's like a kid doing something bad, and so you punish a bunch of other kids who had nothing to do with it.  All that does is embolden the bad kid to keep doing bad shit.

Stop training cops to think they are some kind of occupying force, and stop arming/equipping them like they are about to head out on patrol in Afghanistan. This creates the wrong kind of mentality.  They are supposed to serve and protect, and too many of them have forgotten that.

Remind them that they work for the taxpayers, and that we pay their fucking salaries, and we also pay millions out when they deliberately murder or maim somebody. 

Fire their supervisors if there are institutional problems.

Vote out mayors/city councils when the police departments have a problem, and stop letting the police unions have influence over politicians.  Stop making politicians reluctant to go against the police when policies need to be changed.

I have never ever fucking understood how the police unions are allowed to exert so much power over elected officials, who decide on their salaries, their jobs, their policies, etc. and the unions can threaten to withhold their endorsements and get them booted out of office if they don't do what the union wants.

If I had to pick one thing, knock the power of the police unions down several notches.  Start there. Work on going after pensions if the cops are found to deliberately murder somebody.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

And ?  That’s a nice sounding platitude and all but if we’re talking in earnest rather than gaming social media likes, what do you actually propose?  Double sentencing against cops? Send them through more sensitivity training? Take away their guns until levels of seniority? 

Lol.  You’re just trolling at this point.  Whatever can we do?!?!  Obviously nothing. 

[Jkwellborn 6702]

I have never ever fucking understood how the police unions are allowed to exert so much power over elected officials, who decide on their salaries, their jobs, their policies, etc. and the unions can threaten to withhold their endorsements and get them booted out of office if they don't do what the union wants.
If I had to pick one thing, knock the power of the police unions down several notches.  Start there. Work on going after pensions if the cops are found to deliberately murder somebody.
 

Get rid of police unions period. That would be a big start in straightening things out.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Yes ban police unions and place LEO prosecution in a separate unit completely outside of regular units

[52-80 19159]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  You’re just trolling at this point.  Whatever can we do?!?!  Obviously nothing. 

havent seen you chirp a single suggestion besides 'fuck the cops', so you are emblematic of the cheap drive-by flag-waving commentating that plague these threads. 

try something like the below or what slorch and atomheart and others did

32 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Yes ban police unions and place LEO prosecution in a separate unit completely outside of regular units

and things like have pretty much unanimous support on this board. 

on the LEO prosecution front large cities like SF and NY already have IA committees or boards formed by civilians.  actual cases are tried in civilian court like the Shaver/Brailsford shooting.  so prosecution independence isn't the issue ....its already independent, and in the Shaver/Brailsford case it even failed.

[52-80 19159]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

You know what doesn't work? Putting the taxpayers on the hook for millions of dollars when a cop murders or maims somebody. That's like a kid doing something bad, and so you punish a bunch of other kids who had nothing to do with it.  All that does is embolden the bad kid to keep doing bad shit.

Stop training cops to think they are some kind of occupying force, and stop arming/equipping them like they are about to head out on patrol in Afghanistan. This creates the wrong kind of mentality.  They are supposed to serve and protect, and too many of them have forgotten that.

Remind them that they work for the taxpayers, and that we pay their fucking salaries, and we also pay millions out when they deliberately murder or maim somebody. 

Fire their supervisors if there are institutional problems.

Vote out mayors/city councils when the police departments have a problem, and stop letting the police unions have influence over politicians.  Stop making politicians reluctant to go against the police when policies need to be changed.

I have never ever fucking understood how the police unions are allowed to exert so much power over elected officials, who decide on their salaries, their jobs, their policies, etc. and the unions can threaten to withhold their endorsements and get them booted out of office if they don't do what the union wants.

If I had to pick one thing, knock the power of the police unions down several notches.  Start there. Work on going after pensions if the cops are found to deliberately murder somebody.

 

10000% agreed

[Gourmand 7774]

19 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

There is a difference between being subject to the same laws for breaking them and being held to a higher standard when charged with enforcing them

And yet these same individuals are protected as a special class whenever they are the victims of crime. That needs to go both ways. 

 

If the roles were reversed with the two individuals below, the black man would have received the death penalty.

[Brisketexan 105147]

And yet these same individuals are protected as a special class whenever they are the victims of crime. That needs to go both ways. 
 
If the roles were reversed with the two individuals below, the black man would have received the death penalty.

Bingo. We are pissed off when someone takes out a “protector.” We should be as pissed off - maybe more so - when a “protector” completely, 180 degrees betrays his oath and becomes the predator.

Attack a cop? The crime is enhanced by a degree (or more).

A cop uses the badge and power that we gave him to victimize the very people that he is supposed to protect? Enhance that too.

We have made cops into untouchable gods. And they damned well believe it. And we’re all worse off for it.

[riloh05 107]

shouldnt the defense just bring in one of these wonderfully trained officers to perform that exact maneuver on dc, if he survives the 8'ish minutes he walks. if he dies, he dies and everyone moves on.

Edited April 5, 2021 by riloh05

[El Diablo 4232]

18 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

shouldnt the defense just bring in one of these wonderfully trained officers to perform that exact maneuver on dc, if he survives the 8'ish minutes he walks. if he dies, he dies and everyone moves on.

The "rodeo" hold, instead of 8 secs it's 8 minutes. Will need judges (courtroom humor). 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

Goddamnit. Fuck this defense attorney and it took me too long to find this thread to remember his exact quote. It was something to the effect of justifying excessive force by the police as equating a kind of “de-escalation.”

[TexasHooch 5122]

Attorney is trying to infer that Chauvin wasn't even on his neck.  "Camera perspective bias" because one of the body cam shots show him on the shoulder blade.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by TexasHooch

[Guest Lobo]

My 1980's boombox had an audio bias button on it, is that the same thing?  

"Camera Perspective Bias"?  Really?  That's what we're going with?  Not the same ring to it as, "If the glove does not fit...you must acquit."  But you gotta start somewhere, see what goes viral in this day and age.  Chauvin is lucky in one respect, the camera perspective of his bodycam, had it not fallen off, would have been staring straight into the eyes of that little 8 year old girl as she watched life leave a man that looked like her, for no earthly reason.  And Chauvin would have already taken his own life after that footage was seen.  But we have to go through this charade instead, including "Camera Perspective Bias."  I can't wait to see the parade of crime scene photographers the defense rolls out next week to support this theory.  'Uh, you see at 8:30pm on May evenings in Minneapolis...you have refracted light from the northern lights catch off the urban asphalt and the height of the key cell phone footage witness was effected by the angle manipulation of sunset and shifting sidewalk heights. Lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what have you's."  

She was filming with a cell phone used millions of times a day all over our planet to record without "perspective bias."  If this was a custom surveillance camera or a shoulder-held camcorder, that'd be one thing.  But billions of hours of footage are used each day by cell phone video cameras identical to hers.  If you're pinning your hopes that the Jury will believe that her camera is the lone goofy model out of tens of millions...that's a big gambit.  

Uh, also.............when there's a racial element to the murder in question..........never hinge your acquittal on use of the word "Bias"

Are all cop lawyers this stupid? 

[Deej 76797]

11 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Are all cop lawyers this stupid? 

Just throwing out whatever he can.

Cops should only be entitled to the same court appointed lawyers the average citizen gets, if they can't afford one.

"Here's your lawyer, fresh out of aggy law school."

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Deej

[Eskimohorn 5635]

DC’s attorneys are like Shawn Watson. You have Tyrone Swoopes at QB and no right tackle and Charlie Strong is your head coach. You’re not gonna go into South Bend and beat Notre Dame. But you also suck big time.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Just throwing out whatever he can.

Cops should only be entitled to the same court appointed lawyers the average citizen gets, if they can't afford one.

"Here's your lawyer, fresh out of aggy law school."

 

Yeah, all for his getting a fair defense.  All for the defense lawyer bringing the kitchen sink defense.  However, you're inviting a mistrial for incompetence when a murder that is just awash in racial prejudice, hinges on a term with the word "Bias" in it.  Were  "Photo Lens Prejudice" or "Camera Lens Stereotyping" already taken in another cop-on-black murder trial?  

[Deej 76797]

Hey, we don't know what Instagram filter was used.

[Nicole44 22060]

This whole case makes me nervous. I watch and I feel good about a conviction and then I read news articles and feel less certain. 

[Guest Lobo]

good point Deej.  In hindsight, Instagram's "Knee on the Neck" filter was intended more for S&M use, not police apprehension gone wrong videos.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Lobo

[SHOOTER12 8810]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:45 AM, GopherRock said:

The Minneapolis City Council is currently in closed session to discuss a potential settlement with the Floyd family in their wrongful death lawsuit against the City. Any potential details (i.e. $$$$$) will come out afterwards. This will not be a cheap settlement. Recall that the Damond shooting cost the Minneapolis taxpayer $20 million. 

Meanwhile, back in the courthouse, defense struck the first potential juror of the morning. They've used 4 of their 9 strikes, and the state has used 8 of 15.

Virgin here, but why is there a disparity in the number of strikes allowed?

[Captainant 27676]

5 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Virgin here, but why is there a disparity in the number of strikes allowed?

"Strikes" is shorthand for "strike a potential juror" by way of preemptory challenge. I believe the rules for jury selection vary from court to court (state vs federal, etc). 

[atomheartbevo 89675]

13 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Virgin here, 

https://southaustinmoms.com

Edit: Shit, sorry, wrong website.

Edited April 6, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[JBJ 3654]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:38 PM, sheeeit said:

Have only followed the peripherals but this guy needs to go down.  I think manslaughter is a better fit but idaf as long as he does significant time.

IMO, the only way he gets off if is all three of these things happen:

1) A credentialed medical expert testifies that the fentanyl/opioid levels in his system were high enough to cause his death

2) There is some sort of cop manual that shows the technique he used is part of the training 

3) A credentialed medical expert testifies that from the autopsy there was not any swelling/bruising etc on Floyd's neck/throat that indicated that the kneeling actually impacted his breathing

I think it is unlikely all 3 are either true or can be proven, but if they are then I think he might get off.

This is a good bullet-point of what to look for.

I think #2 is already a lost cause.  Chauvin will get likely some lesser included offense even if the murder charges don't stick.

As I see it, evidence of strangulation (#3) is now the most important element for the prosecution.

If that is lacking, the medical evidence around toxicity (#1) becomes important.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Defense is getting destroyed.  Not that it wasn’t a difficult case but Jesus - paint this as a systemic issue on how cops are trained etc.  Instead their guy is out on an island getting lit the fuck up.  

[SHOOTER12 8810]

On 4/2/2021 at 2:59 PM, Brisketexan said:

Counterpoint: I'm not telling you what I believe or not.  I'm not putting any real spin on the belief I cited.

1 -- Go read Texags.  And while they are just socially aware enough not to type the N-word out, read their collective posts, and there is zero mystery.  Race isn't the only factor in the psychotic tapestry they weave, but it's a big fucking thread.

2 -- realize that people like that also live in Minnesota and were certainly in the jury pool.

So, yes, potential jurors absolutely would acquit based on the kind of reasoning I pointed to.  They are flat-out saying so.

Why is it so hard to believe that we have a material number of really shitty racist people in our society?  I know that we'd rather that not be the case, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Well, I took a deep breath, clenched my teeth and went to texags to check out their thread on the trial.  Good Lord that was sickening.

[Brisketexan 105147]

8 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Well, I took a deep breath, clenched my teeth and went to texags to check out their thread on the trial.  Good Lord that was sickening.

Yep.

Just know that a sizable percentage of our population thinks that way, and NOTHING will change their mind.

[XYZ 2154]

31 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Well, I took a deep breath, clenched my teeth and went to texags to check out their thread on the trial.  Good Lord that was sickening.

Why would you do that???

[InkaUtexas 25950]

No idea why they did it, just glad they did not copy and paste a bunch of their shit over here. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2678]

Yeah it's nauseating. There are people on that board that talk the way my dad and grandfather did 40 freaking years ago. And while my dad still thinks like that, he knows better than to spew it out for the whole world to see.