The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[SquishMitten 10425]

Defense is getting destroyed.  Not that it wasn’t a difficult case but Jesus - paint this as a systemic issue on how cops are trained etc.  Instead their guy is out on an island getting lit the fuck up.  

Yeah. It was a hard case to begin with, but having his captain, the police chief, and other cops all come out and say what he did was wrong... woo boy. The PD is throwing him to the wolves. If every case went like this, we’d see a lot more convictions, and we’d eventually start to see real change

[TwiceHorn 31529]

3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Yeah. It was a hard case to begin with, but having his captain, the police chief, and other cops all come out and say what he did was wrong... woo boy. The PD is throwing him to the wolves. If every case went like this, we’d see a lot more convictions, and we’d eventually start to see real change

The sad thing is that the PD is probably not trying to do the right thing here, they're just trying to survive, which happens to coincide with the right thing.  Baby steps, I guess.

[conVINCEd 21469]

Broken clock is right twice a day.

[SquishMitten 10425]

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The sad thing is that the PD is probably not trying to do the right thing here, they're just trying to survive, which happens to coincide with the right thing.  Baby steps, I guess.

Completely agree. The chief did seem pretty sincere, but we've seen plenty of higher-ups around the country say the right things. That doesn't mean they actually believe them or try to implement them. The Floyd case being the second high-profile event under his watch seems to suggest he isn't as sincere about them as he claimed in his testimony yesterday, but I don't know enough about he guy to disparage him directly. 

ETA: Even if they're doing it for the wrong reasons, if every other PD followed in this path change would inevitably follow. Once cops know their bosses will line up to throw them under the bus, they'll think a lot harder about their actions. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by SquishMitten

[Brisketexan 105273]

10 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

ETA: Even if they're doing it for the wrong reasons, if every other PD followed in this path change would inevitably follow. Once cops know their bosses will line up to throw them under the bus, they'll think a lot harder about their actions. 

A lot of this.  If "self-preservation" is the motive that will get PDs to straighten up and fly right (or at least improve materially in that respect), then I'll take it.  But we need to consistently send that message -- hey cop, do something that will hurt the PD as a whole, the PD will cut you loose.

[TexasHooch 5137]

 

13 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Completely agree. The chief did seem pretty sincere, but we've seen plenty of higher-ups around the country say the right things. That doesn't mean they actually believe them or try to implement them. The Floyd case being the second high-profile event under his watch seems to suggest he isn't as sincere about them as he claimed in his testimony yesterday, but I don't know enough about he guy to disparage him directly. 

ETA: Even if they're doing it for the wrong reasons, if every other PD followed in this path change would inevitably follow. Once cops know their bosses will line up to throw them under the bus, they'll think a lot harder about their actions. 

I think he's sincere. And for what it's worth, the Noor case was not under his watch.  The chief at the time was removed immediately following the murder of Justine Damond and Arradando was promoted.  He dealt with the aftermath of it, but was not chief when it happened.

[SHOOTER12 8819]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

Why would you do that???

Senility or Insanity I guess

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

Any amount of force is reasonable so long as the officer deems it reasonable at the time. Therefore there is no limit to the use of force available to the officer. 

[Bevo Num1 1021]

Any amount of force is reasonable so long as the officer deems it reasonable at the time. Therefore there is no limit to the use of force available to the officer. 

In other words, whatever it takes.

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

1 minute ago, Bevo Num1 said:

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Any amount of force is reasonable so long as the officer deems it reasonable at the time. Therefore there is no limit to the use of force available to the officer. 

In other words, whatever it takes.

And then some. And you can go as far as you want, even committing what a reasonable person would consider to be murder, and it’s all okay. 

[TexasHooch 5137]

11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And then some. And you can go as far as you want, even committing what a reasonable person would consider to be murder, and it’s all okay. 

I don't fault you one bit for the cynical interpretation. But just to be clear, that's not an accurate summation of Graham V. Conner decision.  Quite the opposite, really.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by TexasHooch

[Bevo Num1 1021]

Lol that prosecutor's last question was a doozy.

[lemonlime 5503]

48 minutes ago, Bevo Num1 said:

Lol that prosecutor's last question was a doozy.

What was the question? 

 

[Guest Lobo]

It was an interrogative statement used to test knowledge.  But that's not important right now.  

[Hanrahan 1306]

I still think he walks.

[Brisketexan 105273]

10 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

I still think he walks.

See Texags.  It just takes one juror who thinks anything like that, and it's a mistrial.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

Completely agree. The chief did seem pretty sincere, but we've seen plenty of higher-ups around the country say the right things. That doesn't mean they actually believe them or try to implement them. The Floyd case being the second high-profile event under his watch seems to suggest he isn't as sincere about them as he claimed in his testimony yesterday, but I don't know enough about he guy to disparage him directly. 

ETA: Even if they're doing it for the wrong reasons, if every other PD followed in this path change would inevitably follow. Once cops know their bosses will line up to throw them under the bus, they'll think a lot harder about their actions. 

Fire their bosses and accountability will change...  The leaders need to be thinking the way you're describing too.

[atomheartbevo 89777]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

See Texags.  It just takes one juror who thinks anything like that, and it's a mistrial.

But if that juror's name leaks out, and I bet it would, they are toast in the eyes of the public.

You may get a juror who secretly backs the thin blue line no matter what, but are they willing to put the spotlight on themselves?

[conVINCEd 21469]

30 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

I still think he walks.

He will, and his life will be shorter than if he was convicted and sent to prison. 

[Jkwellborn 6724]

He will, and his life will be shorter than if he was convicted and sent to prison. 

I doubt it. He’s not gonna kill himself and he’s probably not gonna be banned from being a cop again if he walks.

[InkaUtexas 26072]

Damn if he walks cities will be a mess. And rightfully so. 

[El Tri 412]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

He will, and his life will be shorter than if he was convicted and sent to prison. 

lol, george fucking zimmerman still hasn't been capped and you think this dude will face consequences if he's acquitted?

[Captainant 27727]

7 minutes ago, El Tri said:

lol, george fucking zimmerman still hasn't been capped and you think this dude will face consequences if he's acquitted?

lmao Chauvin had a fucking armed phalanx of riot gear cops protecting his murdering ass while the city dragged its feet on charging him.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAu844rni4H/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

The police are a separate and unequal class of citizen in the USA. They are a gang wearing badges with the justice system on their side.

[JBJ 3664]

18 minutes ago, El Tri said:

lol, george fucking zimmerman still hasn't been capped and you think this dude will face consequences if he's acquitted?

It became really obvious during the GZ trial that most of the media narrative was false.

This case is going to continue to be shades of grey regardless of the outcome.

[workswithseed 2110]

On 4/4/2021 at 5:13 AM, Captainant said:

Take away, or significantly limit sovereign immunity for a start. The legal precedent for what a cop has to merely claim to be justified in ending a life is ridiculously generous. To the point where there's an entire cottage industry of "warrior cop" trainings on how to get away with it

I mean I almost agree, except take I'd like sovereign immunity away.

[Beau Vine 54381]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

But if that juror's name leaks out, and I bet it would, they are toast in the eyes of the public.

Whatever, they'd be the new hero on Fox News.  SuperPatriot!

[conVINCEd 21469]

5 hours ago, El Tri said:

lol, george fucking zimmerman still hasn't been capped and you think this dude will face consequences if he's acquitted?

I think we occupy a different world than when Zimmerman was acquitted.

[Brisketexan 105273]

I think we occupy a different world than when Zimmerman was acquitted.

You’re right.

But not for the reason you think.

It’s worse.

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You’re right.

But not for the reason you think.

It’s worse.

I think it’s pretty fucking bad.  I stand by my original statement that somebody will take a crack at this guy if he walks, and I doubt he can afford the security needed to prevent it on anything more than a short term basis.  If by worse you are talking about the fallout of that, I agree with you.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

I view a conviction of manslaughter as walking in this case. He committed 1st degree murder on camera.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Watched some of the testimony yesterday.  It was not a good day for the state.  At all.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13521]

I haven't watched much of the trial but it seems like the defense is attempting to use the crowd's response as one reason why Chauvin had to put his knee on Floyd's neck. One, even in the abstract that doesn't make much sense to me: the crowd is unruly, so I need to restrain my arrestee even more? An unruly crowd should only give the police more incentive to get Floyd out of there sooner, not kneel on his neck for 10 minutes.

Two, if the crowd was unruly (not even a given here), it's BECAUSE Chauvin had his knee on Floyd which looked to everyone that Chauvin was killing Floyd. If I was in that crowd, I hope I would have been yelling at the cops to save Floyd from death. 

Nonsensical argument from the defense.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I haven't watched much of the trial but it seems like the defense is attempting to use the crowd's response as one reason why Chauvin had to put his knee on Floyd's neck. One, even in the abstract that doesn't make much sense to me: the crowd is unruly, so I need to restrain my arrestee even more? An unruly crowd should only give the police more incentive to get Floyd out of there sooner, not kneel on his neck for 10 minutes.

Two, if the crowd was unruly (not even a given here), it's BECAUSE Chauvin had his knee on Floyd which looked to everyone that Chauvin was killing Floyd. If I was in that crowd, I hope I would have been yelling at the cops to save Floyd from death. 

Nonsensical argument from the defense.

Well, it may be nonsense.  But yesterday, two of the state's witnesses each testified the crowd being unruly and threatening would be a reason to keep the knee on his neck. (Along with Floyd telling them he had Covid). They also showed pictures timestamped from vest cams minutes a part where the knee was not even on his neck, but on his shoulder blades.

I am telling you, yesterday was not a good day for the prosecution.

[Captainant 27727]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Well, it may be nonsense.  But yesterday, two of the state's witnesses each testified the crowd being unruly and threatening would be a reason to keep the knee on his neck. (Along with Floyd telling them he had Covid). They also showed pictures timestamped from vest cams minutes a part where the knee was not even on his neck, but on his shoulder blades.

I am telling you, yesterday was not a good day for the prosecution.

We get it, if you were a juror in this case you'd latch onto any possible reason to excuse the murder.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

We get it, if you were a juror in this case you'd latch onto any possible reason to excuse the murder.

Fuck off, nerd. 

[Guest Lobo]

So the defense's new posture is "Crowd became unsavory and loud because they are human beings?"  Bold strategy, Cotton.  

A half dozen people got weirded out watching a 10-minute murder play out in real time.  Humans are funny that way.  I, for one, think they were remarkably restrained.  

There was only person who seemed to be operating outside of the normal bounds of the human condition.  

This may also be a good time to discuss how the neck and upper back is part of your respiratory system.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

So the defense's new posture is "Crowd became unsavory and loud because they are human beings?"  Bold strategy, Cotton.  

A half dozen people got weirded out watching a 10-minute murder play out in real time.  Humans are funny that way.  I, for one, think they were remarkably restrained.  

There was only person who seemed to be operating outside of the normal bounds of the human condition.  

This may also be a good time to discuss how the neck and upper back is part of your respiratory system.  

The state’s witnesses were agreeing with that theory.  One is going to be called back as a defense witness.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Ultimately this case comes down to whether he would have died but for the cop’s action, which will be decided by experts. That in of itself could create reasonable doubt.

Medical examiner says homicide.  The medical examiner also said there were zero signs of asphyxiation and that Floyd had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system, had methamphetamine in his system, had lungs that were 2-3x the normal weight, had a heart condition, and had COVID. The Medical Examiner also said that had he found the body as it was and did not have the outside knowledge of the police encounter, then he would have ruled it a fentanyl overdose.

[gsoda3 3281]

how do homicide and overdose reconcile?

[Guest Lobo]

Divorce Court? 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13521]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Ultimately this case comes down to whether he would have died but for the cop’s action, which will be decided by experts. That in of itself could create reasonable doubt.

Medical examiner says homicide.  The medical examiner also said there were zero signs of asphyxiation and that Floyd had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system, had methamphetamine in his system, had lungs that were 2-3x the normal weight, had a heart condition, and had COVID. The Medical Examiner also said that had he found the body as it was and did not have the outside knowledge of the police encounter, then he would have ruled it a fentanyl overdose.

the defense is saying that Floyd was going to die at that same time or even before, if the cop didn't put a knee on his neck? 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21920]

So the cop is a hero for choking the life into him?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the defense is saying that Floyd was going to die at that same time or even before, if the cop didn't put a knee on his neck? 

They are trying to say there is reasonable doubt in causation.  Defense's experts are going to say Chauvin did not cause his death based on the factors I stated in post 438.   Then they will ask the ME if reasonable minds could differ on cause of death.

[dcar00 14344]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They are trying to say there is reasonable doubt in causation.  Defense's experts are going to say Chauvin did not cause his death based on the factors I stated in post 438.   Then they will ask the ME if reasonable minds could differ on cause of death.

thats when he stands up and shouts "reasonable! reasonable! do you see anyone being reasonable up in this bitch!"

[Johnny Sack 8397]

State Witness James Reyerson, Lead Investigator being questioned about video clip:

"Did you hear that?"

"Yes I did."

"Did it appear that Mr. Floyd said 'I ate too many drugs?'"

"Yes it did"

[kevwun 15855]

The guy who was dying of a fentaynl overdose needed to be choked in to a submission because of an unruly crowd?  If only George Floyd had been wearing a short skirt.  Then he would have been asking for it too.

Edited April 7, 2021 by kevwun

[workswithseed 2110]

30 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The guy who was dying of a fentaynl overdose needed to be choked in to a submission because of an unruly crowd?  If only George Floyd had been wearing a short skirt.  Then he would have been asking for it too.

Was it known that he was dying from an overdose?

[Jkwellborn 6724]

Ultimately this case comes down to whether he would have died but for the cop’s action, which will be decided by experts. That in of itself could create reasonable doubt.
Medical examiner says homicide.  The medical examiner also said there were zero signs of asphyxiation and that Floyd had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system, had methamphetamine in his system, had lungs that were 2-3x the normal weight, had a heart condition, and had COVID. The Medical Examiner also said that had he found the body as it was and did not have the outside knowledge of the police encounter, then he would have ruled it a fentanyl overdose.

How many autopsies did they do? The original one said it was a heart attack.

[kevwun 15855]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Was it known that he was dying from an overdose?

No, it's a desperate defense excuse, but it doesn't matter even if it were true.  If Chauvin shortened Floyd's life by 1 minute, he's still guilty of murder.

[workswithseed 2110]

15 minutes ago, kevwun said:

No, it's a desperate defense excuse, but it doesn't matter even if it were true.  If Chauvin shortened Floyd's life by 1 minute, he's still guilty of murder.

That makes sense.

This is a representation of what happened. It could be that it wasn't the fentanyl at all, but we'll see more from the prosecution.