The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[TwiceHorn 31,510]

3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Wow you are tiny. Don't care about the trial; let's drill down into this. How tall are you? What is your story? Are you a little person? What is your ancestry? 

Mostly, CNAJ is a woman.  And apparently a rather petite one.

[wildcat09 29,355]

I see Johnny got drunk and started dipping his toe in some racism on Surly again last night. Some things never change.

[Guest Lobo]

I was listening to the defense on the radio while they questioned that pathologist.  Extensive questioning about his existing heart condition and the drugs in his system.  I get that's part of the defense, to paint Floyd as "dying from something else."  The undertone of the questioning was tacitly, "Could Floyd have died from these other two things?"  Just seems like a wild coincidence that he died from something else while this other awful thing was happening to him.  I dunno. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Mostly, CNAJ is a woman.  And apparently a rather petite one.

Mind. Blown.

It's like that riddle you'd hear about a plane wreck and the pilot was related to the crash victim, but not brother or dad or something so how are they related, and the "gotcha" is that the pilot is a woman. We are biased and accustomed to thinking of certain segments of society, Dr's, Pilots and anonymous online message board posters as men.

[TwiceHorn 31,510]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I was listening to the defense on the radio while they questioned that pathologist.  Extensive questioning about his existing heart condition and the drugs in his system.  I get that's part of the defense, to paint Floyd as "dying from something else."  The undertone of the questioning was tacitly, "Could Floyd have died from these other two things?"  Just seems like a wild coincidence that he died from something else while this other awful thing was happening to him.  I dunno. 

One might guess that the defense didn't want to ask that ultimate question, rather only get him to concede that the facts exist.  They can then tie that into their expert's testimony, which would seem to be (although this is only a prediction) that the drugs and heart condition killed him to the exclusion of the assault.  That way they don't provoke the explicit disagreement and ensuing credibility contest.

[lemonlime 5,503]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

One might guess that the defense didn't want to ask that ultimate question, rather only get him to concede that the facts exist.  They can then tie that into their expert's testimony, which would seem to be (although this is only a prediction) that the drugs and heart condition killed him to the exclusion of the assault.  That way they don't provoke the explicit disagreement and ensuing credibility contest.

 

7 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Mind. Blown.

It's like that riddle you'd hear about a plane wreck and the pilot was related to the crash victim, but not brother or dad or something so how are they related, and the "gotcha" is that the pilot is a woman. We are biased and accustomed to thinking of certain segments of society, Dr's, Pilots and anonymous online message board posters as men.

Her.

[JBJ 3,660]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One might guess that the defense didn't want to ask that ultimate question, rather only get him to concede that the facts exist.  They can then tie that into their expert's testimony, which would seem to be (although this is only a prediction) that the drugs and heart condition killed him to the exclusion of the assault.  That way they don't provoke the explicit disagreement and ensuing credibility contest.

I.E. Lawyers don't ask a question when they don't know what the answer will be.

[Kyle 207]

49 minutes ago, JBJ said:

I.E. Lawyers don't ask a question when they don't know what the answer will be.

 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

I see Johnny got drunk and started dipping his toe in some racism on Surly again last night. Some things never change.

Bullshit.  What post was racist?  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

why are people making fun of Chauvin for being 140? The average weight of the US soldier in WW2 was 144. Is someone declaring them to be little people? They marched around the world and saved it.

We're just all fat now. We see someone that is normal weight today, and call them skinny.

FYI, I'm a lot higher than 140. Wish I was closer to 140.

[Kyle 207]

28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

why are people making fun of Chauvin for being 140? The average weight of the US soldier in WW2 was 144. Is someone declaring them to be little people? They marched around the world and saved it.

We're just all fat now. We see someone that is normal weight today, and call them skinny.

FYI, I'm a lot higher than 140. Wish I was closer to 140.

 

[Poe It Up 126]

44 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

why are people making fun of Chauvin for being 140? The average weight of the US soldier in WW2 was 144. Is someone declaring them to be little people? They marched around the world and saved it.

We're just all fat now. We see someone that is normal weight today, and call them skinny.

FYI, I'm a lot higher than 140. Wish I was closer to 140.

To be fair, they were going through a Great Depression and probably starving. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Also, killing millions of men and needing all the young men and boys who forged their age so they can fight, means the millions of pubescent 15 and 16 year olds probably skews that number down.

I'm really sorry you are a small person and I'll defend you as you are a protected class of little person, but let's not try and use WWII to normalize being an itty bitty man.

[XYZ 2,154]

140 lbs talk not going away

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

To say the cross of the medical examiner (Dr. Baker) is going well for the defense would be an understatement. 

"In my opinion Mr. Chauvin's knee was primarily on the back or the side of the area in between on Mr Floyd's neck"

"It did not appear to me that his knee would be able to occlude the carotid artery. Even it it were normal people have two carotid arteries and the unoccluded carotid artery would have been able to supply blood to the brain"

He agreed his findings do not support death by asphyxiation.  And that Chauvin's placement of his knee did not cut off Floyd's airway.

Preexisting conditions and drugs contributed to death, that Chauvin did not singularly cause his death.

Not on airway. Carotid artery not an issue. Could be classified as a fentanyl overdose.

[Captainant 27,682]

Please mr sack. Try to hide your excitement of another cop getting away with the murder of a black man.

[52-80 19,195]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Mostly, CNAJ is a woman.  And apparently a rather petite one.

prove it.  with pics.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Please mr sack. Try to hide your excitement of another cop getting away with the murder of a black man.

Not excited.  Don't have a rooting interest.  I would convict on manslaughter as I believe DC was grossly negligent.

You probably thought Michael Brown was murdered with his hands up saying don't shoot, didn't you?  

[0xdeadbeef 1,651]

58 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Please mr sack. Try to hide your excitement of another cop getting away with the murder of a black man.

Do you have a different take on the cross of the ME? 

I'm only following the trial via this thread, so if Sack's take is giving a distorted picture, by all means drop some play-by-play and analysis.

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,161]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Preexisting conditions and drugs contributed to death, that Chauvin did not singularly cause his death.

Cool.  Then it's a good thing that the standard for a murder conviction under the applicable law is "the thing you did was the singular cause of death."

Otherwise, I could shove an old woman to the ground, and when she cracked her head open and died, I would be acquitted because the reason she fell and died is because 1) she was old and had bad balance, and 2) the reason her skull cracked is because she had brittle bones (stupid woman should have eaten more calcium, like her doctors kept telling her).  Had I done the same thing to a 20 year old male, he would have just stumbled a bit, and been fine.  Man, being acquitted of murder because I only attack people with some sort of weakness is AWESOME.  I'm gonna go do more of it.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Brisketexan

[bolverk 29,694]

It ultimately doesn't matter how heavy Chauvin is if he's still able to apply 90 lbs of pressure directly on a pinned down guy's neck.

[Hanrahan 1,306]

Cool.  Then it's a good thing that the standard for a murder conviction under the applicable law is "the thing you did was the singular cause of death."
Otherwise, I could shove an old woman to the ground, and when she cracked her head open and died, I would be acquitted because the reason she fell and died is because 1) she was old and had bad balance, and 2) the reason her skull cracked is because she had brittle bones (stupid woman should have eaten more calcium, like her doctors kept telling her).  Had I done the same thing to a 20 year old male, he would have just stumbled a bit, and been fine.  Man, being acquitted of murder because I only attack people with some sort of weakness is AWESOME.  I'm gonna go do more of it.

But that’s not really a fair comparison. You don’t have a legal right to assault an old lady. Cop had some legal right to restrain Floyd by force. This would be more like someone assuming the risk of a wrestling match and the question was whether death was caused by the other wrestler going too far after subduing his opponent or whether the opponent’s preexisting medical conditions and drug use caused death. It’s a really hard question. (Note: could give a fuck of Chauvin is convicted. I just see it as a really hard case and would not want to be on that jury).

[Eskimohorn 5,637]

But that’s not really a fair comparison. You don’t have a legal right to assault an old lady. Cop had some legal right to restrain Floyd by force. This would be more like someone assuming the risk of a wrestling match and the question was whether death was caused by the other wrestler going too far after subduing his opponent or whether the opponent’s preexisting medical conditions and drug use caused death. It’s a really hard question. (Note: could give a fuck of Chauvin is convicted. I just see it as a really hard case and would not want to be on that jury).

The wrestling comparison is interesting, because if a wrestler tapped out, and the ref let his opponent continue to kill him, that would not be part of the wrestling match. It moves from part of the job accident to the start of a murder.

[Captainant 27,682]

5 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Not on airway. Carotid artery not an issue. Could be classified as a fentanyl overdose.

Just got caught up on today's court proceedings, it would appear that the ME's testimony disagrees. Specifically, the ME said that interaction with the police killed Floyd. They found no pill fragments in his stomach, but did say that his health issues were a factor towards his weakened heart. So it would appear that the whole "he was swallowing drugs and quickly overdosed" thing is not backed by the evidence.

Based on what's said in court under oath so far: but for chauvin's knee on his neck for 9 minutes, Floyd would not have died. That meets the requirement for murder.

[gsoda3 3,265]

Quote

Recounting his earlier statements to federal officials, Baker reiterated his belief that Floyd “experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest in the context of law enforcement’s subdual restraint and neck compression.”

“It was the stress of that interaction that tipped him over the edge,” Baker said.

from a summary i found

[JimmyJames 12,271]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

To say the cross of the medical examiner (Dr. Baker) is going well for the defense would be an understatement. 

"In my opinion Mr. Chauvin's knee was primarily on the back or the side of the area in between on Mr Floyd's neck"

"It did not appear to me that his knee would be able to occlude the carotid artery. Even it it were normal people have two carotid arteries and the unoccluded carotid artery would have been able to supply blood to the brain"

He agreed his findings do not support death by asphyxiation.  And that Chauvin's placement of his knee did not cut off Floyd's airway.

Preexisting conditions and drugs contributed to death, that Chauvin did not singularly cause his death.

Not on airway. Carotid artery not an issue. Could be classified as a fentanyl overdose.

I noticed you stopped quoting before you gave your supposed conclusions based on your interpretation of the testimony. Why is that?  Did you read a transcript or can you give us a copy?

Because I got to admit, your credibility in this matter is complete dogshit. You want him acquitted because that’s what kind of asshole you are. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by JimmyJames

[JimmyJames 12,271]

In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual restraint and neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take by virtue of those heart conditions,” said Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County chief medical examiner and pathologist, who described Mr. Floyd’s heart as somewhat enlarged with...

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker ruled Floyd's death last May a homicide and identified the cause as "cardiopulmonary arrest" that occurred during "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" -- all findings he stood by in court on Friday.
 

To the shock of nobody, Johnny sack is once again a lying sack of dogshit. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Baker reiterated he stood by the cause of death he wrote on Floyd's death certificate and his finding Floyd's death was a homicide, which to a medical examiner means his death was caused by another person and does not necessarily indicate guilt. 

"Yes, I would still classify it as homicide today," he said.
 

“This means he said the cop is innocent.” - Johnny sack

[workswithseed 2,112]

11 hours ago, Kyle said:

 

Huh?

[GringoSalado 1,651]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual restraint and neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take by virtue of those heart conditions,” said Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County chief medical examiner and pathologist, who described Mr. Floyd’s heart as somewhat enlarged with...

Stop drunk posting. Or just stop posting.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

8 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker ruled Floyd's death last May a homicide and identified the cause as "cardiopulmonary arrest" that occurred during "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" -- all findings he stood by in court on Friday.
 

To the shock of nobody, Johnny sack is once again a lying sack of dogshit. 

@Johnny Sack is a church deacon, sir.

[Enchubben 5,510]

17 hours ago, Captainant said:

Please mr sack. Try to hide your excitement of another cop getting away with the murder of a black man.

Honest question - What do you aim to accomplish by posting something like this?

just argue/discuss the case/updates/theories and leave this shit elsewhere. 

[Hmbre97 6,320]

Do you have a different take on the cross of the ME? 
I'm only following the trial via this thread, so if Sack's take is giving a distorted picture, by all means drop some play-by-play and analysis.
 
 

Having watched it myself, Sack's interpretation is akin to an aggy watching them play against Alabama, tied game and Alabama is on the 3 yard line. Said aggy then goes on to say how the impact of Alabama fumbling the ball on the goal line and its impact on the game is an "understatement" while leaving out the part that Alabama recovered the football and still ran it in for a touchdown anyway.


Basically, the ME said if they found George Floyd dead in his home alone, they would probably rule heart disease and drug toxicity as cause of death but since this wasn't the case and George Floyd was alive until the officer applied "neck compression", the neck compression aggravated his other conditions to trigger the cardiac event, hence why it is ruled a homicide.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

16 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

I noticed you stopped quoting before you gave your supposed conclusions based on your interpretation of the testimony. Why is that?  Did you read a transcript or can you give us a copy?

Because I got to admit, your credibility in this matter is complete dogshit. You want him acquitted because that’s what kind of asshole you are. 

Your opinion of me is absolutely meaningless.  You’re the one being an asshole, by the way.  

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Your opinion of me is absolutely meaningless.  You’re the one being an asshole, by the way.  

I realize my opinion of you is as meaningless as your opinion of me. No argument there.

And yes I can be an asshole on the net. Can’t argue with that either.

Where I took issue with your post was you misrepresenting the facts of the testimony. Why you insist on doing that is strange to me and makes no sense but I thought I would make the rest of the board who might care aware that you were once again lying, again.

[lemonlime 5,503]

44 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I realize my opinion of you is as meaningless as your opinion of me. No argument there.

And yes I can be an asshole on the net. Can’t argue with that either.

Where I took issue with your post was you misrepresenting the facts of the testimony. Why you insist on doing that is strange to me and makes no sense but I thought I would make the rest of the board who might care aware that you were once again lying, again.

It's a bizarre hill to die on.  Even taking sack's ridiculous take as true, at best, Chauvin is a sociopath who kneeled on a guy's neck for 9 minutes, even after he was rendered unconscious, even had Floyd somehow coincidentally died at the exact same moment due to a drug overdose or heart attack.  Chauvin's obviously entitled to a defense.  But I don't get why a member of the public would have any desire to carry water for him.

[Michael Knight 12,989]

There is no way they can let this piece of shit walk so I'm morbidly curious in finding out how he gets away with it at the end of the movie.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

7 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

There is no way they can let this piece of shit walk so I'm morbidly curious in finding out how he gets away with it at the end of the movie.

There’s a @Johnny Sack on every jury.

[Wulaw Horn 19,127]

Y’all keep asking about chuck Norris being a midget realize that’s a woman, right?  Guess not. Y’all be dense. 

[Nivek 16,946]

Cool.  Then it's a good thing that the standard for a murder conviction under the applicable law is "the thing you did was the singular cause of death."
Otherwise, I could shove an old woman to the ground, and when she cracked her head open and died, I would be acquitted because the reason she fell and died is because 1) she was old and had bad balance, and 2) the reason her skull cracked is because she had brittle bones (stupid woman should have eaten more calcium, like her doctors kept telling her).  Had I done the same thing to a 20 year old male, he would have just stumbled a bit, and been fine.  Man, being acquitted of murder because I only attack people with some sort of weakness is AWESOME.  I'm gonna go do more of it.

It wasn’t my fault they died of gunshot wounds. They should have worn body armor. Or they shouldn’t of had a single heart supplying all the blood. That is really a design flaw, and Jesus’ fault.

[Hanrahan 1,306]

That’s a pretty lazy take.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

13 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

@Johnny Sack is a church deacon, sir.

The church has a problem. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

There is no way they can let this piece of shit walk so I'm morbidly curious in finding out how he gets away with it at the end of the movie.

He certainly could walk. Because of the video I don’t think he will, but the outcome is far from certain.

Hell the cops who beat the shit out of Rodney king walked and that wasn’t even a murder charge. 
 

The dirty American secret that nobody wants to ever acknowledge is that one of the primary jobs of cops is to protect the whites from the blacks. And they do a damn good job of doing that. As far as the cops are concerned, given that, they were just doing their job. And given that mandate...

[Captainant 27,682]

SNL on point

 

[Lurch 5,931]

[Jkwellborn 6,713]

It’s not even the same. Because no one drank water then. But hey, hate on.

[Lurch 5,931]

Lolwat

[Nicole44 22,069]

I still feel like this was premeditated murder. The deceased and the defendant knew each other. My peace is said on that. Will stop harping like a bitch. Hope he gets a guilty verdict. 

[blacklab 11,941]

split the thread shit to another thread, this thread is for the chauvin trial