The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[SKJ 1311]

1 minute ago, Da Fino said:

I know all of these words, but I’m having a hell of a time understanding them right now.

There are 4 to 5 prisons in the federal system that are used to house all the people that can't live in a normal prison because they'd be killed or assaulted a lot, and the federal bureau of prisons has to try to guarantee safety to its prisoners. Those prisons (maybe more than 5, at this point)  are considered "not in good standing" prisons, and they ship all of the high profile snitches,  molesters, cops,  trans, and gamg drop-out members who would be green-lighted to those prisons for their safety. 

Entire yards of protective custody people that can't walk a normal yard. 

Better? 

[Nicole44 22059]

Been following the new Columbus case of the 15/16 year old girl. 

Columbus Police said at about 4:30 p.m. Tuesday, officers responded to 3171 Legion Lane. The caller said females were there to stab them and put their hands on them, according to police. 

Columbus Police said dispatchers were unable to get information about weapons at the scene. 

Officers arrived at the scene at 4:44 p.m. 

Body-camera video from a responding officer shows Bryant appearing to try to stab two females when the officer fired, striking her. 

Columbus Interim Police Chief Michael Woods said officers immediately began life-saving measures and medics were called immediately.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

The problem with the rape culture in prison ain't because guys like Chauvin may be getting NowThis'd. It's the fact that some innocent person or someone in for a bullshit low-level crime is being subjected to that.

Nah man. The problem with rape culture in prison is that it’s morally wrong. If we want to sentence someone to forced sodomy for a team of years then we should just go ahead and decide to do that, collectively, as a society. 
Since we don’t, and we do confine them, and take responsibility for their safety maybe we ought to live up to that responsibility. Guilty or not. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[52-80 19147]

2 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Been following the new Columbus case of the 15/16 year old girl. 

Columbus Police said at about 4:30 p.m. Tuesday, officers responded to 3171 Legion Lane. The caller said females were there to stab them and put their hands on them, according to police. 

Columbus Police said dispatchers were unable to get information about weapons at the scene. 

Officers arrived at the scene at 4:44 p.m. 

Body-camera video from a responding officer shows Bryant appearing to try to stab two females when the officer fired, striking her. 

Columbus Interim Police Chief Michael Woods said officers immediately began life-saving measures and medics were called immediately.

Oh boy.

[Da Fino 2777]

There are 4 to 5 prisons in the federal system that are used to house all the people that can't live in a normal prison because they'd be killed or assaulted a lot, and the federal bureau of prisons has to try to guarantee safety to its prisoners. Those prisons (maybe more than 5, at this point)  are considered "not in good standing" prisons, and they ship all of the high profile snitches,  molesters, cops,  trans, and gamg drop-out members who would be green-lighted to those prisons for their safety. 
Entire yards of protective custody people that can't walk a normal yard. 
Better? 

Very interesting. Thank you.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 minute ago, Da Fino said:

Very interesting. Thank you.

Yes it was. 

[SKJ 1311]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nah man. The problem with rape culture in prison is that it’s morally wrong. If we want to sentence someone to forced sodomy for a team of years then we should just go ahead and decide to do that, collectively, as a society. 
Since we don’t, and we do fine them, and take responsibility for their safety maybe we ought to line up to that responsibility. Guilty or not. 

From what I know about the subject is that there are not very many people that are willing to fight that get raped anymore in most cases.  There are too many people willing to give it up that having to fight for it just makes it too difficult, considering if there is an actual fight,  most prisons transfer and upgrade custody points for assault,  especially attempted sexual assault. The guys that want to fuck guys in prison would rather develop someone than take someone so that they don't end up doing long shu terms and can be active on a yard. 

 

 

[Nicole44 22059]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Oh boy.

Transparency is important. Body cameras should be used at all times. For everyone’s sake. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

From what I know about the subject is that there are not very many people that are willing to fight that get raped anymore in most cases.  There are too many people willing to give it up that having to fight for it just makes it too difficult, considering if there is an actual fight,  most prisons transfer and upgrade custody points for assault,  especially attempted sexual assault. The guys that want to fuck guys in prison would rather develop someone than take someone so that they don't end up doing long shu terms and can be active on a yard. 

 

 

The more you know. Thanks for that. I know nothing about prison other than the assumption that there is a lot of involuntary sodomy brought about by movies and jokes. 

[52-80 19147]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Transparency is important. Body cameras should be used at all times. For everyone’s sake. 

Can’t wait for the headlines and ESPN takes. 

[cabowabo 4484]

Can’t wait for the headlines and ESPN takes. 

Yeah, the Chauvin verdict headlining the ESPN page is a little ridiculous.

[Guest Lobo]

Didn’t Columbus just have massive Ohio state student riots the other night with overturned cars, looting, and arson?  But no arrests were made because they were white kids.  And for some reason a young black girl had to take a fatal round tonight?   What the fuck?

simulation didn’t take long to remind us we are one software update away 

[Nicole44 22059]

The link is for the video of the shooting as well as information related to the. Now 15/16 year old now deceased girl.

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/person-in-critical-condition-following-officer-involved-shooting-4-20-2021
 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nicole44
Watched it three times.

[SKJ 1311]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The more you know. Thanks for that. I know nothing about prison other than the assumption that there is a lot of involuntary sodomy brought about by movies and jokes. 

There's a long history to it,  but the seriousness of the BOP and most DOC'S reactions to it made it change a lot. If you stand up to it at all, even in the least, most of the predators will relent because being in seg for a year or two will suck worse than just finding a willing participant. 

There's even signs posted in most genpop areas that tell you if you're being pressured you can let admin know and they'll protect you.  

Sure,  there's still some shit going down, but if you're labeled a sexual predator, and you get a rape case in the joint,  you'll be in segregation for a long while at the least 

[Both Tacos 1806]

Didn’t Columbus just have massive Ohio state student riots the other night with overturned cars, looting, and arson?  But no arrests were made because they were white kids.  And for some reason a young black girl had to take a fatal round tonight?   What the fuck?
simulation didn’t take long to remind us we are one software update away 

She took a fatal round because she was trying to stab someone else with a knife.

[Nicole44 22059]

2 minutes ago, Both Tacos said:

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Didn’t Columbus just have massive Ohio state student riots the other night with overturned cars, looting, and arson?  But no arrests were made because they were white kids.  And for some reason a young black girl had to take a fatal round tonight?   What the fuck?
simulation didn’t take long to remind us we are one software update away 

She took a fatal round because she was trying to stab someone else with a knife.

Two women with a knife. 
 

watch the video. They even slow it down.

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/person-in-critical-condition-following-officer-involved-shooting-4-20-2021

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nicole44

[Guest Lobo]

Okay, I haven’t seen all the information from the incident report.  I wasn’t convicting anyone of anything, just kind of an arms up in the air “really 2021, really?   You couldn’t wait until the day after the chauvin verdict?”

[Huckleberry 32850]

49 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

The research and conclusion is there if you just turnaround... 

The difference between us is that when I posted incorrect information I owned up to it and admitted as much and continued to discuss the topic. 

When you posted incorrect information leading to dumb posts over a span of years you just ran away from a subforum to try and find a safe space. 

[cabowabo 4484]

 I wasn’t convicting anyone of anything,

LOL.

[Gourmand 7774]

33 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Two women with a knife. 
 

watch the video. They even slow it down.

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/person-in-critical-condition-following-officer-involved-shooting-4-20-2021

 

No question this is a justified use of lethal force. The teen with the knife was about to plunge it into the other girl. 

[Nicole44 22059]

Just now, Gourmand said:

No question this is a justified use of lethal force. The teen with the knife was about to plunge it into the other girl. 

I can’t see one.

[Gourmand 7774]

nm

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Gourmand
wrong thread

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

3 hours ago, Gourmand said:

No question this is a justified use of lethal force. The teen with the knife was about to plunge it into the other girl. 

That may be true. But if you assert that the cop was able to make that split second decision then you also have to admit that there was more than enough time for the cop who shot and killed 13-year-old Adam Toledo to recognize he had dropped the gun, had his hands in the air, and was giving himself up. If one was a good shoot then the other was murder.  

[Nicole44 22059]

For y’all who ain’t white:

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nicole44
This is one of my favorite movies. And this scene is badass for a lot of reasons

[EuroHorn 3259]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

The difference between us is that when I posted incorrect information I owned up to it and admitted as much and continued to discuss the topic. 

When you posted incorrect information leading to dumb posts over a span of years you just ran away from a subforum to try and find a safe space. 

lol, right dingleberry...

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by EuroHorn

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

7 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

micheal berry call in today was greatness :

 

caller : why didn't his defense ask or bring up that there was no weight on his knee pressing down on that thug ??? you can see it in the video !!!!

caller : sad day in america when an officer can't apprehend a horrible gangster without being convicted of murder

caller : chauvin is a hero 

caller :  he was guilty and died of natural causes !!!

Don’t listen to Michael berrys show. And these comments seem to reflect the Texags opinions as well.

[52-80 19147]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That may be true. But if you assert that the cop was able to make that split second decision then you also have to admit that there was more than enough time for the cop who shot and killed 13-year-old Adam Toledo to recognize he had dropped the gun, had his hands in the air, and was giving himself up. If one was a good shoot then the other was murder.  

 

There's definitely no difference between the scenarios: 

(a) in the middle of the day, where the girl was turned away from the police, with a knife (i.e. short range effective), making stabby stab at another person

vs

(b) in the darkness of 3am, where a guy was turned towards the police, known to have a gun (i.e. long range effective), with police as only other party there

 

you have to admit, theres virtually no difference at all

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

8 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Transparency is important. Body cameras should be used at all times. For everyone’s sake. 

Yeah I’ve seen two videos in last 18 hours that are going to save the officers ass. You’d have to be shady af as an officer to still refuse one imo. 

[Guest Lobo]

Whew, long night of rioting.  Just getting caught up.  Where was the night of insane calamity and anarchy I was promised? 

I read a second headline on foxnews.com that says a Portland police officer was punched last night (major news that police in big cities sometimes get hit by assholes).  

What about looting?  Arson?  Collapse of law and order in multiple cities and jurisdictions?  This is fucking lame America, just another Wednesday morning?  Boring!

[JBJ 3654]

8 hours ago, Gourmand said:

No question this is a justified use of lethal force. The teen with the knife was about to plunge it into the other girl. 

Pretty much this.  Saved the life of pink pajamas.

I like how the dude in the video kicks the girl on the ground in the head.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Don’t listen to Michael berrys show. And these comments seem to reflect the Texags opinions as well.

It disgust me every time I accidentally catch a snippet of it. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It disgust me every time I accidentally catch a snippet of it. 

He's pretty awful.  And not bright at all.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

He's pretty awful.  And not bright at all.

That’s the thing that pisses me off about him- I think (could well be wrong) that he actually is pretty bright but he chooses to instead play the part of a racist clown. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That may be true. But if you assert that the cop was able to make that split second decision then you also have to admit that there was more than enough time for the cop who shot and killed 13-year-old Adam Toledo to recognize he had dropped the gun, had his hands in the air, and was giving himself up. If one was a good shoot then the other was murder.  

Different circumstances.  And I know this sounds crazy, but not every officer will react exactly the same when making a split second and life or death decision.  

The cop who shot Toledo had less than a second from the time the kid turns around until the gun is discharged -- which means he had already started pulling the trigger.  Had the kid dropped the gun instead of concealing his tossing it behind a fence, he spends some time in juvie and is home soon. I feel bad for that cop, because there is no way he wanted to shoot a 13 year old.  But it was a justifiable shooting.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Different circumstances.  And I know this sounds crazy, but not every officer will react exactly the same when making a split second and life or death decision.  

The cop who shot Toledo had less than a second from the time the kid turns around until the gun is discharged -- which means he had already started pulling the trigger.  Had the kid dropped the gun instead of concealing his tossing it behind a fence, he spends some time in juvie and is home soon. I feel bad for that cop, because there is no way he wanted to shoot a 13 year old.  But it was a justifiable shooting.

Shouldn't someone need to be doing something violent before getting shot, or at least, threatening to do violence? Even if he hadn't disarmed himself, what is wrong with being armed? Does the 2nd amendment exist or not? 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Shouldn't someone need to be doing something violent before getting shot, or at least, threatening to do violence? Even if he hadn't disarmed himself, what is wrong with being armed? Does the 2nd amendment exist or not? 

No.  The legal standard is did the individual who exercised deadly force have a reasonable belief it was necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury.  So no.  If you are attempting to evade arrest while armed and toss the gun in a manner where a cop cannot see it, and you turn around quickly like this kid did, the cop had a reasonable belief the kid was going to shoot him.  He did nothing wrong.  He does not have to wait for the kid to shoot.  The kid fucked up trying to toss the gun in a way the cop could not see it.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

No.  The legal standard is did the individual who exercised deadly force have a reasonable belief it was necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury.  So no.  If you are attempting to evade arrest while armed and toss the gun in a manner where a cop cannot see it, and you turn around quickly like this kid did, the cop had a reasonable belief the kid was going to shoot him.  He did nothing wrong.  He does not have to wait for the kid to shoot.  The kid fucked up trying to toss the gun in a way the cop could not see it.

But in order for there to be a "reasonable belief" and justification for shooting someone, shouldn't the victim at least need to be doing something violent or threatening to do violence?  Running away is the opposite of a threatening action.  Being armed shouldn't be justification to be killed - or does the 2nd amendment not exist?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Admittedly I don't know every detail about the Toledo shooting but it's a bad call to run from the police and at some point have a gun in your hand. I don't expect a 13 year old to act reasonably but some mistakes don't care about your age. The kid may have thought he was acting smart to toss the gun down but that actually made the situation worse. 

I'm critical of many police actions but I imagine it's difficult to make split second decisions like this. Adrenaline is rushing and you can't pause real life to examine what is happening frame by frame like we have the luxury of doing post incident. 

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

But in order for there to be a "reasonable belief" and justification for shooting someone, shouldn't the victim at least need to be doing something violent or threatening to do violence?  Running away is the opposite of a threatening action.  Being armed shouldn't be justification to be killed - or does the 2nd amendment not exist?

Turning around quickly when the cop orders you to stop and show your hands after you've tossed the gun behind a fence in a manner the cop could not see you lose the gun is enough.  Cop knew he was armed in his right hand.  Did not know he had tossed the gun.  And the kid turned around quickly in counterclockwise manner so the cop could not see his hands until it was too late and had already started the trigger pull.  It was a reasonable belief to think the kid was still armed and turning around to shoot at him.  It was in fact not what was going to happen as he had just tossed the gun.  But it was not an unreasonable belief.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Admittedly I don't know every detail about the Toledo shooting but it's a bad call to run from the police and at some point have a gun in your hand. I don't expect a 13 year old to act reasonably but some mistakes don't care about your age. The kid may have thought he was acting smart to toss the gun down but that actually made the situation worse. 

I'm critical of many police actions but I imagine it's difficult to make split second decisions like this. Adrenaline is rushing and you can't pause real life to examine what is happening frame by frame like we have the luxury of doing post incident. 

 

And do we have any indication the cop knew this kids age?  Not that it is that important as a 13 year old is old enough to pull a trigger.  But nothing I have seen indicates the cop knew how old he was.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Being armed shouldn't be justification to be killed - or does the 2nd amendment not exist?

I like this phrase you and Brisket have decided to run with about the 2nd. We should have a discussion on age probably. Since it does exist, maybe we should talk about substantially lowering the age for lawful ownership. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Turning around quickly when the cop orders you to stop and show your hands after you've tossed the gun behind a fence in a manner the cop could not see you lose the gun is enough.  Cop knew he was armed in his right hand.  Did not know he had tossed the gun.  And the kid turned around quickly in counterclockwise manner so the cop could not see his hands until it was too late and had already started the trigger pull.  It was a reasonable belief to think the kid was still armed and turning around to shoot at him.  It was in fact not what was going to happen as he had just tossed the gun.  But it was not an unreasonable belief.

I don't agree with Sack often but moving quickly when dealing with cops, is a bad bad decision. There is a reason they instruct people to turn around and/or act slowly. That gives the cop the time to fully assess what is happening. Not sure about everyone here, but I've seen things happen like someone punching someone unexpectedly and it takes me a few seconds to fully comprehend what happened.

This may not have been perfect policing (don't know) but it was definitely how-not-to-act-with-cops 101.  And I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if additional facts or videos come out.

Sad story that a child lost their life.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Turning around quickly when the cop orders you to stop and show your hands after you've tossed the gun behind a fence in a manner the cop could not see you lose the gun is enough.  Cop knew he was armed in his right hand.  Did not know he had tossed the gun.  And the kid turned around quickly in counterclockwise manner so the cop could not see his hands until it was too late and had already started the trigger pull.  It was a reasonable belief to think the kid was still armed and turning around to shoot at him.  It was in fact not what was going to happen as he had just tossed the gun.  But it was not an unreasonable belief.

But running away is the opposite of a violent or threatening action.  Turning around is not a violent or threatening action.  Putting hands up is not a violent or threatening action. A person needs to be doing something violent or at least threatening to do violence before they are justifiably shot.  The cop perceived he was being threatened, but he wasn't being threatened. The cop's perception was wrong. Turning around isn't a threatening action no matter what a cop perceived.  If this cops training trained him to perceive the act of running away and the act of turning around as violent or threatening, his training was flawed.  Killing someone who is not a threat is a bad shot, each and every time.  

[Gatorubet 30189]

Being armed shouldn't be justification to be killed - or does the 2nd amendment not exist?

Silly take. 2d Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with it. The only legal issue is the reasonableness, or lack thereof, of the decision to shoot in light of the totality of the circumstances. The question is: given the kid was seemingly following the cop’s orders, and had nothing in his hands when shot, did the officer have time to process all that at the moment given the knowledge of the kid packing, the speed it happened and the light conditions, etc.

Current law should absolve him of any civil rights 1983 claim. The only question is did he reasonably feel threatened at the moment when he fired. Tough to beat that. Still, his warning instructions were shitty. Cop was scared, and fired at the kid turning around.

Good case to discuss what is more important, cop or civilian lives. To give blanket protection to cops because they feel threatened is a disincentive to hesitate another second to confirm the need to shoot. The guys with the bullet proof vests might have to take more rounds than they do now to ensure that some innocent civilians live. We literally encourage them to shoot if unsure. Or shoot if too scared to wait. Or lie and say shit happened that made them scared...because they can get off by claiming a ‘furtive movement’.

We need body cams. And less cop immunity. It may mean a few more shot cops. But that would be an overall societal benefit if less innocents were shot as policies changed and encouraged officers not to start shooting whenever scared. True, this may mean different cops with different mindsets than our current crop. Which i’m all for.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

But running away is the opposite of a violent or threatening action.  Turning around is not a violent or threatening action.  Putting hands up is not a violent or threatening action. A person needs to be doing something violent or at least threatening to do violence before they are justifiably shot.  The cop perceived he was being threatened, but he wasn't being threatened. The cop's perception was wrong. Turning around isn't a threatening action no matter what a cop perceived.  If this cops training trained him to perceive the act of running away and the act of turning around as violent or threatening, his training was flawed.  Killing someone who is not a threat is a bad shot, each and every time.  

I disagree.  I think the officer had a reasonable belief he needed to use deadly force to prevent his death or serious bodily injury given the facts and circumstances he was aware of when he started pulling the trigger.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Y'all need to stop engaging that CR troll. He clearly has no intent of faithfully discussing events here and is instead trying to make it all about his political beliefs while making a fool of himself.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

But running away is the opposite of a violent or threatening action.  Turning around is not a violent or threatening action.  Putting hands up is not a violent or threatening action. A person needs to be doing something violent or at least threatening to do violence before they are justifiably shot.  The cop perceived he was being threatened, but he wasn't being threatened. The cop's perception was wrong. Turning around isn't a threatening action no matter what a cop perceived.  If this cops training trained him to perceive the act of running away and the act of turning around as violent or threatening, his training was flawed.  Killing someone who is not a threat is a bad shot, each and every time.  

There are obvious examples of bad policing out there but from the video I saw, you're picking a bad scenario. The cop didn't shoot a fleeing person. He shot a stationary person that was quickly turning around in a dark alley and there was a gun in view. A hardcore criminal would say this kid acted poorly in brandishing a weapon in this case. The act of throwing the weapon meant it was in his hand at some point. In a dark alley, only illuminated by a flashlight. 

This story is almost the polar opposite of the George Floyd case. It's easy to freeze the video and show how the gun is on the ground .3 seconds after it was in his hand.

 

[GopherRock 1765]

Getting back to the killer and the Minneapolis Police Department...

Hope he likes solitary at OPH.

 

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

17 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Civil rights attorney David Henderson on CNBC is a UT law grad and lives in Austin.  Chances of him posting here are like 90%.  

Undergrad as well.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

41 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Undergrad as well.

Maybe he posts here as Johhny Sack, trolling us all.