Beth Moore Leaves Southern Baptist Convention

[Aqua Buddha 14518]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Just looking from afar (ie, Facebook), most of its growth seems to be coming from young families, fleeing the lawless places like Austin and San Marcos, where their children are required to attend school with colored children.

Church budgets aren't funded by young families.  They don't have any money.

[Beau Vine 54001]

3 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

To be fair this was a decade before I met you. I'm sure her family has been run out of town by now. 

I'm only friends with one Jewish family in Wimberley, and God, I hope she's not who you're talking about, because I'm going to have trouble looking her in the eyes after this comment just right now.  And Ewww.

[NorthLoop 14093]

PM me a pic or Facebook link or something cuz I don't remember her name. 

[shnsajax 3589]

10 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

40ish. Good genes/clean living I suppose. 

Oh hell . . . now I am going to hell. 

[F250 28688]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

She'll be cast out as an apostate libtard who was corrupted by the evil of modern Soros society.  And she won't be given a second thought.

Got any other tough questions for us?

She already has been, this has been going on for a few years now. I remember reading about her being accused of "apostasy" (Baptists don't really use fancy terms like that) 4 or 5 years ago. Once she came out against Trump it just accelerated the hate from the fundamentalists.

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

They will cast her out without question, it's on brand.

Does anyone else find it rather odd that the 'we need more religion (specifically white Christian nationalism) in this country' crowd is clueless that the outrage, grievances, and prejudice shown towards others makes their specific type of religion unappealing to most? Instead of thoughtful introspective matters on the state of one's soul, we get the Salem witch trials and the dunking stool/owning the libtards. The quiet Christians are truly the meek of whom Jesus spoke, the rest and these are the ones dominating the scene these days are the OG virtue signalers.

[Wanker Bob 379]

It took her 5 years to publicly come out against trump? Conviniently after he lost the election, attempted to overthrow the government, and is silenced by social media?

So much hypocrisy and bullshit. I don't know how intelligent people can still believe anything about this stuff other than lying to themselves because admitting your parents were fools who brainwashed you in bullshit is tough to come to grips with. I did it and you can too. 

[F250 28688]

13 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

It took her 5 years to publicly come out against trump? Conviniently after he lost the election, attempted to overthrow the government, and is silenced by social media?

So much hypocrisy and bullshit. I don't know how intelligent people can still believe anything about this stuff other than lying to themselves because admitting your parents were fools who brainwashed you in bullshit is tough to come to grips with. I did it and you can too. 

No. She was critical of Trump and Trumpism going back to the 2016 election and took a shit ton of attacks from his supporters within the SBC for years.

 

 

[DaysOff 7853]

14 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

SBC is in a world of shit right now.  Just as the pandemic saw the end of plenty of movie theaters, it's happening with a lot of churches.  A lot of people were all of the sudden not able to go to church, and being at home, found other things to do.  Lot harder to get donations when people are Zooming in (if at all) and not feeling much of a connection to church.

 

Previous pandemics like the Black Death did the same to religious institutions. Instead of strengthening faith many said thanks for nothing God. This may be the same. We bailed out of Methodism when they weren't sure how to treat homosexuality. How about like everyone else since your God created them that way. Unless it's football season I prefer flying weekends anyway.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

14 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

We bailed out of Methodism when they weren't sure how to treat homosexuality

That seems a bit premature given what happened.  But I get where you are coming from.

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

No. She was critical of Trump and Trumpism going back to the 2016 election and took a shit ton of attacks from his supporters within the SBC for years.

 

 

So why is this a story now? Obviously she stayed in the cult during the 5 years as it got progressively worse otherwise this would have been a story years ago. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Wanker Bob

[TwiceHorn 31280]

2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

So why is this a story now? Obviously she stayed in the cult during the 5 years as it got progressively worse otherwise this would have been a story years ago. 

While Trumpism is rampant among Southern Baptists, it's not quite synonymous.  Baptists are not a monolith.

One can be militantly anti-Trump and a Southern Baptist.

She has been pretty militantly anti-Trump and also a Baptist critic and true believer simultaneously.

Her leaving symbolizes that the SBC has gone too far astray.

[Beau Vine 54001]

6 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

So why is this a story now? Obviously she stayed in the cult during the 5 years as it got progressively worse otherwise this would have been a story years ago. 

Because she left the SBC.  Are you fucking illiterate?

[F250 28688]

11 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

So why is this a story now? Obviously she stayed in the cult during the 5 years as it got progressively worse otherwise this would have been a story years ago. 

It has been a story for years. Just because you read about it today doesn't mean it's a new story.

[Ollie Slatt 289]

Kudos to her for sticking it out that long and trying to change things from within.  That had to be incredibly frustrating.  

CSB:  My mom is a huge Beth Moore fan, a lifelong republican, and a southern baptist (though she now attends one of those non-denominational churches that is essentially SB with better branding).   Mom voted for Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020.  I have no doubt that Moore's disdain for Trump played a part in that.    

[Brisketexan 104622]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While Trumpism is rampant among Republicans, it's not quite synonymous. Republicans are not a monolith.

One can be militantly anti-Trump and a Republican.

She has been pretty militantly anti-Trump and also a Republican critic and true believer simultaneously.

Her leaving symbolizes that the Republican party has gone too far astray.

Subbed in "Repub" for "Baptist" to let you see how naive your take is.

You could have EASILY typed that about the GOP in 2016.  And it would have been true, in that moment.  But cults do what cults do: purify.  There is no Republican party but Trumpism now.  That's a done deal.  And there is no Southern Baptist denomination that is not all-in on Trumpism....the process isn't 100% complete yet, but it's getting there rapidly.

[Willfully Horn 7913]

2 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

It took her 5 years to publicly come out against trump? Conviniently after he lost the election, attempted to overthrow the government, and is silenced by social media?

So much hypocrisy and bullshit. I don't know how intelligent people can still believe anything about this stuff other than lying to themselves because admitting your parents were fools who brainwashed you in bullshit is tough to come to grips with. I did it and you can too. 

All religions are differing software with the same outcome: a personal experience of the divine.

-Joseph Campbell (paraphrased)

[Willfully Horn 7913]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Subbed in "Repub" for "Baptist" to let you see how naive your take is.

 But cults do what cults do: purify. 

Spot on. With this latest info, the reaction has been to place her outside of the circle and labeled as 'just a woman so she should shut up' and/or 'she's just trying to salvage her empire.' They are ready to 'cancel' her or brand her with the Puritan 'B' which stood for blasphemy.

[Sawbonz 27434]

Southern Baptists see 13th year of membership decline

 

down 2% since 2018. Not falling as precipitously as Republican Party rolls, but trend since 2007 is not great Bob

Edited March 11, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Because she left the SBC.  Are you fucking illiterate?

That's exactly my point. She barely left now after trump is silenced and gone. Why did she stay the previous 5 years while the religion was publicly in bed with trumpism? 

Has that self serving smell to it. Not Jesus serving. 

[F250 28688]

15 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Spot on. With this latest info, the reaction has been to place her outside of the circle and labeled as 'just a woman so she should shut up' and/or 'she's just trying to salvage her empire.' They are ready to 'cancel' her or brand her with the Puritan 'B' which stood for blasphemy.

That isn't the reaction that has been the controversy. The Trump thing is part of the issue but the bigger issue has been that she went from being someone that only influenced women to having a large following of men which challenged the Southern Baptist rule of women having no authority over men. She has essentially evolved into a preacher which is verboten in the SBC.

If anyone was going to push the SBC towards including women in leadership it was Beth Moore which is what made her struggle so interesting over the past few years.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Subbed in "Repub" for "Baptist" to let you see how naive your take is.

You could have EASILY typed that about the GOP in 2016.  And it would have been true, in that moment.  But cults do what cults do: purify.  There is no Republican party but Trumpism now.  That's a done deal.  And there is no Southern Baptist denomination that is not all-in on Trumpism....the process isn't 100% complete yet, but it's getting there rapidly.

Still, you acknowledge that the descent into Trumpism is a process.

My only point is that she bolted at a later stage of the process.

Not everyone has your omniscient pessimism. 😛

Criticizing her for not bolting earlier is an elevation of the perfect/better over the good.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Just now, F250 said:

That isn't the reaction that has been the controversy. The Trump thing is part of the issue but the bigger issue has been that she went from being someone that only influenced women to having a large following of men which challenged the Southern Baptist rule of women having no authority over men. She has essentially evolved into a preacher which is verboten in the SBC.

If anyone was going to push the SBC towards including women in leadership it was Beth Moore which is what made her struggle so interesting over the past few years.

Appreciate your insight. The Trump aspect was the only part to which I've been even halfway been paying attention. Religion is fascinating because even as I grew up in a church, it didn't always make sense to me that as perspectives and branches (of Christianity especially) changed, divorced from each other, redeveloped, etc many  never liked to admit that they changed in some ways and not others. Or recognizing that when religion is an arm of the government, it doesn't end well for groups of people.

[Brisketexan 104622]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Still, you acknowledge that the descent into Trumpism is a process.

My only point is that she bolted at a later stage of the process.

Not everyone has your omniscient pessimism. 😛

Criticizing her for not bolting earlier is an elevation of the perfect/better over the good.

"Omniscient Pessimist."  Shit, that's going on the old resume.

And I agree that the criticism of her for not bolting earlier isn't really on-target.  Shit, how many people stay in a bad marriage longer than they should....because they invested so much in it, they once loved the other person, etc.?  That's where she is with her denomination.  She loved it, it saved and nurtured her.  Walking away from that is HARD.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Omniscient Pessimist."  Shit, that's going on the old resume.

And I agree that the criticism of her for not bolting earlier isn't really on-target.  Shit, how many people stay in a bad marriage longer than they should....because they invested so much in it, they once loved the other person, etc.?  That's where she is with her denomination.  She loved it, it saved and nurtured her.  Walking away from that is HARD.

Also, I'm not an unabashed fan of Beth Moore.  I find her "teacher not a preacher" while assailing most everything else about Baptist treatment of women inconsistent if not hypocritical.

But every little bit helps, I guess.

[Jersey Man10 3508]

What happened to separation of church and state?

[Brisketexan 104622]

Just now, Jersey Man10 said:

What happened to separation of church and state?

Man.....Y'all Qaeda out front should have told ya.  We're a "Christian" nation, to be governed by "Christian" laws!

 

NOTE: "Christian" is just the label that nativist jackholes apply to all of their beliefs to give them a cloak of sanctity.  It has very little to do with any actual religious faith, and everything to do with lording their power over others.  You know, how pretty much every theocracy works.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

All religions are differing software with the same outcome: a personal experience of the divine.

-Joseph Campbell (paraphrased)

Different paths up the same mountain. (I don’t know who said that.)

[956 Worldwide 34443]

53 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Omniscient Pessimist."  Shit, that's going on the old resume.

And I agree that the criticism of her for not bolting earlier isn't really on-target.  Shit, how many people stay in a bad marriage longer than they should....because they invested so much in it, they once loved the other person, etc.?  That's where she is with her denomination.  She loved it, it saved and nurtured her.  Walking away from that is HARD.

We should not be encouraging or rejoicing when principled conservative voices abandon influential institutions to Trump capture. Sometimes that’s the only ethically honest path, but it’s not healthy for anyone to see these institutions be self-purged. 

[F250 28688]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I find her "teacher not a preacher" while assailing most everything else about Baptist treatment of women inconsistent if not hypocritical.

This is a legitimate criticism. I was curious if she would ever progress but she seemed comfortable remaining within the little niche she carved out as a work around of the standard rule of "women shall remain silent". Personally, I wished she had pushed the envelope for all women rather than just repeating the "teacher not a preacher" mantra but I don't think she really believes in women having authority over men.

 

['stache 21774]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

This is a legitimate criticism. I was curious if she would ever progress but she seemed comfortable remaining within the little niche she carved out as a work around of the standard rule of "women shall remain silent". Personally, I wished she had pushed the envelope for all women rather than just repeating the "teacher not a preacher" mantra but I don't think she really believes in women having authority over men.

 

I've literally never heard the term "teacher not a preacher" but if this is what it means, she's just as brainwashed a zealot as anyone she seeks to criticize. Anyone who reads an ancient book as requiring subordination of women will justify anything they want by citing her religion. So she managed to see the faults of donald trump, big fucking whoop, she's still apparently leading people the way of theocracy and not freedom of thought or purpose.

[F250 28688]

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I've literally never heard the term "teacher not a preacher" but if this is what it means, she's just as brainwashed a zealot as anyone she seeks to criticize. Anyone who reads an ancient book as requiring subordination of women will justify anything they want by citing her religion. So she managed to see the faults of donald trump, big fucking whoop, she's still apparently leading people the way of theocracy and not freedom of thought or purpose.

Ok

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We should not be encouraging or rejoicing when principled conservative voices abandon influential institutions to Trump capture. Sometimes that’s the only ethically honest path, but it’s not healthy for anyone to see these institutions be self-purged. 

Disagree. Some of y'all are acting like her departure won't have any kind of ripple effect. Y'all are implying that she will be purged and the SBC will be "cleansed" and just keep on trucking, maybe even pick up new members. Which is how it's kind of worked with the GOP but that is not apples to apples. The SBC will not be swamped with heathen converts rushing to be saved because the church excised this parasite; it is 100 percent more likely to shrivel their membership than increase it. 

Whereas it seems like for every mainstream Republican Trump ran off, his nu-GOP attracts two more previously disengaged simpletons. 

If reform proves impossible, the best thing you can do is leave and take as many people with you as you can. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

I don't know who this is, but that's probably because I beat her out the door by 35 years.  Also, I expect her leaving is a bigger deal than my leaving was.  But that's not saying much.

['stache 21774]

21 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I don't know who this is, but that's probably because I beat her out the door by 35 years.  Also, I expect her leaving is a bigger deal than my leaving was.  But that's not saying much.

99% she moves on to another "evangelical" religion that supports the same shit, but different somehow