Is the office dead?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Probably not a CR topic, but DT is trash these days. 

Much has been made of remote work becoming the norm. And of flexible office space for those that want to work at the office on occasion.  To those who say the office is dead, I'd say not so fast.

I worked at my office today for the first time in several months. And it was glorious. No wife around. No kids around.  I got more done today than in the last month probably. 

Before Covid, I was flex. 2 or 3 days a week in the office when I chose to be there.  My small company has 2 offices. The CEO runs one, I run the other.   My urban office has been closed for the entirety of the pandemic.  His suburban office has been reopened for about 6 months.  Before the pandemic, everyone was allowed 1 flex day a week, but most weeks, hardly anyone used them and came in every day instead.  But everyone also had their own space. Either an office or at least a desk. 

I'd like to think that flex office will be the way going forward, but Americans just don't work like that.  Our CEO opened his office because he wanted to go in. He openly announced that everyone else based in that office were welcome to stay remote, but could also work on a staggered schedule there with masks. All signed up for the staggered schedule on day one.  But the CEO isn't going in every day, so they have also been competing to be there on the days when he is. And these are employees who are experts in their field and who have the email and client satisfaction track record to prove they have been working great at home.  They have no need to brown nose. 

So I think ultimately, it will go right back to being about facetime with the boss in less than a year. Two employees working in the same department flexing in and out of the office just won't work.  That flex desk will belong to some individual.  They'll compete their way to 60 hours a week both in the office.  The only reason all this remote work worked is because everyone was remote.  When everyone was in the office, at least the boss saw you there even if you were posting on surly and didn't have shit to do.  

That being said, I do run my office so I dont care where people work as long as everyone does their work, and it's in Manhattan so way more expensive than it needs to be.  And we happen to be at the end of our lease.  So we are about to downsize it.  But that could still end up being shortsighted.  Because another thing that really matters is cameraderie.  I'm a huge Astros fan and have a coworker who is a huge Nats fan. That World Series mattered for office mojo.  And neither of us were going to take a flex day during it.  We had to be there to either talk shit or accept shit.  He is lucky that he is good at his job though. Nah, Nats won fair and square. But we all want that type of connection with coworkers. It doesn't happen on zoom and it actually matters. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by FondrenRoad

[DalTxHornFan 3085]

I'm in the professional services space.  I control my client relationships and haven't needed to do office "facetime" for the last 20 years or so.  In fact, when I was on deadline or deep into a client project Pre-Covid, I'd get a hotel room to work in so that I could focus on the client deliverable without office interruptions.  Not having to make excuses for going dark for days at a time has been a great thing.  I'm gonna be taking a hard look at our office lease commitments as the renewals start coming up.

[956 Worldwide 34443]

25 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Probably not a CR topic, but DT is trash these days. 

Much has been made of remote work becoming the norm. And of flexible office space for those that want to work at the office on occasion.  To those who say the office is dead, I'd say not so fast.

I worked at my office today for the first time in several months. And it was glorious. No wife around. No kids around.  I got more done today than in the last month probably. 

Before Covid, I was flex. 2 or 3 days a week in the office when I chose to be there.  My small company has 2 offices. The CEO runs one, I run the other.   My urban office has been closed for the entirety of the pandemic.  His suburban office has been reopened for about 6 months.  Before the pandemic, everyone was allowed 1 flex day a week, but most weeks, hardly anyone used them and came in every day instead.  But everyone also had their own space. Either an office or at least a desk. 

I'd like to think that flex office will be the way going forward, but Americans just don't work like that.  Our CEO opened his office because he wanted to go in. He openly announced that everyone else based in that office were welcome to stay remote, but could also work on a staggered schedule there with masks. All signed up for the staggered schedule on day one.  But the CEO isn't going in every day, so they have also been competing to be there on the days when he is. And these are employees who are experts in their field and who have the email and client satisfaction track record to prove they have been working great at home.  They have no need to brown nose. 

So I think ultimately, it will go right back to being about facetime with the boss in less than a year. Two employees working in the same department flexing in and out of the office just won't work.  That flex desk will belong to some individual.  They'll compete their way to 60 hours a week both in the office.  The only reason all this remote work worked is because everyone was remote.  When everyone was in the office, at least the boss saw you there even if you were posting on surly and didn't have shit to do.  

That being said, I do run my office so I dont care where people work as long as everyone does their work, and it's in Manhattan so way more expensive than it needs to be.  And we happen to be at the end of our lease.  So we are about to downsize it.  But that could still end up being shortsighted.  Because another thing that really matters is cameraderie.  I'm a huge Astros fan and have a coworker who is a huge Nats fan. That World Series mattered for office mojo.  And neither of us were going to take a flex day during it.  We had to be there to either talk shit or accept shit.  He is lucky that he is good at his job though. Nah, Nats won fair and square. But we all want that type of connection with coworkers. It doesn't happen on zoom and it actually matters. 

Agree with most of this. I think some processes and tasks can be done flex or entirely from home and it makes a lot of sense to allow people to do that. But anything that’s at all creative, that is at all collaborative— we underestimated the value of hallway conversations and the proverbial watercoooler chat.  You can’t schedule that stuff around a Zoom call. The loss of someone sticking their head in an office and saying “hey, I want to get your take.....” is just now being appreciated. 
 

I also run my office and have been advocating max home office for my subordinates’ sake. But they feel the lack of facetime with me and with each other; and it’s undoubtably effecting my ability to give—and get— what I need. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

23 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I'm in the professional services space.  I control my client relationships and haven't needed to do office "facetime" for the last 20 years or so.  In fact, when I was on deadline or deep into a client project Pre-Covid, I'd get a hotel room to work in so that I could focus on the client deliverable without office interruptions.  Not having to make excuses for going dark for days at a time has been a great thing.  I'm gonna be taking a hard look at our office lease commitments as the renewals start coming up.

Im in the same space, and that's all great. Prior to covid, I was also more productive away from the office. But covid has made me understand the need for the office. 

But I will also ask.  At your office, do you count even a single person as a friend?  Had you been entirely remote from the start, its unlikely that you would know any of them very well. 

Perhaps my experience is colored by the fact that I moved to a new city, where I wanted to live, and worked entry level office work at the start. I'm still friends with many of my coworkers from the beginning.  Going on 20 years now.  One of them was the best man at my wedding even.  Had I met them on zoom with the occasional forced get together, I wouldn't have known them at all.  But also, I became an effective manager through mutual trust. Is that possible remote only?  

But there always has been and will be a place for folks who work like you. And really I'm one too. I do manage people, but I'm also the backstop for them. And I also work better in the solo dark place. Which is why the "no wife there, no kids there" part of my office post may be the truest part. Most people just aren't wired like that though.  The Nats fan coworker needs to throw ideas off me.  Sometimes people don't want to write the question they need to ask in email. And even with me, there are times I would ask "what do you think about this?" but I don't because it isnt for email and I'm not going to zoom it. 

But also maybe I'm weird because I truly loathe video calls. To my core. They really change my whole being. In person meetings, fantastic. Audio, great. Video, fuck everyone. In fact, one of my biggest issues with the covid world is that clients that used to be perfectly happy with audio conference calls now want video. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by FondrenRoad

[Tom 2959]

I wish we'd get a choice or flex, but I have a feeling we'll all be back at the office once this is over.  We've been on a rotating schedule in the office while following the county's 33% and then 50% limited capacity orders.  But we were never all allowed to stay home all at once after the complete shut down was lifted last summer.  Management never chooses to leave the office and work at home, and they originally fought the idea of us working from home in the first place.  They're pretty old fashioned.

The main thing is I'd love the freedom to pick up and  move anywhere I want without having to worry about how long the commute is. I'd love to not fight traffic everyday like pre-covid.  This past year has proven we don't need the office to do anything for our jobs.  The only thing I'd miss is seeing the coworkers that I like now and again.  The lack of real human interaction is the worst part of working from home for me.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Tom

[jimmyjazz 45558]

I am twice as productive working from home as I am M-F in the office.  I work 7-10 hours every day, Monday-Sunday, and I am nowhere near as close to as fatigued as I was doing the daily grind.  I am the living breathing example of why work from home can work.  Of course, my job is tailor made for it, but that doesn't change the fact that I am providing much more value at home than I did at the office.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Agree with most of this. I think some processes and tasks can be done flex or entirely from home and it makes a lot of sense to allow people to do that. But anything that’s at all creative, that is at all collaborative— we underestimated the value of hallway conversations and the proverbial watercoooler chat.  You can’t schedule that stuff around a Zoom call. The loss of someone sticking their head in an office and saying “hey, I want to get your take.....” is just now being appreciated. 
 

I also run my office and have been advocating max home office for my subordinates’ sake. But they feel the lack of facetime with me and with each other; and it’s undoubtably effecting my ability to give—and get— what I need. 

There is the "work" aspect of it, but cameraderie may actually be more important, and it just doesn't happen all remote. 

The aforementioned coworker who was the best man at my wedding was actually hired to replace me when I was quitting a job to go to law school. I later came back and worked a higher level job in the exact same department to make money during law school.  Because I also made a connection with the department head. None of that happens in a remote only world. And that place was one of the 10 largest law firms in the world.  To be fair though, I am also very good at what I do.  I am the backstop who became a manager.  I've never been just a manager. That is still a work in progress. 

[InkaUtexas 25518]

Been working remote since 2008. Don't care if you are wearing bunny slippers, get your shit done.

 

That said, seeing a few clients dropping their Northern Virgina leases and spending more on home offices. They finally realized equipment dies when you beat the hell out of it. For me, fuck offices.  Let me come in the 1 day my BD team needs to meet, white board in person, and then everyone get their butts to happy hour. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I am twice as productive working from home as I am M-F in the office.  I work 7-10 hours every day, Monday-Sunday, and I am nowhere near as close to as fatigued as I was doing the daily grind.  I am the living breathing example of why work from home can work.  Of course, my job is tailor made for it, but that doesn't change the fact that I am providing much more value at home than I did at the office.

Before covid, I did 2 or 3 days a week in the office, and the rest at home. At that time, I was absolutely more productive at home. My daughter was in school, and in day care til 5 after school. My wife was either working or physically at her own school. Yes, she is over 40 and going for a degree. And I could work from home in blissful silence. 

But during covid, my wife is doing school remotely and tries to stay quiet. Tries. My daughter is at school until 2 pm, 2 days per week, and remote schooled the other 3. On those 2 days my daughter is at school, I do actually get some things done until 2 pm. But when she is there, almost nothing. Don't get me wrong though. I'd love to have play time all the time with my daughter, but then how are we gonna eat?  

I am sensing though, that a lot of yall don't have friends at work. I dont know whether that's good or bad in the long run. But as someone who moved to a city knowing nobody, I would not have wanted to be remote then for sure, even if I could be now. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by FondrenRoad

[DalTxHornFan 3085]

I confess that I am not doing a very good job of mentoring younger folks these days.  That said -- most of the mentoring that I received when I was a greenhorn didn't happen in the office -- it was over drinks after hours in the evening.  Once the senior partners learned that I could hang with them and knew some shit, they started trusting me with more important client relationships.

Edited March 11, 2021 by DalTxHornFan

[shnsajax 3589]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I am twice as productive working from home as I am M-F in the office.  I work 7-10 hours every day, Monday-Sunday, and I am nowhere near as close to as fatigued as I was doing the daily grind.  I am the living breathing example of why work from home can work.  Of course, my job is tailor made for it, but that doesn't change the fact that I am providing much more value at home than I did at the office.

All of this. My previous company in Bellevue, Washington everyone spent 2+ hours commuting every day and it created a lot of waste once you are in the office & less time with the family. Now I wake up at 7:45, kids play till I get up. Make breakfast for them, and walk into home office at 8:30. Of course with online school this year things are a little different, but it won't be much different next year dropping them off 2 miles away at 8:30 and being back home.

To each their own, but I have no problems with working from home 95% of the time. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I confess that I am not doing a very good job of mentoring younger folks these days.  That said -- most of the mentoring that I received wasn't in the office -- it was over drinks after hours in the evening.  Once the senior partners learned that I could hang with them and knew some shit, they started trusting me with more important client relationships.

Right. For me too. But there isn't an entry point now to even make those drinks happen. Organically at least. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

All of this. My previous company in Bellevue, Washington everyone spent 2+ hours commuting every day and it created a lot of waste once you are in the office & less time with the family. Now I wake up at 7:45, kids play till I get up. Make breakfast for them, and walk into home office at 8:30. Of course with online school this year things are a little different, but it won't be much different next year dropping them off 2 miles away at 8:30 and being back home.

To each their own, but I have no problems with working from home 95% of the time. 

Are you friends with any of those people you worked with in Bellevue?

And I would never commute 2 hours. 30 minutes is my limit. And I will still avoid the morning rush, work at home in the morning, and stroll in at 1030 to 11. 

[UpperWestside 6136]

I think that long-term the mental health of the American worker will be better if they either work at home or have a flex schedule where they are in the office a couple of days per week. This pandemic has shown that the old way of doing things was not good for the overall health of people who were commuting into work. There are certain jobs where you have to be there in-person. I will have one of those jobs starting in the fall. However, if you are in a career where working from home is an option it should be pursued if your company will still allow it once the pandemic ends.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I think that long-term the mental health of the American worker will be better if they either work at home or have a flex schedule where they are in the office a couple of days per week. This pandemic has shown that the old way of doing things was not good for the overall health of people who were commuting into work. There are certain jobs where you have to be there in-person. I will have one of those jobs starting in the fall. However, if you are in a career where working from home is an option it should be pursued if your company will still allow it once the pandemic ends.

Are you single or married?

[shnsajax 3589]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Are you friends with any of those people you worked with in Bellevue?

And I would never commute 2 hours. 30 minutes is my limit. And I will still avoid the morning rush, work at home in the morning, and stroll in at 1030 to 11. 

Seattle traffic is just garbage and there is no public transportation to Bellevue yet. I had similar issues at times going from Flower Mound into Dallas. If you can flex your office schedule into 4-5 hour chunks from 10:30-3:30 I could see why its fun, but I also don't fully understand the point. I mean during the World Cup when we all dock into a conference room and pretend to work sure, and lets have the company order in some lunch too.

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Are you single or married?

Not married yet, but I understand the challenges faced by those who have them. I will gladly welcome those challenges when they come even though I have an aversion to noise and am comfortable by myself. I look at the world a little differently after what happened to me personally in 2020 so that might have something to do with having somewhat rose colored glasses about this subject. 

[swraith 336]

I think this topic splits into segments.

Our 2 offices, Austin and Chicago, have been closed for a year. Staff has worked remote 100% the entire year. We were 100% an 8 to 5, Monday to Friday shop pre-Covid. I can easily spend 6 hours a day on Teams in meetings, audio or video, managing staff from home now.

We are putting plans in place to dump both office leases. Nobody except the top guy for each office has even been in the buildings the past year.

Line level staff that just do their daily tasks/grind love the remote work. None of them voice any desire to return. They all love having zero commute. None of them seem to care about the lack of socialization but it does concern me. Even our call center is 100% work from home now. Those people are never coming back to the office. Waste of money.

Creatives want a collaboration space. Our Marketing department. Our high level software engineers/architects. They want to do the bulk of their work remotely, but they want a whiteboard and conference room for collaboration sessions.

So we will be looking for office footprints that are 25% of what we currently have.

We have hired new staff during the last year. Integrating with the new team members takes a different approach.

The people in our offices are not friends. They are coworkers. Our under 30 crowd would grab drinks after work...but anybody with kids...they stopped that so missing out on drinks after work...I don’t miss it.

I plan to do work lunches before/after in person collaboration sessions.

Flex schedules seem like they just suck. Never know where anybody is on any given day. At least now...with everyone remote...I know I can get anybody on Teams in a reasonable timeframe.

I will never return to a full office schedule with my current company.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, shnsajax said:

Seattle traffic is just garbage and there is no public transportation to Bellevue yet. I had similar issues at times going from Flower Mound into Dallas. If you can flex your office schedule into 4-5 hour chunks from 10:30-3:30 I could see why its fun, but I also don't fully understand the point. I mean during the World Cup when we all dock into a conference room and pretend to work sure, and lets have the company order in some lunch too.

A 2 hour commute is never worth it. Especially doing a reverse commute. You could live in Bellevue for cheaper.  But I get it. You want to live where you want to live. For one of my first jobs post college, I drove from South Austin to Round Rock. Lasted about 6 months and quit with nothing.  I could not stand the commute.  But I dont expect everyone to be me. I moved to NYC specifically not to have to drive to work, had less than 2000 dollars to my name, no job lined up, but I did have a couch to sleep on. Here I am 20 years later doing quite alright in NYC. Maybe I could have done that in a remote environment. But probably not.  So I do get it. Driving commutes do steal your soul. But that is really a problem with your local urban planners. You think you live in cities, but most of you don't. 

[956 Worldwide 34443]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Im in the same space, and that's all great. Prior to covid, I was also more productive away from the office. But covid has made me understand the need for the office. 

But I will also ask.  At your office, do you count even a single person as a friend?  Had you been entirely remote from the start, its unlikely that you would know any of them very well. 

Perhaps my experience is colored by the fact that I moved to a new city, where I wanted to live, and worked entry level office work at the start. I'm still friends with many of my coworkers from the beginning.  Going on 20 years now.  One of them was the best man at my wedding even.  Had I met them on zoom with the occasional forced get together, I wouldn't have known them at all.  But also, I became an effective manager through mutual trust. Is that possible remote only?  

But there always has been and will be a place for folks who work like you. And really I'm one too. I do manage people, but I'm also the backstop for them. And I also work better in the solo dark place. Which is why the "no wife there, no kids there" part of my office post may be the truest part. Most people just aren't wired like that though.  The Nats fan coworker needs to throw ideas off me.  Sometimes people don't want to write the question they need to ask in email. And even with me, there are times I would ask "what do you think about this?" but I don't because it isnt for email and I'm not going to zoom it. 

But also maybe I'm weird because I truly loathe video calls. To my core. They really change my whole being. In person meetings, fantastic. Audio, great. Video, fuck everyone. In fact, one of my biggest issues with the covid world is that clients that used to be perfectly happy with audio conference calls now want video. 

I’m here for this. Video calls are for checking in with kids when I travel or for allowing said kids to see their grandparents. I loathe work video calling and will actively look for excuses to just do a call instead.

It would be interesting to see bosses’ assessments of productivity versus people’s own assessments. I’ll say this,  I have absolutely noticed that my best are still getting things done and maybe even working harder. My stragglers are finding ways to do less, I notice it, and they are most vocal about “wanting to be more flexible when this is over.”

Then there are the things that are no one’s fault.  Like a talented new employee, if we are in the office maybe I kick a project down and say “give this a shot and come find me when you get stuck” and it’s learning time. Now— I’ll do it myself, especially since I am still planning to go back to normal and have that chance. If we went permanently to distance work, I’d have to reassess. And that’s fundamentally my problem as a boss, I get it, but I don’t have to like it. I will never enjoy mentoring via Zoom.

Edited March 11, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Not married yet, but I understand the challenges faced by those who have them. I will gladly welcome those challenges when they come even though I have an aversion to noise and am comfortable by myself. I look at the world a little differently after what happened to me personally in 2020 so that might have something to do with having somewhat rose colored glasses about this subject. 

I had the opposite thought. As a married person with a child, covid has been irritating but never dark or challenging. Remembering my single self, I know it would have been much harder for me then. But everyone is different. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 minutes ago, swraith said:

I think this topic splits into segments.

Our 2 offices, Austin and Chicago, have been closed for a year. Staff has worked remote 100% the entire year. We were 100% an 8 to 5, Monday to Friday shop pre-Covid. I can easily spend 6 hours a day on Teams in meetings, audio or video, managing staff from home now.

We are putting plans in place to dump both office leases. Nobody except the top guy for each office has even been in the buildings the past year.

Line level staff that just do their daily tasks/grind love the remote work. None of them voice any desire to return. They all love having zero commute. None of them seem to care about the lack of socialization but it does concern me. Even our call center is 100% work from home now. Those people are never coming back to the office. Waste of money.

Creatives want a collaboration space. Our Marketing department. Our high level software engineers/architects. They want to do the bulk of their work remotely, but they want a whiteboard and conference room for collaboration sessions.

So we will be looking for office footprints that are 25% of what we currently have.

We have hired new staff during the last year. Integrating with the new team members takes a different approach.

The people in our offices are not friends. They are coworkers. Our under 30 crowd would grab drinks after work...but anybody with kids...they stopped that so missing out on drinks after work...I don’t miss it.

I plan to do work lunches before/after in person collaboration sessions.

Flex schedules seem like they just suck. Never know where anybody is on any given day. At least now...with everyone remote...I know I can get anybody on Teams in a reasonable timeframe.

I will never return to a full office schedule with my current company.

That all sounds miserable. What do you do?

[shnsajax 3589]

9 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

A 2 hour commute is never worth it. Especially doing a reverse commute. You could live in Bellevue for cheaper.  But I get it. You want to live where you want to live. For one of my first jobs post college, I drove from South Austin to Round Rock. Lasted about 6 months and quit with nothing.  I could not stand the commute.  But I dont expect everyone to be me. I moved to NYC specifically not to have to drive to work, had less than 2000 dollars to my name, no job lined up, but I did have a couch to sleep on. Here I am 20 years later doing quite alright in NYC. Maybe I could have done that in a remote environment. But probably not.  So I do get it. Driving commutes do steal your soul. But that is really a problem with your local urban planners. You think you live in cities, but most of you don't. 

This right here is the key, and I would guess that fits a nice % of us.

[UpperWestside 6136]

14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I had the opposite thought. As a married person with a child, covid has been irritating but never dark or challenging. Remembering my single self, I know it would have been much harder for me then. But everyone is different. 

I have read and listened to too many folks who have not shared enjoyable experiences being around their family so much for the last year. I feel sad when I hear that because what an opportunity to grow closer with those you love and care about the most. I am glad that you seem to have had a good experience being around your family more.

Being single for me made for a 2020 that wound up being a great year personally. I feel a bit guilty saying that still because of what we endured as a country over the last year. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by UpperWestside

[FondrenRoad 4378]

25 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’m here for this. Video calls are for checking in with kids when I travel or for allowing said kids to see their grandparents. I loathe work video calling and will actively look for excuses to just do a call instead.

It would be interesting to see bosses’ assessments of productivity versus people’s own assessments. I’ll say this,  I have absolutely noticed that my best are still getting things done and maybe even working harder. My stragglers are finding ways to do less, I notice it, and they are most vocal about “wanting to be more flexible when this is over.”

Then there are the things that are no one’s fault.  Like a talented new employee, if we are in the office maybe I kick a project down and say “give this a shot and come find me when you get stuck” and it’s learning time. Now— I’ll do it myself, especially since I am still planning to go back to normal and have that chance. If we went permanently to distance work, I’d have to reassess. And that’s fundamentally my problem as a boss, I get it, but I don’t have to like it. I will never enjoy mentoring via Zoom.

The last paragraph isn't your fault though.  I have a still open position that can't be filled because I need someone that knows what they're doing and my CEO wants to lowball them. Historically, this position would be a hire up position.  But there is nobody to hire up. 

But at one time, I was that talented new employee. I climbed a ladder that was not even offered half the time. And what I want out of an employee is the same. They should want my job. But they also have to be willing to wait when waiting arises. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

No, the office will return. But the see-saw of people who want to work from home vs people who like going to the office will always fluctuate. Ultimately it will come down to cost savings vs productivity, and employee management. Some companies will offer super flex schedules and some will not. Are companies losing talent to ones that offer those? Im sure someone will do a study on it. Then size of company matters, the smaller ones can save a ton by working remote. 
 

There’s not going to be a one size fits all 

[Tom 2959]

I worked for a company about 8 years ago where after you had been with them for a full year, you could put in a request to work from home if you desired to.  They'd look at your performance and if you had proven to be reliable, it wasn't a problem. It was encouraged due to limited office space and they needed that space for new hires.  Some chose to stay in office, but most worked remotely.  

I think that's the way to go, honestly.  If your job responsibilities allow for it and the employee has proven themselves reliable, give people a simple choice.  Companies could save a ton of money on downsizing their office space.

My current company takes up the equivalent of two floors in our building now.  We could cut that in half or more if they'd give people a choice to permanently work remotely after this ends.

[tantric superman 4667]

We've got about 20 people in an in-house legal department set up.  The entire legal department is 100+, but we have a subset in our office.

We could get by with having a copier/mail room (small office) and maybe one small conference room and get rid of all the individual offices.

For face time, we could do weekly zoom calls or coffee shop meetings, as the 20 people in our group are divided into sub-specialities, with the biggest group being four people.

I hate not being able to get out of the house and into the office.  But to be honest, having to work from my somewhat small home has forced me to work on a bit of the feng shui of the home, which has been nice.  Plus the dog sitting next to me is wonderful.

[6th Street 6357]

7 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’m here for this. Video calls are for checking in with kids when I travel or for allowing said kids to see their grandparents. I loathe work video calling and will actively look for excuses to just do a call instead.

It would be interesting to see bosses’ assessments of productivity versus people’s own assessments. I’ll say this,  I have absolutely noticed that my best are still getting things done and maybe even working harder. My stragglers are finding ways to do less, I notice it, and they are most vocal about “wanting to be more flexible when this is over.”

Then there are the things that are no one’s fault.  Like a talented new employee, if we are in the office maybe I kick a project down and say “give this a shot and come find me when you get stuck” and it’s learning time. Now— I’ll do it myself, especially since I am still planning to go back to normal and have that chance. If we went permanently to distance work, I’d have to reassess. And that’s fundamentally my problem as a boss, I get it, but I don’t have to like it. I will never enjoy mentoring via Zoom.

Or you could just turn off video

[Brisketexan 104624]

I'm pretty f'n tired of Zoom calls.  We collaborate, a lot.  And that just happens more effectively, and more often, when we're physically together.  It's been more difficult to make that happen over Zoom.  The "have you got a minute?" conversations are hugely important, and they just don't happen when everyone is remote.

Also, I am exhausted.  Because I have no separation between home and work.  Yes, I worked after hours before, took calls and emails in the evening, etc.  But now, there's a broad understanding and expectation that "you're at work".....pretty much every waking hour of the day.  There's no separation.  There's no "he's left for the day" (again, if it is important, or someone I really want/need to talk to, I took those calls before).  People call and send you an email at 9:00 pm, and expect you to answer.  I have had a year of little downtime.

And, for courtroom and deposition work, I don't like video.  I DO think it will stay to some degree (makes much more sense for everyone to appear by Zoom for a 15 minute status conference in Dallas than have everyone drive up for it), but courtrooms are already starting to open back up.

I do see more of us taking advantage of the ability to work remotely from time to time.  Maybe we take longer vacations, because we can make one week of it just a working vacation.  And our younger employees will surely take some days to work at home.  I think the flexibility will be a positive change....but I still think the office will be the rule.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Brisketexan

[tantric superman 4667]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm pretty f'n tired of Zoom calls. 

I'm a TEAMS man, myself.

[Brisketexan 104624]

Just now, tantric superman said:

I'm a TEAMS man, myself.

You can take Zooms, Teams, and Webex, roll them into a ball, jam that ball up your ass, and launch yourself into the sun.

With all due respect.

[Aqua Buddha 14518]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm pretty f'n tired of Zoom calls.  We collaborate, a lot.  And that just happens more effectively, and more often, when we're physically together.  It's been more difficult to make that happen over Zoom.  The "have you got a minute?" conversations are hugely important, and they just don't happen when everyone is remote.

Also, I am exhausted.  Because I have no separation between home and work.  Yes, I worked after hours before, took calls and emails in the evening, etc.  But now, there's a broad understanding and expectation that "you're at work".....pretty much every waking hour of the day.  There's no separation.  There's no "he's left for the day" (again, if it is important, or someone I really want/need to talk to, I took those calls before).  People call and send you an email at 9:00 pm, and expect you to answer.  I have had a year of little downtime.

And, for courtroom and deposition work, I don't like video.  I DO think it will stay to some degree (makes much more sense for everyone to appear by Zoom for a 15 minute status conference in Dallas than have everyone drive up for it), but courtrooms are already starting to open back up.

I do see more of us taking advantage of the ability to work remotely from time to time.  Maybe we take longer vacations, because we can make one week of it just a working vacation.  And our younger employees will surely take some days to work at home.  I think the flexibility will be a positive change....but I still think the office will be the rule.

This right here.  I hate this shit for all of these reasons.

Each company will have their own unique real estate footprint but I think long term, we'll sort of settle on a hybrid approach.  We can work from home a few days a week for kid stuff but in the office as needed.  The real collaboration isn't in the meeting, it's right after the meeting.

[YChang 3430]

3/4 of my team is back in Cupertino, so there’s no reason for me to even be in the office. But, I’m really tired of working from home all the time as well. I’m looking forward to returning for a day or two a week only. Definitely not more productive at home—my attention span can wander off easily.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

On the one hand I like not having a commute, but on the other, I feel like I live at work. It’s hard to separate personal life from work and then when I can turn it off, there’s no time to decompress. Frankly, I will welcome going into an office once I’m vaxed 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6554]

I have worked from home for 20 years now for 2 different companies.  I usually travel a good bit in my role (that ended during the pandemic) but I see zero reason to ever work day in day out in an office again.  I hit the office down in Austin once a quarter and that is enough.  Working from home allows me to watch tv, golf, hang out by the pool all day long so you can tell I am well able to handle my work at home job.

[RDCanecutter 26276]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You can take Zooms, Teams, and Webex, roll them into a ball, jam that ball up your ass, and launch yourself into the sun.

With all due respect.

I hate Zoom, Slack, and whatever else anybody loves the same way a Trumpkin hates a mask.

Not really in an office type living-- most days i work in a home studio and I used to teach college (but see first sentence.) I enjoyed the tag-in tag-out atmosphere in a school office, and art shows were a blast.

What I really miss is having a space with other artists to work in that also gets foot traffic. Had a space like that more than a year ago and we did well on sales, plus the "working" artists (as opposed to "talk about being an artist" artists) all knocked out a ton of product, just easier to do when you're surrounded by others doing it.

We have a space like that now but I am just dropping off work to sell there because I don't need any jackwagons that still don't know how to cover their noses rolling up on me.

[DDD Dad 14251]

I'm seriously considering dropping my office and going to a shared office setup.  But then I'd have to deal with all my furniture.  So I'll probably just stay here for a bit longer.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

14 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I'm seriously considering dropping my office and going to a shared office setup.  But then I'd have to deal with all my furniture.  So I'll probably just stay here for a bit longer.

With the shared office, dont you have to adjust the work area every day to suit your needs after someone else did the same the day before?  Sounds like getting in the driver seat after my wife drove the car last. Can never quite get it back exactly how I like it. 

[kevwun 15651]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You can take Zooms, Teams, and Webex, roll them into a ball, jam that ball up your ass, and launch yourself into the sun.

With all due respect.

I hope I never have to hear about Zoom again when this is over.  I hate it so much.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

After working at home for a year, for my job I expect I'll probably end up in the office 2 days a week, at home the rest of the time. Which I can live with.  Working remote has its drawbacks as mentioned, but I don't want to drive to and from the office every day for no reason either.  A lot of our people HAVE to be there physically because of production needs, test labs, security etc., so we still have to have an office, but we will probably end up subleasing some of our office space and those of us who can only coming in periodically.

[956 Worldwide 34443]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

I'm a TEAMS man, myself.

All of these suck so hard, but preferring TEAMS is like preferring Sbarro in a fast food discussion. WTF? 

[gurt 736]

I am starting a new fully remote job this coming Monday. I’ll miss having the office camaraderie but not more than I enjoy the flexibility of WFH. I love me a good lunch nap.

We can now move more out into the country instead of always having to consider the commute. I enjoy my wife’s company, and us both being WFH this last year has only strengthened our marriage.

It will be a different experience starting out remote instead of building the relationships first then being remote like it was in 2020. But I’ve never been the type to hang out a ton with coworkers. I always get along fine but I have enough friends outside of work to where I don’t feel like I need to spend time with them outside work hours. All we end up talking about is work anyways.

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

You can take Zooms, Teams, and Webex, roll them into a ball, jam that ball up your ass, and launch yourself into the sun.

With all due respect.

You're the gato lawyer, aren't you?

[Brisketexan 104624]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

You're the gato lawyer, aren't you?

No.  I am not a cat.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm pretty f'n tired of Zoom calls.  We collaborate, a lot.  And that just happens more effectively, and more often, when we're physically together.  It's been more difficult to make that happen over Zoom.  The "have you got a minute?" conversations are hugely important, and they just don't happen when everyone is remote.

 

 

I'm on the other side of this one. I think that the extra effort to do a Zoom or GoToMeeting weeds out conversations that aren't really that important. I've worked from home for about 8 years and the important stuff always gets taken care off via web meetings and I avoid probably 10+ hours a week of useless meetings that office dwellers have.

It probably depends on your industry and profession, though.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

I'm a TEAMS man, myself.

Zoom sucks, but Teams is a monstrosity. Sets my laptop on fire when it's running. Nobody asked to have everything in one app. I was fine using Skype for business and SharePoint separately. And since my company uses Teams chat now, we also need it on our phones which shortens the battery life to about 15 minutes.  The old Microsoft was better. The customer used to always be right. Now the customer is forced to take updates whether they want to or not.  

[Sbbruin 21736]

This is my business, so I am seeing this all very first hand.  We have about 5 million sf of office space.  The pandemic has created absolute chaos, but we are starting to see how things will likely shake out.  Fortunately, prior to the pandemic, we had been experiencing the greatest sustained demand I have seen in my entire 30 year career.  I think our portfolio had to have been about 99% occupied (or at least leased) prior to this.  So we were in a good position to weather the blow.  

I think it is going to be very industry specific.  The majority of our portfolio is comprised of entertainment tenants.  They have been absolutely crushed by this as production essentially came to a screeching halt.  Most of the big studios pulled 99% of their employees out of the office.  And now many have had mass layoffs.  But the industry itself I don't think is going to work nearly as well remotely as it is very collaborative by its nature.  Productivity levels just can't be as high.  In our more traditional buildings (i.e. those with your service industry types- law, accounting, insurance, etc), there has been a lot less disruption.  And I think many of those will return to business as usual, eventually.  BUT, it is going to create a massive reshuffling of the deck.  There is going to be a lot of "right-sizing" going on over the next few years.  Which is going to be very costly for us.  Landlords make their money not on the initial deal (at least not that much), but on the renewals.  Initial transaction costs- tenant improvements, commissions, downtime, etc- suck years of profit out of a deal.  So as companies determine what their new "normal" will be, there is going to be the greatest reshuffling we'll have ever seen.  So it is going to be a very bumpy road.  But a couple of things will make it manageable from a vacancy standpoint.  There has been a persistent increase in density over the last 15-20 years.  Office that previously had a large percentage of private offices and a density of say 3 people per 1,000 sf have slowly gone to more open plan and a density closer to 5/1000, or more.  What we expect, and are already starting to see, is a shift back to lower density and more private offices.  SO if a company previously had 50 people in 10,000 sf, they may go to 30 people in that same 10,000 feet, and have the other 20 WFH.  OR, they will need to take 15,000 sf for the same number of people.  There will be a period of a couple of years where overall vacancy is up a bit, but ultimately I think it finds its level again.  Companies are already finding that WFH is really stymying development of younger employees that rely on mentoring and the energy of an office environment.  A lot of longtime employees, like a lot of surly oldsters, can adapt pretty easily, but development is critical for long-term health and growth.  You can liken it to your kids and online/remote learning.  It works in a pinch, but isn't nearly as effective in developing the whole student as a live teaching environment.  

I could go on for pages on this.  But this is my perspective.  For now. 

[Sbbruin 21736]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Zoom sucks, but Teams is a monstrosity. Sets my laptop on fire when it's running. Nobody asked to have everything in one app. I was fine using Skype for business and SharePoint separately. And since my company uses Teams chat now, we also need it on our phones which shortens the battery life to about 15 minutes.  The old Microsoft was better. The customer used to always be right. Now the customer is forced to take updates whether they want to or not.  

I had my IT remove the Teams chat program from my laptop.  It would launch every time I turned my computer on, and I NEVER used it.  Some of the youngsters do, but I have dual monitors at my desk and one almost always has my outlook on it as that's how I deal with people- email.  So you need something?  Send me a fucking email.  

[Dirk X West 772]

I work on campus at UT (in a non-faculty job) and was, not exactly compelled, but pressured to work half the week in my office starting last August by my supervisor, who really prefers working in the office and, not coincidentally, lives within walking distance of campus.

Although a change in a routine (i.e, compared to working exclusively from home, as I did from March to early August last year) was nice at first, it's just totally pointless.  I sit in my office and work on my laptop without seeing anyone face to face (we do zoom meetings even when most of us in my dept. are on campus, and most grad students and faculty are staying the hell away) just like I would at home, and the commute, while not nearly as bad as it would be due to decreased traffic, is such a waste of time and resources. 

It'll be interesting to see how much telecommuting will be allowed once the pandemic is over-ish, but I'm not optimistic, as there are supervisors like mine all over campus who have never liked their supervisees working at home and will use whatever power they have to prevent it.  It's a shame, though, as my life has been so much better working from home.  I sleep more and exercise more, as I have more time, and I have been every bit as productive working from home as I was before the pandemic started.