Private schools are indefensible

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Just now, TexasHooch said:

Those brackets always crack me up.  People take their sports following experience from 20 years ago then mash it up with their regional/conference bias and spit out a theory on the entire hierarchy of basketball.

Bro do you even kenpom? 🤣

[midtown 3350]

14 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

hese threads always crack me up. People take their educational experience from 40 years ago then mash it up with their political/racial views and spit out a theory on the entire educational system of the United States.

Actually people are constantly studying education models.  Malcom Gladwell had a few chapters about it in one of his books.  Can't remember which one.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

5 minutes ago, midtown said:

Actually people are constantly studying education models.  Malcom Gladwell had a few chapters about it in one of his books.  Can't remember which one.

I’m well aware as it’s my life’s work. There’s amazing research out there. My off hand comment was more about how the average person forms their opinion on educational systems. It’s widely shaped by world view and personal experiences with the educational system. Nothing wrong with that as it’s human nature. But when you take those individual experiences and extrapolate it out to a view of a system that varies widely in different areas, it doesn’t do much good.

The conversations here are also from people that fit in one or more of these categories: white, college educated, middle or high ses. Their needs and desires are vastly different from a public school system that largely serves children that are not white, don’t have college educated parents, and are low ses. I work at a school that people on here send their kids to. But I have also worked in poor/minority schools. No one size fits all approach is going to be successful. 

[Bevo 13829]

33 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I’m well aware as it’s my life’s work. There’s amazing research out there. My off hand comment was more about how the average person forms their opinion on educational systems. It’s widely shaped by world view and personal experiences with the educational system. Nothing wrong with that as it’s human nature. But when you take those individual experiences and extrapolate it out to a view of a system that varies widely in different areas, it doesn’t do much good.

The conversations here are also from people that fit in one or more of these categories: white, college educated, middle or high ses. Their needs and desires are vastly different from a public school system that largely serves children that are not white, don’t have college educated parents, and are low ses. I work at a school that people on here send their kids to. But I have also worked in poor/minority schools. No one size fits all approach is going to be successful. 

Yeah, my favorite responses here are from brothahorn. Probably, because his experiences are so different from mine. And it is cool to see what I think are good choices paying off.

[Sbbruin 22082]

I think one of the other factors to consider when talking about private, or upper end private, is that kids are surrounded by peers who have high expectations, both those place on them by their parents, as well as those they place on themselves.  College was not an aspiration for me, it was a requirement and was as assumed as goingt o middle school after elementary.  It was just the next step.  100% of my graduating class in HS went to college.  And that holds true for just about every kid that ever goes there.  I always did what was necessary, and not a whole lot more.  But "what was necessary" at a private school is a much higher bar than public.  And in order to not be the one fuck up in the group, I always made sure to get my shit done.  If I was in an environment where mediocrity was acceptable, I am pretty sure I would have taken that path.  I wasn't very good at looking too far down the road.  I was more interested in what parties were happening that weekend.  So in my case, being surrounded by high achievers pretty much forced me to do the same.  I guess I may be the poster child for white privilege.  

Man, I'm a pretty terrible person in retrospect.  

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

44 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The conversations here are also from people that fit in one or more of these categories: white, college educated, middle or high ses. Their needs and desires are vastly different from a public school system that largely serves children that are not white, don’t have college educated parents, and are low ses. I work at a school that people on here send their kids to. But I have also worked in poor/minority schools. No one size fits all approach is going to be successful. 

Uh, most white people send their kids to public schools. That is not correct at all.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TexasHooch said:

Those brackets always crack me up.  People take their sports following experience from 20 years ago then mash it up with their regional/conference bias and spit out a theory on the entire hierarchy of basketball.

Yeah, but the financials are purely private...

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

6 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Uh, most white people send their kids to public schools. That is not correct at all.

When I say that public schools largely serve non-white students, that’s a pretty easy google question. In Texas 27% of public school students are white.

[Bernard 879]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:47 PM, Bevo said:

I went to one of the top public high schools in the state. The private schools in Houston such as Kinkaid and St. Thomas were far ahead of us.

Not sure where you went to school, but for most non-ghetto Houston high schools I would disagree. The IB programs at Lamar, or Bellaire, or Westside, or Memorial, or Stratford, or Clements, or lots of other suburban high schools are every bit as good as anything you can get at Kinkaid, or St.Thomas, or Strake/St.Agnes. Most of the other Houston area private schools are sub-standard to these programs. The only exception is St. John's. SJ's stands alone at the top.

As touched on by other posters, the private schools are all better on average, but it's only because they have the ability to keep the bottom third of students off campus. I went to Lamar were 40% of my freshman class dropped out before graduating. There's no way to overcome those numbers if you only consider a school's averages.

If your goal is to shelter your kids from rubbing shoulders with poors, or indoctrinate them with religious dogma, private school is perfect. If you want them educated, HISD can do just fine.

Bernard

[Bevo 13829]

8 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Not sure where you went to school, but for most non-ghetto Houston high schools I would disagree. The IB programs at Lamar, or Bellaire, or Westside, or Memorial, or Stratford, or Clements, or lots of other suburban high schools are every bit as good as anything you can get at Kinkaid, or St.Thomas, or Strake/St.Agnes. Most of the other Houston area private schools are sub-standard to these programs. The only exception is St. John's. SJ's stands alone at the top.

As touched on by other posters, the private schools are all better on average, but it's only because they have the ability to keep the bottom third of students off campus. I went to Lamar were 40% of my freshman class dropped out before graduating. There's no way to overcome those numbers if you only consider a school's averages.

If your goal is to shelter your kids from rubbing shoulders with poors, or indoctrinate them with religious dogma, private school is perfect. If you want them educated, HISD can do just fine.

Bernard

I lived down the street from Kinkaid and had a decent number of friends who went there and to St. Johns. Some ended up going to high school with me at the public school. So, I was very much able to compare the two educations. Mine was very good - but their education was better. I think in math we caught up in high school - I took calculus and then took it again at UT as basically a blowoff course. In English, they were definitely more advanced. They had to read a lot more. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Maybe I don't get it, but everyone who sends their kids to Kinkaid and St. Johns is rich. I don't think they care whether the parents are attorneys or doctors. I can see that a donation or being alumni would help, though.

There are upper middles in income at all the elite schools.  That’s probably to core group.  Then you have families with fuck you money.  Their kids are getting in period.  Legacies also typically get in.  It’s more of a lottery for the rest.  
 

In junior high and high school entry points the exams and grades also matter a lot.  
 

I know a family at Kinkaid.  They moved to California in the fall.  When California wouldn’t open back up They moved back.  Their kids got back into Kinkaid.  Because the family has donated 7 figures they got right back in.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Maybe I don't get it, but everyone who sends their kids to Kinkaid and St. Johns is rich. I don't think they care whether the parents are attorneys or doctors. I can see that a donation or being alumni would help, though.

There are upper middles in income at all the elite schools.  That’s probably to core group.  Then you have families with fuck you money.  Their kids are getting in period.  Legacies also typically get in.  It’s more of a lottery for the rest.  
 

In junior high and high school entry points the exams and grades also matter a lot.  
 

I know a family at Kinkaid.  They moved to California in the fall.  When California wouldn’t open back up They moved back.  Their kids got back into Kinkaid.  Because the family has donated 7 figures they got right back in.  

[Neonmoon 38130]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Maybe I don't get it, but everyone who sends their kids to Kinkaid and St. Johns is rich. I don't think they care whether the parents are attorneys or doctors. I can see that a donation or being alumni would help, though.

You are correct. You don’t get it. The world is not black and white. There are degrees to everything. Everyone who sends their kids to private school is not rich, unless you mean compared to poverty levels. There is a range, from fuck you money all the way to barely afford tuition down to scholarship. Yes, the majority reside in the comfortably pay section. The same can be said for entrance exams. Yes, they have entrance exams. That doesn’t mean everyone who goes is brilliant. There is nuance. Obviously, if you score high, and you can afford it, then it’s just about space availability (which is also includes many factors). The entrance exams are a tool to cut out the students who clearly need special help or won’t be able to hack it, and then a lever. Let’s say your kid didn’t exactly ace the test, but was on the marginal side. If you have fuck you money, I’m sure they will bend the rules a little. Then you have the legacy variable, sibling variable, references, diversity. the entrance exam is just one of many variables considered 

 

 

 

[RDCanecutter 26856]

I saved Latin.

What did you ever do?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I saved Latin.

What did you ever do?

Public school guy...

[Nivek 17337]

5 hours ago, CHIEF said:

Something that was lost along the way, is the notion that "you want your kids to have a better life than you had". You don't have to be educated, or even that smart to realize that isn't going to happen unless you are involved with your child's education. Participation trophies have been the undoing of the competitiveness that makes children successful. "Just do your best" has replaced hard work, studying, and preparedness, and that won't cut it in a Global society where you have to compete with the other countries of the World. That's why you see immigrants from China, India, Africa, and the Middle East come to America and kick ass. Are they smarter? Probably not. But the parents are involved, and value education because they know that education will break the poverty cycle in the first generation.

CHIEF

My daughter earned the final game ball of the season of her tee-ball team.  Not because of a stellar performance, but rather because she powered through adversity (vomiting) and finished her final game sick.   Had she not shown, we would have been a kid short for the game.   We give effort/participation trophies all the time.  When I made runny scrambled eggs with shell pieces in them and burnt toast for my mom on mother's day, she didn't reject it, but appreciated the effort.   

We teach our kids to put effort into things.  With effort comes the reward.   My son (9) and I were cycling 80-100 miles a week during the summer with our farthest individual day's effort of 15 miles.  We were able to blow past our goal of 40 miles a week to 100 in a short period of time and we did 400 miles in a month.   He understands now that it takes effort to be good at something for most of us.  

In the OPs article, you might have skipped over the part about the costs of that achievement.   Some of those kids are popping pills for grades.   That is fucked up.  

[Samson's Wig 3222]

1 hour ago, Larry T. Spider said:

When I say that public schools largely serve non-white students, that’s a pretty easy google question. In Texas 27% of public school students are white.

Before drawing any conclusions here, it should be noted that only 33% of Texas children are white (non-Hispanic).  And that number drops every year.

The leftover gap can largely be explained by the fundamentalist folks who send their kids to cheap private schools to learn about Jesus.  I don't think they really count in an argument that kids in private schools are getting a leg up on public schools kids.  Outside of a church bubble, those kids are going to struggle.

The number of kids attending good private schools that actually prepare them for university and a life of privilege is very small in Texas.

 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Just want to be clear about the context of my comment about white kids and public schools. I’m not saying that the majority of white people avoid public schools. I’m saying that the demographics of this board are very different than the parents of public schools kids on a broad level. This group is largely white, educated, and middle/upper class. Having conversations about the successes and failures of public schools is vastly different with this group than with the majority of public school parents. Not saying the people here are wrong about things, they are just coming at it from different place. 

[blacklab 12050]

Wanker bob feel free to start an America sucks thread. This is not the place for it.

[BearSchlong 8233]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

I think one of the other factors to consider when talking about private, or upper end private, is that kids are surrounded by peers who have high expectations, both those place on them by their parents, as well as those they place on themselves.  College was not an aspiration for me, it was a requirement and was as assumed as goingt o middle school after elementary.  It was just the next step.  100% of my graduating class in HS went to college.  And that holds true for just about every kid that ever goes there.  I always did what was necessary, and not a whole lot more.  But "what was necessary" at a private school is a much higher bar than public.  And in order to not be the one fuck up in the group, I always made sure to get my shit done.  If I was in an environment where mediocrity was acceptable, I am pretty sure I would have taken that path.  I wasn't very good at looking too far down the road.  I was more interested in what parties were happening that weekend.  So in my case, being surrounded by high achievers pretty much forced me to do the same.  I guess I may be the poster child for white privilege.  

Man, I'm a pretty terrible person in retrospect.  

I'm probably worse.  With the exception of one semester, private religious school here from preschool through college. Episcopalian, Catholic, Baptist.

My ex is a product of DeKalb ISD near Texarkana.  When daddy sent her to finishing school at Sweet Briar in VA those eastern prep school girls ridiculed her barely literate east Texas schooling.

So I have kids with this woman, which is when I found out that any suggestion that our children would attend public school would be met with physical assault. So JCC and Keystone school in SATX for them both, until I had my mental "break" and had to retreat and regroup, while her new husband wouldn't foot the bill and the kids had to go slumming at Midway HS in Waco for their last few years of HS.  In the end, the kids went to A&M and Mizzou.

Apologise for the anecdote, but my decision making was driven unequivocally by my decision to stick my dick into and then marry crazy.  And that's why I'm not retired yet.  A cautionary tale to any of you young bucks out there weighing your options.

[B00M 6726]

19 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Unless the Ivies are important to you, or certain fraternities or sororities at certain other schools, it just doesn’t matter if you have a high aptitude kid

[gmr548 16681]

Uh, most white people send their kids to public schools. That is not correct at all.

In general, there are a lot more nonwhite children than white children in public school systems. Obviously not uniform across ISDs. That’s not mutually exclusive with most white folks people sending their kids to public schools.

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

 

Apologise for the anecdote, but my decision making was driven unequivocally by my decision to stick my dick into and then marry crazy.  And that's why I'm not retired yet.  A cautionary tale to any of you young bucks out there weighing your options.

^
See this is the kind of sound advice we're not giving our young male students today.  Our academy for high school students that will the first in their families to go college...one thing we emphasize is early exposure to financial literacy.  We've partnered with UTeach to get it deployed into more and more high schools from a 2-hour module with live exercises all the way to a full semester elective.  And we talk about everything from establishing credit, to budgeting, to student loans, and then into the "biggest financial decisions of your life"---those big buzz words to grab their attention.  College loans, evaluating job offers, buy/lease a car, buying a home, starting a business.  Right?  We all know them. 

But I think we're ignoring the fact that for half the young men in the room, one of their biggest financial events in life will be a divorce.  I de-risk private investments for a living.  But one thing I can't underwrite is "crazy."  When the asset knows is undergoing due diligence valuation, it will appear not crazy.  Like staging a piece of real estate before going on the market.  But you can lose everything put into it, not get the tax benefit of the capital loss/no carry-forward, completely full-recourse of collateral damage, and in some twisted sense of justice---you have to pay for the asset to maintain itself after you're off the title.  

Why isn't there "Financials of Your Inevitable Divorce" book out there?  We could add it wedding registries.  

[Mach 1 1677]

I may have read the article in the OP too quickly, but I didn't catch where she actually made the argument that private schools are indefensible.  I caught some anecdotes about entitled shithead parents, and that Ivy schools accept more private school applicants.

I'll skip the 10,000 word treatise and point out the obvious:  people with means tend to seek out the better things in life because they can afford it.  News at 11.  Education for their children is just one of those things.  I'm sure there are great public schools out there, and if we had that option, we'd take a hard look at them.   But unfortunately we don't, so we suck it up and pay the astronomical tuition for a school similar to the one in the article. It stings when I sign the check every year, but I sleep easy knowing it's my best investment.  I'm responsible for giving my kids the tools necessary to be decent human beings and succeed in the world once they fly the coop, and the private school we chose is doing exactly that.

I'm a public shool kid.  It was fine, but it didn't do much to prepare me for college, and in turn, the competive world after.  I'd like my kids to be better prepared than I was.

On the diversity front, maybe it's just our school, but part of our tuition goes to support a good chunk of scholarships.  There are kids from all sorts of socio economic backgrounds, and for that I am glad.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

7 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I may have read the article in the OP too quickly, but I didn't catch where she actually made the argument that private schools are indefensible.  I caught some anecdotes about entitled shithead parents, and that Ivy schools accept more private school applicants.

I'll skip the 10,000 word treatise and point out the obvious:  people with means tend to seek out the better things in life because they can afford it.  News at 11.  Education for their children is just one of those things.  I'm sure there are great public schools out there, and if we had that option, we'd take a hard look at them.   But unfortunately we don't, so we suck it up and pay the astronomical tuition for a school similar to the one in the article. It stings when I sign the check every year, but I sleep easy knowing it's my best investment.  I'm responsible for giving my kids the tools necessary to be decent human beings and succeed in the world once they fly the coop, and the private school we chose is doing exactly that.

I'm a public shool kid.  It was fine, but it didn't do much to prepare me for college, and in turn, the competive world after.  I'd like my kids to be better prepared than I was.

On the diversity front, maybe it's just our school, but part of our tuition goes to support a good chunk of scholarships.  There are kids from all sorts of socio economic backgrounds, and for that I am glad.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the diversity angle with a private school. Most public schools aren’t very diverse either, especially the ones where the parents could afford private schools. Last school that I worked at before my current school was only 5% non-Hispanic.

There are diverse public schools out there but they are the exception not the rule.

[Sbbruin 22082]

25 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I may have read the article in the OP too quickly, but I didn't catch where she actually made the argument that private schools are indefensible.  I caught some anecdotes about entitled shithead parents, and that Ivy schools accept more private school applicants.

I'll skip the 10,000 word treatise and point out the obvious:  people with means tend to seek out the better things in life because they can afford it.  News at 11.  Education for their children is just one of those things.  I'm sure there are great public schools out there, and if we had that option, we'd take a hard look at them.   But unfortunately we don't, so we suck it up and pay the astronomical tuition for a school similar to the one in the article. It stings when I sign the check every year, but I sleep easy knowing it's my best investment.  I'm responsible for giving my kids the tools necessary to be decent human beings and succeed in the world once they fly the coop, and the private school we chose is doing exactly that.

I'm a public shool kid.  It was fine, but it didn't do much to prepare me for college, and in turn, the competive world after.  I'd like my kids to be better prepared than I was.

On the diversity front, maybe it's just our school, but part of our tuition goes to support a good chunk of scholarships.  There are kids from all sorts of socio economic backgrounds, and for that I am glad.

Exactly.  I hate paying what we pay, but at the end of the day, my single greatest responsibility is to give my kids whatever opportunity I can.  So I do.

The author's point could have been summed up in about 1/100th of the number of words- the rich get richer by given their kids advantages the rest of the population can't afford.  And the only real solution is to end the institutions entirely.  Which won't happen.  So nothing changes.

I would encourage anyone who has the time to listen to the article via the audio link embedded in the article.

[gmr548 16681]

I'm probably worse.  With the exception of one semester, private religious school here from preschool through college. Episcopalian, Catholic, Baptist.
My ex is a product of DeKalb ISD near Texarkana.  When daddy sent her to finishing school at Sweet Briar in VA those eastern prep school girls ridiculed her barely literate east Texas schooling.
So I have kids with this woman, which is when I found out that any suggestion that our children would attend public school would be met with physical assault. So JCC and Keystone school in SATX for them both, until I had my mental "break" and had to retreat and regroup, while her new husband wouldn't foot the bill and the kids had to go slumming at Midway HS in Waco for their last few years of HS.  In the end, the kids went to A&M and Mizzou.
Apologise for the anecdote, but my decision making was driven unequivocally by my decision to stick my dick into and then marry crazy.  And that's why I'm not retired yet.  A cautionary tale to any of you young bucks out there weighing your options.

Condolences. No one deserves an aggy child.

[B00M 6726]

Wanker with the thread shit, as is tradition.

I've always been on the fence about private school because I went through an excellent public school system that provided a range of advanced courses allowing me to find my groove.

When we bought this house in AISD, on paper the schools were all rated ~8/10. In a decade they've all fallen to ~6/10. Probably not an issue, but it warrants some investigation.

Wife and FIL attended pre-K thru 8th private school and now our kids make it 3 generations. It actually saved us a little money over good daycare (surprise) so it's a no brainer for now. Obviously we're not talking about some prestigious prep school.

One thing I've appreciated is their school has been able to stay open and mostly normal during this pandemic. The school having autonomy from a district is a huge benefit.

I've convinced myself there's some benefit to private school early on to reduce variability, increase parent influence, and instill academic confidence before attending a public high school (hopefully for just 3 years). The few years of high school is a nice cost saver, reduces culture shock of college, un-bubbles the kids, etc. 

But i have no fucking idea. Good luck everybody.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by B00M
Except Wanker. Bob needs to find a Euro forum where they can circle jerk about how superior they are

[mdmost 43853]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

I think one of the other factors to consider when talking about private, or upper end private, is that kids are surrounded by peers who have high expectations, both those place on them by their parents, as well as those they place on themselves.  College was not an aspiration for me, it was a requirement and was as assumed as goingt o middle school after elementary.  It was just the next step.  100% of my graduating class in HS went to college.  And that holds true for just about every kid that ever goes there.  I always did what was necessary, and not a whole lot more.  But "what was necessary" at a private school is a much higher bar than public.  And in order to not be the one fuck up in the group, I always made sure to get my shit done.  If I was in an environment where mediocrity was acceptable, I am pretty sure I would have taken that path.  I wasn't very good at looking too far down the road.  I was more interested in what parties were happening that weekend.  So in my case, being surrounded by high achievers pretty much forced me to do the same.  I guess I may be the poster child for white privilege.  

Man, I'm a pretty terrible person in retrospect.  

I don't think your opening point is limited to private schools. We're sending our younger daughter next year to one of the few blue ribbon middle schools in Dallas ISD. She has a legitimate love of learning. The school is more of an academy that balances AP learning with introducing the students to career opportunities. Law, engineering, A/V production, etc. She had to apply and test + interview to get in. She will be surrounded by other students just like her: black, white, Hispanic, and Asian. One of her friends from class also got in. 

Now compare that to her current school where they have to take everyone through a lottery. It's a choice school which means parents choose to send their children because either they want to try a different learning model than their home school, in this instance Montessori learning, or they're trying to escape a lower performing school. You do not have to pass any academic requirements to get in. It's very much a commuter school as the home school for the area is in a rich neighborhood so it doesn't grab quite as many well to do parents. We applied to get in the first year it was switched from an underused 4th-6th grade school to a Montessori because we had previously sent them to a private Montessori preschool and were unsure about our home school.

That said, it has its own challenges. Lots of kids with learning disabilities, lots of 504s and SPED kids. My two both have ADHD and the older has struggled more especially going into junior high in a pandemic. I also sit on a couple of the boards of the school and have seen the educational gap between the haves and have nots which is pretty massive. So even in a school where all the parents actively put their kids in that school and care about how their kids are doing, there are gaps. It's not just parents that don't care or students that don't care. There's no one criteria to put as the reason for why the gap exists. It's also an alarming issue that I'm not sure the school may be able to overcome. It is getting worse as the kids get older which is a portion of why we are moving our younger daughter to a "better school". We don't want her to lose out in a setting that's not the most ideal for learning. I used to have the opinion that a good portion of the students who make it into the better schools come from more well to do families. I've now seen that's not really the case.

I always wince at these threads because the problems in our public education system can't be whittled down to just one reason. It's not just bad parents. It's not just bad teachers. It's not just poverty. It's not just parents that don't care. It's not just parents that care too much. It's not just because we don't dole out corporal punishment any longer. I wish public schools offered more avenues for kids to try different approaches to learning. My high school was one of the first magnets in DISD but not for academics only. It was more of a vocational magnet. It had AP courses but also offered trade careers like child care, automotive repair, and textiles all the way up to aerospace engineering. It was my home school so I took normal courses. I didn't have to major in any thing. A few of my friends found their careers through this school.

One extremely positive change in DISD is they are changing old schools that may be unused to academies, TAG schools, choice schools, dual language, and technology campuses. When new schools are opened, they're typically a new approach type of learning environment. DISD is trying. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by mdmost

[Brothahorn 10096]

18 minutes ago, B00M said:

Wanker with the thread shit, as is tradition.

I've always been on the fence about private school because I went through an excellent public school system that provided a range of advanced courses allowing me to find my groove.

When we bought this house in AISD, on paper the schools were all rated ~8/10. In a decade they've all fallen to ~6/10. Probably not an issue, but it warrants some investigation.

Wife and FIL attended pre-K thru 8th private school and now our kids make it 3 generations. It actually saved us a little money over good daycare (surprise) so it's a no brainer for now. Obviously we're not talking about some prestigious prep school.

One thing I've appreciated is their school has been able to stay open and mostly normal during this pandemic. The school having autonomy from a district is a huge benefit.

I've convinced myself there's some benefit to private school early on to reduce variability, increase parent influence, and instill academic confidence before attending a public high school (hopefully for just 3 years). The few years of high school is a nice cost saver, reduces culture shock of college, un-bubbles the kids, etc. 

But i have no fucking idea. Good luck everybody.

 

 

Wanker is a tosser.

 

I think you said it right. Early private school can definitely instill that academic confidence/love that will carry over.  

[Nivek 17337]

I don’t think anyone here thinks there is a singular reason for issues at some schools. But wealth seems to be the dominant factor at the macro scale.

And we never really even settled the question if there really is a problem with our overall education and performance?

[BabaYaga 15532]

Choice is never a bad thing

[Bernard 879]

1 hour ago, Mach 1 said:

I may have read the article in the OP too quickly, but I didn't catch where she actually made the argument that private schools are indefensible.  I caught some anecdotes about entitled shithead parents, and that Ivy schools accept more private school applicants.

I'll skip the 10,000 word treatise and point out the obvious:  people with means tend to seek out the better things in life because they can afford it.  News at 11.  Education for their children is just one of those things.  I'm sure there are great public schools out there, and if we had that option, we'd take a hard look at them.   But unfortunately we don't, so we suck it up and pay the astronomical tuition for a school similar to the one in the article. It stings when I sign the check every year, but I sleep easy knowing it's my best investment.  I'm responsible for giving my kids the tools necessary to be decent human beings and succeed in the world once they fly the coop, and the private school we chose is doing exactly that.

I'm a public shool kid.  It was fine, but it didn't do much to prepare me for college, and in turn, the competive world after.  I'd like my kids to be better prepared than I was.

On the diversity front, maybe it's just our school, but part of our tuition goes to support a good chunk of scholarships.  There are kids from all sorts of socio economic backgrounds, and for that I am glad.

Is your neighborhood with shitty public school options so uniquely awesome that you can't stomach a relocation to an area with good public schools?

Bernard

[BabaYaga 15532]

41 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Is your neighborhood with shitty public school options so uniquely awesome that you can't stomach a relocation to an area with good public schools?

Bernard

Or the cost benefit analysis determines that selling one's house and buying new at a time when prices are astronomically high makes less sense than paying private school rates.  To each their own....

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

When we bought this house in AISD, on paper the schools were all rated ~8/10. In a decade they've all fallen to ~6/10. 

 

 

Sounds like your kids are really bringing down the school district.

[Bernard 879]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Or the cost benefit analysis determines that selling one's house and buying new at a time when prices are astronomically high makes less sense than paying private school rates.  To each their own....

Agree. To each their own. There are armies of parents though who do the same math and decide to live where the public schools are good. Many do it when their kids are still in diapers so it's not like they are paying the high cost of moving. 

Separately, "astronomically high" house prices may cause some to stay put, but when you've maxed out your $500k capital gain exclusion, it's a great time to move and restart that tax-free appreciation clock.

Bernard

[CooterBrown 18273]

My oldest went private for K-4. It was a toxic environment for girls so we put her in our neighborhood school. She was a straight A student in private and continues to be 4 years into public taking all Pre-AP in middle school. She never said anything negative about the private school but after her first year at public, she told us that she didn’t know how good school and other kids were supposed to be until now. Damn near made me cry. Wasted $100,000 in an environment that viewed women as second class citizens and probably did more damage to her than I would ever know. Sure, there’s all kinds of weird shit in public school but it’s just different weird shit than private school. And honestly not any different except that private schools keep their shit locked down. End of the day a kid’s academic success is 50% kid, 40% parent, 10% the school. A school isn’t gonna fix your problems if you’re not willing to give more of yourself to help your kid and a school isn’t gonna break your kid if you are giving them the support needed.

TLDR: Fuck private school.

[BabaYaga 15532]

1 minute ago, Bernard said:

Agree. To each their own. There are armies of parents though who do the same math and decide to live where the public schools are good. Many do it when their kids are still in diapers so it's not like they are paying the high cost of moving. 

Separately, "astronomically high" house prices may cause some to stay put, but when you've maxed out your $500k capital gain exclusion, it's a great time to move and restart that tax-free appreciation clock.

Bernard

It's unbelievably complicated when you factor in the decision making of tens of thousands of individual families, which again, is why having more choices if rarely a negative.  

See @CooterBrown's experiences above.  Not great.  Probably an equal if not greater number of public school stories about kids getting into private and thriving.  Having these options is critical and forces each entity to step up their game.  

[Sbbruin 22082]

7 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

These threads always crack me up. People take their educational experience from 40 years ago then mash it up with their political/racial views and spit out a theory on the entire educational system of the United States.

Ill be working on my bracket if you need me 😀

Well, walking 5 miles up hill both ways in the snow will give you a different perspective.  Nevermind that it was Southern California.  There was a lot of snow back in my day.

[B00M 6726]

11 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

My oldest went private for K-4. It was a toxic environment for girls so we put her in our neighborhood school. 

Ugh

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

5 hours ago, Bernard said:

The IB programs at Lamar, or Bellaire, or Westside, or Memorial, or Stratford, or Clements, or lots of other suburban high schools are every bit as good as anything you can get at Kinkaid, or St.Thomas, or Strake/St.Agnes. Most of the other Houston area private schools are sub-standard to these programs. The only exception is St. John's. SJ's stands alone at the top.

As touched on by other posters, the private schools are all better on average, but it's only because they have the ability to keep the bottom third of students off campus. I went to Lamar were 40% of my freshman class dropped out before graduating. There's no way to overcome those numbers if you only consider a school's averages.

[sheeeit 129]

On 3/14/2021 at 6:02 PM, Sawbonz said:

Honest it’s probably the latter. More likely than not you would have figured things out in the end had you stayed in public school. I have nothing against private schools I just don’t see it as judicious use of my money. Unless the Ivies are important to you, or certain fraternities or sororities at certain other schools, it just doesn’t matter if you have a high aptitude kid

I haven’t read the last few pages so maybe this has been addressed, but I agree with you and disagree with you on this point. I will agree that a very high percentage of“High aptitude“ kids are going to do well academically wherever they go to school. I also think that someone can make a good argument that the sociological aspect of most public schools (usually a much more diverse group of students from a racial, economic and customs perspective) can be a benefit to kids.  
 

but there are also very legitimate reasons to send kids to private schools. as mentioned above, it really depends on the particular school.  Of course you are going to have wealthy parents whose kids are dumb and entitled go to private schools. That’s just reality.  but private schools alsoOffer a host of positive benefits including:

1) Religion- whether you happen to be religious or not, there are many, many people that are and do enjoy the fact that many religious-based schools teach religion and their sense of morality.  You may think the reviews are ridiculous but those are their views and that is a big factor when they decide on schools.

2) Extracurricular activities- This is actually a huge one for many parents. If you live in an area with a large public school then your options to play football, basketball, drama, debate or just about any extracurricular programs are severely limited. You are now competing against a huge number of people for a relative few open spots.

3) Expectations- I agree with everyone that parental involvement is a huge factor. But, the expectations of the institutions also play a huge role. The Baltimore school clearly did not have any expectations that even a large percentage of their students would graduate and go to college. as always, human nature is always going to be what it is and kids will be kids.  I don’t think it is arguable that a kid is more likely to fall between the cracks in a large public school versus a small private school.

 

 

[Helobious 9756]

6 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

 

2) Extracurricular activities- This is actually a huge one for many parents. If you live in an area with a large public school then your options to play football, basketball, drama, debate or just about any extracurricular programs are severely limited. You are now competing against a huge number of people for a relative few open spots.

 

How am I supposed to build a powerhouse athletics program with that attitude. Duncanville won state in basketball this past weekend. Roster of the best 15 players out of a pool of probably 2500 male students. And that’s ignoring the whole recruiting dynamic. Check your priorities there bud.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

She never said anything negative about the private school but after her first year at public, she told us that she didn’t know how good school and other kids were supposed to be until now. 

So the last time we were together with my 27YO son and his wife, we're sitting around after having had a few adult beverages, and we're talking about his work towards his Masters  in Comp. Science.  "Yeah, Son, just think... when you were turned down for the science academy at College Park and here you are getting ready to make your living doing exactly what they teach."  That academy is a 4 year commitment in a magnet type program for which you have to apply and interview in the Spring of 8th grade that goes for all High School..

"Dad..." sips his whisky  " They didn't turn me down.   I told them I didn't want to be there in the interview."

" You sorry mother..."  I just start laughing.  We were pretty disappointed at the time, believing it was a great opportunity missed.  Turns out he didn't want to be geeked out 24/7 and wanted to maintain some normalcy.   Immature?  yeah.  Wrong choice?  He worked his everloving ass off to get some other "options."

I like what @CooterBrown said above, and how he felt when his daughter had not been happy.  Within reason, the kid gets a vote too...   After he told us what he said in the interview, I was happy for him; he chose his own( still constructive) path.

Edited March 16, 2021 by slorch

[BearSchlong 8233]

Oops

[BearSchlong 8233]

^
See this is the kind of sound advice we're not giving our young male students today.  Our academy for high school students that will the first in their families to go college...one thing we emphasize is early exposure to financial literacy.  We've partnered with UTeach to get it deployed into more and more high schools from a 2-hour module with live exercises all the way to a full semester elective.  And we talk about everything from establishing credit, to budgeting, to student loans, and then into the "biggest financial decisions of your life"---those big buzz words to grab their attention.  College loans, evaluating job offers, buy/lease a car, buying a home, starting a business.  Right?  We all know them. 
But I think we're ignoring the fact that for half the young men in the room, one of their biggest financial events in life will be a divorce.  I de-risk private investments for a living.  But one thing I can't underwrite is "crazy."  When the asset knows is undergoing due diligence valuation, it will appear not crazy.  Like staging a piece of real estate before going on the market.  But you can lose everything put into it, not get the tax benefit of the capital loss/no carry-forward, completely full-recourse of collateral damage, and in some twisted sense of justice---you have to pay for the asset to maintain itself after you're off the title.  
Why isn't there "Financials of Your Inevitable Divorce" book out there?  We could add it wedding registries.  

Thats a great fuckin idea. Exit strategy before entry.

Few months before my 1st wedding I had lunch at Neiman Marcus in Dallas with Roy Black, who was a family friend. The famous attorney to the stars that got Willie Kennedy Smith acquitted and actually married a juror, Lea, who went on to be one of the real housewives of miami.

Told him I was getting married, he said my condolences, get a prenup. I called him a jaded asshole. His BIL just chuckled.

Hindsight 2020

[chitwood 155]

With respect to AISD, I will definitely argue that both LASA and the IB program at Anderson are equal if not superior to any private school in town. But ultimately the decision comes down to what is best for your kid. And that is often hard to know. 

[washparkhorn 9967]

25 minutes ago, chitwood said:

With respect to AISD, I will definitely argue that both LASA and the IB program at Anderson are equal if not superior to any private school in town. But ultimately the decision comes down to what is best for your kid. And that is often hard to know. 

IB support its learners with structure - and guidelines. https://www.ibo.org/about-the-ib/the-ib-by-region/ib-americas/connecting-ib-to-the-common-core/  Similar learners to students from hidden gems-type private schools. Smart kids respecting smart kids is the hallmark of all great schools/programs.

If your kid loves to learn, there is a world of opportunities out there. Maybe even a cruise to the moon or mars someday.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, sheeeit said:

I haven’t read the last few pages so maybe this has been addressed, but I agree with you and disagree with you on this point. I will agree that a very high percentage of“High aptitude“ kids are going to do well academically wherever they go to school. I also think that someone can make a good argument that the sociological aspect of most public schools (usually a much more diverse group of students from a racial, economic and customs perspective) can be a benefit to kids.  
 

but there are also very legitimate reasons to send kids to private schools. as mentioned above, it really depends on the particular school.  Of course you are going to have wealthy parents whose kids are dumb and entitled go to private schools. That’s just reality.  but private schools alsoOffer a host of positive benefits including:

1) Religion- whether you happen to be religious or not, there are many, many people that are and do enjoy the fact that many religious-based schools teach religion and their sense of morality.  You may think the reviews are ridiculous but those are their views and that is a big factor when they decide on schools.

We are people of faith/ believers in our home.  Always wanted our kids in the public schools hearing things that are different from their beliefs/ convictions; otherwise it might as well be brainwashing.  I openly tease friends/ family who espouse this idea of 'protecting their religion.'  They're gonna have to get out in the real world eventually.   How did you do as a parent, and more importantly, their example?

2) Extracurricular activities- This is actually a huge one for many parents. If you live in an area with a large public school then your options to play football, basketball, drama, debate or just about any extracurricular programs are severely limited. You are now competing against a huge number of people for a relative few open spots.

Our kids went to a high school in which the younger son was part of the first Freshman class with over 1000 kids for that school. Both excelled in their ECs, which admittedly were not "ball sports," but they had more than ample opportunity to practice, earn spots, and compete in their given activities.  I attended a 1A school, a ( now 6A) school, and then finally a 2A school growing up. At the smaller schools, my brothers and i played more sports.  At the 6A school, I chose football.  I enjoyed both scenarios for different reasons.  EC's are what you make of them  One thing about bigger schools is that they tend to offer a wider variety of things for students to participate in.  Your point of difference here might lie in school size, as opposed to public/ private.

3) Expectations- I agree with everyone that parental involvement is a huge factor. But, the expectations of the institutions also play a huge role. The Baltimore school clearly did not have any expectations that even a large percentage of their students would graduate and go to college. as always, human nature is always going to be what it is and kids will be kids.  I don’t think it is arguable that a kid is more likely to fall between the cracks in a large public school versus a small private school.

Expectations come from home. Period.   However, I will agree with you that different schools have different objectives. We got extremely frustrated with some of the lackadaisical approach our high school had towards the application process to the Academies.  It's supposed to be the student driving the bus with regard to the process, and on multiple times, administrators dropped the ball on getting class rank/ GPAs submitted.  One of them sent it only to Annapolis because they thought that was for every academy.  Finally we had had enough and had a meeting with the principal, basically asking WTF they were doing and if they recognized the work put in, and/or  the opportunity at stake.  It was submitted that day.  These bigger schools offer guidance counselors whose main job is to help get their students placed  into college or on a good career path, right?  They were very, very unfamiliar with the whole process, and I do believe the private schools would be more focused/ aware on that front.  That's the only time I ever wanted to BTFO of someone and go all Karen at someone working for our schools.  All of that being said, the school's lack of drive in that department didn't phase him.  He knew what he wanted.

 

 

In red.

[Nivek 17337]

Choice is never a bad thing

Choose your destructor.../Gozer