2021 NCAA Tournament - Meta thread

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

2 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

lol this cat watched his first basketball game ever last night

Lol ok, nah I used to coach and know how adjustments work and don’t get stuck on just one game only.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

Am I the only one who gets misty every fucking time one shining moment comes on?  It’s literally the perfect cap to the best sporting event we have. I can hardly wait until I have my tournament back with packed arenas and no Shaka smart next year. 
 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Am I the only one who gets misty every fucking time one shining moment comes on?  It’s literally the perfect cap to the best sporting event we have. I can hardly wait until I have my tournament back with packed arenas and no Shaka smart next year. 
 

Good to have you back. Outside of the occasional post here or there you've literally been on a sabbatical from posting about Longhorn basketball for at least 4 years, if not more.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Zags might win a game if it was a 7 game series but no way they would win a 7 game series. They had no answer for Baylor. I think in the Sweet 16 against Nova, Baylor shot terribly from 3. And they just pounded it inside. That is what they would do against Gonzaga if their outside shots weren't falling (gee, like we should have did against ACU). Gonzaga might make some adjustments but there is no adjusting to a team that is more powerful and athletic across the board. Vital was a man among boys on the glass. And it isn't like Gonzaga shot poorly. The thing that could have made this different was all the Gonzaga turnovers. They were sloppy at times but I think that had to do with Baylor's defense. Gonzaga's offense usually looks like a well oiled machine that looks poetic to watch. Not last night, though. Baylor made them look like a team from a mid major that had no business playing with a big dog.

[clapclapclap 9000]

Lulz, Baylor winning just twisted the knife in deeper for Tceh fans.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

3 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Zags might win a game if it was a 7 game series but no way they would win a 7 game series. They had no answer for Baylor. I think in the Sweet 16 against Nova, Baylor shot terribly from 3. And they just pounded it inside. That is what they would do against Gonzaga if their outside shots weren't falling (gee, like we should have did against ACU). Gonzaga might make some adjustments but there is no adjusting to a team that is more powerful and athletic across the board. Vital was a man among boys on the glass. And it isn't like Gonzaga shot poorly. The thing that could have made this different was all the Gonzaga turnovers. They were sloppy at times but I think that had to do with Baylor's defense. Gonzaga's offense usually looks like a well oiled machine that looks poetic to watch. Not last night, though. Baylor made them look like a team from a mid major that had no business playing with a big dog.

I thought turnovers were a big difference, but then I looked it up and Gonzaga only had 5 more than Baylor. Granted, I imagine that a healthy % of them all came in the first half and that the majority of them were probably live ball turnovers as opposed to travels, or tie-ups, or things of that nature, but I was still shocked to see that. 

[Richard Kimball 1492]

21 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Lol ok, nah I used to coach and know how adjustments work and don’t get stuck on just one game only.

That's what he said.

NCAA tournaments, how do they work?

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

12 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Good to have you back. Outside of the occasional post here or there you've literally been on a sabbatical from posting about Longhorn basketball for at least 4 years, if not more.  

Yeah- I got of the shag/surl for a couple years and even coming back I’ve been out on Shaka. The first full UT game I’ve watched in over 3 years was the ACU game. Let’s just say I didn’t feel like I’ve missed much. 
excited to be back to caring about texas hoops. I don’t need a national champ as I enjoyed the Pender’s and Barnes years- but I can’t stand utter and complete incompetence so I was out on Shaka. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

The one self inflicted thing by Gonzaga that was completely out of Baylor’s control was the missed free throws. I will say that. Every time it seemed like Baylor or the refs tried to help them get back in the game, they would miss free throws. You can’t tell me that isn’t deflating when you’re already getting bitchslapped around the court 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

8 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I thought turnovers were a big difference, but then I looked it up and Gonzaga only had 5 more than Baylor. Granted, I imagine that a healthy % of them all came in the first half and that the majority of them were probably live ball turnovers as opposed to travels, or tie-ups, or things of that nature, but I was still shocked to see that. 

It seemed Gonzaga's turnovers came at the wrong time. Or maybe they were magnified because they trailed big all game and every possession meant more. There was a time they cut the deficit to 9 in the 2nd half and calmed the game down and might make a run to make this a game. And then turned it over with sloppy play a few possessions in a row and bam, Baylor was back up 16 and that was all she wrote. This happened all game long. Any time Gonzaga made a little run to cut the deficit down, Baylor hit huge shots. Gonzaga had to fight and claw all the game just to not get blown off the court. At no point in this game did it ever look like they had any answer or would make a serious push.

It was a huge letdown for a neutral observer who wanted to see a great game. The game was never close from the first few minutes.

[Richard Kimball 1492]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The one self inflicted thing by Gonzaga that was completely out of Baylor’s control was the missed free throws. I will say that. Every time it seemed like Baylor or the refs tried to help them get back in the game, they would miss free throws. You can’t tell me that isn’t deflating when you’re already getting bitchslapped around the court 

Yeah, after the initial Baylor blitz, Gonzaga got in a situation they hadn't been in all year long, having to play from a legit deficit. When a team hasn't been behind all season, except for a few early two point deficits, it messes with their heads. You could see it when they started rushing shots and throwing up prayers. That also affected their free throws. 

[immamac 42492]

19 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

Yeah, after the initial Baylor blitz, Gonzaga got in a situation they hadn't been in all year long, having to play from a legit deficit. When a team hasn't been behind all season, except for a few early two point deficits, it messes with their heads. You could see it when they started rushing shots and throwing up prayers. That also affected their free throws. 

Oh you mean when they made 11 FT in a row after missing 1 early? Or do you mean the FT they started missing deep in the 2nd half after they hadn't missed any except 1 FT the entire first half? 

I swear some of you people just didn't watch the game and come in here talking bullshit that's easily debunked

[El Diablo 4232]

48 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Lol ok, nah I used to coach and know how adjustments work and don’t get stuck on just one game only.

There's some good coaches in the BXII who got to test that theory and for the most part they came up short. Baylor worked teams in multiple ways this year and did it without a really good big. What they did was not fluke, they'd done it to good competition all year. Something the Zags cannot say. 

[Richard Kimball 1492]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

Oh you mean when they made 11 FT in a row after missing 1 early? Or do you mean the FT they started missing deep in the 2nd half after they hadn't missed any except 1 FT the entire first half? 

I swear some of you people just didn't watch the game and come in here talking bullshit that's easily debunked

Love you, too. 

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

All this talk of adjustments that Few could have made makes me ask just one question.

What is the main adjustment he could have made?

He had 20 minutes at halftime to come up with something.

 

Baylor slaughtered them in rebounding, 38/22.

Baylor had the advantage in assists, 18/16.

Baylor doubled them up in steals, 8/4.

Baylor made 16/18 FTs to Gonzaga's 15/21 (not horrible).

Baylor's perimeter defense was fantastic.

Baylor was called for two fouls more, 19/17.

Say Baylor misses three of their 10 made 3s, is anyone confident that Gonzaga was going to get the rebound? Baylor had 16 offensive rebounds to Gonzaga's 17 defensive rebounds. Gonzaga had 5 offensive rebounds to 22 defensive rebounds for Baylor.

Baylor took 67 shots to 49 for Gonzaga, 30/67 to 25/49.

 

Where do they somehow make up the difference in size and toughness? This Baylor team was a lot like those really tough Michigan State teams but, better.

Edited April 6, 2021 by PittsburghTiger

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

6 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

All this talk of adjustments that Few could have made makes me ask just one question.

What is the main adjustment he could have made?

He had 20 minutes at halftime to come up with something.

 

Baylor slaughtered them in rebounding, 38/22.

Baylor had the advantage in assists, 18/16.

Baylor doubled them up in steals, 8/4.

Baylor made 16/18 FTs to Gonzaga's 15/21 (not horrible).

Baylor's perimeter defense was fantastic.

Baylor was called for two fouls more, 19/17.

Say Baylor misses three of their 10 made 3s, is anyone confident that Gonzaga was going to get the rebound? Baylor had 16 offensive rebounds to Gonzaga's 17 defensive rebounds. Gonzaga had 5 offensive rebounds to 22 defensive rebounds for Baylor.

Baylor took 67 shots to 49 for Gonzaga, 30/67 to 25/49.

 

Where do they somehow make up the difference in size and toughness? This Baylor team was a lot like those really tough Michigan State teams but, better.

Based off this theory then every 7 game series would end in a sweep after a team gets its shit pushed in since they didn’t make a in game adjustment at halftime. Most adjustments happen between games and you get to watch film and have time to break down what went wrong. I’m not saying Gonzaga would win a 7 game series but in a one game scenario like the championship is Baylor played a perfect game from literally the tip off to the buzzer. If you seriously don’t think mark few could make adjustments between games then I don’t know what to say. This is usual fan reaction to every nba series after one game, “we just got dominated and it’s over because we lost this one game”. 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

32 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

Yeah, after the initial Baylor blitz, Gonzaga got in a situation they hadn't been in all year long, having to play from a legit deficit. When a team hasn't been behind all season, except for a few early two point deficits, it messes with their heads. You could see it when they started rushing shots and throwing up prayers. That also affected their free throws. 

I didn't watch a ton of their games, I remember them being down double digits or close to it to BYU in the conference championship game. A game they ended up winning easily. And OU had them down 8-10 in the 2nd round. Another game they won easily. But BYU and OU are nowhere near Baylor. This wasn't a game where their talent and coaching would just do its part and take over.

I think Saturday night was a preview on what could happen last night. UCLA was very athletic and quick/fast. This bothered Gonzaga on defense. They really had no answer on the defensive end. 

I wonder what UCLA could have did against Baylor. I don't think they would have been overwhelmed athletically like Gonzaga was. Baylor would still have won, though.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Based off this theory then every 7 game series would end in a sweep after a team gets its shit pushed in since they didn’t make a in game adjustment at halftime. Most adjustments happen between games and you get to watch film and have time to break down what went wrong. I’m not saying Gonzaga would win a 7 game series but in a one game scenario like the championship is Baylor played a perfect game from literally the tip off to the buzzer. If you seriously don’t think mark few could make adjustments between games then I don’t know what to say. This is usual fan reaction to every nba series after one game, “we just got dominated and it’s over because we lost this one game”. 

How many 7 game series involve one team being a lot bigger, stronger, and faster than the other team, while also being equally skilled at basketball? I feel like you aren’t factoring that in for some reason. Gonzaga had no answer for Baylor’s athleticism. That was the game. It opened the door for all the other problems they ran into. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

11 hours ago, troph said:

That is TCU and present tense still applies. 

touche

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

Right in one game they put it on them. You’re acting like the championship game was Baylor vs a middle school team. They were 31-0 and a number 1 seed. If it’s the Lakers vs the current rockets then yea I think it would be a blowout sweep but this is the two best teams playing one game and Gonzaga didn’t show up and Baylor outplayed them the full 40 minutes. 

[Trey3216 15325]

14 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Right in one game they put it on them. You’re acting like the championship game was Baylor vs a middle school team. They were 31-0 and a number 1 seed. If it’s the Lakers vs the current rockets then yea I think it would be a blowout sweep but this is the two best teams playing one game and Gonzaga didn’t show up and Baylor outplayed them the full 40 minutes. 

And if they played again today or tomorrow, Baylor is still going to be faster/stronger/better conditioned than Gonzaga.  Few would definitely make adjustments, but Baylor would still pressure them to the brink and wear them down physically.   

[Funk Doctor Spock 11911]

Y'all give Timme a break. For God's sake he grew up an SMU basketball fan. He doesn't know any better. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

You know who's happy today?

Mercury Morris

[pops 6972]

56 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

All this talk of adjustments that Few could have made makes me ask just one question.

What is the main adjustment he could have made?

He had 20 minutes at halftime to come up with something.

 

Baylor slaughtered them in rebounding, 38/22.

Baylor had the advantage in assists, 18/16.

Baylor doubled them up in steals, 8/4.

Baylor made 16/18 FTs to Gonzaga's 15/21 (not horrible).

Baylor's perimeter defense was fantastic.

Baylor was called for two fouls more, 19/17.

Say Baylor misses three of their 10 made 3s, is anyone confident that Gonzaga was going to get the rebound? Baylor had 16 offensive rebounds to Gonzaga's 17 defensive rebounds. Gonzaga had 5 offensive rebounds to 22 defensive rebounds for Baylor.

Baylor took 67 shots to 49 for Gonzaga, 30/67 to 25/49.

 

Where do they somehow make up the difference in size and toughness? This Baylor team was a lot like those really tough Michigan State teams but, better.

I dont think there are any. 

Baylor played a little above their norm last night and the zags a little below theirs. 

Yes,  on any given night,  Gonzaga could beat Baylor. They are extremely skilled and play very solid basketball. 

But so does Baylor and they do it with guys that look like they start at linebacker in the NFL and they do it faster and stronger than Gonzaga. 

One of the keys to Gonzaga is transition buckets. They get a board and fill the lanes and sprint to the other end for either a layup or a kick out 3. Next thing you know they are up 10 and the game is over. 

They couldn't do that last night because Baylor could have charged rent on the offensive glass. Gonzaga couldn't get a board and therefore couldn't get anything going in transition. 

7 game series, zags win 1 or maybe 2. Baylor is just fucking better. I didn't think they were,  but they proved it last night. 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by pops

[Vic Mackey 46919]

12 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

And if they played again today or tomorrow, Baylor is still going to be faster/stronger/better conditioned than Gonzaga.  Few would definitely make adjustments, but Baylor would still pressure them to the brink and wear them down physically.   

Agreed. Few tried zone and man to man and Baylor exploited both of those. Not sure what else he could do over a series. Baylor is just more talented, physical, fast and athletic for Gonzaga. He could hope Baylor does not hit their shots but then they could just come inside and dominate because Gonzaga had no answer for that. If they played a 7 game series, I see Baylor winning in 5. I don't think Baylor would run them off the court every game but they would be too much to handle in the end.

I will agree with Rocket that in a series, people overreact on both sides to Game 1 and adjustments are always made (which make the series so fun) but in these 7 game series, the better team usually wins. You could get some flukes in 3 or 5 game series (which is why I liked the NBA went away from 5 game series in round 1). Some teams are just terrible matchups for others. Reminds me of Dallas vs Golden State in 2007. Dallas had zero answer for their athleticism and speed. They had to fight and claw for any victory they got. Golden St cruised in most of their victories. Last night, it seemed most of Gonzaga's points were hard fought and taxing. While Baylor was scoring at ease.

[Trey3216 15325]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Agreed. Few tried zone and man to man and Baylor exploited both of those. Not sure what else he could do over a series. Baylor is just more talented, physical, fast and athletic for Gonzaga. He could hope Baylor does not hit their shots but then they could just come inside and dominate because Gonzaga had no answer for that. If they played a 7 game series, I see Baylor winning in 5. I don't think Baylor would run them off the court every game but they would be too much to handle in the end.

I will agree with Rocket that in a series, people overreact on both sides to Game 1 and adjustments are always made (which make the series so fun) but in these 7 game series, the better team usually wins. You could get some flukes in 3 or 5 game series (which is why I liked the NBA went away from 5 game series in round 1). Some teams are just terrible matchups for others. Reminds me of Dallas vs Golden State in 2007. Dallas had zero answer for their athleticism and speed. They had to fight and claw for any victory they got. Golden St cruised in most of their victories. Last night, it seemed most of Gonzaga's points were hard fought and taxing. While Baylor was scoring at ease.

Yep.  Even when Baylor played Villanova and were down 7 at halftime, I knew they'd win going away.  The reason being, Baylor is so fast/physical/well-conditioned and plays with such defensive intensity that most teams they play get completely worn out by the 10 minute mark of the second half.  The team just grinds you down and lets you take yourself out of the game.  That's all about conditioning and philosophy.  It's hard to convince kids to do that, but it's proven to work when they all buy into it.  

[BearSchlong 8076]

After watching Baylor's run through the earlier rounds, I had zero doubt about last night's outcome.  All day long I knew they would beat Gonzaga because this year's team brought an intensity, focus, and discipline at a level missing in Drew's earlier squads - he had stars, but this team was really special.  I honestly can't remember seeing a more complete team at the college level - it's like they were reading each other's thoughts, they were so in sync, so methodical.  And so fucking deep.

When Mayer and Flagler come in at the first substitution and you think oh goody, here come some points.  That's deep.

I spent most of the 2nd half wondering how they'd stack up against historically outstanding championship teams - saw a graphic that they rivalled only the 2018 Villanova team for complete dominance.

 

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

39 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Based off this theory then every 7 game series would end in a sweep after a team gets its shit pushed in since they didn’t make a in game adjustment at halftime. Most adjustments happen between games and you get to watch film and have time to break down what went wrong. I’m not saying Gonzaga would win a 7 game series but in a one game scenario like the championship is Baylor played a perfect game from literally the tip off to the buzzer. If you seriously don’t think mark few could make adjustments between games then I don’t know what to say. This is usual fan reaction to every nba series after one game, “we just got dominated and it’s over because we lost this one game”. 

You didn't answer my question. I asked, what was the one thing Coach Few could do as an adjustment.

Just saying, "Mark Few would make adjustments" is not good enough.

I'm not a Baylor fan. I don't plan on being one. I don't hate Gonzaga. I don't plan on hating them. But where were they better than Baylor? I asked Saturday night, or maybe last weekend, if Baylor's size would give Gonzaga problems, and some folks responded like I was nuts.

Where are they going to make such a drastic change that they would beat Baylor? Gonzaga shot 50%. They shot decently from the FT line. Baylor moved the ball extremely well, as the assist number shows. They are big and physical outside. They rebounded like crazy. Is Timmie (sp) all of a sudden going to become a monster rebounder?

Baylor this season was within 0.1 of Gonzaga with assist to turnover ratio. They were within 2 assists per game of Gonzaga. Gonzaga shot their average from the FT line. During the season Baylor's defense held teams to 32.9% from 3 and Gonzaga made 29.4%, pretty much par for Baylor's season. Baylor led the NCAA with 41.3% from 3 this season. Last night they were 43.5%. Again, pretty much par for Baylor.

Gonzaga got next to nothing from its bench, 7 points & 2 rebounds. Baylor got 21 points and 6 rebounds from its bench.

So I just ask, and I am not taking a shot at you, I ask generally, where is Gonzaga a better team than Baylor? Or, better yet, where are they going to get better with Mark Few's adjustments? 

Assuming that Baylor's coach does not make a single adjustment.

 

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

15 minutes ago, pops said:

I dont think there are any. 

Baylor played a little above their norm last night and the zags a little below theirs. 

Yes,  on any given night,  Gonzaga could beat Baylor. They are extremely skilled and play very solid basketball. 

But so does Baylor and they do it with guys that look like they start at linebacker in the NFL and they do it faster and stronger than Gonzaga. 

One of the keys to Gonzaga is transition buckets. They get a board and fill the lanes and sprint to the other end for either a layup or a kick out 3. Next thing you know they are up 10 and the game is over. 

They couldn't do that last night because Baylor could have charged rent on the offensive glass. Gonzaga couldn't get a board and therefore couldn't get anything going in transition. 

7 game series, zags win 1 or maybe 2. Baylor is just fucking better. I didn't think they were,  but they proved it last night. 

 

Agreed.

I think Baylor forced Gonzaga to play below their normal. It's what really good teams do.

I did think they were better and were going to win.

[Funk Doctor Spock 11911]

22 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

After watching Baylor's run through the earlier rounds, I had zero doubt about last night's outcome.  All day long I knew they would beat Gonzaga because this year's team brought an intensity, focus, and discipline at a level missing in Drew's earlier squads - he had stars, but this team was really special.  I honestly can't remember seeing a more complete team at the college level - it's like they were reading each other's thoughts, they were so in sync, so methodical.  And so fucking deep.

When Mayer and Flagler come in at the first substitution and you think oh goody, here come some points.  That's deep.

I spent most of the 2nd half wondering how they'd stack up against historically outstanding championship teams - saw a graphic that they rivalled only the 2018 Villanova team for complete dominance.

 

I pretty much knew Baylor was going to win. They looked like grown men against their competition, and their shooting was insane. Admittedly I pulled for Gonzaga, but I knew it was over once the whistle blew. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

14 hours ago, hookem48 said:

people forgot about Phi Slamma Jamma vs the DRs of Dunk

People that didn’t follow basketball back then may have.  It’s still one of the best all around displays of pure athleticism from two teams in the history of the sport.

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

 

 

 

[Funk Doctor Spock 11911]

8 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

 

 

 

That second one is about as accurate as you can get. They were toying with that poor man's soul 

[hookem48 4631]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

People that didn’t follow basketball back then may have.  It’s still one of the best all around displays of pure athleticism from two teams in the history of the sport.

and you couldn't take 3 steps back then either.

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

1 hour ago, hookem48 said:

and you couldn't take 3 steps back then either.

A high percentage of that game was played above the rim.  Benny Anders' dunk over Charles Jones was described by Sports Illustrated as "a mid air shark attack".

 

[hookem48 4631]

3 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

A high percentage of that game was played above the rim.  Benny Anders' dunk over Charles Jones was described by Sports Illustrated as "a mid air shark attack".

 

Drexler's one hand to two handed dunk was fucking awesome

Edited April 6, 2021 by hookem48

[Underdog 28437]

Always liked that CBS graphic/font they used for sports. 

[Trey3216 15325]

Just read an article on Yahoo about the official that collapsed during the Gonzaga/USC game had a blood clot in his lung that he didn't know was there.  Collapsing like that probably ended up saving the dude's life.