UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

[Pancho 44804]

21 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

None of this is correct. 

[Burt Macklin 19024]

24 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Acknowledging the advantages Texas has over places like Arkansas & Alabama when it comes to our NIL program, facilities, and ease of recruiting. The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

Beard was the perfect guy to handle the internal pressures of this job. Oates & Muss may be assessing what they've built at marginally inferior programs and come away thinking the grass isn't always greener. That's why I think we'll ultimately land a guy from a program with a much more exaggerated resource disparity than say Arkansas or Alabama. 

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

[SL Xpress 7514]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

Not to mention he wasn't even fired. 

[closetohumping 17442]

38 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Acknowledging the advantages Texas has over places like Arkansas & Alabama when it comes to our NIL program, facilities, and ease of recruiting. The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

Beard was the perfect guy to handle the internal pressures of this job. Oates & Muss may be assessing what they've built at marginally inferior programs and come away thinking the grass isn't always greener. That's why I think we'll ultimately land a guy from a program with a much more exaggerated resource disparity than say Arkansas or Alabama. 

What I’ve heard was Barnes was asked to fire his coaches and he refused to do so

[CheesePie 238]

32 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

[jimmyjazz 45957]

Texas' firing of Barnes and Shaka (OK, transfer of Shaka) aren't even controversial.  Beard is the first coach since Penders to put his job in jeopardy for things beyond performance.

There is absolutely no stink on this program, other than the fact that we often seem to do less with more.

[Burt Macklin 19024]

7 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

You threw out the “just asking, I could be wrong” stupid first post, which is fine but now you’re sticking with it in the face of being clearly wrong. Time to let it go. 

Shaka making excuses for sucking is irrelevant. Oats or any CBB coach knows Shaka sucks and won’t care about his excuses for why he failed after getting more time than most other programs would’ve given him. 
 

 

[Pancho 44804]

11 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

Where is your source for this? 

Shaka left on his own accord.  

[CheesePie 238]

21 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Where is your source for this? 

Shaka left on his own accord.  

I know that's not the most damning evidence, but you can read between the lines. 

 

[Valmy77 13226]

I mean he is not wrong. This is neither a basketball crazy place nor a basketball-centric athletic department.

[CheesePie 238]

28 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

You threw out the “just asking, I could be wrong” stupid first post, which is fine but now you’re sticking with it in the face of being clearly wrong. Time to let it go. 

Shaka making excuses for sucking is irrelevant. Oats or any CBB coach knows Shaka sucks and won’t care about his excuses for why he failed after getting more time than most other programs would’ve given him. 
 

 

None of these replies have convinced me that I'm clearly wrong. I may be wrong, and hope I am. I hope you allow yourself time for reflection on this program if/when we strike out on the guys at the top of the surly wishlist.

[ztejas 43449]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Oats got some big time recruits to Alabama in prior classes, but he’s got a lot of bread in their class this year rather than continuing to trend up in recruiting.  Lloyd’s recruiting at Arizona still is TBD as well.

Musselman, despite seeming like a creep in some respects, is the one who seems like a pretty good bet to make it rain as a recruiter.  He also has a bit of the transfer magic like Beard.  His Nevada teams were built on getting transfers.  I’d like him over Oats, and not just to piss off our Hog guest.

I think Muss is also a better coach. I do think Oats would be easier to pry away. 

 

A big dick move I haven't seen mentioned - although he unfortunately just got extended - what if Texas bought out Billy Donovan's contract? He'd have to want to make a return to college but he's currently captaining a listless, 11-16 Bulls team that has zero shot at contending for a title. 

I think it would be too cost-prohibitive (then again, Calipari is being floated as a possibility). Also trying to think of any precedence for an NBA HC walking away from a lucrative, multi-year deal. 

 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

I always liked Donovan.

At this point, McCasland is starting to make a lot of sense, given his ties to recruiting in Texas and general approach to the game, not to mention success.

[Valmy77 13226]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I always liked Donovan.

At this point, McCasland is starting to make a lot of sense, given his ties to recruiting in Texas and general approach to the game, not to mention success.

Yeah. McCasland seems like the high potential reward pick, despite his lack of P5 experience. He seems like a potential coaching super star who just needs the right job and Texas could be that right job.

But I certainly get hiring some older coach with lots of skins on the wall as well, presuming there is one willing to come here.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Valmy77

[Pancho 44804]

I don’t see Donovan coming back to college. 

McCasland would need a strong assistant to can be his rainmaker with recruits. I could be wrong, but I can’t see McCasland walking into Souf Dallas for a recruit like I could see Beard doing. 

Still think the top 3 should be: 

Oats/Muss

Muss/Oats

Lloyd

 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I don’t see Donovan coming back to college. 

McCasland would need a strong assistant to can be his rainmaker with recruits.

Is it a forgone conclusion that Terry wouldn't stick around as the top assistant?

[Pancho 44804]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Is it a forgone conclusion that Terry wouldn't stick around as the top assistant?

I mean, we can’t force Terry upon the new coach, so….

[Valmy77 13226]

Just now, Pancho said:

I mean, we can’t force Terry upon the new coach, so….

I see you are aiming for the presidency of the Rodney Terry fanclub.

He was the guy who recruited Kevin Durant right? He can't be that bad.

[CheesePie 238]

neg reps noted from the idiot that thought Will Muschamp should the next coach for UT hoops 

[Pancho 44804]

5 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I see you are aiming for the presidency of the Rodney Terry fanclub.

He was the guy who recruited Kevin Durant right? He can't be that bad.

I personally have no problem with Terry as an assistant. I’m saying you have to give the new coach autonomy to make his assistant coaching decisions how he sees fit. That’s all. 

[Burt Macklin 19024]

17 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

neg reps noted from the idiot that thought Will Muschamp should the next coach for UT hoops 

Glass houses and all.  Mine was just an iPhone autocorrect. 

[Js1 85338]

27 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I personally have no problem with Terry as an assistant. I’m saying you have to give the new coach autonomy to make his assistant coaching decisions how he sees fit. That’s all. 

Yep.   You don't tell the new guy who he has to have on staff.  Terry may not be a fit to what New 2023 Coach wants to do; no need to automatically hamstring the new coach by saddling him with a guy he doesn't want. 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

I wasn't suggesting that we force Terry on a new coach.  I was suggesting that we might encourage that angle, given Terry's history as not only a head coach in the state but a good recruiter to boot.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Whatever we do I want an offensive specialist as a head coach. There's no way we're going to get another master marketer on the same level as Beard so in lieu of having a salesman in the same vein as him we're going to need a style of play that sells itself to the fans who need shiny objects to be all in with basketball.  Musselman would probably be the closest thing to the salesman that Beard is with the added bonus of having an offensive focus, but it may be tough to lure him away from Arkansas. If he is a no go then I'd like to kick the tires on the dude at Arizona to test whether he'd be interested. There was a time where it would've been blasphemous for Arizona's head basketball coach to leave for UT, but with the way the tables have turned in basketball recruiting circles with the state of Texas probably have the best high school basketball talent in the country I think it's a reasonable possibility. 

[BigOrange1 6437]

40 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Whatever we do I want an offensive specialist as a head coach. There's no way we're going to get another master marketer on the same level as Beard so in lieu of having a salesman in the same vein as him we're going to need a style of play that sells itself to the fans who need shiny objects to be all in with basketball.  Musselman would probably be the closest thing to the salesman that Beard is with the added bonus of having an offensive focus, but it may be tough to lure him away from Arkansas. If he is a no go then I'd like to kick the tires on the dude at Arizona to test whether he'd be interested. There was a time where it would've been blasphemous for Arizona's head basketball coach to leave for UT, but with the way the tables have turned in basketball recruiting circles with the state of Texas probably have the best high school basketball talent in the country I think it's a reasonable possibility. 

yeah my main draw to lloyd is that he wins by playing a highly entertaining style of basketball.  i like musselman more, but if lloyd is more attainable i'm perfectly ok with that.

[jimmyjazz 45957]

I'm on the opposite side of the fence -- I've come to love Beard's style of play.  That's why I think the UNT guy might work out.

[Rockethorn1978 6077]

Ok we’re back to he’s getting fired for sure? Great. Guess I’ll have to really think about another new coach. 

[Valmy77 13226]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Ok we’re back to he’s getting fired for sure? Great. Guess I’ll have to really think about another new coach. 

Wait was there a point we thought he wasn't getting fired?

So what do you think of the UNT guy? McCasland?

[hobbes2702 13033]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

I think Muss is also a better coach. I do think Oats would be easier to pry away. 

 

A big dick move I haven't seen mentioned - although he unfortunately just got extended - what if Texas bought out Billy Donovan's contract? He'd have to want to make a return to college but he's currently captaining a listless, 11-16 Bulls team that has zero shot at contending for a title. 

I think it would be too cost-prohibitive (then again, Calipari is being floated as a possibility). Also trying to think of any precedence for an NBA HC walking away from a lucrative, multi-year deal. 

 

[HtownHorn 14682]

10 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah. McCasland seems like the high potential reward pick, despite his lack of P5 experience. He seems like a potential coaching super star who just needs the right job and Texas could be that right job.

But I certainly get hiring some older coach with lots of skins on the wall as well, presuming there is one willing to come here.

Only 1 season of less than 20 wins, that was the post Covid season, and he beat Purdue in the tournament that year. Graduated from Baylor before the stink of the murder took place.

[shadow_operative 15932]

i've read a lot of stupid shit since monday, but this thread takes the cake. surly is all about hiring this guy:

 

 

 

but wants absolutely nothing to do with this guy:

you guys are smoking fucking crack. we should be so lucky to get someone as good as Coach Cal. and don't tell me shit about who he is as a person. i don't know if any of y'all have noticed, but scumbags win championships. Coach Cal, Rick Pitino, Scott Drew, hell even Nick Saban and Coach K are just elite level scumbags who are so good at it that they can remove themselves from being directly linked with their own scumbaggery. Chris Beard is a scumbag, and he was gonna be our Coach K. you don't want a scumbag, then apologize to Rick Barnes and be happy with one FF appearance every two decades or so. otherwise gtfo with the idea that we're "better than" hiring someone like John Calipari. i'd lose a pinky toe if it meant hiring him. you all can have Joe Nobody from UNT.

[shadow_operative 15932]

also stop suggesting eric musselman, he sucks at coaching and anyone who likes him is stupid and doesn't know shit about basketball. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

oh yeah, hiring Cal means we probably keep ron holland. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

to spare everyone a classic, interminable derka diatribe, i'll just say this: folks who only focus on a prospective HC's on-court style and success are ignoring a *huge* chunk of what makes a tier 1 coach a tier 1 coach. there's so, so much more to it than that. if it was all about basketball acumen then mark adams and chris beard would be interchangeable. they aren't.

[shadow_operative 15932]

five incendiary posts in a row at 4am, IM BACK BIIIITTTTTCCCCCHHHHHHH!!!

#derka4ever

#howcouldyouchrisbeard

#makestevekerrsayno 

[Sbbruin 21853]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

#makestevekerrsayno 

Yes, you are back.  

Edited December 16, 2022 by Sbbruin

[ClubWhatever 12144]

Yeah no more hires of guys who have never coached and won at this level please.   No Ivey, no Golding, no UNT guy.  

[Underdog 28637]

Calm down, everybody.  I have it on good authority that Jay Wright has been house shopping at Lake Travis, Westlake, Circle C, Pflugerville.  

[South Austin 52507]

Derka’s alive!!!

[Radical Larry 28620]

[Biff Tannen 45686]

He’s convinced me. Give me my dollar back. 

[closetohumping 17442]

1 hour ago, Underdog said:

Calm down, everybody.  I have it on good authority that Jay Wright has been house shopping at Lake Travis, Westlake, Circle C, Pflugerville.  

Saw him at the taco cabana at William cannon 

[CooterBrown 18012]

Y’all need to come to terms with us keeping Beard. That’s happening. We SEC now.

[Underdog 28637]

4 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Saw him at the taco cabana at William cannon 

TC over Torchy's?  Clearly not suited for UT.  Do.  Not.  Hire. 

[closetohumping 17442]

14 minutes ago, Underdog said:

TC over Torchy's?  Clearly not suited for UT.  Do.  Not.  Hire. 

Yep he was mumbling about this is why I love Texas. Authentic Mexican food you can’t get in Philly.  

[Js1 85338]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

also stop suggesting eric musselman, he sucks at coaching and anyone who likes him is stupid and doesn't know shit about basketball. 

Well done good sir 

[Pancho 44804]

Our coach should be Beard. I’m still holding on to that hope…

[MAUFRAIS 6629]

Same

[Fletch 5800]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:41 AM, hobbes2702 said:

About as expected I’d say. I agree with @ztejas though. I want no part of Calipari

Agreeing with @ztejas is no way to go through life, son 

[Fletch 5800]

8 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i've read a lot of stupid shit since monday, but this thread takes the cake. surly is all about hiring this guy:

 

 

 

but wants absolutely nothing to do with this guy:

you guys are smoking fucking crack. we should be so lucky to get someone as good as Coach Cal. and don't tell me shit about who he is as a person. i don't know if any of y'all have noticed, but scumbags win championships. Coach Cal, Rick Pitino, Scott Drew, hell even Nick Saban and Coach K are just elite level scumbags who are so good at it that they can remove themselves from being directly linked with their own scumbaggery. Chris Beard is a scumbag, and he was gonna be our Coach K. you don't want a scumbag, then apologize to Rick Barnes and be happy with one FF appearance every two decades or so. otherwise gtfo with the idea that we're "better than" hiring someone like John Calipari. i'd lose a pinky toe if it meant hiring him. you all can have Joe Nobody from UNT.

CDC should hire Derka to lead our basketball coach committee. Wait. Never mind. We’d end up with Barnes