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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

alphahorn

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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On 12/17/2022 at 6:05 AM, shadow_operative said:

6E5A76B5-7C76-4846-9314-ED2EA6A8310A.png

For starters - he's coaching at what may be the easiest school to win at in the country. 

Since 2015 he's had two 30 win teams. Both of them lost in the elite eight. His other teams (not including the covid season) have gone round of 32, sweet sixteen, missed tournament, round of 64 and this season they've already lost 4 games. 

I think a lot of coaches could have gotten more out of the talent he's had the past 5-10 seasons. If you want to give him some credit for recruiting then go ahead, but again, he's at Kentucky. 

I'm not saying your wrong - btw - maybe they win the title this year or maybe he just needs a change of scenery. I just don't love what I've seen from Kentucky the past 4-5 seasons. 

Edited by ztejas
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MAUFRAIS
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that's an attitude that would make sense to me if i went to tech

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Two words: Urban. Meyer.

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shadow_operative

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41 minutes ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

I could be alright with Muss. 
 

Fuck Calipari.  Everything that fuck touches turns to dogshit.  UMass, Memphis.  UK will go back to Gillespie as their HC once he leaves to fuck off somewhere else.  
 

Biggest win we could have is convincing Wright to come back and take it imo. 

yeah Jay Wright is the dream.

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Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson 176

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On 12/17/2022 at 12:34 PM, Dbeasy said:

It wasn’t coaching related. I’ll leave it at that. If you Google Barnes and YouTube, he talks about his issues. 

On 12/17/2022 at 12:47 PM, jimmyjazz said:

You could just provide the link.

I googled it, didn't find anything about "issues".  Gonna need something more concrete.  A link, perhaps (as requested above)?

 

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cafe society

cafe society 2860

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On 12/16/2022 at 9:55 PM, shadow_operative said:

if i'm in charge of hiring the next coach, here's where i'm looking:

tier 1:

im moving heaven and earth to land a jay wright, billy donovan, or a Coach Cal. whatever they want from me, they've got it, whether that's a 10 year guaranteed contract, or it's a 3-4 year deal where they groom their own successor. whatever they want, they got it. 

tier 2:

if i can't persuade any of those guys then my next guy is (obviously) musselman. ive been publicly pining for him to coach at Texas for years, and i don't think i need to explain why any longer. with that said, i think that most of the tier two coaches (Muss, Oats, Lloyd, etc) will use this situation to get a raise at their current gig. i'd even make someone like tony bennett hear me out before moving on, but still, i think it's most likely that this group of coaches gets their standard raise and stays where they are.

 

tier 3:

now i'm looking at good, established cbb coaches who probably have a rick barnes type ceiling. i'm talking mick cronin (a barnes clone who was my guy before musselman was), chris holtman, randy bennett, etc. these guys aren't sexy, and i have serious questions about their ability to recruit at a barnes/smart/beard level, but basketball-wise we should be fine.

 

tier 4: Texas should never find themselves settling for a tier 4 coach, but if we somehow did get to this level of the discount barrel, i'd be looking for the next tommy lloyd- an offensive minded coach who apprenticed under an established tier 1 coach for a long time. if such a person even exists, i don't know. but if we're down here this far then that's what i'm looking for. another archetype i would consider would be a young, former NCAA basketball player who's been an assistant somewhere the last several years, with either a high d-1 school or in the nba/g league, and who could presumably recruit well given their status as a young, probably-black, former ncaa stud. even if they had no long term plans of staying at Texas, this is where i'd be looking.

tier 5:

this is where we find the grant mccasland's of the world, and i'd pretty much rather find a new job for myself than have my name attached to this type of hire. if i we're going to hire someone from this tier it would probably be chris jans, who seems to be a better, more proven tier 5 HC than mccasland. but again, i'd rather find myself a new job than hire either of these guys to succeed chris beard at Texas. 

A Tier 4 coach that would be worth looking into at least is UC Santa Barbara's Joe Pasternack.  His first HC job was the miserable program at UNO.  After that he spent six years as an assistant at Arizona.  I haven't looked at the analytics but I believe he is an offensive-minded coach.  

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realgreggym

realgreggym 835

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6 hours ago, Satchel said:

I could be wrong, but I believe Texas has every intention of retaining Beard (by any means necessary).

agreed. I don't know what the outcome of his arrest will be but if he gets fired, he will probably be back in D1 probably in a couple of years. So maybe you suspend him for the year or whatever is appropriate and then you bring him back next year.

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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On 12/25/2022 at 1:59 PM, Satchel said:

I could be wrong, but I believe Texas has every intention of retaining Beard (by any means necessary).

The “means necessary” is the truth. 

She started it. He defended himself. He de-escalated. She called the cops. 

I think the way he handled it, except for still being in the relationship, will be shown to completely justifiable and most of the “sentence first, trial later” people will be trying to memory hole their takes. 

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shadow_operative

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16 minutes ago, redswingline said:

 Since 1939, two teams from Texas have won an NCAA Men's title.

We aren't one of them.

name the top five coaching jobs in ncaa basketball. name every other school with our combination of city, salary, resources, potential ceiling, and fan expectations. 

Spoiler

there aren't any.

 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Satchel

Satchel 6932

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8 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

The “means necessary” is the truth. 

She started it. He defended himself. He de-escalated. She called the cops. 

I think the way he handled it, except for still being in the relationship, will be shown to completely justifiable and most of the “sentence first, trial later” people will be trying to memory hole their takes. 

Could be, but nowadays, everybody has their own truth. I know…it’s crazy.

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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Just now, Satchel said:

Could be, but nowadays, everybody has their own truth. I know…it’s crazy.

That’s why I said “most.” Some people wouldn’t accept video which showed he handled the situation as well as could reasonably be expected. Good decisions can’t be made while trying to appease that kind of person. 

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12120

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6 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

name the top five coaching jobs in ncaa basketball.

I would say the top 4 are Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, and North Carolina.  There’s no clear top 5.  An argument could be made for Duke, Michigan, Michigan State, Villanova, Louisville, maybe some others I am forgetting.  

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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8 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

name the top five coaching jobs in ncaa basketball. name every other school with our combination of city, salary, resources, potential ceiling, and fan expectations. 

  Reveal hidden contents

there aren't any.

 

Top 5 is ambitious. I'd put all five blue bloods above us. 

Texas is just as good as 1st in that second tier. 

So I think I largely agree with you despite being a bit nit-picky. 

1 minute ago, ClubWhatever said:

I would say the top 4 are Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, and North Carolina.  There’s no clear top 5.  An argument could be made for Duke

There's your clear top 5. 

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redswingline

redswingline 1057

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25 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

name the top five coaching jobs in ncaa basketball.

Our definition of top five programs are clearly different. Titles, final four appearances, elite eight appearances, sweet sixteen appearances. Top-five programs accomplish that with some measure of consistency. I would think a national title gets the most weight and we have zero of those.

 

 

 

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Pancho

Pancho 44712

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Context. 

Is Texas a top 5 job in terms of its record when it comes to NCs, FF, EEs, S16s, etc? No, and I think we would all agree there. 

I’ve had a P5 assistant coach at a SEC camp in Orlando tell me Texas is a “top 5 job” in the eyes of coaches/assistants because of three things—1.) recruiting base, 2.) money, 3.) no pressure/less pressure. If that’s the context, then yes, I’d say Texas is top 5. 

I’m trying to think of a school in college football that you could equate this to, and I’m getting a blank except for something like UCF starting in 2023. I’m not sure there is a school where football would meet those 3 criteria. 

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redswingline

redswingline 1057

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How much does recency matter?  duke has 5 titles in the last 31 years, N. Carolina has 4 and Kentucky has 3 (I think). I  hate duke but they have to be top 5, at least during the last 3 decades.

UCLA has something like 11 or 12 titles all time, more than anyone else - they just crushed it during those wooden years. However, their last title was 1995.

Just by sheer # of titles I would have a hard time putting any program above ucla from a historical context. However, 1995 was a long time ago.

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shadow_operative

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38 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

I would say the top 4 are Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, and North Carolina.  There’s no clear top 5.  An argument could be made for Duke, Michigan, Michigan State, Villanova, Louisville, maybe some others I am forgetting.  

i'll try and find the link, but ncaa cosches were polled about the best jobs and texas finished in the top 10 (this was like early shaka era), and the job has only gotten more attractive since then. no cosches out there think that louisville or nova is a better job than Texas. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

We are the number 1 sleeping giant program based on the State of Texas now being arguably even better at producing basketball talent than football talent, so much so that even the Baylors, UHs and Techs of the world can compete for national championships.  Add in the monetary support and the lack of psychotic Kentucky like fan expectations to the natural recruiting advantage, and I agree Texas is the “best of the rest” job after you get past the few established blue bloods.  Which like others said, pretty much puts it at number 6 nationally if UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and UCLA still are the top tier jobs.  

UCLA would probably be the best job if the school and LA fans actually decided to care about sports again for real, but since they don’t it is probably the worst job of the blue bloods.  UNC likely is the best job now that NIL is a thing.  That’s Nike’s crown jewel for college basketball programs, plus Michael Jordan / Jordan Brand could be the most powerful influencer in the sport if he isn’t too salty to make deals with college players.

Kentucky is the most cutthroat program and the one that is least amenable to losing, which I guess if things are going well means it might be easiest to win there.  But it’s also probably a more miserable and pressure-packed job than even the other blue bloods.

Duke is the one that might go the way of Indiana sometime in the future now that Coach K is gone.  Nothing about a small school with dorky rich kid fans screams natural basketball powerhouse, except for the fact that Coach K made them elite for so long.  It would still take a lot of years of being mediocre before the luster wears off and fans stop putting the program on a pedestal, but it could happen.  

Great post. 

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shadow_operative

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6 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Y’all are talking about different things. Just move on. Shit.

agreed. we've established that Texas is the best job available outside of the major blue bloods (and many coaches would prefer Texas over the likes of kentucky, ucla, and duke), and that the Texas job is a top 5-ish national job. now let's get back to nodding our heads in agreement that our next coach should be a guy who's got no head coaching experience at a large program, and whose MO is to pound the air out of the ball while shooting worse than everyone else in the country.

 

8B162CC5-F3E3-4B8B-BCD1-E17FEC23A13D.thumb.jpeg.9e2a798b05d1a3597b57e61c8ea28979.jpeg

 

363rd in average possession length

327th in 2P FG%

317th in effective FG%
 

woof.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Posted (edited)

as long as i live (so probably not that much longer), i'll never forget/stop incredulously trashing the idea that a bunch of people here on surly (aka people who actually follow this sport/program more closely than 99% of UT fans) actually all agreed that grant fucking mccasland would be a great hire to replace chris beard. it's the hoops board equivalent of football posters seriously suggesting that we replace Sark (or even better, Mack) with that Navy HC who runs the wing-T/triple option. mind blowing that this was a serious suggestion. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Posted (edited)

and while i'm on a roll, let's go back to ~5-6 years ago when i was catching shit left and right for saying that mick cronin and eric musselman would be the guys i wanted to replace shaka, way before either of their names ever rang out like they do today. i never hear the end of it when i get something wrong, so i'll go ahead and leave this here for posterity. i won't hold my breath on receiving my flowers from the denizens of surly, but i will go ahead and give them to myself right now:

way to go derka! you really do know basketball, and everyone here appreciates your presence and insight. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

edit: Denizens Of Surly would be a cool band name. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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9 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

There isn’t a college football equivalent right now.  FSU, Florida and Miami in the 80s in college football are pretty equivalent to the major Texas universities in basketball now, though.  When big population centers grow and start focusing more on a sport, it is only a matter of time before the main regional schools start to benefit from the local talent pool exploding.

Two of five consensus #1 high school bball recruits have come from the state of Texas.  2020 Cade Cunningham 2024 Tre Johnson.  I meant to quote your other post but Texas bball recruiting has passed Texas football recruiting in terms of elite talent production. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19068

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42 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

and while i'm on a roll, let's go back to ~5-6 years ago when i was catching shit left and right for saying that mick cronin and eric musselman would be the guys i wanted to replace shaka, way before either of their names ever rang out like they do today. i never hear the end of it when i get something wrong, so i'll go ahead and leave this here for posterity. i won't hold my breath on receiving my flowers from the denizens of surly, but i will go ahead and give them to myself right now:

way to go derka! you really do know basketball, and everyone here appreciates your presence and insight. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

edit: Denizens Of Surly would be a cool band name. 

This board is so stupid I never got more shit than for a post on Christmas of 2011 when I said the NBA was in the era of Lebron. That was a throwaway line while kind of doing a state of the nba and talking about what the national team might look like. I literally thought it was so self evident as to not be worth discussing in even the most cursory manner.  But I got absolutely flayed. The reason?  People are stupid. Shake it off. You know more hoops than 99% of this board. 

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Herpa Derpa

Herpa Derpa 6123

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8 hours ago, redswingline said:

This is one way to come up with a list: total championships.

 

ncaam.jpg.482f4e39effb15e022a72a58edd7acc6.jpg

 

 

As others have already pointed out, you're arguing program legacy when the discussion is current coaching job.

But I would ask you how long does UCLA get to remain Top 5 without a title? We're approaching 30 years since the last one. Or Indiana? There's not a soul under 35 that's ever seen a title season in Bloomington.  And are you seriously trying to argue that UTEP is a better program than Texas because 1966?

By comparison, do you claim that Yale, Princeton, Harvard and Minnesota are Top 10 NCAA football programs? Yale has the most recognized titles, so Saban must be dying to get that job. 

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