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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

alphahorn

By alphahorn
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MAUFRAIS
MAUFRAIS

that's an attitude that would make sense to me if i went to tech

pacman
pacman

Two words: Urban. Meyer.

Pancho
Pancho

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Js1

Js1 85310

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8 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I hope that Oats thing isn’t true. I’ll post something on IT to Gerry to see what he says as I trust him more than Kurt. 

There's literally no source. We know CDC doesn't leak. 

"Probably" is the key word here.  It's what KB thinks or has been told by the Bama side.  He could make better money at Texas.  We haven't been to the second weekend since 2008, so we clearly aren't going to pressure the shit out of Oats here. 

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Sheep Have Wool

Sheep Have Wool 1053

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24 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Truly have no opinion on the matter, just wanted to use the meme. But would the basketball savants please enlighten me as to Mr. Tang's chances of success at Texas.

It's impossible to know how he'd do with such a limited resume as a head coach at the college level. I bet not even one person here knows how good he is at returning text messages.

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Js1

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33 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

 

Truly have no opinion on the matter, just wanted to use the meme. But would the basketball savants please enlighten me as to Mr. Tang's chances of success at Texas.

He's having a great regular season, no doubt.

But the sample size is quite small and I'd like to see how he does in the tournament.  Having a great regular season and losing in the first round is what we had with Shaka, and we forced him to take that Marquette job, and losing in the second round with basically what we had with late Texas career Barnes. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45898

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10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He's having a great regular season, no doubt.

But the sample size is quite small and I'd like to see how he does in the tournament.  Having a great regular season and losing in the first round is what we had with Shaka, and we forced him to take that Marquette job, and losing in the second round with basically what we had with late Texas career Barnes. 

The problem of small sample sizes works in the other direction, too.  Shaka made a Final Four with VCU.  Then, he got here and shit the bed.

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Js1

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

The problem of small sample sizes works in the other direction, too.  Shake made a Final Four with VCU.  Then, he got here and shit the bed.

ACHSKULLY

He had a 6 season resume - CBI championship, F4, 2nd round, 2nd round, 1st round, 1st round.  Never won the A-10 or CAA regular season and only won the conference tournament twice. 

The signs were there. He was also hired by a complete moron. 

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Pancho

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5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The problem of small sample sizes works in the other direction, too.  Shake made a Final Four with VCU.  Then, he got here and shit the bed.

Shaka was at VCU for 6 years (I believe) compared to Tang’s 1 year as HC.

I’m curious why Tang was an assistant for so long (19 years).

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jimmyjazz

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5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

ACHSKULLY

He had a 6 season resume - CBI championship, F4, 2nd round, 2nd round, 1st round, 1st round.  Never won the A-10 or CAA regular season and only won the conference tournament twice. 

The signs were there. He was also hired by a complete moron. 

No disagreement there, I'm just saying we need not overemphasize what might be fleeting tournament success.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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as banged up as they are, it would be awesome if arkansas could keep on sliding and if their fans can get even a little bit restless with musselman. we offer him double his salary to move to Austin and take over at the moody center, and he has to think about it, right? i'm grasping at straws here, sure, but dreams are all i have right now. let a man dream.

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CowtownHorn

CowtownHorn 5126

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31 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

as banged up as they are, it would be awesome if arkansas could keep on sliding and if their fans can get even a little bit restless with musselman. we offer him double his salary to move to Austin and take over at the moody center, and he has to think about it, right? i'm grasping at straws here, sure, but dreams are all i have right now. let a man dream.

 

57C51AC1-A3FE-4FB5-B255-109C9C6C3C76.jpeg

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7513

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

as banged up as they are, it would be awesome if arkansas could keep on sliding and if their fans can get even a little bit restless with musselman. we offer him double his salary to move to Austin and take over at the moody center, and he has to think about it, right? i'm grasping at straws here, sure, but dreams are all i have right now. let a man dream.

He's made two Elite Eights in a row after they've been wandering in a really dry desert for a long long time. Much longer than us. Before Musselman, the last time they made the Sweet 16 was in '96 (and that was as a #12 seed). That was 5 coaches ago. As Charlton Heston would say, we'll have to pry Musselman from their cold dead hands. 

I'm not ruling anything out, whether I'm surprised in a good way or a bad way. But it won't be because Arkansas fans suddenly become less enamored with their head coach. They know they've struck gold. 

I'll patiently wait until after the season. We're going to hear so many bullshit rumors until then, with no one knowing what the fuck is going on. Kirk Bohls' article being the latest. What a fucking tool. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13032

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21 hours ago, Js1 said:

ACHSKULLY

He had a 6 season resume - CBI championship, F4, 2nd round, 2nd round, 1st round, 1st round.  Never won the A-10 or CAA regular season and only won the conference tournament twice. 

The signs were there. He was also hired by a complete moron. 

Yup. Shaka made that FF which was a big deal, but his overall success at VCU was probably less than the coaches there that preceded him.

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NoName

NoName 16351

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37 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yup. Shaka made that FF which was a big deal, but his overall success at VCU was probably less than the coaches there that preceded him.

 

not like i am some huge Shaka fan, but that isn't the case at VCU success wise.

he has the 2nd highest win% in VCU history and they had 4 NCAA appearances from 85 to 09 when he started, then he had 5 in 6 years.

image.png.6222f681defe567aa57b0993c4f66670.png

 

image.thumb.png.59b16b54b9118dea4faa096933572b9e.png

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shadow_operative

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anthony grant, jeff capel, and will wade were all equal/better coaches at VCU, and all three won conference titles, something shaka never did despite coaching there for twice as long as those guys. shaka also had more talent than those guys, including one team that had three future nba players on it that, again, couldn't win the league. VCU's basketball success more or less remained the same no matter who was coaching over that 12 year period, again, with the exception being that they never won the league during shaka's six years there.

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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18 minutes ago, NoName said:

they had 4 NCAA appearances from 85 to 09 when he started

Yeah and 3 of those were in the 6 seasons before he showed up. 

One of Shaka's appearances was a round of 68 first-four fwiw. 

He also never won the A10. Despite VCU winning it 4 times in the prior 6 seasons and twice in the first 4 seasons after he left. 

So, yes, he's the best coach they've ever had (at least - he's had the best tourney results) but his overall results were fairly similar to some of the guys before and after him. 

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ztejas

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1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

VCU's basketball success more or less remained the same no matter who was coaching over that 12 year period, again, with the exception being that they never won the league during shaka's six years there.

I mean the FF run is the other exception. We can't pretend like that didn't happen - as much of an outlier as it's proven to be. 

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Js1

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

I mean the FF run is the other exception. We can't pretend like that didn't happen - as much of an outlier as it's proven to be. 

It happened. It was the most special thing he did at VCU and his entire career, period.  It likely won't ever happen again for him. 

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shadow_operative

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10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean the FF run is the other exception. We can't pretend like that didn't happen - as much of an outlier as it's proven to be. 

that's true, although it's important to point out that the 2011 VCU team was universally decried as the worst team to ever be allowed into the tournament, and for good reason. VCU finished *fourth* in the Atlantic 10, did not win their conference tourney, and was ranked #84 by kenpom when given their at large bid. and it's not like they were getting hot at the right time either. here's how they finished the season:

187C8DAE-ECE6-4BF7-A60E-20092F3BC9FB.thumb.jpeg.ba4298f9bd34f91dc8b7970f57ca3342.jpeg

it was absolute horse shit that the 2011 VCU team was given an at large bid. still to this day the worst team ever given an at large bid, despite the ensuing miracle run to the final four. it's truly amazing to think how different shaka's career path would be had that team not been absolutely gifted a tourney spot. 

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ztejas

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11 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

that's true, although it's important to point out that the 2011 VCU team was universally decried as the worst team to ever be allowed into the tournament, and for good reason. VCU finished *fourth* in the Atlantic 10, did not win their conference tourney, and was ranked #84 by kenpom when given their at large bid. and it's not like they were getting hot at the right time either. here's how they finished the season:

187C8DAE-ECE6-4BF7-A60E-20092F3BC9FB.thumb.jpeg.ba4298f9bd34f91dc8b7970f57ca3342.jpeg

it was absolute horse shit that the 2011 VCU team was given an at large bid. still to this day the worst team ever given an at large bid, despite the ensuing miracle run to the final four. it's truly amazing to think how different shaka's career path would be had that team not been absolutely gifted a tourney spot. 

Totally forgot about that. 

What a hilarious career he's had. 

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shadow_operative

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11 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

that's true, although it's important to point out that the 2011 VCU team was universally decried as the worst team to ever be allowed into the tournament, and for good reason. VCU finished *fourth* in the Atlantic 10, did not win their conference tourney, and was ranked #84 by kenpom when given their at large bid. and it's not like they were getting hot at the right time either. here's how they finished the season:

187C8DAE-ECE6-4BF7-A60E-20092F3BC9FB.thumb.jpeg.ba4298f9bd34f91dc8b7970f57ca3342.jpeg

it was absolute horse shit that the 2011 VCU team was given an at large bid. still to this day the worst team ever given an at large bid, despite the ensuing miracle run to the final four. it's truly amazing to think how different shaka's career path would be had that team not been absolutely gifted a tourney spot. 

can no longer edit, but they did not finish 4th in the A-10 that year, they finished fourth in the Colonial Athletic Association. seriously, what kind of mystical forces were in play that led to that team first being let into the tourney and then going on a run like that? it makes absolutely zero sense. just baffling.

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7513

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On 1/19/2023 at 4:35 PM, Pancho said:

I don’t know that we will be competing with Notre Dame for a corch, but that is a good job.

It's definitely a decent job. But they won't pay what Texas will, and they'll have some limitations on who the head coach can recruit academically. Transfers will be tougher to get in, too, and the NIL program for basketball isn't as robust. 

I'm not arguing with you. You already said, "I don't know that we will be competing with Notre Dame for a coach...." Just clarifying in basic ways why the Texas job is better. Regardless of history or anything else, Notre Dame hasn't been willing to compromise as much to compete in sports overall as much as Texas has been willing to. 

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7513

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On 1/19/2023 at 1:54 PM, shadow_operative said:

shaka owes his entire life to the 2011 tournament committee. he really does. he's one of the luckiest people alive to be where he is. failing upwards for more than a decade now.

 

Is Marquette falling upwards? Because I don't think it is. It's still a pretty impressive job given his resume over the past 6 years, that's for sure. 

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7513

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On 1/19/2023 at 1:56 PM, Hermanator said:

I guess it's fitting you bastards are arguing over Shaka yet again since that's the level of basketball we're on the way back to watching

Depends on who they get.

One thing I know is that Shaka Smart is gone. If the next guy performs at that level, he'll be gone, too. Hopefully he doesn't perform at that level. It could go either way. I'm excited to see who we get. 

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7038

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3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Depends on who they get.

One thing I know is that Shaka Smart is gone. If the next guy performs at that level, he'll be gone, too. Hopefully he doesn't perform at that level. It could go either way. I'm excited to see who we get. 

We don't exactly have a track record of greatness in that area. I'll believe we find a coach who has a chance at delivering a title when I see it. I'm just not optimistic we'll find a fit who can get it done. We never get that lucky 

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SL Xpress 7513

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3 hours ago, Hermanator said:

We don't exactly have a track record of greatness in that area. I'll believe we find a coach who has a chance at delivering a title when I see it. I'm just not optimistic we'll find a fit who can get it done. We never get that lucky 

 

There has never been the investment in men's basketball that exists today. Never. What you see as a lack of greatness, I see as a steady rise in improvement. From Abe Lemons, and then the horrible stretch under Bob Wetlich, to Tom Penders, to Rick Barnes, to the horrible stretch under Smart, to what looked like it was going to be the golden fairy land of basketball Valhalla under Beard. It didn't work out that way, but it's not because of incompetence with the hiring process or the support given.

I have no idea if the next guy will be the right guy. It's a fucking roulette wheel in many respects, especially when all that's going to be satisfying ultimately is a Hall of Fame level, top ten in the country type of guy. What I can say is that the program has never been in a better position to hire that guy than they are right now, nor have they ever been in a better position to give him the support necessary to win at the highest level.

What I can tell you is that if he doesn't work out, they try someone new. Same as everyone else. Same as North Carolina with Doherty. Same as Kentucky with the end of Hall's reign, the firing of Sutton, the dismissal of Smith, and the disaster of Gillispie. Same as UCLA with their list. It's hard to find the right guy. The only ones with the secret sauce right now is Kansas, who is now on their third Hall of Fame hire in a row. 

There's no magic eight ball. You do the best you can and hope for the best. But UT has done an outstanding job of putting an infrastructure in place in virtually every way that matters to help the men's basketball team to succeed. Let's see who they get, and how they do. I'm not ready to write the next guy off until I see what kind of product he puts on the court.

I remember last year on this board there were a multitude of complaints about Beard's team, his approach, and the results. All I saw was a crazy bright future. I'd like to have that feeling again. Without a doubt it's possible, regardless of how likely or unlikely it remains.

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