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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

alphahorn

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MAUFRAIS
MAUFRAIS

that's an attitude that would make sense to me if i went to tech

pacman
pacman

Two words: Urban. Meyer.

Pancho
Pancho

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11 minutes ago, MAUFRAIS said:

that's an attitude that would make sense to me if i went to tech

Look, I’m not dismissing a certain level of loyalty to where somebody did their undergrad. It doesn’t just necessarily trump the years at another institution where somebody built their career and has had absolute support in doing so.

And to the other poster, Roy going to UNC isn’t the same.  The fact that some fans on here think that way with regard to the UT job is just as much an indictment of a fanbase’s attitude.

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9 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Did you read about Roy Williams leaving Kansas for UNC?  Don't be obtuse.

Never heard of him...

 

Did he enjoy the level of support at KU that Beard has at Tech?

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Fondren & Main

Fondren & Main 6878

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1 minute ago, slorch said:

Look, I’m not dismissing a certain level of loyalty to where somebody did their undergrad. It doesn’t just totally trump the years in another institution where somebody built their career and has had absolute support in doing so.

And to the other poster, Roy going to UNC isn’t the same.  The fact that some fans on here think that way with regard to the UT job is just as much an indictment of a fanbase’s attitude.

It's exactly the same.  I don't know Chris Beard's love for UT, but I know your love for Tech.  You'd leave Duke for Tech.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19563

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All things being equal as far as financial commitment goes there is no way I would turn down the UT job. I imagine most here would say that. Does Beard feel that way? Who knows. But there is nothing that makes tech a better job and he’s an alum here. I’d put it at more likely than not that he comes home, but maybe being an alum here doesn’t matter. I can’t see this thing dragging out past this week with him. 

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Bevo14

Bevo14 8468

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9 minutes ago, slorch said:

Look, I’m not dismissing a certain level of loyalty to where somebody did their undergrad. It doesn’t just necessarily trump the years at another institution where somebody built their career and has had absolute support in doing so.

And to the other poster, Roy going to UNC isn’t the same.  The fact that some fans on here think that way with regard to the UT job is just as much an indictment of a fanbase’s attitude.

The comparison is Kansas:UNC to Tech:UT, not UT to UNC.

Edited by Bevo14
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Js1

Js1 87028

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4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

All things being equal as far as financial commitment goes there is no way I would turn down the UT job. I imagine most here would say that. Does Beard feel that way? Who knows. But there is nothing that makes tech a better job and he’s an alum here. I’d put it at more likely than not that he comes home, but maybe being an alum here doesn’t matter. I can’t see this thing dragging out past this week with him. 

It's not just being an alum or a potential $5.5-$6m salary.

Where would you rather recruit to - Austin and only 3 hours from Dallas/Houston or Lubbock and 5 hours from Dallas/9 hours from Houston? The top 5 players in the state in 2020 were all basically 3 hours from Austin (and Greg Brown was right under our nose). 

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Burt Macklin

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1 hour ago, slorch said:

Actually if  he was leaving for one of the schools you mention and throw in Duke for good measure; it would make sense to everyone.  The Texas job is not in that category and neither is Tech, but Beard has had basically unlimited support of his program. Therein lies the rub.  Beard has done it in Lubbock.  He doesn’t need UT to win it all.  Itwill not be for moneyif he leaves, and that’s the pisser, if that should indeed, happen.

Just because neither Tech nor UT are on the level of UNC or Duke, doesn’t mean that Tech and UT are equal. UT is still an imminently better opportunity with much better access to talent than Tech.

And I hate to break it to you, but y’all actually lost that national title game. I know it felt like a win for Tech fans, but it still doesn’t count. 

And it actually does look like Beard needs a better spot than Tech to get back to the Final Four and win it all. Y’all are 18-17 in conference the last two years and nowhere near winning a title. 

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 5061

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So what is it going to be for Texas and Texas Tech fans? Search is just in a holding pattern. I personally would like to see Royal Ivey since I already lived through 6 years of basketball being unwatchable. I could live with 3 more if Ivey does not work out. What I could not live with is a guy that cost us a ton of money and is here for 5 years due to buy out money and somehow starts to suck due to hitting the jackpot. 18-17 in conference in the last two years is worrisome.

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Edited by DanTheHorn
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Dirk X West

Dirk X West 772

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13 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Just because neither Tech nor UT are on the level of UNC or Duke, doesn’t mean that Tech and UT are equal. UT is still an imminently better opportunity with much better access to talent than Tech.

And I hate to break it to you, but y’all actually lost that national title game. I know it felt like a win for Tech fans, but it still doesn’t count. 

And it actually does look like Beard needs a better spot than Tech to get back to the Final Four and win it all. Y’all are 18-17 in conference the last two years and nowhere near winning a title. 

Beard has recruited multiple 4 star players over the last two years, so, in other words, much better talent from a recruiting standpoint than Tech has ever had in the past and, more importantly, much better talent (again, on paper) than he had on the teams that went to the Elite 8 and the Final Four.  Keeping that in mind, is there any chance Tech's record over the last two seasons might have something to do with Beard and his staff and how they've coached up these players and not just stand as a manifestation of the real or perceived inadequacies of Tech as an institution, and/or Lubbock as a city?

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Burt Macklin

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10 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Beard has recruited multiple 4 star players over the last two years, so, in other words, much better talent from a recruiting standpoint than Tech has ever had in the past and, more importantly, much better talent (again, on paper) than he had on the teams that went to the Elite 8 and the Final Four.  Keeping that in kind, is there any chance Tech's record over the last two seasons might have something to do with Beard and his staff and how they've coached up these players and not just stand as a manifestation of the real or perceived inadequacies of Tech as an institution, and/or Lubbock as a city?

I absolutely have questions about Beard and don’t think he’s the sure thing many people seem to be making him out to be, but I don’t think anyone can credibly argue that he wouldn’t have better access to talent at UT than he does at Tech. He’s definitely recruited higher rated guys  the last couple years, but he’s also missed on some targets that he might have been able to get at Texas. 


And slorch’s take that he has everything he needs at Tech to win a title and acting like UT and Tech are on the same level because neither are UNC or Duke is just way off. 

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TrashMaster G

TrashMaster G 18037

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1 hour ago, slorch said:

He built his career at Texas Tech. It doesn’t make a fuck where he graduated college.

That may be true for you.  Not for everybody else.  The relevant question is: Is it true for Chris Beard?

 

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Look, I’m not dismissing a certain level of loyalty to where somebody did their undergrad. It doesn’t just necessarily trump the years at another institution where somebody built their career and has had absolute support in doing so.

Again, that's true for you.  Is it for Beard?  From reading your posts, you are clearly afraid that it is not.  And I'd say you are wise to be afraid.

Just don't go off screaming that it's a dumb decision if that is the one that Beard makes.  Judging him by what YOU believe and what YOU would have done is pretty silly.

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TrashMaster G

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10 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I absolutely have questions about Beard and don’t think he’s the sure thing many people seem to be making him out to be, but I don’t think anyone can credibly argue that he wouldn’t have better access to talent at UT than he does at Tech. He’s definitely recruited higher rated guys  the last couple years, but he’s also missed on some targets that he might have been able to get at Texas. 

Who's saying he's a sure thing?

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SimonBolivar

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21 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I absolutely have questions about Beard and don’t think he’s the sure thing many people seem to be making him out to be, but I don’t think anyone can credibly argue that he wouldn’t have better access to talent at UT than he does at Tech. He’s definitely recruited higher rated guys  the last couple years, but he’s also missed on some targets that he might have been able to get at Texas. 


And slorch’s take that he has everything he needs at Tech to win a title and acting like UT and Tech are on the same level because neither are UNC or Duke is just way off. 

They went to OT in the title game 2 years ago so he certainly does have everything ne needs. That doesn't mean it's as easy at Tech as it is at UT though. It would be at least a bit easier in Austin if not substantially easier.

Edited by SimonBolivar
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PilotsError

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19 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

They went to OT in the title game 2 years ago so he certainly does have everything ne needs. That doesn't mean it's as easy at Tech as it is at UT though. It would be at least a bit easier in Austin if not substantially easier.

 

Because it's always been so easy for Texas to make final fours...

UT and Austin have always had these advantages and yet....one final four?  The university, culture and resources might not be as important, or even at, as everyone thinks.  There is no history here that says it's substantially easier to win shit at Texas.

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Mo Horn

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1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Quick reminder that there are discussions to allow high schoolers to go straight to the pros as early as 2022.  Recruiting will look completely different once that occurs.  Convincing a high school basketball star to spend multiple years in Lubbock, TX is very different than asking them to spend 6 months.

And if they're going to spend multiple years, Austin is easier to sell than Lubbock. 

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HookEm

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The comparison is Kansas:UNC to Tech:UT

This is generous to Tech.

That said, I do think college sports are different - especially basketball.  It is possible to build a powerhouse at a location that isn't exactly desirable.  Is Lubbock so much worse than East Lansing, Bloomington, Louisville, or Memphis.  The airport is easy to get to and makes all of Texas accessible.  They have really good facilities and are kings of the campus. The "talent" on campus is better than anything you will find in the mid-west.  Beard has already shown he can recruit 4 and 5-star talent to Lubbock.  

The main thing he has at Tech that he won't have at Texas is a really long leash.  His hard-ass underdog style of coaching actually may play better with the recruits he will land and the Tech alumni than it will at Texas.

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El Squared

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

It's not just being an alum or a potential $5.5-$6m salary.

Where would you rather recruit to - Austin and only 3 hours from Dallas/Houston or Lubbock and 5 hours from Dallas/9 hours from Houston? The top 5 players in the state in 2020 were all basically 3 hours from Austin (and Greg Brown was right under our nose). 

I don’t think Beards system depends upon getting 5stars, and not all 5 stars may want his system. Tech has a great practice facility. For basketball and plenty of horizontal refreshment for the players. Beard doesn’t have to have a big city to succeed, and he is getting paid well. We shall see. Would love to finally have a great coach that excels in March, no matter who it is.

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Hornlover

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Probably folly at this point, but I looked at every single coach that has been to the Sweet 16 over the last 5 tournaments. Of the 46 coaches, 31 are not under consideration (won't leave, too scummy, sucks, too old, etc.). That leaves 15 coaches that could be possible. Some of them may also be too slimy, too shitty, or not leaving their current position for Texas, but it's worth at least kicking the tires on them. 

Otherwise, we are either grabbing a coach that hasn't been to the Sweet 16 recently (like Ritchie McKay or Joe Golding) or doesn't coach in college (Royal Ivey). 

 

Spoiler

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Spoiler

image.png.d21f73fb7f4790d6fe985993747cb143.png

 

Edited by Hornlover
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Nowhichski

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9 minutes ago, HookEm said:

This is generous to Tech.

That said, I do think college sports are different - especially basketball.  It is possible to build a powerhouse at a location that isn't exactly desirable.  Is Lubbock so much worse than East Lansing, Bloomington, Louisville, or Memphis.  The airport is easy to get to and makes all of Texas accessible.  They have really good facilities and are kings of the campus. The "talent" on campus is better than anything you will find in the mid-west.  Beard has already shown he can recruit 4 and 5-star talent to Lubbock.  

The main thing he has at Tech that he won't have at Texas is a really long leash.  His hard-ass underdog style of coaching actually may play better with the recruits he will land and the Tech alumni than it will at Texas.

College basketball defies geography. Look at Gonzaga. A good coach can build a program anywhere if it has identity and buy-in. It might take longer at a place like Lubbock, but consistency can get you there. And indeed winning programs are built on three and four-star players. We should probably hope to have a coach who wisely recruits core players who will stay 3-4 years and truly create a culture and a system. 

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El Squared

El Squared 1838

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42 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

They went to OT in the title game 2 years ago so he certainly does have everything ne needs. That doesn't mean it's as easy at Tech as it is at UT though. It would be at least a bit easier in Austin if not substantially easier.

Based on what? Our final 4 in 2003?

Having KD for a year? We have not done better than Tech to this point in BB. We need to win the tournament to claim that brag. Despite all our “advantages” it hasn’t happened . Hopefully we get someone who is capable.

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Pancho

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12 minutes ago, HookEm said:

This is generous to Tech.

That said, I do think college sports are different - especially basketball.  It is possible to build a powerhouse at a location that isn't exactly desirable.  Is Lubbock so much worse than East Lansing, Bloomington, Louisville, or Memphis.  The airport is easy to get to and makes all of Texas accessible.  They have really good facilities and are kings of the campus. The "talent" on campus is better than anything you will find in the mid-west.  Beard has already shown he can recruit 4 and 5-star talent to Lubbock.  

The main thing he has at Tech that he won't have at Texas is a really long leash.  His hard-ass underdog style of coaching actually may play better with the recruits he will land and the Tech alumni than it will at Texas.

For fans and coaches yes. For players and their families? Not really. The families of players still pretty much drive to games. 
 

 

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17786

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23 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

 

Because it's always been so easy for Texas to make final fours...

UT and Austin have always had these advantages and yet....one final four?  The university, culture and resources might not be as important, or even at, as everyone thinks.  There is no history here that says it's substantially easier to win shit at Texas.

Butler made the title game two years in a row.  You can make it from nearly anywhere.  

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El Squared

El Squared 1838

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2 minutes ago, Nowhichski said:

College basketball defies geography. Look at Gonzaga. A good coach can build a program anywhere if it has identity and buy-in. It might take longer at a place like Lubbock, but consistency can get you there. And indeed winning programs are built on three and four-star players. We should probably hope to have a coach who wisely recruits core players who will stay 3-4 years and truly create a culture and a system. 

IIRC in college ball, most of the tournament winners have had experienced teams, rather than a collection of one and dones, excepting KY , Fab 4/5 etc. maybe I’m wrong.

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17786

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4 minutes ago, Hornlover said:

Yeah. Who would have ever guessed Indianapolis would be a hotbed for basketball?

Yes. I’m sure Stevens out recruited the fuck out of Shaka.  Hey Shaka almost won it all at Vcu. Why’d he leave for Texas?   Derp.  I’m sure coach K are awaiting that butler opening.  Btw take the ten best high school kids from Houston and they’d wipe the floor vs the Indians high school all stars.   Just about any year.  
 

hows butler doing since stevens bailed?

Edited by closetohumping
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Doyle Hargreaves

Doyle Hargreaves 301

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FWIW, I dont think Beard will leave Texas Tech. But if he did, it would MAYBE be for Texas or the NBA. 
Personally, I love the guy. Part of that stems from his buy in to the culture of West Texas and his love for Texas Tech and our players from decades past. 
 

Thats just it. I think if he had a desire to lead Texas. He is still going to be extremely torn and conflicted about how that will effect his relationships in West Texas. I think he is an exception to the rule in this respect. He is genuine and its a part of who he is and how he coaches. I think ultimately he is happy in Lubbock and unless there is something behind the scenes relationship wise with Tech admins or boosters, he stays. 

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