WCGW: lets do a 180° turn in the Suez Canal

[El Diablo 4,232]

Seems like @Vic Mackey might be a good consultant on this sort of thing. 

[clapclapclap 9,000]

6 hours ago, Orange&White said:

At $400M an hour in losses, get a fleet of Egyptian military choppers and start picking off those containers one at a time in rotation.

The Sharif don't like it!

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

The Sharif don't like it!

Neither do the Lloyds in London.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

Maritime insurance is complicated.  The fallout on this will be interesting.

Edited March 27, 2021 by conVINCEd

[workswithseed 2,103]

On 3/25/2021 at 5:34 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Post of the month right here !! ^^^^^

 

END THREAD.

I don't get it.

[Guest Lobo]

Jack needed a break, okay?!?

[F250 28,772]

14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I don't get it.

"Russian captains sometime turn suddenly to see if anyone's behind them. We call it "Crazy Ivan." The only thing you can do is go dead. Shut everything down and make like a hole in the water."

 

[Guest Lobo]

Well, we’re now oficially in the bottom half of the hour so you can tell him the real reason. 

[Updawg 2,266]

[F250 28,772]

To be fair to @workswithseed
the movie came out before he was born.

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

11 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Seems like @Vic Mackey might be a good consultant on this sort of thing. 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

On 3/25/2021 at 3:54 PM, Lobo said:

If you ever need to understand why a substantial U.S. Navy is necessary, look at all the commerce and inter-dependency out on those waters.  Not pirates, but another nation's Navy could go rogue for 48 hours, target a few dozen of those ships for sinking, and the halt our global economy would take would make Covid-19 look like a misunderstanding.  Nevermind, the essential supplies on some of those ships as well.

Lol you think sinking a few dozen ships with some rogue navy would make the economy tank magnitudes worse than covid19?!

 Gimme what you’re smoking.  I could really use that shit after the last 12 months...

[Guest Lobo]

Well my scenario included the tacitly obvious global sea-based war thst ensues.  Wars ain’t as good for the economy as they used to be. 

[phdhorn 6,224]

On 3/25/2021 at 2:35 AM, washparkhorn said:

The bulbous bow is buried to the hilt.  

No one will ever accuse me of being Admiral Nimitz, but WTF, a protruding wing at the bow?  I guess it's for stability but I can just see the conversation now:

"Sir, the design for the Ever Given is almost done, looks great!"
"Alright, but add this pointy thing sticking out of the front."
"Why, sir?"
"Well, just in case we go up a canal, if we mishandle the ship, this thing will dig into the bank and hold this sucker tighter than a boa constrictor."
"But... but why would we want to do that?"
"Because we can, son.  Because we can.  You have a lot to learn about shipbuilding!"
"Yes, sir."

[RPM 26,320]

13 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

No one will ever accuse me of being Admiral Nimitz, but WTF, a protruding wing at the bow?

It's called a bulbous bow. It greatly improves the way a ship cuts through the water. Less drag = more efficient.

[ERhine 1,894]

16 hours ago, Updawg said:

I wonder how insurance works in this situation. Gonna be some lawyers involved
 

The vessel is registered with the UK P&I Club.  Wikipedia has a good basic explanation:

Quote

Protection and indemnity insurance, more commonly known as P&I insurance, is a form of mutual maritime insurance provided by a P&I club.^[1] Whereas a marine insurance company provides "hull and machinery" cover for shipowners, and cargo cover for cargo owners, a P&I club provides cover for open-ended risks that traditional insurers are reluctant to insure. Typical P&I cover includes: a carrier's third-party risks for damage caused to cargo during carriage;^[2] war risks;^[3] and risks of environmental damage such as oil spills and pollution. In the UK, both traditional underwriters and P&I clubs are subject to the Marine Insurance Act 1906.

A P&I club is a mutual insurance association that provides risk pooling, information and representation for its members. Unlike a marine insurance company, which reports to its shareholders, a P&I club reports only to its members. Originally, P&I club members were typically shipowners, ship operators or demise charterers, but more recently freight forwarders and warehouse operators have been able to join.

Whereas the assured pays a premium to an underwriter for cover which lasts for a particular time (say, a year, or a voyage), a P&I club member instead pays a "call". This is a sum of money that is put into the club's pool, a kind of "kitty". If, at the end of the year, there are still funds in the pool, each member will pay a reduced call the following year; but if the club has made a major payout (say, after an oil spillage) club members will immediately have to pay a further call to replenish the pool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_and_indemnity_insurance#:~:text=Protection and indemnity insurance%2C more,provided by a P%26I club.&text=Typical P%26I cover includes%3A a,as oil spills and pollution.

As to the second question, there will be a whole bunch of litigation out of this.  At the point that there's $400 million in losses per hour, someone is going to go after the vessel interests at some point (owner, operator, manager, etc.).

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

32 minutes ago, RPM said:

It's called a bulbous bow. It greatly improves the way a ship cuts through the water. Less drag = more efficient.

Less drag and they are often designed to create a wake that cancels the ship’s wake. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Less drag and they are often designed to create a wake that cancels the ship’s wake. 

But they placed it too low, and made it too large, and it tries to drag the ship to the left, and down, so they had to redesign the ships onboard computer program to counteract the "submarine" effect ?...

 

Sorry couldn't resist : )

[HenryJames 66,049]

[phdhorn 6,224]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

It's called a bulbous bow. It greatly improves the way a ship cuts through the water. Less drag = more efficient.

Kinda sucks in canals, though.

[Trey3216 15,346]

15 hours ago, El Diablo said:

Seems like @Vic Mackey might be a good consultant on this sort of thing. 

Stuck pron is an actual occurrence for Vic’s gals 

[Armybrat 40,840]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

It's called a bulbous bow. It greatly improves the way a ship cuts through the water. Less drag = more efficient.

The Japanese battleship Yamato had a bulbous bow in WW2, and the USS Missouri had a somewhat modified design.

 

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

A bulbous bow works really, really well for large vessels that cruise for long distances within a defined speed band.  It shaves a lot off of fuel costs.  That’s why most cargo ships and tankers have them.  It probably doesn’t factor much at all into this accident, it’s not like the main problem is the bow getting lodged in the canal bank. The problem is that she’s grounded on both banks and can’t be floated. 

[Trey3216 15,346]

[Brothahorn 10,087]

7 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 

Pucker factor of 15.

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

But they placed it too low, and made it too large, and it tries to drag the ship to the left, and down, so they had to redesign the ships onboard computer program to counteract the "submarine" effect ?...

 

Sorry couldn't resist : )

All cured by the two switches that turn off the bulbous bow actuators. 

[Francisco 2.0 32,389]

NYTimes has some great photos.  There's a small village adjacent to the stuck ship, which provides  contrast to the ship:

 

 

 

[Buzzrock 14,920]

The fact that it’s named the Ever Given but has EVERGREEN written down the side triggers me every time I see photos.

I read that 20,000 cubic meters of sand need to be removed. It’s incredible that there are no other options, like hooking an aircraft carrier to the stern and dragging it out. Or blowing it up. Or *something*.

[Guest Lobo]

What would that funniest thing be?  

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Too bad Moses Malone is dead.

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

The fact that it’s named the Ever Given but has EVERGREEN written down the side triggers me every time I see photos.

I read that 20,000 cubic meters of sand need to be removed. It’s incredible that there are no other options, like hooking an aircraft carrier to the stern and dragging it out. Or blowing it up. Or *something*.
 

It’s hard for people to grasp how big this thing is. A Ford class aircraft carrier is shorter than the Ever Given and even fully loaded displaces about 100,000 fewer tons. The Ever Given is longer than the Empire State Building is tall.

Even if maybe the aircraft carrier idea might work—- we only have 11 of them.  They cost 13 billion per unit and Lloyds of London doesn’t insure them.  No one is hooking up our strategic deterrent to this thing to see if that will unstick her.

[TwiceHorn 31,463]

10 hours ago, RPM said:

It's called a bulbous bow. It greatly improves the way a ship cuts through the water. Less drag = more efficient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulbous_bow

[Message Board User 12,395]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

[conVINCEd 21,469]

You would think the people who figured out how to build the Pyramids thousands of years ago with nothing but elbow grease could figure out how to move a boat 20 feet.

[ABSR 5,311]

11 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

You would think the people who figured out how to build the Pyramids thousands of years ago with nothing but elbow grease could figure out how to move a boat 20 feet.

The Jews did this!

[Buzzrock 14,920]

What would that funniest thing be?  

Think hard Lobo.

[RPM 26,320]

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

14 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s hard for people to grasp how big this thing is. A Ford class aircraft carrier is shorter than the Ever Given and even fully loaded displaces about 100,000 fewer tons. The Ever Given is longer than the Empire State Building is tall.

Even if maybe the aircraft carrier idea might work—- we only have 11 of them.  They cost 13 billion per unit and Lloyds of London doesn’t insure them.  No one is hooking up our strategic deterrent to this thing to see if that will unstick her.

I’m not sure theres a chain or cable out there a strong enough to pull it out either.  
 

I think they need to start considering explosives to blow a hole in the banks.  

[Guest Lobo]

8 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Think hard Lobo.

 

Also getting his ship stuck?  That’s not funny.  I mean in like the tragic clown sense, it’s humorous.  Since it’s Egypt, what could be funny would be the first ship through—-drops anchor, opens its hull, and a hundred mini speedboats jump out, driven by Shiner’s wearing fezzes.  And they do their little fundraising boat routine with nautical gymnastics.  I’d watch that

[blacklab 11,928]

where did this It's costing Egypt $400 million an hour come from? GNP of egypt is a 1.1 trillion, $400 million an hour = $3.5 trillion

Quote

In 2020, the total revenue generated amounted to 5.61 billion USD and 18,829 ships with a total net tonnage of 1.17 billion passed through the canal

5.61 billion/ (365*24) =  640,000 / hour

On average 2 ships an hour pass through, are they carrying $200 million in product each?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

I don’t know anything about the Suez Canal authorities or the Egyptian govt but I’m going to assume they’re like most govts and will do a poor job of this.  They will fail and Fail and fail. It wouldn’t surprise me if they use explosives and end up sinking the ship.

Honesty this seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Aren’t these gigantic carriers getting taller and taller each year with containers? They must be difficult to control in a narrow canal.

[gurt 748]

where did this It's costing Egypt $400 million an hour come from? GNP of egypt is a 1.1 trillion, $400 million an hour = $3.5 trillion

In 2020, the total revenue generated amounted to 5.61 billion USD and 18,829 ships with a total net tonnage of 1.17 billion passed through the canal

5.61 billion/ (365*24) =  640,000 / hour
On average 2 ships an hour pass through, are they carrying $200 million in product each?

I read somewhere (can’t remember where) that it is costing the global economy 400 mill an hour, not Egypt by itself.

[TwiceHorn 31,463]

13 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

 

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don’t know anything about the Suez Canal authorities or the Egyptian govt but I’m going to assume they’re like most govts and will do a poor job of this.  They will fail and Fail and fail. It wouldn’t surprise me if they use explosives and end up sinking the ship.

Honesty this seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Aren’t these gigantic carriers getting taller and taller each year with containers? They must be difficult to control in a narrow canal.

When you look at those aerial container ship trackers, it's a miracle that this doesn't happen more often.  

But yeah, any nautical engineers wanna talk us through what would happen if during a tow, or fucking up the earth moving at the bow, or tugboat screwup...if that thing were not even topple-but just lose a few hundred containers off the top?  I'm guessing the draw there isn't forgiving enough to have a hundred feet of multi-modal containers sunk down there for future traffic?  I guess you send divers to affix towing cables to each one and setup temporary cranes to just drag 'em up and dump 'em on the shore haphazard and quick-like?  That would be another fucking disaster.  

Is this really costing the global economy $10bn/day?  So by the end of today, that's $60bn?  That's gotta be worse than any 6-day period of the Covid-19 pandemic?  

 

[RPM 26,320]

Good news. They got the rudder ungrounded and moved it 100 ft. Waiting on high tide now.

Late Saturday, tugboat drivers sounded their horns in celebration of the most visible sign of progress since the ship ran aground late Tuesday:

The 220,000-ton ship moved.

Granted, it did not go far — just two degrees, or about 100 feet, according to shipping officials. But that came on top of progress in the days before, when canal officials said dredgers had managed to dig out the rear of the ship, freeing its rudder.

By Saturday afternoon, they had dredged 18 meters down into the canal’s eastern bank. But officials cautioned that the ship’s bow remained firmly planted in the soil and that the operation still faced significant hurdles.

[LongestHorn 759]

Massive marine airbags might help.  Like the ones you see when the launch ships.  Might get it moving for the tug boats.

Might make it worse.  
 

[Guest Lobo]

When I was working as an engineer for Kramerica Industries, we had this invention for a deployable bladder system inside the hull of the ship.  It was my idea for the bladder to be able to shoot out out the hull like an intertube so that if we were to breach into land or another ship...we'd just bounce off and get back on course.  I wonder what happened to those guys? 

[workswithseed 2,103]