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WCGW: lets do a 180° turn in the Suez Canal

AUS-97HORN

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Being pulled through the Suez. It will take weeks/months to unfuck the world's biggest traffic jam.

The ship's captain should be shot.

Oooooh sorry, the judges were looking for hang him from the tallest yard arm or keel haul him.... They'd also accept let him kiss the gunners daughter.

Edited by Onboard 2.0
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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted

https://gcaptain.com/ever-given-grounding-the-latest-from-the-ship-manager/

Bolded below. Did the canal pilots fuck up or did the Captain fuck up? Also, shipping is a weird world where apparently nationalities do not matter. Company is operated out of Taiwan for Japanese owners with and all Indian crew.

At the time of the incident, Ever Given was transiting northbound through the canal en route to Rotterdam, Netherlands with two canal pilots onboard.

BSM reports that Initial investigations still suggest the vessel grounded due to strong wind. So far, there have been no reports of pollution or cargo damage and initial investigations have ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding.

All 25 crew – all Indian nationals, are safe and accounted for and remain onboard.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

https://gcaptain.com/ever-given-grounding-the-latest-from-the-ship-manager/

Bolded below. Did the canal pilots fuck up or did the Captain fuck up? Also, shipping is a weird world where apparently nationalities do not matter. Company is operated out of Taiwan for Japanese owners with and all Indian crew.

At the time of the incident, Ever Given was transiting northbound through the canal en route to Rotterdam, Netherlands with two canal pilots onboard.

BSM reports that Initial investigations still suggest the vessel grounded due to strong wind. So far, there have been no reports of pollution or cargo damage and initial investigations have ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding.

All 25 crew – all Indian nationals, are safe and accounted for and remain onboard.

I don't know how to say it in Hindi, but I'm imagining 24 Indian crew-members slumped over in the Mess Hall for the last week, telling themselves, "I have the worst fucking captains."  /georgebluthgif

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pearlandhorn

pearlandhorn 3269

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

https://gcaptain.com/ever-given-grounding-the-latest-from-the-ship-manager/

Bolded below. Did the canal pilots fuck up or did the Captain fuck up? Also, shipping is a weird world where apparently nationalities do not matter. Company is operated out of Taiwan for Japanese owners with and all Indian crew.

At the time of the incident, Ever Given was transiting northbound through the canal en route to Rotterdam, Netherlands with two canal pilots onboard.

BSM reports that Initial investigations still suggest the vessel grounded due to strong wind. So far, there have been no reports of pollution or cargo damage and initial investigations have ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding.

All 25 crew – all Indian nationals, are safe and accounted for and remain onboard.

Definitely not uncommon at all for international companies to have this kind of operation (crewed by Indian, Philippines, Africans) and owned by a company in a different country. 
 

Only in the US does a US flagged vessel HAVE to crewed by US crewmen. Only way for a vessel to be given a US flag (to my knowledge) is for the vessel to be built in the US. The Jones Act can be a bitch to deal with but it really keeps the shipping industry isolated in the US regarding the O&G trade. Most companies operating in the GoM in oil and gas can only use US flagged vessels. 

Some countries require certain nationalities of crew members if you operate in and out of their ports. If my company were to have a vessel in Trinidad working for BP or whoever, they would require us to have a certain number of Trinidad crew members. 

Edit:  Also, it's a hell of a lot cheaper for a company to utilize non-US crewmen.  US crew typically make 60-70% more in wages than their counterparts from other countries due to the market for US crew (Jones Act driven).  This allows companies to operate on lower day rates for their vessels in international ports.

Edited by pearlandhorn
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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Edit:  Also, it's a hell of a lot cheaper for a company to utilize non-US crewmen.  US crew typically make 60-70% more in wages than their counterparts from other countries due to the market for US crew (Jones Act driven).  This allows companies to operate on lower day rates for their vessels in international ports.

As with most things, using US resources has a higher cost. Our labor is "expensive" when compared to rest of world.

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pearlandhorn

pearlandhorn 3269

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

As with most things, using US resources has a higher cost. Our labor is "expensive" when compared to rest of world.

But with that, there really is a higher quality of crew in the US for captains and engineers, on average, than the rest of the world.  The whole "you get what you pay for" mantra.  However, with deck crew (outside of wheelhouse and engine room departments), the work ethic of a Filipino versus a US deckhand is laughable.  One Filipino can do the same work of 3 US deckhands and it's not even close.  US deckhands are undeniably lazy. 

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RPM

RPM 26320

Posted
Posted

The investigation will undeniably be bungled. It will come as no surprise that the data recorder mysteriously failed or was accidentally erased. I'd like to look at local weather for that day and see if there were any high winds. It's a plausible excuse, but would shift the blame if true.

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bolverk

bolverk 29671

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, RPM said:

The investigation will undeniably be bungled. It will come as no surprise that the data recorder mysteriously failed or was accidentally erased. I'd like to look at local weather for that day and see if there were any high winds. It's a plausible excuse, but would shift the blame if true.

I'm agnostic on this because I'm unqualified to determine jack shit on anything to do with ocean-going vessels, but as of this weekend a Reuters report carried by Al Arabia had this little blurb when I just googled wind + suez + canal.

Quote

 

Egypt’s Suez Canal Authority chief said Saturday that strong wind was not the main reason for the grounding of the MV Ever Given cargo ship in the waterway.

“Strong winds and weather factors were not the main reasons for the ship’s grounding, there may have been technical or human errors,” Osama Rabie said at a press conference in Suez.

“All of these factors will become apparent in the investigation,” he added.

 

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I thought this was going to at least take weeks to get it unstuck. Hats off for their ability to get it done.

Egyptian President Al-Sisi is already taking credit for the early 'dis-lodging' of the vessel that was crippling his economy.  The Canal Authority and Engineers basically brought him a complete plan---earth moving, tugboats, flotillas, engineering review of the ship to make ready for sea travel again, backup plans to salvage any toppled containers, tidal windows of which to take advantage, etc., etc., etc.  All they needed was his signature to remove some red tape, and free up some funds to pay premiums for expedited services and crews and equipment.  So basically he did the least amount of anybody involved in this, but will somehow take most of the credit.  

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Egyptian President Al-Sisi is already taking credit for the early 'dis-lodging' of the vessel that was crippling his economy.  The Canal Authority and Engineers basically brought him a complete plan---earth moving, tugboats, flotillas, engineering review of the ship to make ready for sea travel again, backup plans to salvage any toppled containers, tidal windows of which to take advantage, etc., etc., etc.  All they needed was his signature to remove some red tape, and free up some funds to pay premiums for expedited services and crews and equipment.  So basically he did the least amount of anybody involved in this, but will somehow take most of the credit.  

not sure what he did to engage the mashour but it was the Eqyptian dredge boat responsible for freezing the Ever Given

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Egyptian President Al-Sisi is already taking credit for the early 'dis-lodging' of the vessel that was crippling his economy.  The Canal Authority and Engineers basically brought him a complete plan---earth moving, tugboats, flotillas, engineering review of the ship to make ready for sea travel again, backup plans to salvage any toppled containers, tidal windows of which to take advantage, etc., etc., etc.  All they needed was his signature to remove some red tape, and free up some funds to pay premiums for expedited services and crews and equipment.  So basically he did the least amount of anybody involved in this, but will somehow take most of the credit.  

And this surprises you in what way ?  It is gov't after all.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3259

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, crash_davis said:

https://gcaptain.com/ever-given-grounding-the-latest-from-the-ship-manager/

Bolded below. Did the canal pilots fuck up or did the Captain fuck up? Also, shipping is a weird world where apparently nationalities do not matter. Company is operated out of Taiwan for Japanese owners with and all Indian crew.

At the time of the incident, Ever Given was transiting northbound through the canal en route to Rotterdam, Netherlands with two canal pilots onboard.

BSM reports that Initial investigations still suggest the vessel grounded due to strong wind. So far, there have been no reports of pollution or cargo damage and initial investigations have ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding.

All 25 crew – all Indian nationals, are safe and accounted for and remain onboard.

 

on the day it got stuck i heard there was a pretty good dust storm blowing through but i haven't seen anyone else confirm it since.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, gsoda3 said:

 

on the day it got stuck i heard there was a pretty good dust storm blowing through but i haven't seen anyone else confirm it since.

it's egypt. when isn't there a sand storm blowing through? even it there was a storm, prob not the first time a ship or 1000 has navigated the canal during a sand storm.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105127

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Egyptian President Al-Sisi is already taking credit for the early 'dis-lodging' of the vessel that was crippling his economy.  The Canal Authority and Engineers basically brought him a complete plan---earth moving, tugboats, flotillas, engineering review of the ship to make ready for sea travel again, backup plans to salvage any toppled containers, tidal windows of which to take advantage, etc., etc., etc.  All they needed was his signature to remove some red tape, and free up some funds to pay premiums for expedited services and crews and equipment.  So basically he did the least amount of anybody involved in this, but will somehow take most of the credit.  

Counterpoint: sometimes the best leadership is listening to your men and getting the fuck out of their way.  Some of the best work an officer will ever do can be listening to his sergeants develop and recommend a plan, and then say "sounds great -- go do that."

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El Diablo

El Diablo 4232

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, pearlandhorn said:

But with that, there really is a higher quality of crew in the US for captains and engineers, on average, than the rest of the world.  The whole "you get what you pay for" mantra.  However, with deck crew (outside of wheelhouse and engine room departments), the work ethic of a Filipino versus a US deckhand is laughable.  One Filipino can do the same work of 3 US deckhands and it's not even close.  US deckhands are undeniably lazy. 

That was not my experience 35 years ago but it you're talking union crewed vessels then that's a different animal. They can and do work 6 months out of a year and even the lowest paid room steward can bank $60K with room and board provided (obviously). 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Bevo said:

I assume the canal isn't wider because sand storms and shifting sands require constant dredging of the canal.

The south part of the Suez only has 1 lane. I'm surprised that at some point in the past 50 years they haven't created a second lane. I'm assuming there is already a throughput constraint that 1 lane creates.

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justhookit

justhookit 4191

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

https://gcaptain.com/ever-given-grounding-the-latest-from-the-ship-manager/

Bolded below. Did the canal pilots fuck up or did the Captain fuck up? Also, shipping is a weird world where apparently nationalities do not matter. Company is operated out of Taiwan for Japanese owners with and all Indian crew.

At the time of the incident, Ever Given was transiting northbound through the canal en route to Rotterdam, Netherlands with two canal pilots onboard.

BSM reports that Initial investigations still suggest the vessel grounded due to strong wind. So far, there have been no reports of pollution or cargo damage and initial investigations have ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding.

All 25 crew – all Indian nationals, are safe and accounted for and remain onboard.

So if it’s anything like the Panama Canal the canal pilots don’t do jack shit with regards to running the boat. They are there in an advisor role only. And you have to feed them a hot meal. (Don’t try to steal my fishing spots)

3F01BAA1-E65D-44AE-9781-16D1E7798F3E.jpeg

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, justhookit said:

So if it’s anything like the Panama Canal the canal pilots don’t do jack shit with regards to running the boat. They are there in an advisor role only. And you have to feed them a hot meal. (Don’t try to steal my fishing spots)

3F01BAA1-E65D-44AE-9781-16D1E7798F3E.jpeg

The canal is just a shorter ICW. Basically stay at much in the middle of the channel as possible and avoid other ships. Why would you need to have an advisor to tell you that?

 

In this case, there were two advisors who couldn't convince the captain to avoid running into the shoreline. "See that bank of sand going for miles in a straight line 50 meters off port, don't steer into it."

Oops, I done steered into it.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
Just now, crash_davis said:

The canal is just a shorter ICW. Basically stay at much in the middle of the channel as possible and avoid other ships. Why would you need to have an advisor to tell you that?

 

In this case, there were two advisors who couldn't convince the captain to avoid running into the shoreline. "See that bank of sand going for miles in a straight line 50 meters off port, don't steer into it."

Oops, I done steered into it.

wait....so every fucking ship that passes through the canal needs at least 1 "advisor"? That's a shitton of useless positions. Does the ship directly hire the advisor(s) for the passing or does the Suez canal authority pay their salaries and then it's passed onto the ships in crossing fees?

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

wait....so every fucking ship that passes through the canal needs at least 1 "advisor"? That's a shitton of useless positions. Does the ship directly hire the advisor(s) for the passing or does the Suez canal authority pay their salaries and then it's passed onto the ships in crossing fees?

You can bet that's an Egyptian rule as it passes thru their sovereign territory.

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justhookit

justhookit 4191

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don’t know how the Suez works but yes in Panama every vessel has to have a pilot. And at least one “rope tender” who does nothing but eat and drink my beer. It’s paid as part of your transit fee. And they have their own radio to communicate with the other boats and locks (no locks in the Suez). Their advisory role is pretty limited to telling you when it’s time to enter the lock and where to tie up in the lock. Other than that they can tell you a lot of cool history.

Edited by justhookit
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, justhookit said:

I don’t know how the Suez works but yes in Panama every vessel has to have a pilot. And at least one “rope tender” who does nothing but eat and drink my beer. It’s paid as part of your transit fee. And they have their own radio to communicate with the other boats and locks (no locks in the Suez). Their advisory role is pretty limited to telling you when it’s time to enter the lock and where to tie up in the lock. Other than that they can tell you a lot of cool history.

Same concept as harbor masters who do nothing but bring in boats/ships into their particular harbor. 

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pearlandhorn

pearlandhorn 3269

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

That was not my experience 35 years ago but it you're talking union crewed vessels then that's a different animal. They can and do work 6 months out of a year and even the lowest paid room steward can bank $60K with room and board provided (obviously). 

Agree with you.  Deckhands nowadays make around $60k in the US and typically work 28/14 shifts (on O&G PSVs).  35 years ago was a different animal.  With the new generation (millennials - I'm one of them too), laziness is pretty standard.  There are a few that bust their ass trying to move up to the wheelhouse but they're pretty rare. 

My company and industry specific vessels don't do union staffing.  I would imagine the productivity of workers drops off significantly more if they were unionized positions though.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

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Posted

no way this seems right. per this Egypt gov website, only 1500 ships passed through the Suez last year. That's only 4 every day. I call bullshit.

https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/Navigation/Pages/NavigationStatistics.aspx

this articles says revenue lost is $16M per day. so it costs $4m per vessel to cross the canal? the fuck?

https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/energy/suez-canal-blockage-has-cost-egypt-16m-a-day-refinitiv-says-1.1193475

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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21907

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

no way this seems right. per this Egypt gov website, only 1500 ships passed through the Suez last year. That's only 4 every day. I call bullshit.

https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/Navigation/Pages/NavigationStatistics.aspx

this articles says revenue lost is $16M per day. so it costs $4m per vessel to cross the canal? the fuck?

https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/energy/suez-canal-blockage-has-cost-egypt-16m-a-day-refinitiv-says-1.1193475

You're only looking at one month

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23111

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Agree with you.  Deckhands nowadays make around $60k in the US and typically work 28/14 shifts (on O&G PSVs).  35 years ago was a different animal.  With the new generation (millennials - I'm one of them too), laziness is pretty standard.  There are a few that bust their ass trying to move up to the wheelhouse but they're pretty rare. 

My company and industry specific vessels don't do union staffing.  I would imagine the productivity of workers drops off significantly more if they were unionized positions though.

 

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

no way this seems right. per this Egypt gov website, only 1500 ships passed through the Suez last year. That's only 4 every day. I call bullshit.

https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/Navigation/Pages/NavigationStatistics.aspx

this articles says revenue lost is $16M per day. so it costs $4m per vessel to cross the canal? the fuck?

https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/energy/suez-canal-blockage-has-cost-egypt-16m-a-day-refinitiv-says-1.1193475

nevermind, those are monthly numbers. 1500 per month. reading be hard.

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El Diablo

El Diablo 4232

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Agree with you.  Deckhands nowadays make around $60k in the US and typically work 28/14 shifts (on O&G PSVs).  35 years ago was a different animal.  With the new generation (millennials - I'm one of them too), laziness is pretty standard.  There are a few that bust their ass trying to move up to the wheelhouse but they're pretty rare. 

My company and industry specific vessels don't do union staffing.  I would imagine the productivity of workers drops off significantly more if they were unionized positions though.

Yeah, if you're talking work boats I can see that. Survey boats are, I would think, a little more motivated. Transport probably don't have much in the way of deck crew, just enough to keep it maintained and get her in and out of port. Not even sure on the maintenance there, probably a lot of that goes to contractors when in for long port stays. 

I was Military Sealift Command and we WORKED, lol. 

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pearlandhorn

pearlandhorn 3269

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Yeah, if you're talking work boats I can see that. Survey boats are, I would think, a little more motivated. Transport probably don't have much in the way of deck crew, just enough to keep it maintained and get her in and out of port. Not even sure on the maintenance there, probably a lot of that goes to contractors when in for long port stays. 

I was Military Sealift Command and we WORKED, lol. 

I could imagine.  For maintenance, we utilize a lot of 3rd party contractors for assistance (engine, welding, DP systems, etc.).  Some stuff we have our crews do but it's really just rope, soap, and dope stuff (cleaning, de-rusting, oil changes, etc.).

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