The 2018 Hunting Thread

[Humpy 112]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:48 AM, Spaulding Smails said:

When does the 2018 thread officially get put out to pasture?  I have one more quail hunt scheduled for next weekend, then hanging it up until spring turkey season.  

Are you still using a 2018 hunting permit for your quail hunt?

Edited February 1, 2019 by B1G

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

25 minutes ago, B1G said:

Are you still using a 2018 hunting permit for your quail hunt?

2018-2019 license.  Quail season runs through Feb 24.  

I get what you're saying.  Does the 2019 thread start when dove season kicks off?

[Llano Estacado 1257]

Anyone do any western state public land rifle? I’m getting the itch real bad, but can’t decide if I should try and enter some draws and/or OTC or use a guide.

Mulie, elk, antelope it doesn’t matter just looking for an experience. More of wide open, up and down ridges, spot and stalk type hunt. Start with out of state bird or whitetail hunt in 19-20 then branch out?

[BabaYaga 15290]

41 minutes ago, Llano Estacado said:

Anyone do any western state public land rifle? I’m getting the itch real bad, but can’t decide if I should try and enter some draws and/or OTC or use a guide.

Mulie, elk, antelope it doesn’t matter just looking for an experience. More of wide open, up and down ridges, spot and stalk type hunt. Start with out of state bird or whitetail hunt in 19-20 then branch out?

Enter the draw.  Do the research.  That's where the real experience comes  from.  Done it once (before wife got pregnant and grad school).  Have friends that's that all they do.  It's amazingly addictive.  Using google earth.  Researching times and locations.  Scouting.  Gear prep.  Man I love just helping out...wishing I was going.

And your fitness levels.  Man.  That's another level of suck right there if you start dealing with altitude.  I played sports my whole life.  Very active now (crossfit type stuff).  At the time I was even more active.  It's no joke.  It about kicked my butt.  Racing up the side of a mountain or ridge.  Spending all day in the mountains, at altitude.  Google the insane fitness regiments of guys like Can Haynes.  Dudley.  Those guys are machines.  You don't have to be that extreme.  But gear up.  Get some great boots.  And make sure you can operate high up.  Then report back!

[williemackgarza 1826]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/sports/cte-football-hairston-super-bowl.html#click=https://t.co/HpJHE6f1Bh

Man what a sad story.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Damn. Good on the son for having the wherewithal to keep his little sister away.

[williemackgarza 1826]

Ended the year in mexico last week with a few more mgmt deer taken
Cant wait for next year.
Hope we get lots of rain soon.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Dirt naps. Not sure how the first one went down so quickly. Buddy shot him in the ass. Spine went but he dropped upon impact.

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

Had a great weekend busting quail.  Pen raised, but they were damn good flyers.  

Got to the ranch Friday evening.  Temp was in the upper 20s.  Unloaded the truck and moved the cages into the shop so the birds didn't freeze.  Got settled in and went out to take a leak and get a beer.  My special needs son decided that he needed to check out the birds and he somehow opened one of the cages.  I heard screaming and wings flapping.  I half pissed my pants and ran back in with my fly down to find about a dozen quail flying around the shop and my son going ape shit.  At least the shop is enclosed.  About 20 minutes later, my dad, my other son and I got them all corralled and back into the cage.  All we could do was laugh.  Would have made a great submittal to America's Funniest Home Videos. 

Saturday morning, I got up early and took the birds out to a few old pastures with decent cover but enough open area to shoot.  I set out birds in coveys of 4-6.  Came back to the house, then we ate breakfast and went out for the hunt.  The temps stayed in the low 30s all day.  I had my wife (no pics) and oldest son with me.  First time hunting upland birds for my wife.  They did all the shooting and I worked the dog.  Murphy busted the first covey and came away with nothing.  We chased one bird off towards an oak mott and Murphy started circling.  His tail was wagging and he went right into the brush then came flying out and immediately started rubbing his face and neck on the ground.  Direct hit from a skunk.  Right between the eyes.  It was awful.  The only saving grace was that he was so damn close that the spray was concentrated to one spot.  We were relatively close to the house, so we went back up and cleaned him as best we could with peroxide, baking soda and dish soap.  After about 30 minutes of scrubbing, we got most of the stank out and went back for more birds.

We hit up three more coveys, and they came away with just a few birds but had fun.  I went back out in the afternoon with my old man and my son after lunch and we shot well.  My dad has bad hips, so he went back to the cabin after a few coveys while me and the boy worked the last few birds.  The old man can still shoot.  He had a few really nice long shots with his old 870.  My 11 year old son shot well towards the end.  He finally got the hang of the swing.  Most of all, I was proud of his gun safety and discipline.  Never made a bad shot and held off on a few shots that he could've taken but erred on the side of caution.  We had an absolute blast.  Murphy was a beast.  Flushing like a champ and didn't miss a single retrieve.  He was whooped that evening and slept all day yesterday.  We had some rain set in just as we finished cleaning birds.  Grilled some chicken and venison sausage on the pit and played a few rounds of 42 while drinking some brown liquor.  Pen raised birds or not, it was just a fine day.  

We ended up with 33 of 60 birds.  Hoping some of the other 27 survive.  Anyone have any input on that?  I've heard no more than 20% will survive.  We have decent cover out there and we try to keep predators at bay, so I'm optimistic.  We'll do it again a few times next year with pen raised birds, but I'd love to see some coveys hang on and become year round fixtures.  No action pics or videos, but a perfect February day.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

You need more than just cover for the birds to survive. Brooding habitat and all that. Plenty of articles out there on what it takes for quail to make it in Texas. Might be a few things you can do as far as managing the property to increase the odds.

[Brisketexan 105096]

Got the boy's buck mount back last week.  I brought mine (from a couple of years ago) back home from the office to show him the comparison.  The mass is pretty similar, but the spread....he beats mine rather soundly.

 

[williemackgarza 1826]

Nice brisket.
Memories of a lifetime.

[Gladeite 375]

Sorry, you will not have any of the pen raised birds survive.  They will not be savvy to the ways of the wild and predators, mostly hawks and a few fox/bobcat/coyote will kill them all in very short order.  We buy quail every year for our place and I have never seen one survive till spring.  We are high fenced but the hawks leave little piles of feathers all over the CRP in just a couple of days.

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

24 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

Sorry, you will not have any of the pen raised birds survive.  They will not be savvy to the ways of the wild and predators, mostly hawks and a few fox/bobcat/coyote will kill them all in very short order.  We buy quail every year for our place and I have never seen one survive till spring.  We are high fenced but the hawks leave little piles of feathers all over the CRP in just a couple of days.

Well, damn.  I read a while back that about 20% survive.  Guess that was optimistic at best.  Between that and the brooding habitat comment from @NotActuallyALonghorn, sounds like our odds are slim to none.  

We're going to continue working on habitat for quail and deer regardless.  Keeps our wildlife exemption intact and I enjoy doing it.  We installed a few cisterns.  Working on a food plot in the next two years and long range plans for a small stock tank.

[Gladeite 375]

Improvement to habitat is beneficial.  We emphasis CRP grass, make sure there is adequate water and have built some artificial shelters in the CRP.  We spread milo in the winter to help with their access to food.  What we have found that works best is rain at the correct times.  Rain at the right time so the native grasses grow tall and thick.  Rain at the right time so there are plenty of grasshoppers for the chicks to eat.  Rain at the right time so the grasses remain tall and thick.  Not too much rain at any of those times to decimate the population.  

So, in reality, we have spent a ton of money trying to improve our quail habitat with very little to show for it.  We buy 500-1000 birds per year, feed them all summer and fall, have them in a flight pen and have their water/food raised so they have to fly to eat/drink.  There are fox, bobcat, coyotes that roam around the exteriors of the pens so the birds get a lot of flight time.  The predators can't get in because we have 2 strands of 50 mile fence encircling the pen.  That fence will kill every rattlesnake and any juvenile predator.  It really pops.  We put the birds out in the CRP when the wild quail are not worth hunting, which seems to be more often than not.

[Brisketexan 105096]

1 hour ago, Gladeite said:

Sorry, you will not have any of the pen raised birds survive.  They will not be savvy to the ways of the wild and predators, mostly hawks and a few fox/bobcat/coyote will kill them all in very short order.  We buy quail every year for our place and I have never seen one survive till spring.  We are high fenced but the hawks leave little piles of feathers all over the CRP in just a couple of days.

Hawks are quail-getting machines.  30 years ago, hunting by myself on my uncle's place near Devine.  Walked a fenceline, kicked up a pair, dropped one....just on the other side of the fence.  It was about a 100 yard walk to the end of the fence and a gate, so I figured I'd walk the rest of the fence, then go through the gate and pick him up on the other side.  Right as I rounded the corner of the gate, a hawk swoops down, checks out my quail, picks him up, and takes off with him.  Fucker.

[HouTex 1866]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Hawks are quail-getting machines.  30 years ago, hunting by myself on my uncle's place near Devine.  Walked a fenceline, kicked up a pair, dropped one....just on the other side of the fence.  It was about a 100 yard walk to the end of the fence and a gate, so I figured I'd walk the rest of the fence, then go through the gate and pick him up on the other side.  Right as I rounded the corner of the gate, a hawk swoops down, checks out my quail, picks him up, and takes off with him.  Fucker.

I really like raptors and it's illegal as hell, but a lot of landowners with large spreads with little chance of getting caught will shoot hawks on site to try to help their quail population.  Maybe it's always been the case, but it seems like I'm seeing more hawks than ever.  I'll see several while I'm playing one round of golf.  

[Hugh G. Rection 156]

Quail are hawk candy.

[BabaYaga 15290]

On 2/12/2019 at 12:39 PM, HouTex said:

Maybe it's always been the case, but it seems like I'm seeing more hawks than ever.  I'll see several while I'm playing one round

Cant' speak for everywhere, but here in the 'burbs, with all our manicured lawns, we have hoards of rabbits.  Which bring in the hawks (and yotes and bobcats).  Seems like there is one on every other light post.  And I still see dozens upon dozens of rabbits to/from the neighborhood each day plus all the other critters that are better at hiding like the mice and rats.

Back when folks live in Odessa, summer months we'd be playing golf and only the greens were really kept in good condition, so there'd sometimes be dozens nibbling out there.  A long, high approach shot often had the added bonus of taking little thumper out and keeping your ball from rolling off the back of the green.

 

[cabowabo 4484]

Took out 4 pigs last night.  I ain't gonna lie, inflicting this kind of carnage on an animal, especially babies, is not as easy as it used to be.  I apologize for the foul language.

 

[Lat22 4010]

Never go Winchester against pigs. 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Oooh he’s a dead eye ain’t he!

Nice work.

[BabaYaga 15290]

Recently told to shoot the smaller ones.  Taking out the larger ones just removes a barrier to entry for the little ones.  Least that was a thought with the biologist at the place I was shooting at?  Seems logical?  Not sure any science behind it?  Anything other than consistent trapping doesn't do much anyway.

[cabowabo 4484]

I need to do a better job of leading the running ones. Body count will be higher next time.

[Jkwellborn 6697]

Recently told to shoot the smaller ones.  Taking out the larger ones just removes a barrier to entry for the little ones.  Least that was a thought with the biologist at the place I was shooting at?  Seems logical?  Not sure any science behind it?  Anything other than consistent trapping doesn't do much anyway.

I’ve heard that and it makes sense. I’m not sure it helps much since they breed so damn fast and start at around 6months.

I used to be an indiscriminate killer when I was hunting. Now, I hate to shoot deer. I’d much rather watch them. I hate to clean them too and that’s a big part of it.

Pigs on the other hand, they’re fucked if I get a chance. I don’t feel anything other than a little bit of recoil.

[cabowabo 4484]

20 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I’ve heard that and it makes sense. I’m not sure it helps much since they breed so damn fast and start at around 6months.

I used to be an indiscriminate killer when I was hunting. Now, I hate to shoot deer. I’d much rather watch them. I hate to clean them too and that’s a big part of it.

Pigs on the other hand, they’re fucked if I get a chance. I don’t feel anything other than a little bit of recoil.

C'mon now.  You have to admit, those piglets were mighty cute.....

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 hour ago, Jkwellborn said:

I’ve heard that and it makes sense. I’m not sure it helps much since they breed so damn fast and start at around 6months.

I used to be an indiscriminate killer when I was hunting. Now, I hate to shoot deer. I’d much rather watch them. I hate to clean them too and that’s a big part of it. 

Pigs on the other hand, they’re fucked if I get a chance. I don’t feel anything other than a little bit of recoil.

Yeah, unless you are actively and consistently trapping, you are just spinning your wheels.  They also learn from trapping so you have to keep moving them, etc.  Full time job.  Leave a few in there too long.  They start to bloat.....oh, boy....

These days, honestly, I love the cleaning/cooking part of big game much more.  If we are thinning does and can't possibly process all the meat (think 15-20+) and we've donated what we can and processed what we need, I go "gutless" and take both hams off and both back straps without even opening up the cavity.  I use a system like this, just with the body inverted (facing down).  Split the skin in the back, flay it open and go.  Takes a few minutes tops.  It's fast and clean.  

[Jkwellborn 6697]

We usually peel the hide but don’t gut them. I’ve just never really cared for it. Never minded shooting them until recently.

[fattyflattie 4639]

Well, this really belongs on the ‘13 hunting thread, but I boiled these out a few weeks ago.




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[fattyflattie 4639]

They came out better than I thought they would.





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[williemackgarza 1826]

Look nice fatty.
Wish I could do them like that.
When I try I cant get all the meat off and they look yellw

[Jkwellborn 6697]

Peroxide.

[BabaYaga 15290]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone had issues with deer making holes in low fences?  Gone round and round with our leasee who runs cattle (corriente) that it's deer, and not his stock that have recently started making holes in the fences.

Not saying it's one or the other, but this is news to me that deer will do this?  I know sometimes they get caught up in fences, especially the young ones.  

[Reagan1k 3024]

They''re just as likely to go under a fence rather than over it in my experiences watching them run a fence line. 

If they find a low spot or a loose wire, they'll use that area and eventually break a strand or pop it loose. 

Seen plenty of them dive under a low fence instead of hopping over it when running away from a truck. 

They bust them up if its a location where they cross frequently especially if there is a depression in the ground under the lowest wire.

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

They''re just as likely to go under a fence rather than over it in my experiences watching them run a fence line. 

If they find a low spot or a loose wire, they'll use that area and eventually break a strand or pop it loose. 

 Seen plenty of them dive under a low fence instead of hopping over it when running away from a truck. 

They bust them up if its a location where they cross frequently especially if there is a depression in the ground under the lowest wire.

Many thanks.  Always just seen them go over.  Didn't want to get accusatory, but it struck me as a little odd?

[Lat22 4010]

On 3/5/2019 at 8:23 AM, BabaYaga said:

Slightly off topic, but has anyone had issues with deer making holes in low fences?  Gone round and round with our leasee who runs cattle (corriente) that it's deer, and not his stock that have recently started making holes in the fences.

Not saying it's one or the other, but this is news to me that deer will do this?  I know sometimes they get caught up in fences, especially the young ones.  

Are you in south Texas per chance?  We get tons of fence damage and it ain't the deer doing it.

[BabaYaga 15290]

12 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Are you in south Texas per chance?  We get tons of fence damage and it ain't the deer doing it.

Central/West.  Runnels/Coleman County.  

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

On 1/20/2019 at 1:52 PM, Errestaurants said:

Hell he shot an elephant with his .270 featherweight model 70! The rifleman. 

 

On 1/20/2019 at 11:58 AM, Jkwellborn said:

Was there anything he didn’t kill with his .270?

 

On 1/20/2019 at 2:20 PM, ImissWallyPryor said:

I know he said he shot something like 100 elk with his .270.  Jack O'Connor is why in the mid-80s I bought my Remington 700 ADL chambered in .270. I might've paid a premium for a pre-1964 Winchester Model 70, but money was tight in those days, and the reviews on the post-1963 Model 70s seemed mixed at best. Later, I find out that even O'Connor himself thought some features of the newer model were better, some worse.  Reviews were a lot harder to come by in 1986 (FYI to the young pups lol).  Besides, the Remington 700 ADL was on sale, and I liked the wood grain on the one the store brought out.  I could have had a BDL with a detachable box magazine rather than a fixed magazine for $30-40 more, but like I said, money was tight.  I have no regrets.

In my teens I killed a couple of elk with my .270.  One at 400-ish yards.   It's easily the favorite rifle in my family's collection.  Years ago my dad dropped it out of a blind and broke the stock.  He replaced it with a solid oak stock that is pretty hefty but steady AF if you have a rest.

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 hour ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

On 1/20/2019 at 2:20 PM, ImissWallyPryor said:

I know he said he shot something like 100 elk with his .270.  Jack O'Connor is why in the mid-80s I bought my Remington 700 ADL chambered in .270. I might've paid a premium for a pre-1964 Winchester Model 70, but money was tight in those days, and the reviews on the post-1963 Model 70s seemed mixed at best. Later, I find out that even O'Connor himself thought some features of the newer model were better, some worse.  Reviews were a lot harder to come by in 1986 (FYI to the young pups lol).  Besides, the Remington 700 ADL was on sale, and I liked the wood grain on the one the store brought out.  I could have had a BDL with a detachable box magazine rather than a fixed magazine for $30-40 more, but like I said, money was tight.  I have no regrets.

In my teens I killed a couple of elk with my .270.  One at 400-ish yards.   It's easily the favorite rifle in my family's collection.  Years ago my dad dropped it out of a blind and broke the stock.  He replaced it with a solid oak stock that is pretty hefty but steady AF if you have a rest.

Still hunt to this day with my g-fathers pre-64 Win Model 70 in .270.  He also had a pre-64 Model 70 in .257 Roberts (shorter, heavier barrel) that got away from me.

The old girl still groups around 1-1.5 inches @ 100yds with 130gr Winchester Super-X.  I have old pics of him packing it in via mules hunting blacktails near the Davis mountains.  

Funny how the .270 was a 'wildcat' back in the day.  Still arguably the best all around cartridge you can buy for those of us not hunting large bear and moose in the south.  Everything else it's perfect for.  Flies flat and hits hard.  

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Funny how the .270 was a 'wildcat' back in the day.  Still arguably the best all around cartridge you can buy for those of us not hunting large bear and moose in the south.  Everything else it's perfect for.  Flies flat and hits hard.  

2

Yup.  Love it!

[BabaYaga 15290]

5 minutes ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

Yup.  Love it!

Funny how little rifle technology has changed over the years (optics a different conversation).  Composite stocks. Chassis stocks.  Adjustable triggers.  Carbon-fiber, lapped barrels maybe.  But really, not much there.  Lock.  Stock.  And barrel.  

That leaves the caliber.  Seems every few years there are new players.  The WSM lines were hot for a while.  Weatherby obviously has been around a while.  Nosler.  Lapua.  Wilde.  And now the ubiquitous 6 & 6.5mm Creedmoor.  And yet they are all compared to these older, legacy calibers that continue to perform flawlessly year after year.  Combine these legacy calibers with new cartridge technology, and they may be around forever!

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

19 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Funny how little rifle technology has changed over the years (optics a different conversation).  Composite stocks. Chassis stocks.  Adjustable triggers.  Carbon-fiber, lapped barrels maybe.  But really, not much there.  Lock.  Stock.  And barrel.  

That leaves the caliber.  Seems every few years there are new players.  The WSM lines were hot for a while.  Weatherby obviously has been around a while.  Nosler.  Lapua.  Wilde.  And now the ubiquitous 6 & 6.5mm Creedmoor.  And yet they are all compared to these older, legacy calibers that continue to perform flawlessly year after year.  Combine these legacy calibers with new cartridge technology, and they may be around forever!

Trial and error can be as effective as "build it with science". 
My dad used to hunt in Alaska a bit when I was a kid (never took me)  He bought a 7mm magnum for those hunts.  I never liked that gun.   My first rifle was his .243.  It was a pretty good rifle.  We have a newer (to us) 30-06 that I haven't had a chance to use.  My dad is too old to hunt much anymore and I'm married to someone that doesn't value land ownership or hunting leases.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

47 minutes ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

My dad used to hunt in Alaska a bit when I was a kid (never took me)

 

Quote

 I'm married to someone that doesn't value land ownership or hunting leases.  

 

*kidding.  I get it.  My wife is luke warm to agnostic about hunting and generally stays away from the ranch except to fish sometimes.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

22 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Central/West.  Runnels/Coleman County.  

I was goin to ask the same thing. Nilgai get under fences like crazy. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

21 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Funny how little rifle technology has changed over the years (optics a different conversation).  Composite stocks. Chassis stocks.  Adjustable triggers.  Carbon-fiber, lapped barrels maybe.  But really, not much there.  Lock.  Stock.  And barrel.  

That leaves the caliber.  Seems every few years there are new players.  The WSM lines were hot for a while.  Weatherby obviously has been around a while.  Nosler.  Lapua.  Wilde.  And now the ubiquitous 6 & 6.5mm Creedmoor.  And yet they are all compared to these older, legacy calibers that continue to perform flawlessly year after year.  Combine these legacy calibers with new cartridge technology, and they may be around forever!

Bullets and powders have advanced quite a bit as well. Leading to a lot of the advances the newer cartridges are capable of.   That said, Mr. Weatherby holds a special place in my shooting heart. 

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I was goin to ask the same thing. Nilgai get under fences like crazy. 

Wish I had a 'Blue Bull' problem.  Good eating right there.  We did had a few Blackbucks that found us years back.  They are crawlers also.  Skittish little fella's.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Bullets and powders have advanced quite a bit as well. Leading to a lot of the advances the newer cartridges are capable of.   That said, Mr. Weatherby holds a special place in my shooting heart. 

Winchester:  'you want flat and fast, check this new round out'

Weatherby:  'hold my beer'

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

 

 

*kidding.  I get it.  My wife is luke warm to agnostic about hunting and generally stays away from the ranch except to fish sometimes.  

I have no problem with the fact that I'm being a baby about it.  Dad now lives on 200 acres that borders the King Ranch but there just isn't much there and what is there his wife has named.   compared to some of the places I grew up hunting (17,000 acres in Mexico, Callaghan ranch,  some of Briscoe's stuff) it doesn't get my interest up....and there are  zero quail.  Maybe someday.

[BabaYaga 15290]

4 minutes ago, Teamdirtyleg said:

I have no problem with the fact that I'm being a baby about it.  Dad now lives on 200 acres that borders the King Ranch but there just isn't much there and what is there his wife has named.   compared to some of the places I grew up hunting (17,000 acres in Mexico, Callaghan ranch,  some of Briscoe's stuff) it doesn't get my interest up....and there are  zero quail.  Maybe someday.

Haha, not a baby.  More 'sad face' for not getting to go.  Should have chosen a different pic. 

Our place was fractured as g-parents kids took ownership of pieces.  Went from 2,500+ acres down to 700+/-.  We had quail for a while, but they are just so fragile and prone to a littany of external pressures, from environment, ants, birds, roadrunners eating their eggs, even this 'eyeworm' mess that is so creepy

Eyeworms & Quail

[Teamdirtyleg 1060]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Haha, not a baby.  More 'sad face' for not getting to go.  Should have chosen a different pic. 

Our place was fractured as g-parents kids took ownership of pieces.  Went from 2,500+ acres down to 700+/-.  We had quail for a while, but they are just so fragile and prone to a littany of external pressures, from environment, ants, birds, roadrunners eating their eggs, even this 'eyeworm' mess that is so creepy

Eyeworms & Quail

Hadn't heard of the eyeworm issue.   Dad dragged me to a quail management seminar when I was a kid.  It was really interesting.  They have their needs of which we can provide a few like edge habitat, cover, open forage, seed grasses, but the most important thing is rain.  But not too much rain and it needs to happen at the right time of the year..