Just how bad are things in America? Not great!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 

We have military personnel in over 100 different countries. 
 

We incarcerate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, over 21% of all people in prison are in the United States. 

 

We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close. 
 

The cost of healthcare per person is the highest in the world and has been for as long as I can remember. 
 

32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.

 

The United States currently has more than $1.31 trillion in student loan debt, easily #1 in the world. 

 

We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 
 

No country in the world has more gun violence suicides or guns per person.

We consume more oil than any other nation. 
 

We lead the world in number of billionaires while consistently coming in the top 10 when it comes to any wealth inequality metric. 
 

Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

Our GDP ranks #1 in the world because our business is death and we are really good at it. 
 

I know many of us live in reasonable comfort making it easy to ignore much of this but the America we are living in is going through some things and it will not get better without better people in high places willing to tackle these issues head on.  Winning elections doesn’t fix anything. 
 

/rant

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz
Incarcerated incarnate fuck I’m an idiot. “Combat troops” replaced with “military personnel”

[RDCanecutter 26,276]

 

[Incredulity 11,555]

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

Shelby Steele

[Js1 85,110]

Meh the GOP loves this 

[Foosters 17,733]

23 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

The official slogan of American conservatives is "Make America Great Again."

I would agree with conservatives that America is not great. We just disagree on how to change that.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Foosters

[Biff Tannen 45,495]

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

Shelby Steele

I don’t know. Actively trying to stop people from voting seems pretty anti-American to me. 

[Orale 1,087]

I'm damn tired of all the incarnation going on!

[RomaVicta 29,793]

30 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

Shelby Steele

Without an illusory liberal to loathe, the American "conservative" doesn't know who he is. Thus the cult right's unrelenting flow of bile wrapped in pro-American bunk.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,546]

If a family member you love is sick with rash of maladies, don't acknowledge it, and accuse other kin who do of being against the sick family member, unless other motives need to be fulfilled, then promise only your remedies can bring the previously "not sick" family member back to good health.

Conservatism in a nutshell.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[Henry Hill 3,156]

[gmr548 16,513]

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 
Shelby Steele

lol

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

Quote

The right-wing belief that "freedom" depends on others having to die for pointless reasons now manifests in all sorts of ways. It can be seen in the resistance to even the most reasonable efforts to fight climate change because heaven forbid you have to get a slightly different kind of light bulb so that your grandchildren can enjoy living on a planet that isn't beset by biblical levels of natural disasters. Or the temper tantrum over Obamacare, which was largely fueled by a willingness to let other people die rather than run even the smallest risk that your doctor's appointment might have to be scheduled a week later. And lately, it has manifested in the right-wing whining over wearing masks in grocery stores or being asked to vaccinate, because the idea that others must die to spare them the slightest inconvenience is a bedrock belief of modern conservatism.

 

Amanda Marcotte

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

44 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Without an illusory liberal to loathe, the American "conservative" doesn't know who he is.

I am stealing this

[hpslugga 4,044]

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don’t know. Actively trying to stop people from voting seems pretty anti-American to me. 

You know what’s also anti-American? Pretending that its government and/or society have no shortcomings when they clearly do.

Confusing dissent for disloyalty is about as dishonest as it gets. That shit is just straight up lying. 

[TwiceHorn 31,282]

5 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Confusing dissent for disloyalty is about as dishonest as it gets. That shit is just straight up lying. 

That's good shit, too.  Except I might quibble with the word "confusing," is it is very intentional, as the remainder notes.  Maybe "conflating" is the right word.  Or misrepresenting.

[SaucyJack 3,487]

1 hour ago, Orale said:

I'm damn tired of all the incarnation going on!

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 

We have combat troops deployed in over 100 different countries. 
 

We incarnate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, over 21% of all people in prison are in the United States. 

 

We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close. 
 

The cost of healthcare per person is the highest in the world and has been for as long as I can remember. 
 

32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.

 

The United States currently has more than $1.31 trillion in student loan debt, easily #1 in the world. 

 

We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 
 

No country in the world has more gun violence suicides or guns per person.

We consume more oil than any other nation. 
 

We lead the world in number of billionaires while consistently coming in the top 10 when it comes to any wealth inequality metric. 
 

Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

Our GDP ranks #1 in the world because our business is death and we are really good at it. 
 

I know many of us live in reasonable comfort making it easy to ignore much of this but the America we are living in is going through some things and it will not get better without better people in high places willing to tackle these issues head on.  Winning elections doesn’t fix anything. 
 

/rant

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

[StruggleBus 3,922]

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally retarded not to make a decent living.

[Surly Bevo 24,696]

Could have just played this clip and used less words

 

[henrygandorf 29,177]

fewer.

sigh.

[SubliminalHorn 6,674]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

That doesn’t change anything that he listed. Don’t you want to make America great again

[UpperWestside 6,136]

10 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally retarded not to make a decent living.

I am only making a request, but please don’t use that word. I have a friend whose nephew is autistic (And an amazing young man) and she has heard him called that word and it really sets her off. It’s a very hurtful word to use and needs to become a relic in our vocabulary. Again I am only asking. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

49 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

That doesn’t change anything that he listed. Don’t you want to make America great again

There is a lot of truth in many of they things he listed. No denying that.  We're the modern Roman empire.  We still anchor the world, and keep lots of bad actors from taking center stage.  Many of the things he lists are the product of steady, uninterrupted progress, and social stability for decade after decade after decade.

We could probably cut back on our military spending, and should.

Our medical costs suck, and we're still the cutting edge medical center of the world as a result.

Spending too much per student on education with dwindling  results, true in many places, not so much so in others..

Student debt ?  If you're too fucking stupid to understand that $100k in student loans isn't gonna be paid off in your chosen major of some fill in the blank  studies degree that doesn't pay a living wage, that's on you, and your mother and father.

There are counters to many of his assertions.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[UpperWestside 6,136]

7 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

That doesn’t change anything that he listed. Don’t you want to make America great again

We have a lot of work to do as a society. Hugo’s list can be a hard one to read, but it can also be looked at as a reminder of some of the litany of things we need to change about America. I take his list as something good to have read. It is motivation to keep pushing for a better society like the one Martin Luther King Jr. and  John Lewis pushed for his entire life. It would be nice if some death cult members would walk away and join n on the transformation, but that is their choice to make.

[Satchel 6,908]

39 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

You know what’s also anti-American? Pretending that its government and/or society have no shortcomings when they clearly do.

Confusing dissent for disloyalty is about as dishonest as it gets. That shit is just straight up lying. 

Do you remember how dissenters against the US invasion of Iraq were treated? Can you imagine what it was like being Barbara Lee as the one dissenter in the House?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

51 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

Amanda Marcotte

“The grim reality is that the entire nation is in the thrall to a minority of extremely insecure mostly white men who, drunk on decades of NRA-fueled propaganda, have decided that having the ability to commit mass murder at a moment's notice is a crucial component of maintaining their manhood against the ever-encroaching threats from de-gendered Potato Heads and lady video game players. Most of these men claim exoneration because they don't personally grab one of their many overpriced killing machines to lay waste to a grocery store or high school. Grotesquely, some even use these mass shootings to indulge in public fantasies about how they would totally stop an active shooter, though somehow they never seem to actually get around to doing it. But ultimately, they've become complacent in the face of mass murder from decades of being told by right-wing media that there's a binary choice between preventing murder and watching Michelle Obama personally run off with their testicles in her handbag. Worse, the right has cultivated an overall suspicion of the very concept of concern for the lives of others at all.”
 

Does that chick know slorch?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

14 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally retarded not to make a decent living.

Thank you for reminding me of another problem in America.  Many jobs that improve society and require people giving a fuck, often do not pay well.  The majority of artists, teachers, scholars, journalists, public defenders, civil rights activists, writers, and public servants do not make a good living in this country.  Instead, our society tends to reward the most sociopathic behavior at the expense of integrity. 
 

“Be careful what kind of leaders you’re producing here.”

[Hanrahan 1,306]

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 
We have combat troops deployed in over 100 different countries. 
 
We incarcerate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, over 21% of all people in prison are in the United States. 
 
We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close. 
 
The cost of healthcare per person is the highest in the world and has been for as long as I can remember. 
 
32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.
 
The United States currently has more than $1.31 trillion in student loan debt, easily #1 in the world. 
 
We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 
 
No country in the world has more gun violence suicides or guns per person.

We consume more oil than any other nation. 
 
We lead the world in number of billionaires while consistently coming in the top 10 when it comes to any wealth inequality metric. 
 
Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

Our GDP ranks #1 in the world because our business is death and we are really good at it. 
 
I know many of us live in reasonable comfort making it easy to ignore much of this but the America we are living in is going through some things and it will not get better without better people in high places willing to tackle these issues head on.  Winning elections doesn’t fix anything. 
 
/rant

Cool manifesto.

[BradInATX 9,208]

There is a lot of truth in many of they things he listed. No denying that.  We're the modern Roman empire.  We still anchor the work, and keep lots of bad actors from taking center stage.  

Well, some of us do.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

“I love America more than any other country in the world and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”

-James Baldwin 

[wildcat09 29,256]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

Naw, we’d prefer to give them yours.

[ndawg 1,242]

58 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Student debt ?  If you're too fucking stupid to understand that $100k in student loans isn't gonna be paid off in your chosen major of some fill in the blank  studies degree that doesn't pay a living wage, that's on you, and your mother and father.

There are counters to many of his assertions.

So, higher education costs are skyrocketing, putting it out of reach for more and more Americans every year.

Think about front line nurses and occupational and physical therapists. Many of them take out $100-200k in student loan debt just to earn the privilege of taking care of the sick and injured. Do you want fewer people making the inarguably dumb financial decision that leads them to a career spent helping people in need?

For America to improve, we have got to get out from underneath overly simplistic perspectives.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 

We have combat troops deployed in over 100 different countries. 
 

 

Mr Pedantic strikes: Eckshually we have active combat troops in only three countries: Afghanistan, Syria, and the Iraq. And likely others that are classified, but not anywhere near 97 more countries. 

Our military has a presence in more than 150 countries, but that includes peacekeeping missions, military attaches, and embassy / consular guards, and the list includes countries like Canada, Australia, and most nations in the EU. (For some reason we have about 700 Marines stationed in Norway; that's more than everywhere else except for Kuwait, Australia, and Japan, aside from the aforementioned war zones.) It is not like we are trying to physically occupy half the world's nations; most of those deployed are not combat units. 

But yeah, the rest of the list...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Noted

[David Dennison 18,658]

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

Shelby Steele

What explains conservatism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism?

Probably liberals. They're scary.

[atomheartbevo 89,447]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

Meh the GOP loves this 

Not a bug, it's a feature!

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,668]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 

We have combat troops deployed in over 100 different countries. 
 

We incarcerate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, over 21% of all people in prison are in the United States. 

 

We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close. 
 

The cost of healthcare per person is the highest in the world and has been for as long as I can remember. 
 

32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.

 

The United States currently has more than $1.31 trillion in student loan debt, easily #1 in the world. 

 

We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 
 

No country in the world has more gun violence suicides or guns per person.

We consume more oil than any other nation. 
 

We lead the world in number of billionaires while consistently coming in the top 10 when it comes to any wealth inequality metric. 
 

Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

Our GDP ranks #1 in the world because our business is death and we are really good at it. 
 

I know many of us live in reasonable comfort making it easy to ignore much of this but the America we are living in is going through some things and it will not get better without better people in high places willing to tackle these issues head on.  Winning elections doesn’t fix anything. 
 

/rant

The four bolded have good sides to them too. i address in order.

1) large defense budget because it's basically a jobs program.  we get to be cutting edge everything because we encourage a bazillion people to be engineers.  some of them pan out and invent the microchip.  some have to work on Mark 12.1 of some missile system raytheon has remade every year for the past 25. it used to be nasa.  now it's stealth fighters.

2) i sometimes view our exorbitant healthcare costs as a sort of favor to the world.  people have to be incentivized to come up with the newest and best drug. to the extent that $ goes to docs and researchers and whatnot, that cost has to be borne by someone.  turns out those someone's are us.  the general bloat is bad of course, but half of all new drug patents are from US companies, and those that aren't still try to get patent protection here because access to the US market is important for their innovation.  it would be nice to share this cost globally, but we haven't figured out how to do that yet.  it's certainly the topic of trade deals all the time so someone is trying.

3) oil consumption is a byproduct of an ever moving economy.

4) see no. 3. a lot of people aren't starving that otherwise would. a lot of people are comfortable that otherwise wouldn't be.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Without an ugly America to loathe, there is no automatic esteem to receive. Thus liberalism's unrelenting current of anti-Americanism.
 

Shelby Steele

That must be why the liberals ransacked the Capitol.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

4 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

large defense budget because it's basically a jobs program.  we get to be cutting edge everything because we encourage a bazillion people to be engineers.

Imagine what we could do with an education budget the size of the defense budget.  We’d probably have cured cancer or something even cooler than the death machines.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Imagine what we could do with an education budget the size of the defense budget.  We’d probably have cured cancer or something even cooler than the death machines.

Not necessarily.  I am all for paying teachers more, but even the best teachers in the world couldn't help a lot of American students.  

Education starts in the home.  Without a nurturing environment, some kids have ZERO shot.  

That ultimately becomes the question.  How do you change the home status.  And I know some of you will talk about the vicious cycle of poverty, and yeah, some of that is it.  But the truth is, there are a lot of fucking people that should not procreate that do.  See the Asshole Magat NYC woman with 4 kids in that other thread.  I am sure she is giving her kids a really good foundation.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Programs that help educate parents on how to provide a nurturing learning environment for their children could also be part of a massive education budget. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

America has more millionaires (almost 5x as 2nd place China) and the most self-made billionaires in the world.

America has over 20 self-made WOMEN billionaires. Over 100 worth $150mm+.

If you are interested in the most optimal place for an opportunity to go from rags to mega-riches, there is no better place, no matter your gender or race. This sort of uncapped potential and lack of a ceiling is amazing in it's meritocracy.

You want to sacrifice that and put a cap on things and a glass ceiling for folks so more people can eke out a middle class existence? I'm sure there are other places where mediocrity is a value.

Not to sound Gen Z here but, Why do Millennials think being/striving for middle class is a personality trait?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Self made billionaire is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. 

[Guest Lobo]

I must have forgotten about all that government and family help Oprah got on her way up the ladder.  

[hpslugga 4,044]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's good shit, too.  Except I might quibble with the word "confusing," is it is very intentional, as the remainder notes.  Maybe "conflating" is the right word.  Or misrepresenting.

I’ll go with conflating. That’s definitely more accurate 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Self made billionaire is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. 

I understand your point here and I don’t actually disagree with you (or with Obama when he made it), but in this instance I’m using it as it’s generally understood, not literal. Which is to say, someone whose beginnings were not special or otherwise more uniquely privileged to go from a poor, middle or upper middle class background to being a billionaire.

If you are one of those people who think the pursuit of money is bad and then actually obtaining a ton of it means you are evil, then this uniquely American and seemingly magical opportunity to go from absolutely nothing to super rich is probably not going to impress you. But the fact this opportunity exists opens up a lot of lanes for innovation and inspires people to stretch and create.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

13 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We incarcerate incarnate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, ..... /rant

Edited 9 hours ago by Hugo Stiglitz
Incarcerated incarnate fuck I’m an idiot.

See Hugo, I changed it back for you. You're on to something. If we reincarnate more citizens then our percentage of the global population will increase. The rest is just details.

 

@PenelopeWitherspoon's point about the home is relevant, but it requires a shift in attitude from some of our leaders as well as the populace itself. IMO, it also requires a gutting of corporate corruption. Corporate corruption seems like an unlikely companion to a low quality of home life, but it has a direct effect in ways that are intertwined with the way products and services are available, marketed, and sold to the poor and working classes. The day care that is or isn't available, and the quality of that care, and so on. From school lunch programs to influencing the way roads and highways and developments are built and where, it is a spider web that is fragile in appearance but strong in its resilience.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,495]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Corporate corruption seems like an unlikely companion to a low quality of home life, but it has a direct effect in ways that are intertwined with the way products and services are available, marketed, and sold to the poor and working classes.

Big Ag being one of the biggest perpetrators.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Big Ag being one of the biggest perpetrators.

The programs developed over the years have ebbed and flowed in support, but examining just one area in which Ag grew to Big Ag might point specifically to the Reagan era of privatizing some of the programs. However, I cannot state that factually since I've not looked at it to see if that is backed up factually.

[Nivek 16,859]

12 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally retarded not to make a decent living.

Another myth.