Just how bad are things in America? Not great!

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

21 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I remember your stance from the hornfans days.  

I also remember being on the other side of that view and was very firm in my conviction that you were wrong.  And then you proceeded to absolutely destroy every point I had/made and how much that pissed me off.  But then, I started following up on links you sent and slowly realized I just might not be as informed as I thought. 

In hindsight, that pwnage by you, and a few others, is probably what kept me from continuing down the path to maga land.

So, a very delayed thank you.

This post reminded me of my experiences with Olaf Olafsen (sp?) on the old 360 board.

does anyone remember him?

[Goredho 17349]

On 3/24/2021 at 10:55 PM, DonkeyCigars said:

America has more millionaires (almost 5x as 2nd place China) and the most self-made billionaires in the world.

America has over 20 self-made WOMEN billionaires. Over 100 worth $150mm+.

If you are interested in the most optimal place for an opportunity to go from rags to mega-riches, there is no better place, no matter your gender or race. This sort of uncapped potential and lack of a ceiling is amazing in it's meritocracy.

You want to sacrifice that and put a cap on things and a glass ceiling for folks so more people can eke out a middle class existence? I'm sure there are other places where mediocrity is a value.

Not to sound Gen Z here but, Why do Millennials think being/striving for middle class is a personality trait?

There are 328 million people in the US and you are using the net worth of 0.0003% of them as a metric for societal health?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah..... no, no they won't they'll just kick the can down the street, and use division politics to make it an us vs them thing as they always do, always have done.

Who is ‘they’?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Who is ‘they’?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've opted to leave the country for  better circumstances so your opinion here  really means nothing.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[BrickHorn 18194]

21 minutes ago, Goredho said:

There are 328 million people in the US and you are using the net worth of 0.0003% of them as a metric for societal health?

America: a few of you miserable cretins might win the lottery!

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've opted to leave the country for  better circumstances so your opinion here  really means nothing.

 

 

I’ve left the country multiple times, for various reasons. I enjoy living in and experiencing other cultures, and I want that experience for my children.

So explain to me why I don’t have a voice.

[Goredho 17349]

4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

America: a few of you miserable cretins might win the lottery!

And by lottery, you mean The Hunger Games, right?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I’ve left the country multiple times, for various reasons. I enjoy living in and experiencing other cultures, and I want that experience for my children.

So explain to me why I don’t have a voice.

 You said yourself in a post earlier on that the country isn't what it is it's a toxic environment you don't like it here so you've moved a Places is better for you so have fun there you're an outlier 

 

 There are most definitely things wrong with this country and I've said that on several occasions the problem is depending on your party you blame the other party you say it's always their fault it's always the other parties fault and that's just bullshit 

 

Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

 

I think there's a lot more common ground politically on this board that is allowed by anonymous posting of us versus them you versus Me me versus you

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

10 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I’ve left the country multiple times, for various reasons. I enjoy living in and experiencing other cultures, and I want that experience for my children.

So explain to me why I don’t have a voice.

Trust me, if a realtor from Texas can charter a plane, storm the Capitol, and keep blathering away on twitter, you have a voice. There has to be balance in the universe or we're going to crash into the sun.

[David Dennison 18661]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 You said yourself in a post earlier on that the country isn't what it is it's a toxic environment you don't like it here so you've moved a Places is better for you so have fun there you're an outlier 

 

 There are most definitely things wrong with this country and I've said that on several occasions the problem is depending on your party you blame the other party you say it's always their fault it's always the other parties fault and that's just bullshit 

 

Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

 

I think there's a lot more common ground politically on this board that is allowed by anonymous posting of us versus them you versus Me me versus you

 

This is not true.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Just now, David Dennison said:

This is not true.

The Biden administration is still turning away immigrants under Title 42, mostly due to the pandemic, but they are definitely not implementing the policy the same way, especially as it relates to minors. That is a good thing.

[YChang 3431]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

I think there's a lot more common ground politically on this board that is allowed by anonymous posting of us versus them you versus Me me versus you

 

Why do you think/feel you need to stretch the truth here? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is not true.

You are one of the worst here, every poster who disagrees with you is a racist. Your opinion of most things is so jaundiced by that absolutely incorrect accusation, it's not worth discussing anything with you.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, YChang said:

Why do you think/feel you need to stretch the truth here? 

How am I stretching the truth ?

[David Dennison 18661]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

You are one of the worst here, every poster who disagrees with you is a racist. Your opinion of most things is so jaundiced by that absolutely incorrect accusation, it's not worth discussing anything with you.

Racism and white supremacy are at the root of most of America's social, political, and economic problems. If that means you feel like every poster who disagrees with me is a racist, so be it. I certainly don't think that.

[David Dennison 18661]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How am I stretching the truth ?

You said Democrats are doing exactly the same thing at the border as the Trump administration.

That is not true.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You said Democrats are doing exactly the same thing at the border as the Trump administration.

That is not true.

Are they doing every single thing the Trump admin. did ?  probablyy not.  Are they housing  people in conditions they were railing against the entire 4 years of the trump admin. yes they are (SEE:  AOC's white suit, fence line, crying jag).  You split hairs over the small details but fail to acknowledge the general issue, typical. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Racism and white supremacy are at the root of most of America's social, political, and economic problems. If that means you feel like every poster who disagrees with me is a racist, so be it. I certainly don't think that.

Your posts speak otherwise your go to response for anyone who disagrees with you is you're a racist.  That has been your posting history here.

[David Dennison 18661]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Your posts speak otherwise your go to response for anyone who disagrees with you is you're a racist.  That has been your posting history here.

This is just lazy.

[Neonmoon 38127]

The people with all the resources don’t want to share the resources because they believe they created them all by themselves, but their biggest accomplishment was convincing the 90% without resources this was true. How? They own the media (message) and politicians (laws). And any pushback results in cries of system collapse (socialism), death (anarchy), absurdity 

How were they helped? 

Taxpayer funded protection (military, police, judicial system), transportation system (roads, FAA, rail), education system (K-12), 
 

 

[David Dennison 18661]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are they doing every single thing the Trump admin. did ?  probablyy not.  Are they housing  people in conditions they were railing against the entire 4 years of the trump admin. yes they are (SEE:  AOC's white suit, fence line, crying jag).  You split hairs over the small details but fail to acknowledge the general issue, typical. 

 

32 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

And we're the ones splitting hairs.

Good grief.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 You said yourself in a post earlier on that the country isn't what it is it's a toxic environment you don't like it here so you've moved a Places is better for you so have fun there you're an outlier 

no what i said was the country felt toxic to me and that after leaving, that belief was re-affirmed. there were a ton of reasons we decided to give living abroad a try. we weighed countless factors and decided it made sense for us as a family. 

but whether you like it or not, please rest assured i'll continue to have a seat at the table.

[YChang 3431]

 

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are they doing every single thing the Trump admin. did ?  probablyy not.  Are they housing  people in conditions they were railing against the entire 4 years of the trump admin. yes they are (SEE:  AOC's white suit, fence line, crying jag).  You split hairs over the small details but fail to acknowledge the general issue, typical. 

You're not incorrect. I do take issue with charactering this administration's as laughing it off and that the party is not or hasn't criticize him for it. You're also not incorrect that this is an issue where one should call out wrong as wrong... but some of the small details do matter. And respectfully I think that it's a bit disingenuous of you to do so. 

[wildcat09 29258]

34 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 You said yourself in a post earlier on that the country isn't what it is it's a toxic environment you don't like it here so you've moved a Places is better for you so have fun there you're an outlier 

 

 There are most definitely things wrong with this country and I've said that on several occasions the problem is depending on your party you blame the other party you say it's always their fault it's always the other parties fault and that's just bullshit 

 

Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

 

I think there's a lot more common ground politically on this board that is allowed by anonymous posting of us versus them you versus Me me versus you

 

Democrats actually never blame all of society's problems on Republicans. We DO blame Republicans for currently trying to prevent us from making efforts to improve things, which is pretty undeniable.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

36 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 There are most definitely things wrong with this country and I've said that on several occasions the problem is depending on your party you blame the other party you say it's always their fault it's always the other parties fault and that's just bullshit 

did you watch biden's press conference? i did not, but i'm willing to bet your mortgage it wasn't filled with division politics, blaming the other side, and trying to tear down certain groups of people.

can you think of any recent politician whose entire platform was built around division and hatred towards others?

you've identified a big part of the problem. what you haven't quite realized is it's you.

 

[wildcat09 29258]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

did you watch biden's press conference? i did not, but i'm willing to bet your mortgage it wasn't filled with division politics, blaming the other side, and trying to tear down certain groups of people.

can you think of any recent politician whose entire platform was built around division and hatred towards others?

you've identified a big part of the problem. what you haven't quite realized is it's you.

 

Their idea of divisive Democratic behavior is simply being a Democrat. Being a black or brown or woman Democrat is even more divisive, but being a Democrat at all is essentially un-American to them.

Shit, Obama tried to give them 90% of what they wanted when he was trying to negotiate his stupid grand bargain and the moron brigade here calls him the most divisive president we ever had.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are they doing every single thing the Trump admin. did ?  probablyy not.  Are they housing  people in conditions they were railing against the entire 4 years of the trump admin. yes they are (SEE:  AOC's white suit, fence line, crying jag).  You split hairs over the small details but fail to acknowledge the general issue, typical. 

This is not a great argument. No one is applauding the conditions at the border or at the border facilities unless it is those people who don't give a shit and are just making hay for their political aims. This has always been and should be through five administrations, no less, a humanitarian tragedy--a lot of which is our own  making in Central America. However, this seasonal crush that happens yearly, is now about two months into the new administration who is attempting, during a pandemic, to at least identify and alleviate some of the abuses that were occurring in the detention centers by mobilizing various entities to make room. But it's not unlike me sending 200 strangers to your house. Surprise! You may not want to put everyone in the same four rooms that you've got to spare because you don't know the various relationships, and who is sick and needs medical care. You may have had an idea that visitors were coming, but your hands were busy with the HOA for the last two months and you couldn't build anything before that because it wasn't your house until January 20th. By all means, bring AOC into it, but she was not wrong--the former administration enacted dehumanizing careless policies to discourage immigration, including causing irreparable harm to children. Time will tell if the US ever develops a humanitarian way to handle this issue, but once you (general you) know something is inhumane, it is up to every American to say, 'no' this is not right.

[Neonmoon 38127]

One side is willing to absolutely hold the current D administration accountable if only the other side would join in the accountability parade when there is a R administration 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Neonmoon

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Look at what's going on at the border right now with the overcrowded detention centers the Democrats are doing things exactly like Trump did but you're not saying a word about it as far as I can tell in direct questions to Mr. Biden he laughed off the whole issue of a border detentions

Under the Trump administration, children were forcibly separated from their families. In a large number of cases, records were not kept about this separation so that children can never be reunited with their families. We literally tore apart families and left them broken, unable to reform.

Did you:

1. Not know this?
2. Know this but think it's not a big deal?
3. Think this is still occurring under the Biden administration?
4. Know that this is not occurring but still think the Biden administration still has "exactly" or even "almost exactly" the same policies as the Trump administration?

It's not the detention centers themselves that led to so much of the outcry, it's the way children were placed in them.

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Quit splitting hairs!

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

12 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Under the Trump administration, children were forcibly separated from their families. In a large number of cases, records were not kept about this separation so that children can never be reunited with their families. We literally tore apart families and left them broken, unable to reform.

Did you:

1. Not know this?
2. Know this but think it's not a big deal?
3. Think this is still occurring under the Biden administration?
4. Know that this is not occurring but still think the Biden administration still has "exactly" or even "almost exactly" the same policies as the Trump administration?

It's not the detention centers themselves that led to so much of the outcry, it's the way children were placed in them.

It was all of those things and people being held in "cages". Look at the images we're seeing now.  Those conditions are not what I'd call good. The cage mantra was yelled continually...  separating kids from parents isn't/wasn't a good optic, but we also know there were traffickers with children.  The system is, and was overwhelmed so hope do you differentiate ?

"Exactly" was a poor choice of words on my part.  Poor, gage like conditions are still a reality for children, and individuals.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

separating kids from parents isn't/wasn't a good optic ...

what the fuck? The optics are the concern? So I guess I'll put you in the "Know this but think it's not a big deal?" category.

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

... but we also know there were traffickers with children.  The system is, and was overwhelmed so hope do you differentiate ?

Do we know there were traffickers with children? If so, how many? How does that compare to the number of children separated from parents? Totally agree that the system was overwhelmed so maybe, at a minimum, don't fucking take kids from their parents (never to see them again) until you are sure what you are doing?

[TwiceHorn 31283]

The fundamental thing that the Trump Administration did was criminally prosecute almost all "first-offense" illegal crossers.

Previous administrations prosecuted only second or subsequent offenses, that is, those that had been removed/deported and came back again.

When an adult is prosecuted criminally, s/he is placed in pre-trial detention, which means jail.  Like the rioters and everyone else.

People can't have their kids in jail and jail thus differs from immigration detention centers, where families are mostly held intact pending resolution of their non-criminal immigration case (asylum, deportation, etc.).  This is what resulted in "family separation." 

Any second or subsequent crossing could have resulted in family separation if the adults were criminally prosecuted.  This is the source of the Obama whataboutism.

The Trump Administration could have done something to mitigate the results of it's first-offense-prosecution policy, but didn't.

People showing up at the southern border, whether individual adults, children, or families, is not a new thing.  They will always present detention challenges.

Edited March 26, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

what the fuck? The optics are the concern? So I guess I'll put you in the "Know this but think it's not a big deal?" category.

Do we know there were traffickers with children? If so, how many? How does that compare to the number of children separated from parents? Totally agree that the system was overwhelmed so maybe, at a minimum, don't fucking take kids from their parents (never to see them again) until you are sure what you are doing?

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Racism and white supremacy are at the root of most of America's social, political, and economic problems

This could make for a good discussion topic, there is certainly a case to be made.  

I tend to see racism/white supremacy as a form of institutionalized moral corruption internalized among a large cross section of the population. The concept of America was built on a foundation of an economic caste system with race/ethnicity being the most determinative factor of economic mobility and I don’t think this is a controversial observation.

The “conservative intellectuals” aren’t oblivious to this either, you can see them already beginning to demonize “critical race theory” as some sort of communist plot when 99.9% of the public couldn’t tell you what critical race theory is. 

[wildcat09 29258]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

Yes. Border patrol agents and police lie about human trafficking all the time.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

I haven't jumped to any conclusion. I haven't said they are lying and I haven't said that there is trafficking. What I asked is what that prevalence is compared to the separation of non-trafficking families. I don't know, I strongly suspect you don't know, and I strongly suspect that nobody in BP knows either. In that absence of information, stripping families apart "just in case" is a terrible decision (oops, I mean bad optics).

[TwiceHorn 31283]

11 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

what the fuck? The optics are the concern? So I guess I'll put you in the "Know this but think it's not a big deal?" category.

Do we know there were traffickers with children? If so, how many? How does that compare to the number of children separated from parents? Totally agree that the system was overwhelmed so maybe, at a minimum, don't fucking take kids from their parents (never to see them again) until you are sure what you are doing?

That's irrelevant.  It's not the reason for family separation and never has been.

See my previous post that explains why families were separated.  It was solely the result of the "prosecute everyone" decision, which I suppose was intended to deter immigrants, but, like most criminal penalties, was wholly ineffective.

One additional oddity of the immigration system.  When children are apprehended, they are considered for placement with family members already present in the US.  They are disqualified from this consideration if they a) have a serious criminal record b) there is any evidence of gang affiliation or c) they have been sexually trafficked or abused.  These kids all get deported almost automatically.  It's not clear when this policy developed, maybe someone knows.

The "sexually trafficked" thing apparently comes from the old and somewhat questionable psychological shibboleth that the abused become abusers.

Edited March 26, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[pyrohornIII 4809]

23 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

It is maddening to see a group of people so in love with capitalism so against change and efficiency for the betterment of the people 

 

Their not understanding that if you make life better for all, the economy flourishes.  

22 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

So a government sponsored class to teach people how to not be a piece of shit, and actually care for their spawn, after they’ve brought it into the world. Seems logical. 

Yes, exactly.  I'd start with all these anti/vaxxer Trump loving, assault weapon advocating, smoke rolling hicks around me.

21 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I don't know man, on this very thread we are talking about a guy who comes from humble origins in lower middle class Oklahoma who, through some combination of good luck and wits and ambition and skill, he was able to become a multi-millionaire.

He isn't a celebrity CEO or some special, unique mind. He's just a guy (or gal). That is the dream.

As poker players say, all I need is a Chip and a Chair. That to me is the beauty. It's like the Maltese Falcon, a symbol for the dream.

Fuck off with this.  Just fuck off with it.  So tired of the 'land of opportunity to succeed' chant.  Not everyone can be multi-millionaires since money is a fixed asset.  I'd definitely trade fewer multimillionaires for fewer homeless, impoverished and disenfranchised.  

21 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So much this.  And the Boomers (some, not all) that benefitted from this system completely destroyed it and don't understand why the youngin's don't just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it work!

I live in a small community of those boomers.  They are some of the dumbest, greediest people I ever met.  They have no chance of seeing things as they really are because Fox has them so brainwashed.   I am here only to take care of my aging mother, and to move her would probably kill her.   I am a late boomer, and it embarrasses me to see what my fellow generation has done to squander the good fortune this country had coming out of WW2.  

 

20 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I see a lot of posts using @ChiTownDoc as an example on many things.   IIRC he’s actually from W TX, not OK. And also POC, iirc.  Or has alluded to such.  
 

You can also understand then, when other generations are weary that y’all have all the answers this time around. We fucked up college education, let us fix it by govt paying for it.  We fucked up healthcare, let us fix it by govt paying for it.   How about y’all just sit this round out and think about how we got here. 

Other generations are weary of people at the peak of the money chain hoovering up money from below like there's no tomorrow.  Tired of crooked politicians paving the way for such looting.   And tired of morons like you too selfish or blind or ignorant to see the role you are playing for those uber wealthy, playing their lackeys, posting shite like this.  They used the govt to line their pockets, now it's time for the govt to unline their pockets and put  it back into the general population with lower healthcare and higher education costs, for a start.     So yeah, the red govt broke these things, a blue govt can fix them.   

We got here because people like you were too dumb to see you were being conned.  So why don't you be the one to take a seat for a while and let the adults fix the problems.  

55 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Democrats actually never blame all of society's problems on Republicans. We DO blame Republicans for currently trying to prevent us from making efforts to improve things, which is pretty undeniable.

See above rant.  They broke the system to advantage their higher masters.   Now they want to block any attempts to set the program right again.  

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20345]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Racism and white supremacy are at the root of most of America's social, political, and economic problems. 

Come on, dude ... this is bullshit, a gross oversimplification that leads to nowhere.

[Brisketexan 104628]

So, to the extent that we have received a large inflow of migrants so that they are currently being held in inhumane conditions.....how many of y'all who are Biden voters are good with that?  How many of you think "that's fine, tough shit?"  Versus those of y'all who think that WHOEVER is the executive, we should work to make any holding/detention conditions, to the extent that they are necessary, humane?

This is where it's all going to fall apart for the Onboards of this world.  We have a shitload of people, including a shitload of Dem politicians, openly calling for, demanding, and working towards getting all detainees into humane conditions ASAP.  The current admin should do more, and work harder, to remedy that situation.

That's the difference here.  We don't like people being in inhumane conditions.  When we see an admin that does so ON PURPOSE, as a POLICY, in order to terrorize families, we get enraged.  When we see an admin that isn't moving fast enough to resolve a problem that is a function of baseline conditions -- more people are showing up than we have capacity -- we expect and demand improvement and better conditions.  We might even get angry if we see the admin is dragging its feet.  But of the past two admins, only one had "make them suffer, and maybe that will make them go away" as a policy.  Cruelty is a whole different level of moral failing (and evil) than simply indifference and failure (which are also, by the way, unacceptable).

But the false equivalence crowd isn't interested in intellectual honesty.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This could make for a good discussion topic, there is certainly a case to be made.  

I tend to see racism/white supremacy as a form of institutionalized moral corruption internalized among a large cross section of the population. The concept of America was built on a foundation of an economic caste system with race/ethnicity being the most determinative factor of economic mobility and I don’t think this is a controversial observation.

The “conservative intellectuals” aren’t oblivious to this either, you can see them already beginning to demonize “critical race theory” as some sort of communist plot when 99.9% of the public couldn’t tell you what critical race theory is. 

I believe racism/white supremacy is something used to control the masses.  To keep them divided.  If they are blaming each other for their ills, then mission accomplished. 

13 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

I know a few long time border agents.  Huge Trumpkins.  Love to talk about their big guns and macho jobs.   So yeah, I don't trust all of them when they make statements.  Some yeah, but not all.

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

4 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I know a few long time border agents.  Huge Trumpkins.  Love to talk about their big guns and macho jobs.   So yeah, I don't trust all of them when they make statements.  Some yeah, but not all.

Yeah....I had a cousin who was an agent.  I actually helped him deal with an issue or two.  To say that they are one fucked up bunch is a massive understatement.  The culture there is jaw-droppingly bad.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah....I had a cousin who was an agent.  I actually helped him deal with an issue or two.  To say that they are one fucked up bunch is a massive understatement.  The culture there is jaw-droppingly bad.

Well, I would be accused of jumping to conclusions, but I have held the assumption that there could easily be a few agents that were traffickers themselves or facilitated it and the accusation/claim against trafficking in general was just a dodge out of the Trump/mafia playbook. Not the people you all know, but there are a LOT of BP out there. I mean, back on the DACA/immigration thread I had noted cases where files were completely missing and had been deleted and a complaint was lodged by the record keepers about it. I wasn't able to follow up, but I got the impression the company was not going to renew the contract or was not going to have the contract renewed and it might have been that they were concerned they were going to end up facing lawsuits in International Criminal Court or something.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins
Edit: it was TRAC and EOIR

[David Dennison 18661]

28 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Come on, dude ... this is bullshit, a gross oversimplification that leads to nowhere.

No, it isn't. 

[RomaVicta 29794]

41 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

My friend, quit while your behind and fading.

Propublica article. Remember the secret facebook Border Patrol account?

Quote

Brian Hastings, a top Border Patrol official, stared grimly at the television cameras.

It was July 1, 2019, and Hastings was facing down a scandal: News reports had revealed that Border Patrol agents were posting wildly offensive comments and memes in a secret Facebook group.

Agents had shared crudely manipulated images of men sexually assaulting Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat and frequent antagonist of the Border Patrol; joked about migrants who died while trying to enter the United States; and made racist insults about Central Americans. The group called itself “I’m 10-15,” Border Patrol radio code for “aliens in custody,” and included some 9,500 current or former agents.

 

Fine folks. It's not just an anecdote; it's systemic. They were getting their jollies being the worst kind of cop you can be. Maybe there are  a few good apples, but the barrel is rotten.

Why hasn't Biden fixed all of this in two months? See, it's all partisan bs. They're all the same.

Also recall that the use of criticized facilities under Biden was a Covid precaution and applied to unattended minors mostly in their teens. National news media, abandoning accuracy because they worry about the constant right-wing whine about bias, leapt on the optics.

Of course, that takes a couple of sentences to explain, and who has time for that? Let's comb the Rush oldies-but-goodies for quotes that make us feel good about being shit human beings.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

20 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I believe racism/white supremacy is something used to control the masses.  To keep them divided.  If they are blaming each other for their ills, then mission accomplished. 

Right, but is this a function of an internalized corruption being exploited in the pursuit of power/profits? 
 

Racism/white supremacy exists in the population almost inherently because the problem is structural going back, I don’t know, a thousand years?  However, I’d argue racism/white supremacy is a man made disease and not inherent to the human condition, people need to be conditioned to be racist and our society does it so perfunctory that many believe it to be the natural order of things and that’s how the politics of division comes in. 
 

The history of “western civilization” is centered to the white man because it has been written and framed by white men as the greatest human success story ever told. Why would we want to change things after everything we’ve accomplished?  Never mind that this success has come at the expense of whole other populations through genocide and brutal subjugation. The remains of those oppressed populations and their sympathizers will have to assimilate to the dominate worldview or perish trying change it. Such is the way of the American conservative and today’s white supremacists.
 

In conclusion, white supremacy/racism isn’t only a tool to keep the masses divided, it is an ideology, in its own right, baked into much of the population and there is no easy cure. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Right, but is this a function of an internalized corruption being exploited in the pursuit of power/profits? 
 

Racism/white supremacy exists in the population almost inherently because the problem is structural going back, I don’t know, a thousand years?  However, I’d argue racism/white supremacy is a man made disease and not inherent to the human condition, people need to be conditioned to be racist and our society does it so perfunctory that many believe it to be the natural order of things and that’s how the politics of division comes in. 
 

The history of “western civilization” is centered to the white man because it has been written and framed by white men as the greatest human success story ever told. Why would we want to change things after everything we’ve accomplished?  Never mind that this success has come at the expense of whole other populations through genocide and brutal subjugation. The remains of those oppressed populations and their sympathizers will have to assimilate to the dominate worldview or perish trying change it. Such is the way of the American conservative and today’s white supremacists.
 

In conclusion, white supremacy/racism isn’t only a tool to keep the masses divided, it is an ideology, in its own right, baked into much of the population and there is no easy cure. 

Really good book I read a decade ago titled Race: A History Beyond Black and White, by Marc Aronson discussed the origin that you refer to in your first paragraph. I think it is still in print, I checked it out from our library. At the time, it was shelved in the young adult section and I stumbled across it by accident. The author is a historian who writes for young adults, but the book isn't written that way necessarily.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How am I stretching the truth ?

By lying. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

There you go jumping to conclusions. Border patrol agents have gone on record talking about traffickers with children. I guess they're lying ?

Yes they are. Cops lie every day. It’s part of the culture.