Just how bad are things in America? Not great!

[David Dennison 18658]

12 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally retarded not to make a decent living.

This is absolutely not true.

[Nivek 16859]

Sorry social workers, you are dumbasses and we don't need you.  Fuck those kids you help too.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

I wouldn't even bother quibbling with trying to get a working definition of "functionally retarded" out of them.

Just ask, "OK, so what should be done about the functionally retarded?"

[gmr548 16513]

America has more millionaires (almost 5x as 2nd place China) and the most self-made billionaires in the world.
America has over 20 self-made WOMEN billionaires. Over 100 worth $150mm+.
If you are interested in the most optimal place for an opportunity to go from rags to mega-riches, there is no better place, no matter your gender or race. This sort of uncapped potential and lack of a ceiling is amazing in it's meritocracy.
You want to sacrifice that and put a cap on things and a glass ceiling for folks so more people can eke out a middle class existence? I'm sure there are other places where mediocrity is a value.
Not to sound Gen Z here but, Why do Millennials think being/striving for middle class is a personality trait?

I think most people’s issue stands from the fact that said meritocracy is dissolving into a feudal state, and doing so rapidly. The window of opportunity to do what you describe just isn’t there for at least half of this country - middle class or poor, urban or rural, white or black, man or woman. Certain factors compound the problem but it’s universal at a base level.

[gmr548 16513]

Another myth.

This is absolutely not true.

I wouldn't even bother quibbling with trying to get a working definition of "functionally retarded" out of them.
Just ask, "OK, so what should be done about the functionally retarded?"

I read that as sarcasm but perhaps my better is broken.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

10 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

The four bolded have good sides to them too. i address in order.

1) large defense budget because it's basically a jobs program.  we get to be cutting edge everything because we encourage a bazillion people to be engineers.  some of them pan out and invent the microchip.  some have to work on Mark 12.1 of some missile system raytheon has remade every year for the past 25. it used to be nasa.  now it's stealth fighters.

2) i sometimes view our exorbitant healthcare costs as a sort of favor to the world.  people have to be incentivized to come up with the newest and best drug. to the extent that $ goes to docs and researchers and whatnot, that cost has to be borne by someone.  turns out those someone's are us.  the general bloat is bad of course, but half of all new drug patents are from US companies, and those that aren't still try to get patent protection here because access to the US market is important for their innovation.  it would be nice to share this cost globally, but we haven't figured out how to do that yet.  it's certainly the topic of trade deals all the time so someone is trying.

3) oil consumption is a byproduct of an ever moving economy.

4) see no. 3. a lot of people aren't starving that otherwise would. a lot of people are comfortable that otherwise wouldn't be.

Valid points.

With regard to 1), so true, but I wonder how much personnel costs make up of the defense budget (the answer is about 1/4, so that leaves a lot of room for cuts), but defense manufacturing is one of the last bastions of that type of job, many of which are union.  On 2) we also deploy our marvelous technology on futile, end-of-life endeavors, raising costs needlessly and skewing "outcomes" negatively.  On 4) poverty statistics are based on income relative to the median; because the US grants most "welfare" benefits "in-kind," they are rarely accounted for as income.

None of this really changes any of the negative points raised here, but it does offer some perspective.

[StruggleBus 3922]

27 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Sorry social workers, you are dumbasses and we don't need you.  Fuck those kids you help too.  

Fucking kids is frowned upon

[hpslugga 4044]

11 hours ago, Satchel said:

Do you remember how dissenters against the US invasion of Iraq were treated? Can you imagine what it was like being Barbara Lee as the one dissenter in the House?

How could I forget? I was one of those people. I have to tell you, that whine that they gave did not age well. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

See Hugo, I changed it back for you. You're on to something. If we reincarnate more citizens then our percentage of the global population will increase. The rest is just details.

 

@PenelopeWitherspoon's point about the home is relevant, but it requires a shift in attitude from some of our leaders as well as the populace itself. IMO, it also requires a gutting of corporate corruption. Corporate corruption seems like an unlikely companion to a low quality of home life, but it has a direct effect in ways that are intertwined with the way products and services are available, marketed, and sold to the poor and working classes. The day care that is or isn't available, and the quality of that care, and so on. From school lunch programs to influencing the way roads and highways and developments are built and where, it is a spider web that is fragile in appearance but strong in its resilience.

 

While I agree to a point, we absolutely need to acknowledge that there are just some truly bad parents out there.  People that should not procreate.  Kids that are left in bad situations.  We have to learn to address those issues.  Otherwise, there will always be an underclass of people that did nothing but have an unfortunate circumstance of birth.

[Nivek 16859]

Link

1/3 of US Healthcare costs go to bureaucracy.   Which works out to about $2500/person.  This is 4X the cost of administrative costs in Canada, which spends 17% on administrative overhead.  

Quote

“Some folks estimate that the U.S. would save $628 billion if administrative costs were as low as they are in Canada,” said Jamie Daw, an assistant professor of health policy and management at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health in New York City.  “That’s a staggering amount,” Daw said in an email. “It’s more than enough to pay for all of Medicaid spending or nearly enough to cover all out-of-pocket and prescription drug spending by Americans.”

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Valid points.

With regard to 1), so true, but I wonder how much personnel costs make up of the defense budget (the answer is about 1/4, so that leaves a lot of room for cuts), but defense manufacturing is one of the last bastions of that type of job, many of which are union.  On 2) we also deploy our marvelous technology on futile, end-of-life endeavors, raising costs needlessly and skewing "outcomes" negatively.  On 4) poverty statistics are based on income relative to the median; because the US grants most "welfare" benefits "in-kind," they are rarely accounted for as income.

None of this really changes any of the negative points raised here, but it does offer some perspective.

The “but the defense budget is really a jobs program” always gets me for several reasons:

1. It’s basically admitting we have socialism but exclusively around the military because “they’re special” so it doesn’t count as socialism.

2. Nothing is preventing us from turning military jobs into healthcare, education, or public service jobs. It’s not about the money, it’s about prioritizing funding towards things that build better lives here instead of destroying them abroad.  But that would be socialism, lol. 

3. Obviously we need a military but I have to question how all the spending is making us safer?  Who exactly is all that money defending? Defense contractors and their employees?  It certainly isn’t protecting us from cyber attacks, pandemics, or foreign disinformation campaigns. Basically what I’m saying is the role of “defense spending” could use a paradigm shift to actually go towards DEFENSE. 

[wildcat09 29256]

9 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

America has more millionaires (almost 5x as 2nd place China) and the most self-made billionaires in the world.

America has over 20 self-made WOMEN billionaires. Over 100 worth $150mm+.

If you are interested in the most optimal place for an opportunity to go from rags to mega-riches, there is no better place, no matter your gender or race. This sort of uncapped potential and lack of a ceiling is amazing in it's meritocracy.

You want to sacrifice that and put a cap on things and a glass ceiling for folks so more people can eke out a middle class existence? I'm sure there are other places where mediocrity is a value.

Not to sound Gen Z here but, Why do Millennials think being/striving for middle class is a personality trait?

Imagine bragging about this.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

 

13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don’t know. Actively trying to stop people from voting seems pretty anti-American to me. 

They only want to stop those who aren't the best voters, are too dumb to vote.  You know anyone who isn't white and male, or don't see the white male as the natural leaders in our country.

12 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Thank you for reminding me of another problem in America.  Many jobs that improve society and require people giving a fuck, often do not pay well.  The majority of artists, teachers, scholars, journalists, public defenders, civil rights activists, writers, and public servants do not make a good living in this country.  Instead, our society tends to reward the most sociopathic behavior at the expense of integrity. 
 

“Be careful what kind of leaders you’re producing here.”

Our school district will hire someone based on their ability to coach a sport, then stick them into some academic slot.  Coaches are teaching art, English and other subjective topics.  Coaches have a mindset of black and white, scoreboard.  That's not a good fit for a lot of liberal arts classes.   My son's senior English teacher has 12 years experience coaching girl's softball and none teaching English.   That is definitely hiring with the wrong priorities you would think.  

But maybe overall it's not wrong.  This school will have maybe only 15% go on to higher education opportunities.  So athletics is what keeps many of the other 85% invested in school.   Someone mentioned the Roman Empire.  Our sports megaliths and the importance of them in our everyday life reminds me of the gladiators and the crowds in the colosseum.   But this is where we have come, and it's been such a slow progression, it's become not only acceptable, but aspirational.  

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Imagine what we could do with an education budget the size of the defense budget.  We’d probably have cured cancer or something even cooler than the death machines.

Or infrastructure.  Or mental health.

9 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Programs that help educate parents on how to provide a nurturing learning environment for their children could also be part of a massive education budget. 

Maybe give people a decent wage so they can stay home with their kids instead of having to work 2 or 3 jobs?  Or giving stay at home moms some sort of valuation for their time in raising our next generation instead of ignoring it and only recognizing tangible things like work that contributes directly to the GNP.  Or giving parents the hope that their kid can actually get out of the hood without sports, music or hustling.   

We suck as a society at teaching our kids about sex, relationships and parenting.   But by the age of 8 I knew how to shoot a rifle.  

Like the war industry, a lot of people depend on others having fucked up personal lives.  Counselors, preachers and lawyers come to mind.   And when it aggregates to a societal level, then politicians get involved.    

The general suspicion is that no cancer cure, or cure for the common cold will be found, because too many people make money off of those ailments.  Same for this.  Same for war machines.  

[Michael Knight 12898]

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21063]

14 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

How could I forget? I was one of those people. I have to tell you, that whine that they gave did not age well. 

I remember your stance from the hornfans days.  

I also remember being on the other side of that view and was very firm in my conviction that you were wrong.  And then you proceeded to absolutely destroy every point I had/made and how much that pissed me off.  But then, I started following up on links you sent and slowly realized I just might not be as informed as I thought. 

In hindsight, that pwnage by you, and a few others, is probably what kept me from continuing down the path to maga land.

So, a very delayed thank you.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The “but the defense budget is really a jobs program” always gets me for several reasons:

1. It’s basically admitting we have socialism but exclusively around the military because “they’re special” so it doesn’t count as socialism.

2. Nothing is preventing us from turning military jobs into healthcare, education, or public service jobs. It’s not about the money, it’s about prioritizing funding towards things that build better lives here instead of destroying them abroad.  But that would be socialism, lol. 

3. Obviously we need a military but I have to question how all the spending is making us safer?  Who exactly is all that money defending? Defense contractors and their employees?  It certainly isn’t protecting us from cyber attacks, pandemics, or foreign disinformation campaigns. Basically what I’m saying is the role of “defense spending” could use a paradigm shift to actually go towards DEFENSE. 

All fair points.  Although I'm not so sure you can turn one kind of job into another just like that.  Or we wouldn't be bitching so much about the loss of manufacturing jobs.

[wildcat09 29256]

IIRC, I think slugga was possibly the only poster against invading Afghanistan too? There were a few others against Iraq, but I think he might've truly been the only one that got it right on Afghanistan.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Imagine bragging about this.

Imagine being ashamed or embarrassed about that.

We live in the same building, but have different views. And that's okay, I guess, right?

[Incredulity 11554]

17 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Link

1/3 of US Healthcare costs go to bureaucracy.   Which works out to about $2500/person.  This is 4X the cost of administrative costs in Canada, which spends 17% on administrative overhead.  

 

And the solution to reducing bureaucracy is...

***Checks notes***

 

government run healthcare?

[wildcat09 29256]

4 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Imagine being ashamed or embarrassed about that.

We live in the same building, but have different views. And that's okay, I guess, right?

I'm not ashamed or embarrassed about it, I'm angry about it. Like I'd be angry about some dipshit bragging about how many castles his king had.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Imagine being ashamed or embarrassed about that.

We live in the same building, but have different views. And that's okay, I guess, right?

“Some people choose to view the world from the top of Mount Everest celebrating what they have.  Others view the the world from the bottom of Death Valley seeing what could be.”  
 

-paraphrasing Elizabeth Warren from one of her books. 

[hpslugga 4044]

6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I remember your stance from the hornfans days.  

I also remember being on the other side of that view and was very firm in my conviction that you were wrong.  And then you proceeded to absolutely destroy every point I had/made and how much that pissed me off.  But then, I started following up on links you sent and slowly realized I just might not be as informed as I thought. 

In hindsight, that pwnage by you, and a few others, is probably what kept me from continuing down the path to maga land.

So, a very delayed thank you.

I suppose I could claim partial credit, but what kept you from continuing down the path to maga land is the fact that you're a real fuckin' man. It also helps that you're able to recognize a pitiful train wreck when you see it.

It's not in my nature to flatter; it's just that a real fuckin' man can admit when he's wrong no matter what the subject is. What real men don't do is make excuse after excuse after they've been exposed (like when Alex Jones blamed HRC for his position on Sandy Hook), double down on their own wrongness (Donald Trump's entire "adult" life), invent fake problems and/or blame fake villains, refuse to take responsibility for their own crap, permit others to do their thinking for them, or refuse to hold themselves to the same standards that they hold others. 

I actually didn't start out anti-war right off the bat. I arrived at the aforementioned stance through years upon years of searching for what the actual truth is. In this country, and all others, that takes a dedicated effort because as I've said many times before: you aren't going to get the answers from politicians, you're not going to get the answers from big corporate media, and you're not going to get the answers from gurus, whether self-described or misperceived as same by sycophantic followers. 

[TwiceHorn 31280]

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

And the solution to reducing bureaucracy is...

***Checks notes***

 

government run healthcare?

At some point, the system becomes so fragmented among practitioners, practice groups, hospitals, insurers that government bureaucracy would be a welcome relief.

[Guest Lobo]

Anecdotal, but I can't imagine it's much different in other large hospital systems.  But a good friend runs Ascension Seton whole system as the top non-physician.  He worked for President Bush in various Federal Departments, very connected Republican, traditional conservative/free-market guy.  Says the bureaucracy and redundancy at Ascension and in all the other large hospitals in his Texas peer group (they all share notes a lot these days with Covid-19 obviously)  blows away the worst shitshow in any government agency in D.C. except for the Dept. of Education.  To call these hospitals "private" is a crime.  They're just the storefront for insurance businesses.    

[hpslugga 4044]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

At some point, the system becomes so fragmented among practitioners, practice groups, hospitals, insurers that government bureaucracy would be a welcome relief.

We have more than twice the per capita costs of healthcare than pretty much any other first world country, and we happen to be the only one with a privatized system. It's beyond dishonest to assume as a given that a national system would not be noticeably better on that front.

Edited March 25, 2021 by hpslugga

[pyrohornIII 4809]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

We have more than twice the per capita costs of healthcare than any other first world country, and we happen to be the only one with a privatized system. It's beyond dishonest to assume as a given that a national system would not be noticeably better on that front.

Or at least regulate the one we have better.   

[Incredulity 11554]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

At some point, the system becomes so fragmented among practitioners, practice groups, hospitals, insurers that government bureaucracy would be a welcome relief.

LOL...you honestly believe that is the state of affairs in US healthcare today?

Its all been consolidated into a few dozen mega-providers and insurers that have the scale to deal with the current set of government mandates/regulations/payment schemes.... 

[Neonmoon 38127]

It is maddening to see a group of people so in love with capitalism so against change and efficiency for the betterment of the people 

 

[wildcat09 29256]

Oh no, he thinks he knows what he's talking about. Brace yourselves.

[Incredulity 11554]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Oh no, he thinks he knows what he's talking about. Brace yourselves.

Explain away dick breath.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

It is maddening to see a group of people so in love with capitalism so against change and efficiency for the betterment of the people 

Many of them are doctors that don’t want to take a pay cut.  But they too are becoming more of a commodity as corporations continue to dominate the American healthcare industry and the profit squeeze will be coming for the doctors. 
 

The British healthcare system has lasted for 70 years and they have legit socialized medicine, not the socialism-curious M4A being proposed here. One difference is most physicians there aren’t making $300k+ like they are here, they’re making closer to $100k+ which is basically Venezuela wages to chitowndoc. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Many of them are doctors that don’t want to take a pay cut.  But they too are becoming more of a commodity as corporations continue to dominate the American healthcare industry and the profit squeeze will be coming for the doctors. 
 

The British healthcare system has lasted for 70 years and they have legit socialized medicine, not the socialism-curious M4A being proposed here. One difference is most physicians there aren’t making $300k+ like they are here, they’re making closer to $100k+ which is basically Venezuela wages to chitowndoc. 

It also doesn't cost them as much as it does Doctors here to get their education completed.  There are a lot of push pull issues here.  

[RomaVicta 29792]

14 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

America: People from oppressive shithole countries prefer the USA everytime! Waddaya squawkin' about, traitors?

America: Home of the amazing double-jointed shoulders that never tire of self-congratulation!

America: As long as we're better than Amin's Uganda and lawless areas of Latin America, we're the motherfucking bomb!

 

My friend, this attitude is tired and unproductive. I'll be tiresome and repeat the assertion that constant self-congratulation was never good for a person, business, or country. True or false?

[David Dennison 18658]

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

LOL...you honestly believe that is the state of affairs in US healthcare today?

Its all been consolidated into a few dozen mega-providers and insurers that have the scale to deal with the current set of government mandates/regulations/payment schemes.... 

We should probably just remove insurers from the equation.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

It also doesn't cost them as much as it does Doctors here to get their education completed.  There are a lot of push pull issues here.  

Oh I totally get that and IMO opinion, people that get into medical school should have that education publicly funded. 

[RomaVicta 29792]

14 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

The nice thing about America is that you have to be functionally re___ed not to make a decent living.

And you can vote your re____ation* into high office!!!!!!!!!!

 

*Edited out of respect to the below, even though I hate losing this word. 

I am only making a request, but please don’t use that word. I have a friend whose nephew is autistic (And an amazing young man) and she has heard him called that word and it really sets her off. It’s a very hurtful word to use and needs to become a relic in our vocabulary. Again I am only asking. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by RomaVicta

[Mdhorn 5911]

 

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Explain away dick breath.

Literally go to any pharmacy abroad or either in Mexico or in Canada since they're closest and check out drug prices.  It has shit to do with regulation dumbfuck.  I don't know why idiots enjoy calling other people names but this board thrives on them.  Do you remember the cases of individuals buying up pharmaceutical companies and then inflating prices 600 percent?  Because that happened dumbshit and it's real easy to google.  

[B00M 6280]

16 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.

We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 

Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

These feel related

[Mdhorn 5911]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

It also doesn't cost them as much as it does Doctors here to get their education completed.  There are a lot of push pull issues here.  

or equipment--that new respirator costs an absurd amount but hey, there's a pandemic and it's needed.  Capitalism. 

[Incredulity 11554]

1 minute ago, Mdhorn said:

 

Literally go to any pharmacy abroad or either in Mexico or in Canada since they're closest and check out drug prices.  It has shit to do with regulation dumbfuck.  I don't know why idiots enjoy calling other people names but this board thrives on them.  Do you remember the cases of individuals buying up pharmaceutical companies and then inflating prices 600 percent?  Because that happened dumbshit and it's real easy to google.  

Strong to Charlie Strong.

[Mdhorn 5911]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Strong to Charlie Strong.

I seldom do this -- it's low class but did this for effect.  Does it help arguments?  Did it do a thing to convert your opinion?  It's always low hanging fruit but seems to be the way some communicate.  That or through ignore feature but I'm guessing you have thoughts that are worth reading.    

[SydneyCarton 47884]

34 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Many of them are doctors that don’t want to take a pay cut.  But they too are becoming more of a commodity as corporations continue to dominate the American healthcare industry and the profit squeeze will be coming for the doctors. 
 

The British healthcare system has lasted for 70 years and they have legit socialized medicine, not the socialism-curious M4A being proposed here. One difference is most physicians there aren’t making $300k+ like they are here, they’re making closer to $100k+ which is basically Venezuela wages to chitowndoc. 

To be completely fair, and @ChiTownDoc can correct me if I'm mistaken, but his wages/largesse are a result of him starting and running his own company in the medical field. Not as an actual physician. So basically he's just an entrepreneur and citing him as an example of doctor's wages would be foundationally incorrect.  

[RomaVicta 29792]

15 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Student debt ?  If you're too fucking stupid to understand that $100k in student loans isn't gonna be paid off in your chosen major of some fill in the blank  studies degree that doesn't pay a living wage, that's on you, and your mother and father.

College education is not merely about trade school. All education funded publicly should be about making a better educated and intellectually competent electorate. You're actually describing the very problem with the obscenely high cost of an American college education. Why do we charge so goddamn much for a credential that we essentially require?

I suggest that student loans became a handy racket. The banks give no risk loans backed by the government. Government money goes to banks who don't have to risk a fucking thing. Colleges can soak students because they have to have the credential and, hey, the banks are making money on this, why shouldn't we?

Next, low wage jobs that once could actually defray most of the cost of public university education, including UT, have not kept up so that a student could work the summer while at home or while in college and pay for the education. Hmmm, who does that keep down either via lack of education or crippling debt?

Our prisons are a horrifying disgrace of unjustly harsh punishment and conditions (yuck, yuck! Rape is funny when you talk about prison. Ha ha ha!). Starting a person out of college into life with a crippling debt is another disgrace without the degree of physcial horror and degradation that we support in our prisons.

I didn't face student debt when I graduated UT a million years ago. If you worked on an oil rig for the summer, you could live like a king in Austin while going to UT for nine months. I'm a boomer. When I started my life with a single mother, I was stunned at the costs of college. How did my generation allow this to happen? Ignorance in my case. Something sinister in other cases.

The problems facing this country are not addressed by facile observations that people driven from their homelands by violence, poverty, or persecution prefer the USA. Nor are the not terribly complicated problems with our medical and college systems addressed merely by platitude.

A snappy (well, once snappy) rejoinder only allows the speaker to walk by an issue in self-congratulatory smugness. Blaming the victims, college graduates crushed by inescable debt because some pointy heads insist that study of history, English, philosophy, or social science just might be worthwhile as a way to develop an intellect, is even worse.

Do you want a country just a dick hair better than Nicaragua? Do you want a country filled only with technicians denied the opportunity for intellectual improvement that was once common to university education? Is this the best path? 

I don't think so. And these are just a few matters of public concern that will not improve with blithe dismissal.

Edited March 25, 2021 by RomaVicta

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

9 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

To be completely fair, and @ChiTownDoc can correct me if I'm mistaken, but his wages/largesse are a result of him starting and running his own company in the medical field. Not as an actual physician. So basically he's just an entrepreneur and citing him as an example of doctor's wages would be foundationally incorrect.  

Yes.  I was an early mover in value based medicine / bundle payments etc.  We had 150 doctors plus (and loads of PA/NP’s) before I did my PE deal.  Still own 25% and they kept my dumbass on as CEO...

I would do quite well as a doc even taking only Medicare but I hit the lottery because of the business side of medicine.

I have zero issues w M4A.  But it needs to be done the right way - I’ll get into that later but it’s very doable.  Damn shame that the insurance lobby is so damn strong we can’t even have this convo where it matters...

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

LOL...you honestly believe that is the state of affairs in US healthcare today?

Its all been consolidated into a few dozen mega-providers and insurers that have the scale to deal with the current set of government mandates/regulations/payment schemes.... 

This is true.  

[TwiceHorn 31280]

22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

To be completely fair, and @ChiTownDoc can correct me if I'm mistaken, but his wages/largesse are a result of him starting and running his own company in the medical field. Not as an actual physician. So basically he's just an entrepreneur and citing him as an example of doctor's wages would be foundationally incorrect.  

That is true, and his company is premised on cost-effective delivery of care.

Nonetheless, the average salary for a physician in the UK is what most US MDs consider a pittance and what poor GPs in ruralish locations make.

I think $300k/year for a US specialist is a low estimate.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

56 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

America: As long as we're better than Amin's Uganda and lawless areas of Latin America, we're the motherfucking bomb!

 

Also,

America:  We had nothing to do with those countries being so messed up!

[TwiceHorn 31280]

5 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

This is true.  

Still, as far as I can tell, the backoffice needs of most practices are still pretty astounding because of all the various plans.  

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Still, as far as I can tell, the backoffice needs of most practices are still pretty astounding because of all the various plans.  

Absolutely.  It’s insanity.  

Edit:  90% of our docs are independent contractors - our value prop is navigating all that BS.  These days you really need to be a partner in a 5 person plus practice or just work for someone.  Hanging up a shingle doesn't work 99% of the time.  Unless you're doing private pay/cosmetic etc...

Edited March 25, 2021 by ChiTownDoc

[RomaVicta 29792]

3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I understand your point here and I don’t actually disagree with you (or with Obama when he made it), but in this instance I’m using it as it’s generally understood, not literal. Which is to say, someone whose beginnings were not special or otherwise more uniquely privileged to go from a poor, middle or upper middle class background to being a billionaire.

If you are one of those people who think the pursuit of money is bad and then actually obtaining a ton of it means you are evil, then this uniquely American and seemingly magical opportunity to go from absolutely nothing to super rich is probably not going to impress you. But the fact this opportunity exists opens up a lot of lanes for innovation and inspires people to stretch and create.

Negged for being off point and inventing an argument not made. No one has come near suggesting or alluding to a hostility towards attaining wealth.

I'm not negging you for the absurd notion that leading the world in female billionaires somehow balances even a single point that Hugo makes. You likely truly believe it.

My second inclination to neg you further for your usual mealy mouthedness (I understand and don't actually disagree blah blah blah) is balanced by your rare directness in (of course, without explanation or attempt at arguement) in negging my post about guys like you needing illusory liberals to hate. 

I don't believe that you do understand. I certainly doubt that you "don't actually disagree." 

But a world where a few percent of billionaires are just about totally self-made justifies or balances the op must be a very nice world to live in. The word illusory comes again to mind.