Just how bad are things in America? Not great!

[Hornius Emeritus 12,420]

18 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Without an illusory liberal to loathe, the American "conservative" doesn't know who he is. Thus the cult right's unrelenting flow of bile wrapped in pro-American bunk.

Literally true. Good article from Politico:   https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/03/21/owning-the-libs-history-trump-politics-pop-culture-477203

[Michael Knight 12,898]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Serious question---who did Oprah steal her billions from?  Or did she inherit it all?  

Bees

[Guest Lobo]

Uh, the bees said it was reparations and called everything square.  Or hex, or whatever those little fuckers say.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by Lobo

[Hornius Emeritus 12,420]

19 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We spend more on defense than the next 10 countries combined. 
 

We have military personnel in over 100 different countries. 
 

We incarcerate more citizens than anyone in the world, in fact, despite only having 4% of the global population, over 21% of all people in prison are in the United States. 

 

We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close. 
 

The cost of healthcare per person is the highest in the world and has been for as long as I can remember. 
 

32% of American workers have medical debt—and over half have defaulted on it.

 

The United States currently has more than $1.31 trillion in student loan debt, easily #1 in the world. 

 

We are #1 in the world when it comes to drug overdose deaths. 
 

No country in the world has more gun violence suicides or guns per person.

We consume more oil than any other nation. 
 

We lead the world in number of billionaires while consistently coming in the top 10 when it comes to any wealth inequality metric. 
 

Life expectancy has declined in America each of the last four years.

Our GDP ranks #1 in the world because our business is death and we are really good at it. 
 

I know many of us live in reasonable comfort making it easy to ignore much of this but the America we are living in is going through some things and it will not get better without better people in high places willing to tackle these issues head on.  Winning elections doesn’t fix anything. 
 

/rant

Some of these statements need qualifiers and/or are debatable.

Example: "We have military personnel in over 100 different countries. "

True.  But in almost every case 1) We are there at the host country's request 2) it may very well be argued that the alternative would be even more expensive and uglier.

And:

"We incarcerate more citizens than anyone in the world."

This may or may not be true.  China's numbers are unknown. The Uighurs and those in other prison camps would have to be factored in.

And:

"We hold the record for covid-19 deaths and it is not close."

In terms of raw deaths, yes. In terms of per capita deaths, we are 12th behind countries like the UK, Italy, Hungary etc...






 

[ChiTownDoc 21,101]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Many of them are doctors that don’t want to take a pay cut.  But they too are becoming more of a commodity as corporations continue to dominate the American healthcare industry and the profit squeeze will be coming for the doctors. 
 

The British healthcare system has lasted for 70 years and they have legit socialized medicine, not the socialism-curious M4A being proposed here. One difference is most physicians there aren’t making $300k+ like they are here, they’re making closer to $100k+ which is basically Venezuela wages to chitowndoc. 

Venezuelan Women > Venezuelan wages

[Guest Lobo]

Technically, we have military personnel in closer to 140 countries.  At their embassies, many countries use their own nations' state or federal police to guard the embassy and its dignitaries.  The U.S. makes use of Marine Security Guards, battalion sized detachment of USMC.  And they are not just window dressing.  But as stated above, we're in all these countries for myriad reasons.  We're only really encroaching on about a dozen or so at any one given time.  Which yes...is too many .

[Hank Scorpio 17,723]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Nobody needs a billion dollars.  I’m maybe 10% there. 

I think you and me should be best friends. And it has nothing to do with you having $100,000,000. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,668]

35 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

a billion dollars.  I’m maybe 10% there.

 

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

20 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

We have military personnel in over 100 different countries. 
 

This is strictly true but misleading. In a whole host of countries we have military attaches and/or Embassy security units that the Pentagon counts as deployments.  But the personnel are there with diplomatic status and most nations that have a diplomatic presence of any significance include attaches as part of that mix, including most countries with embassies in the U.S.

Then there are CT training exercises and joint training/exercises with Allies at their invitation.  “U.S. Presence” in the sense of permanent or long term presence with combat or war fighting capability is a lot smaller.  The map at the link below is a pretty good visual but even so is not perfect, as evidenced by the same blue star symbolizing everything from Rammstein to the small training mission in Botswana.  The yellow dots don’t necessarily mean that US personnel had a long presence in country, the nation could also have take part in training held in the United States.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/map-shows-places-world-where-us-military-operates-180970997/

 

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Technically, we have military personnel in closer to 140 countries.  At their embassies, many countries use their own nations' state or federal police to guard the embassy and its dignitaries.  The U.S. makes use of Marine Security Guards, battalion sized detachment of USMC.  And they are not just window dressing.  But as stated above, we're in all these countries for myriad reasons.  We're only really encroaching on about a dozen or so at any one given time.  Which yes...is too many .

There is no Embassy in the world with a battalion sized detachment of USMC security guards, the minimum detachment is usually seven plus one.  You’re never getting more than maybe a dozen outside of Baghdad or Kabul.  And the primary security is for a Mission is provided by the host nation, the next level by locally hired guards.  The MSGs have a clear role to play, but they are far from the first line of security, 

Edited March 25, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[Guest Lobo]

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There is no Embassy in the world with a battalion sized detachment of USMC security guards, the minimum detachment is usually seven plus one.  You’re never getting more than maybe a dozen outside of Baghdad or Kabul.  And the primary security is for a Mission is provided by the host nation, the next level by locally hired guards.  The MSGs have a clear role to play, but they are far from the first line of security, 

That's why I said the MSG is a battalion sized command of the USMC.  I never typed that each embassy has a battalion, the MSG is in and of itself battalion sized.  I know you know how it works, but I didn't claim there was 6 companies sitting on one embassy in Lesotho.  I merely made mention of the command structure and then they're peppered around several embassies/consuls around the world.  We're on the same page here dude.  

What I would like to know is who guards those other ~60 or so embassies that aren't staffed by MSG.

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

That's why I said the MSG is a battalion sized command of the USMC.  I never typed that each embassy has a battalion, the MSG is in and of itself battalion sized.  I know you know how it works, but I didn't claim there was 6 companies sitting on one embassy in Lesotho.  I merely made mention of the command structure and then they're peppered around several embassies/consuls around the world.  We're on the same page here dude.  

What I would like to know is who guards those other ~60 or so embassies that aren't staffed by MSG.

Locally hired guards and host nation police. MSG focuses mainly on internal security of facilities and there are some posts that don’t require their presence, especially consulates. If you walk by an Embassy and actually see a Marine, it’s means you’re in a pretty “hot” place. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[Guest Lobo]

One of my little cousins (well, he was little.....now he's in his late 30's) rolled off of Force Recon and is still contemplating his next gig.  I encouraged him to go for MSG. With his language skills, he could get a nice deployment though I know you go where you're needed.  But he's damn near 20 years in and is looking to retire probably before that cush embassy assignment would be made available to him.  He doesn't want to go the instructor route on anything because he likes people about as much as I do.  He's been in some shit so he deserves a nice swan song.  

Okay, back to things in America going well and not going well.  

Well:  Other than the Trump boat parade on Lake Travis last summer, we not currently have any boats stuck on any major waterways.  

Not Well:  We are averaging one mass shooting per day since Daylight Saving Time began.  I think we all know who to blame there.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,101]

38 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I think you and me should be best friends. And it has nothing to do with you having $100,000,000. 

Only half is liquid.  I think you missed that part.  

[bad_teammate 13,132]

you have more money than me so you should be guillotined but the cutoff for that is somehow magically between the two of us

[fattyflattie 4,636]

7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Only half is liquid.  I think you missed that part.  

I don’t have any issue with that. Most of my best friends are the poorest ones. 

[Guest Lobo]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Only half is liquid.  I think you missed that part.  

Uh, if you need any help from a former Chicagoan---being ushered through the development process to increase the impact of your gifts at Dell Medical School or its affiliate research collaboration initiatives around campus, I'd be happy to assist you while I'm still respected there.  Obviously your money will talk all on its own, but I just want to say, "I know that dude!" Plus hey, I'll let you use my parking pass while you're dropping off the giant check for the photo op.  

[Biff Tannen 45,495]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Nobody needs a billion dollars.  I’m maybe 10% there.  I’d say half that is liquid and I have zero clue wtf I need.  Tax the living hell out of it one way or another.  You should not be able to pass on billions across generations.  Easy for this guy w no kids and no billion dollars to say, but I maintain I’d have that stance even with the extra zero tacked on. 

Any interest in adopting a drinking buddy?

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

 
 

You can also understand then, when other generations are weary that y’all have all the answers this time around. We fucked up college education, let us fix it by govt paying for it.  We fucked up healthcare, let us fix it by govt paying for it.   How about y’all just sit this round out and think about how we got here. 

wow.

 

[ndawg 1,242]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

You make a good first point, but I would argue that the conversation (at least as I understand the OP) is staked not around the trend line or trajectory, but rather relative to the 206 other sovereign countries in the known world.

I also think it is odd and would be interested in hearing your follow-up, on why you chose Henry Ford as an example for the American Dream, in a conversation we are having in 2021. The rags to riches stories are plentiful of just this year, and many are rich in diversity (e.g: Girl Billionaire, Bumble IPO) indicating it being easier for more traditionally marginalized Americans (URG/URM) to achieve the dream.

If your last point is that capitalism, or maybe more accurately American Capitalism, has subtext and is tied-in with mental illness (narcissism and sociopathy), I would challenge you on thinking about your views and why you feel like your definition of success is a definitive one. What makes you, or anyone outside of each individual, an authority on how to define success (versus an ersatz feeling). 

That is what made America great. It's a land of individuals, for individualism. We think, therefore we are. Each and every one of us. At least in my opinion.

Why it's not great anymore to me is because technology has advanced to the point where the weight of individualism cannot be held anymore; there is no shared ethic or politic. We all want and believe and strive for different things and technology has given every person agency to influence and entrench, for better or worse. And with 5G/increased speeds, it will only get worse.

I think you're reading in to my perspective a bit more than I intended to convey.

I chose Henry Ford because I think he is a classic exemplar of the American "rags-to-riches" story. He's part of our established pantheon of heroic businesspeople and, while the real person was very flawed (as Sydney mentioned), he really did make incredibly significant discoveries in mass production that made a huge impact on human civilization.

Capitalism is what it is. It's one aspect of a much larger system that is our society as a whole. I think there's a positive role for capitalism in a healthy society, but ours is not as healthy as it once was. We're still better at it than a lot of third world countries, but much of our present success is more coasting off of inertia built by previous generations than it is fueled by any present day exceptionalism. Getting back on track will involve rooting out the "takers" and elevating more of the "makers," and a lot of the successful POC entrepreneurs are indeed leading the way. I did not offer "making it" as a shorthand for American capitalism, for what it is worth... it's more of an "ersatz" (as you say) mimicry of entrepeneurship that doesn't have the self awareness to realize it ain't the real thing. I swear, if I see one more Youtube video compelling me to "smash the subscribe button" ... but I digress.

By the way, individualism is not necessarily an asset under capitalism. It certainly can be in some circumstances -- again, Ford was a great example, he reshaped the entire course of human civilization by systematically laying out an ingenious production system. But he was just one genius, and while Highland Park was way ahead of its time, his approaches are nowadays very antiquated. Over the last few decades, the most successful auto manufacturer won by building a workforce that, top to bottom, consists of a community of problem solvers who view the purpose of their jobs (and the organization) as one that benefits society. That's a very different definition of "success" than most American companies, but one that serves them well. After all, the government never made them do it, but they did it anyways, because it got the best results. Eventually, the pendulum would swing around again, and today, a certain Elon Musk is threatening to become the new Ford.

So, I don't agree with your implication that my definition of success is rigid or universal. In fact, I think I can turn it around, and suggest you think about why your definition of "American" is a definitive one:

Quote

That is what made America great. It's a land of individuals, for individualism. We think, therefore we are. Each and every one of us. At least in my opinion.

What made America "great" in WWII was Americans working together for a common cause. I think that's when we're at our best, when we're contributing our individuality towards common goals that benefit everybody.

I'm rambling now, so I'll cut myself off.

[elfenix 34,171]

37 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Only half is liquid.  I think you missed that part.  

buy this and be a little less liquid.

https://victory-motorcars.ebizautos.com/details-1959-porsche-356_roadster-used-red356.html

[DonkeyCigars 144]

7 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I think you're reading in to my perspective a bit more than I intended to convey.

I chose Henry Ford because I think he is a classic exemplar of the American "rags-to-riches" story. He's part of our established pantheon of heroic businesspeople and, while the real person was very flawed (as Sydney mentioned), he really did make incredibly significant discoveries in mass production that made a huge impact on human civilization.

Capitalism is what it is. It's one aspect of a much larger system that is our society as a whole. I think there's a positive role for capitalism in a healthy society, but ours is not as healthy as it once was. We're still better at it than a lot of third world countries, but much of our present success is more coasting off of inertia built by previous generations than it is fueled by any present day exceptionalism. Getting back on track will involve rooting out the "takers" and elevating more of the "makers," and a lot of the successful POC entrepreneurs are indeed leading the way. I did not offer "making it" as a shorthand for American capitalism, for what it is worth... it's more of an "ersatz" (as you say) mimicry of entrepeneurship that doesn't have the self awareness to realize it ain't the real thing. I swear, if I see one more Youtube video compelling me to "smash the subscribe button" ... but I digress.

By the way, individualism is not necessarily an asset under capitalism. It certainly can be in some circumstances -- again, Ford was a great example, he reshaped the entire course of human civilization by systematically laying out an ingenious production system. But he was just one genius, and while Highland Park was way ahead of its time, his approaches are nowadays very antiquated. Over the last few decades, the most successful auto manufacturer won by building a workforce that, top to bottom, consists of a community of problem solvers who view the purpose of their jobs (and the organization) as one that benefits society. That's a very different definition of "success" than most American companies, but one that serves them well. After all, the government never made them do it, but they did it anyways, because it got the best results. Eventually, the pendulum would swing around again, and today, a certain Elon Musk is threatening to become the new Ford.

So, I don't agree with your implication that my definition of success is rigid or universal. In fact, I think I can turn it around, and suggest you think about why your definition of "American" is a definitive one:

What made America "great" in WWII was Americans working together for a common cause. I think that's when we're at our best, when we're contributing our individuality towards common goals that benefit everybody.

I'm rambling now, so I'll cut myself off.

Not rambling, that was a fantastic post. Thanks, good food for thought and a fair challenge as I inadvertently did what I accused you of doing, in positing a definitive declaration for something that is necessarily fluid and visceral and iterative.

Edited March 25, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[safe sex 11,680]

Nevermind

Edited March 25, 2021 by trauma babe

[Guest Lobo]

^

 I would hope there's some serious renegotiation of front line worker comp. later this year when the brunt of this thing is over with.  

[Brisketexan 104,624]

16 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

America has more millionaires (almost 5x as 2nd place China) and the most self-made billionaires in the world.

America has over 20 self-made WOMEN billionaires. Over 100 worth $150mm+.

If you are interested in the most optimal place for an opportunity to go from rags to mega-riches, there is no better place, no matter your gender or race. This sort of uncapped potential and lack of a ceiling is amazing in it's meritocracy.

You want to sacrifice that and put a cap on things and a glass ceiling for folks so more people can eke out a middle class existence? I'm sure there are other places where mediocrity is a value.

Not to sound Gen Z here but, Why do Millennials think being/striving for middle class is a personality trait?

Highlighting this -- and referring to all of DC's posts that followed -- to focus on exactly why we are in deep shit.  We have COMPLETELY shifted the definition of "The American Dream."  And we have shifted it to a definition that serves the interest of literally a handful of people at the top ("hey, we should make America a place SUPER-hospitable to people like us") at the expense of.....99% of the people who also live here.

I don't think DC is wrong - I think he is actually articulating what the current version of "The American Dream" is.  That's the version that dominates our culture and our politics.  The American Dream is to have the chance to make unspeakable wealth and shit on gold toilets.  It's why so man of us made a literal god out of a man who had (the illusion of) wealth and gilded....everything.

 

We have decided that "The American Dream" is to be.....Donald Trump (or what we imagine him to be -- we have a tenuous grasp on truth these days).

That is NOT "The American Dream" that dominated our culture when I was born, and when my parents were making their way.  From 1945 to 1975, what was "The American Dream?"

This:

A couple of these:

.....and an annual vacation to the beach, or Yellowstone, or the Catskills.  And the ability to send your two kids to State U.

In short, a good, secure, middle class life.  A life where you found happiness because by and large, Americans across the board had a good shot of acquiring what they needed, free from worry or fear about whether they'd get a next paycheck, eat a next meal, or lose everything if they got sick, etc.  The American Dream was to be happy, and content.

We've said "fuck that dream."  The only dream worth pursuing is the dream of making so much money you shit in gold toilets and have two yachts and treat poor people like shit because fuck them they should work harder.  We gave up the achievable dream (by percentages) and went all-in on the nearly impossible dream (again, by percentages).  And that's across the board, across all races, etc.  Think of how many minority kids think the ONLY measure of "success" (that is, "living the dream") is to be RICH -- like a big-time rapper, or pro athlete, or the dealer down the street who always flashes rolls of cash and drives a Benz?  That's f'd up.  Because it's setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment and failure by a metric that you have chosen.

Should there be a chance for people to be rich? Of course.  Will there always be people who end up poor?  Yep.  But we have utterly sacrificed happiness, contentment, and security -- which are key components to living a good and healthy life -- for the singular goal of unrealistic ambition.  Ambition is good.  Even being more ambitious than most can be good.  But sacrificing so much -- the achievability of the house with the two car garage, the trip to the beach, and the ability to educate your kids, without fear of collapse -- for the remote goal of "the dream of being rich".....has not made us better off.  See the list of happiest countries in the world:

Quote

1. Finland
2. Iceland
3. Denmark
4. Switzerland
5. Netherlands
6. Sweden
7. Germany
8. Norway
9. New Zealand
10. Austria
11. Israel
12. Australia
13. Ireland
14. United States
15. Canada
16. Czech Republic
17. Belgium
18. United Kingdom
19. Taiwan
20. France

No, we're not completely miserable.  But we could do so much better.  Every such survey notes a marked decline in happiness in the US since the 1970s (not coincidentally, tracking the end of our "golden age" of across-the-board rising prosperity).

We abandoned a good American Dream, once achievable by the masses, for a new American Dream, only achievable by a select few.  And that dream isn't that great.  Shitting in a gold toilet doesn't buy you happiness.  But by buying into that dream, we have also deemed every social construct, policy, and law that serves that dream (necessarily favoring the rich) to be GOOD....and everything else that might not share that singular focus is BAD.  Perhaps shift our thinking and policies to give less favor to the top 1%, but provide more opportunity and security to the middle 80%?  NO.  YOU AMERICA-HATING COMMIE!

Look at suicide rates.  Look at life expectancy.  We are literally killing ourselves.  We should stop that.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,546]

22 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

The "Love It Or Leave It" argument is consistently the most popular (5 reps so far), idiotic, and brazen of double standards in the conservative universe. 

When a member of the party of I'm-Being-Oppressed-As-A-White-Conservative-Christian-Male-Who's-Lived-Almost-His-Entire-Goddamn-Life-In-The-Reagan-Revolution-Overton-Window notes a condition of living in America not to his liking- a sentiment on which 3 decades of the AM Talk Radio Industry have been built- the Leave America Option NEVER enters the equation, and yet it's the "go-to" classic First Option response when the left actually occupies- shares fucking common ground with Those Who Have Gotten Most Of What They Wanted: that Venn Diagram There-Are-Things-In-America-That-Could-Be-Less-Shitty overlapping slice. 

 

Do you like Biden as president of the United States?

No?

Hoo boy. You have fallen into my web, greenhorn. The consequences shall never be the same. Standby.

*sniffs some glue*

WELL WHY DON'T YOU MOVE AND LET AN IMMIGRANT FLEEING THE AFTERMATH OF THE DULLES FOREIGN POLICY TEMPLATE TAKE YER PLACE? 

!!!!!! KER- PLOOWWWW !!!!!

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Highlighting this

 

Excellent post. But I wish you hadn't posted this one photo above, although it illustrates your point quite nicely.

You see, I've given that photo a title in my head, rather like the great works of art hanging in museums worldwide.

Behold: The Golden Pussy

 

 

 

*I usually do not use that slang word, but darned if it doesn't just fit that photo.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

14 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The "Love It Or Leave It" argument is consistently the most popular (5 reps so far), idiotic, and brazen of double standards in the conservative universe. 

When a member of the party of I'm-Being-Oppressed-As-A-White-Conservative-Christian-Male-Who's-Lived-Almost-His-Entire-Goddamn-Life-In-The-Reagan-Revolution-Overton-Window notes a condition of living in America not to his liking- a sentiment on which 3 decades of the AM Talk Radio Industry have been built- the Leave America Option NEVER enters the equation, and yet it's the "go-to" classic First Option response when the left actually occupies- shares fucking common ground with Those Who Have Gotten Most Of What They Wanted: that Venn Diagram There-Are-Things-In-America-That-Could-Be-Less-Shitty overlapping slice. 

 

Do you like Biden as president of the United States?

No?

Hoo boy. You have fallen into my web, greenhorn. The consequences shall never be the same. Standby.

*sniffs some glue*

WELL WHY DON'T YOU MOVE AND LET AN IMMIGRANT FLEEING THE AFTERMATH OF THE DULLES FOREIGN POLICY TEMPLATE TAKE YER PLACE? 

!!!!!! KER- PLOOWWWW !!!!!

I agree the “love it or leave it argument” is lame. Even worse are melodramatic grown men crying on a message board and pretending they are leaving or planning to leave for some place they’ve spent a few weeks in while on holiday, because of political reasons. Also known on this site as “the ledge”.

[Brisketexan 104,624]

I agree the “love it or leave it argument” is lame. Even worse are melodramatic grown men crying on a message board and pretending they are leaving or planning to leave for some place they’ve spent a few weeks in while on holiday, because of political reasons. Also known on this site as “the ledge”.

What’s more pathetic is someone distilling down our society, culture, and policies as “political reasons.” Because then you just get to dismiss any disagreement as “political sour grapes.” You know, the same narrow “team” worldview that got us here. Keep on keeping on, that’s been working out great for us.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

22 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet.... people are still fucking killing themselves to get into our country....  Here's a wacky thought.. howz about giving them your spot ?

Sure, they can have my spot. Sounds good, let’s do this. Now what? 

[David Dennison 18,658]

People are literally dying to get into lots of countries. America is not unique in that regard.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sure, they can have my spot. Sounds good, let’s do this. Now what? 

Now what ?  The people rejoice, and sing, the air is sweeter, birds chirp prettier, food tastes better......

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

“I believe in the constitution, free speech, and the great thing about America is that we can peacefully disagree on issues but if you start criticizing this country you need to GTFO.”  -conservative ethos 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[DonkeyCigars 144]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What’s more pathetic is someone distilling down our society, culture, and policies as “political reasons.” Because then you just get to dismiss any disagreement as “political sour grapes.” You know, the same narrow “team” worldview that got us here. Keep on keeping on, that’s been working out great for us.

Policies are political reasons by definition. I think politics bleeds into societal and less so cultural concerns as well, but I guess you have a point.

Congratulations, you want to leave your homeland, and the state you are a sixth generation native, because of more than just pure play political reasons. There are some fuzzier sociological ones as well.

Edited March 26, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

“I believe in the constitution, free speech, and the great thing about America is that we can peacefully disagree on issues but if you start criticizing this country you need to GTFO.”  -conservative ethos 

No I'm just tired of hearing you bash everything. At a certain point it gets way beyond boring, and becomes boorish.  

Well, we have a democratic majority now so they'll fix all those things you hate I'm sure.  

[RomaVicta 29,792]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Highlighting this -- and referring to all of DC's posts that followed -- to focus on exactly why we are in deep shit.  We have COMPLETELY shifted the definition of "The American Dream."  And we have shifted it to a definition that serves the interest of literally a handful of people at the top ("hey, we should make America a place SUPER-hospitable to people like us") at the expense of.....99% of the people who also live here.

I don't think DC is wrong - I think he is actually articulating what the current version of "The American Dream" is.  That's the version that dominates our culture and our politics.  The American Dream is to have the chance to make unspeakable wealth and shit on gold toilets.  It's why so man of us made a literal god out of a man who had (the illusion of) wealth and gilded....everything.

 

We have decided that "The American Dream" is to be.....Donald Trump (or what we imagine him to be -- we have a tenuous grasp on truth these days).

That is NOT "The American Dream" that dominated our culture when I was born, and when my parents were making their way.  From 1945 to 1975, what was "The American Dream?"

This:

A couple of these:

.....and an annual vacation to the beach, or Yellowstone, or the Catskills.  And the ability to send your two kids to State U.

In short, a good, secure, middle class life.  A life where you found happiness because by and large, Americans across the board had a good shot of acquiring what they needed, free from worry or fear about whether they'd get a next paycheck, eat a next meal, or lose everything if they got sick, etc.  The American Dream was to be happy, and content.

We've said "fuck that dream."  The only dream worth pursuing is the dream of making so much money you shit in gold toilets and have two yachts and treat poor people like shit because fuck them they should work harder.  We gave up the achievable dream (by percentages) and went all-in on the nearly impossible dream (again, by percentages).  And that's across the board, across all races, etc.  Think of how many minority kids think the ONLY measure of "success" (that is, "living the dream") is to be RICH -- like a big-time rapper, or pro athlete, or the dealer down the street who always flashes rolls of cash and drives a Benz?  That's f'd up.  Because it's setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment and failure by a metric that you have chosen.

Should there be a chance for people to be rich? Of course.  Will there always be people who end up poor?  Yep.  But we have utterly sacrificed happiness, contentment, and security -- which are key components to living a good and healthy life -- for the singular goal of unrealistic ambition.  Ambition is good.  Even being more ambitious than most can be good.  But sacrificing so much -- the achievability of the house with the two car garage, the trip to the beach, and the ability to educate your kids, without fear of collapse -- for the remote goal of "the dream of being rich".....has not made us better off.  See the list of happiest countries in the world:

No, we're not completely miserable.  But we could do so much better.  Every such survey notes a marked decline in happiness in the US since the 1970s (not coincidentally, tracking the end of our "golden age" of across-the-board rising prosperity).

We abandoned a good American Dream, once achievable by the masses, for a new American Dream, only achievable by a select few.  And that dream isn't that great.  Shitting in a gold toilet doesn't buy you happiness.  But by buying into that dream, we have also deemed every social construct, policy, and law that serves that dream (necessarily favoring the rich) to be GOOD....and everything else that might not share that singular focus is BAD.  Perhaps shift our thinking and policies to give less favor to the top 1%, but provide more opportunity and security to the middle 80%?  NO.  YOU AMERICA-HATING COMMIE!

Look at suicide rates.  Look at life expectancy.  We are literally killing ourselves.  We should stop that.

Wow. Great post. Great post.

The people determined to come here from Central America meet their American dream by holding two jobs, living in an okay place and helping their families back home. And they are delighted to have that opportunity. The American dream you describe as the original one is what they see for their descendants if they can gain citizenship. They're delighted at that opportunity.

How many generations will have to be brainwashed by constant advertising and exposure to the element of America that thinks as you describe before they become restless and dissatisfied with a good life because they don't have an extravagant one? Maybe two?

Somehow this all relates to the transition of Americans thinking of themselves as beleaguered taxpayers instead of citizens.

Everybody is stealing from me for their health or their education or their misguided ideas about the vulnerability of the environment. None of that spending makes me feel like a man. I'm happy to bully lesser countries and cheer the tanks, but all this nanny state shit is for the birds. It's tyranny of the snowflakes and it hurts my feelings when they disagree with me!

Edited March 26, 2021 by RomaVicta

[RomaVicta 29,792]

56 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree the “love it or leave it argument” is lame. Even worse are melodramatic grown men crying on a message board and pretending they are leaving or planning to leave for some place they’ve spent a few weeks in while on holiday, because of political reasons. Also known on this site as “the ledge”.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,546]

24 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well, we have a democratic majority now so they'll fix all those things you hate I'm sure.  

Just as there will be no heaven on earth, nothing will ever be "fixed". There will be a general improving or deterioration of conditions and quality of life. As is standard, Democrats will come in, clean up the disaster the GOP has left (in this particular case, hundreds of thousands of unnecessary American deaths. bravo), conditions will slowly and methodically improve at worse, and rotting cunts like you will bitch about it, and if your candidate wins in the next election, or the right goes full on authoritarian and says fuck elections, set us back 2 steps again. At best. 

[Satchel 6,908]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Excellent post. But I wish you hadn't posted this one photo above, although it illustrates your point quite nicely.

You see, I've given that photo a title in my head, rather like the great works of art hanging in museums worldwide.

Behold: The Golden Pussy

 

 

 

*I usually do not use that slang word, but darned if it doesn't just fit that photo.

Liberace’s house was more butch.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,546]

1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree the “love it or leave it argument” is lame. Even worse are melodramatic grown men crying on a message board and pretending they are leaving or planning to leave for some place they’ve spent a few weeks in while on holiday, because of political reasons. Also known on this site as “the ledge”.

We all just witnessed supporters of a president who bragged he could shoot a guy in the street without losing supporters (which somehow didn't immediately torpedo his campaign) try to prevent a peaceful transfer of power after losing an election immediately after giving a speech saying we're going to march to the Capitol, murdering one cop and gouging out the eyes of another in the process. It was all in support of a guy who spent time and money calling for the execution of innocent Americans. A guy who refused even years later to apologize or even retract his call for the execution of innocent Americans when challenged.

None of this is opinion or hyperbole. It's a pretty dispassionate, and far from complete summation of facts.

I know people who have left the country for way less, but if you believe keeping "leaving the country" open as an option under these conditions is unreasonable, regale me with your Hollywood scriptwriter scenario under which leaving the country should be an option.

Obviously, I won't address your assertion that this is "even worse" than the poster child for standard fare conservative hypocrisy. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

9 hours ago, Enchubben said:

If America is "not great", what does that make other countries? Zero perspective from the usual crowd.

Wait, if America is great, then why were Trump and Republicans trying to "make America great again"? 

[Brisketexan 104,624]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Wait, if America is great, then why were Trump and Republicans trying to "make America great again"? 

Gosh, it do make you wonder, don't it?

"America -- GREATEST COUNTRY IN THA WORLD AND IF YOU CRITICIZE IT GET THA FUCK OUT!!!!!"

Also, from the exact same person...

"Obama ruined 'murica, and we need TRUMP TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"

I'll tell you one thing that we seem to be the greatest at: cognitive dissonance.

[hookemATL 11,611]

Hey America, you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind *clap* America. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by hookemATL
GQP: “don’t you criticize the country we just spent the past four years fucking up like a Tom Herman goal to go situation!!!”

[Guest Lobo]

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Gosh, it do make you wonder, don't it?

"America -- GREATEST COUNTRY IN THA WORLD AND IF YOU CRITICIZE IT GET THA FUCK OUT!!!!!"

Also, from the exact same person...

"Obama ruined 'murica, and we need TRUMP TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"

I'll tell you one thing that we seem to be the greatest at: cognitive dissonance.

If any of y'all can give me definitive years that America was the greatest country ever and which years it was not the best ever, please let me know.  We're having some banners sewn together to hang in the ramparts, or rafters...whatever they're called.  Basically anything since 1946 since the UPI and AP voters kinda came together on the ballots.  But yeah, any years we're "The Greatest Country Ever"...just let me know.  An even number of years is preferred for aesthetics and symmetry, but let's not get all Aggie and start claiming false titles.  

I proposed, "The United States of America...really great...glad I live here...trying to make it better...and hope you are too!"  But the idea got shot down by an AR-15, so anything y'all have, even like computer votings like from the BCS era 'n shit...we can still use that on the signage.  Thanks.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Lobo

[Biff Tannen 45,495]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Somehow this all relates to the transition of Americans thinking of themselves as beleaguered taxpayers instead of citizens.

This all relates to the bullshit concept of American Exceptionalism. 

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

10 hours ago, Lobo said:

One of my little cousins (well, he was little.....now he's in his late 30's) rolled off of Force Recon and is still contemplating his next gig.  I encouraged him to go for MSG. With his language skills, he could get a nice deployment though I know you go where you're needed.  But he's damn near 20 years in and is looking to retire probably before that cush embassy assignment would be made available to him.  He doesn't want to go the instructor route on anything because he likes people about as much as I do.  He's been in some shit so he deserves a nice swan song.  

Okay, back to things in America going well and not going well.  

Well:  Other than the Trump boat parade on Lake Travis last summer, we not currently have any boats stuck on any major waterways.  

Not Well:  We are averaging one mass shooting per day since Daylight Saving Time began.  I think we all know who to blame there.  

Watchstanders are E3-E5 and can’t be married or have a family....Det Commanders are all E6-E9 but usually on the lower end. And everyone calls them “Gunny” regardless. They get two deployments for 18 months each and can bring the family. 

[safe sex 11,680]

Just now, Lobo

^

 I would hope there's some serious renegotiation of front line worker comp. later this year when the brunt of this thing is over with.  

I'm not holding my breath, but I appreciate your sentiment.

[956 Worldwide 34,443]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

If any of y'all can give me definitive years that America was the greatest country ever and which years it was not the best ever, please let me know.  We're having some banners sewn together to hang in the ramparts, or rafters...whatever they're called.  Basically anything since 1946 since the UPI and AP voters kinda came together on the ballots.  But yeah, any years we're "The Greatest Country Ever"...just let me know.  An even number of years is preferred for aesthetics and symmetry, but let's not get all Aggie and start claiming false titles.  

I proposed, "The United States of America...really great...glad I live here...trying to make it better...and hope you are too!"  But the idea got shot down by an AR-15, so anything y'all have, even like computer votings like from the BCS era 'n shit...we can still use that on the signage.  Thanks.

After 1946 I think I’d say undisputed consensus world champs from 1989-1992 for sure as the Berlin Wall fell, the USSR went out of business, no one got mad at us about Desert Storm and people seemed to ENJOY getting their ass kicked by the Dream Team.

Lets say 1969 as well, landing on the moon is one of those things that kind of outweighs whatever else is going on. 
 

Voters at the time will give us 2001 and 2002 I think, with a lot of people voting emotions and no strong contenders. But later it will be viewed like Forest Gump as best picture. Still, no takebacks. 

And I think the world also gives us 2008 as we coast off of BHO’s electoral victory. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2,059]

38 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lets say 1969 as well, landing on the moon is one of those things that kind of outweighs whatever else is going on. 

Quite the rebound from 1968

 

 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

10 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Just as there will be no heaven on earth, nothing will ever be "fixed". There will be a general improving or deterioration of conditions and quality of life. As is standard, Democrats will come in, clean up the disaster the GOP has left (in this particular case, hundreds of thousands of unnecessary American deaths. bravo), conditions will slowly and methodically improve at worse, and rotting cunts like you will bitch about it, and if your candidate wins in the next election, or the right goes full on authoritarian and says fuck elections, set us back 2 steps again. At best. 

Yeah..... no, no they won't they'll just kick the can down the street, and use division politics to make it an us vs them thing as they always do, always have done.