UAP Pentagon Report (UFOs, Foo Fighters, Commie Drones)

[ztejas 43450]

7 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

Dimensions, in the context of the multiverse theory.

Parallel Universes

Alternate Realities/Timelines

  Reveal hidden contents

"Einstein's theory of relativity does a fantastic job for explaining big things," Greene says. "Quantum mechanics is fantastic for the other end of the spectrum — for small things. The big problem is that each theory is great for each realm, but when they confront each other, they are ferocious antagonists, and the mathematics falls apart."

String theory smooths out the mathematical inconsistencies that currently exist between quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity. It posits that the entire universe can be explained in terms of really, really small strings that vibrate in 10 or 11 dimensions — meaning dimensions we can't see. If it exists, it could explain literally everything in the universe — from subatomic particles to the laws of speed and gravity.

So what does this have to do with the possibility that a multiverse exists?

"There are a couple of multiverses that come out of our study of string theory," Greene says. "Within string theory, the strings that we're talking about are not the only entities that this theory allows. It also allows objects that look like large flying carpets, or membranes, which are two dimensional surfaces. And what that means, within string theory, is that we may be living on one of those gigantic surfaces, and there can be other surfaces floating out there in space."

That theory, he says, might be testable in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

"If we are living on one of these giant membranes, then the following can happen: When you slam particles together — which is what happens at the LHC — some debris from those collisions can be ejected off of our membrane and be ejected into the greater cosmos in which our membrane floats," he says. "If that happens, that debris will take away some energy. So if we measure the amount of energy just before the protons collide and compare it with the amount of energy just after they collide, if there's a little less after — and it's less in just the right way — it would indicate that some had flown off, indicating that this membrane picture is correct."

Greene explains that when he began studying string theory and parallel universes, it wasn't because he could one day measure energy at CERN or develop new mathematical equations. He simply liked the idea, he says, of studying something on such a large scale.

"We're trying to talk about not just the universe but perhaps other universes — but all within a logical framework that allows us to make some definitive statements," he says. "To me, that's enormously exciting, to step outside the everyday and really look at the universe, within these mathematical terms, on its grandest scales."

Do parallel universes exist? We might live in a multiverse | Space

It's the crab people you idiots.

[Brisketexan 105142]

12 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

Gary Nolan has pieces of alleged material that in his conclusion could not have been made on earth using metallurgy as we understand it. 

"Alleged" is doing some heavy lifting there.  Submit a sample to a truly credible source -- a lab at MIT, something like that.  If they say "this is impossible with our understanding of metallurgy," I'll certainly listen.

13 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

It just takes 1 instance for it to be true. Explain every sighting away 100% conclusively away… 

That's not how the burden of proof works.  It is not on me to prove the negative.  All of the sightings point me to "maybe, maybe not."  Meaning I'm not reaching a conclusion one way or the other.  I agree that many are interesting and quite puzzling.  But they are not hard proof.

I will note, however, that we could go back about 500-700 years, and plug in "sightings of angels and/or demons" to your argument -- of which there were hundreds/thousands -- and say "it just takes one instance for it to be true."  There are plenty of examples in human history of us being completely wrong about what we thought we observed.  And not just one-offs, en masse.  

I'm holding out for hard evidence.  I'm not opposed to it -- I'm quite open to it.  I just haven't seen it, and nobody has been able to produce it.

It's no different than sasquatch, which young brisket TOTALLY believed in and wanted to believe in.  Without hard evidence -- hair or tissue that can be DNA sampled -- no dice.  And the fact that this many people have been looking for this long and have NOT found any?  Yeah, I'm comfortable concluding that there is no sasquatch.  Which is a bummer, cuz I thought the idea was cool.

[nineliveslost 2760]

14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

It's the crab people you idiots.

correction, crab people from another dimension 

[Texasborn91 935]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Alleged" is doing some heavy lifting there.  Submit a sample to a truly credible source -- a lab at MIT, something like that.  If they say "this is impossible with our understanding of metallurgy," I'll certainly listen.

That's not how the burden of proof works.  It is not on me to prove the negative.  All of the sightings point me to "maybe, maybe not."  Meaning I'm not reaching a conclusion one way or the other.  I agree that many are interesting and quite puzzling.  But they are not hard proof.

I will note, however, that we could go back about 500-700 years, and plug in "sightings of angels and/or demons" to your argument -- of which there were hundreds/thousands -- and say "it just takes one instance for it to be true."  There are plenty of examples in human history of us being completely wrong about what we thought we observed.  And not just one-offs, en masse.  

I'm holding out for hard evidence.  I'm not opposed to it -- I'm quite open to it.  I just haven't seen it, and nobody has been able to produce it.

It's no different than sasquatch, which young brisket TOTALLY believed in and wanted to believe in.  Without hard evidence -- hair or tissue that can be DNA sampled -- no dice.  And the fact that this many people have been looking for this long and have NOT found any?  Yeah, I'm comfortable concluding that there is no sasquatch.  Which is a bummer, cuz I thought the idea was cool.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan
 

I agree, Sasquatch was cool but probably not true. The burden of proof can work either way. I’m 99.8% certain this will be out there in my lifetime and fairly soon. It’s all become overwhelming in favor of disclosure. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

34 minutes ago, ztejas said:

If you're working on a black budget project (or however you want to phrase it) and you decide to try and go on live TV and tell everyone about what you're working on what do you think happens to you? They give you a medal? 

This is just citing a lack of evidence as evidence.   Beyond that, SAP projects leak all the time, and not via word of mouth rumor mills.  Schematics, photos, test results, etc. They get sold to the Russians or Chinese or Israel because it’s valuable and people are greedy, or stolen because high-capacity adversaries dedicate incredible sums of money to stealing secrets and they’re good at it.  What Grusch posits exist is orders of magnitude more valuable than the chemical formula for radar-absorbing paint. 

30 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

Gary Nolan has pieces of alleged material that in his conclusion could not have been made on earth using metallurgy as we understand it. It just takes 1 instance for it to be true. Explain every sighting away 100% conclusively away… 

Ok. Gary Nolan is a medical researcher. So just take these samples to a few different excellent private and or commercial metallurgical researchers and have them take a look and publish the results.  Why hasn’t this happened? 

[ztejas 43450]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's no different than sasquatch, which young brisket TOTALLY believed in and wanted to believe in.  Without hard evidence -- hair or tissue that can be DNA sampled -- no dice.  And the fact that this many people have been looking for this long and have NOT found any?  Yeah, I'm comfortable concluding that there is no sasquatch.  Which is a bummer, cuz I thought the idea was cool.

Are you wanting to derail this thread, or...

[956 Worldwide 34715]

7 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

These are very narrow minded people. And because they are so narrow minded, they have no self awareness of that fact.

It produces a person who literally fills the role in this world of denying innovation: electricity, indoor plumbing, etc. What’s hilarious is that they often come from the world of science. It’s a script that happens over and over in history. History will judge them harshly. 

This isn’t like innovation at all.  Indoor plumbing works based on physical principles that have been well understood for millennia; any innovation is simply thinking of how to apply them or invest in infrastructure.  Advances in how to use electricity happened incrementally via rigorous and repeated testing. 
 

It can’t be said enough that there’s nothing to study when it comes to alien visitation; there’s nothing to apply the scientific method to. There are people and organizations doing rigorous and scientific searches for life off planet but their work is not headline grabbing and hasn’t revealed anything mind-blowing. 

[ztejas 43450]

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is just citing a lack of evidence as evidence.   Beyond that, SAP projects leak all the time, and not via word of mouth rumor mills.  Schematics, photos, test results, etc. They get sold to the Russians or Chinese or Israel because it’s valuable and people are greedy, or stolen because high-capacity adversaries dedicate incredible sums of money to stealing secrets and they’re good at it.  What Grusch posits exist is orders of magnitude more valuable than the chemical formula for radar-absorbing paint. 

So you think that something rumored to exist is less likely to exist than something you've never heard of? Because I promise you that there is plenty of shit that us, the Chinese and the Russians have either worked on in the past or are currently working on that you and I have no idea about. In the case of those projects it's safe to say that no one has come forward admitting to them. 

Also - who is to say the Russians or Chinese haven't stolen certain information? What is the motivation for them then publicizing that info?

People are more than capable of keeping secrets. In this case it is slowly being revealed to be a poorly kept one. 

[Deej 76793]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

They can cross the vast expanses of space, but need drones to get the details?

 

[Brisketexan 105142]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan
 
The burden of proof can work either way.

No. It literally CANNOT work “either way.” I never, ever have the burden to “prove the negative.” The person advancing the proposition (“we’re being visited by aliens”) has the burden of proving the proposition. That’s it. That’s how it works.
Like how the prosecution must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant has ZERO burden of proof. And the finder of fact doesn’t adjudicate “innocent” (the opposite of guilty), it adjudicates guilty (you proved your case) or not guilty (you failed to prove your case).
If someone has actual material that is unquestionably not of this world/not possible by our understanding of physics, then submit it to a credible, objective lab. I promise you, if MIT releases a report saying “this material does not match with any known physical materials on earth,” I’ll listen.

[Wally Fairway 5550]

45 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I'm comfortable concluding that there is no sasquatch.  Which is a bummer, cuz I thought the idea was cool.

We aren't quitters, did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[ztejas 43450]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If someone has actual material that is unquestionably not of this world/not possible by our understanding of physics, then submit it to a credible, objective lab. I promise you, if MIT releases a report saying “this material does not match with any known physical materials on earth,” I’ll listen.

Almost there.

https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2024-02-05/harvard-astronomy-professor-avi-loeb-thinks-he-has-new-evidence-of-alien-spacecraft

 

[Texasborn91 935]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No. It literally CANNOT work “either way.” I never, ever have the burden to “prove the negative.” The person advancing the proposition (“we’re being visited by aliens”) has the burden of proving the proposition. That’s it. That’s how it works.
Like how the prosecution must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant has ZERO burden of proof. And the finder of fact doesn’t adjudicate “innocent” (the opposite of guilty), it adjudicates guilty (you proved your case) or not guilty (you failed to prove your case).
If someone has actual material that is unquestionably not of this world/not possible by our understanding of physics, then submit it to a credible, objective lab. I promise you, if MIT releases a report saying “this material does not match with any known physical materials on earth,” I’ll listen.

Agree to disagree. Do you think Roswell was a weather balloon? 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

If you have an Audible subscription, the book Witness to Roswell is available for free. Listen to it on your commute. The number of witnesses supporting a flying saucer crash is overwhelming. Not just second hand witnesses, but many many first hand witnesses. Many of them these high ranking individuals that supposedly don't exist. The audio book is free if you have an audible subscription, so no reason not to check it out. 

[BamaATL 16593]

For those that think the universe is a a void, I offer this as a rebuttal (it's the miller-ulrey experiment):

 

That's it, conditions have to be correct to a degree, but that's it.  Life is everywhere.

 

As to it being intelligent and space faring, well that's another thing, but it's everywhere.  The problem for those believing in some vast conspiracy about cover ups it ignores the fact that in order for this to be a true, a species or several species would not only have the capability to travel here, conquering gravity, time and physics as we know it, but then they'd have to repeatedly crash or be shot down.  I hope you see the discrepancy in that logic.  

I firmly believe there is ample intelligent space faring life out there.  Firmly believe it, but the conspiracy stuff is crap.

Also, neutrinos can travel faster than the speed of light, so yes we know it's possible.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Humans still trip, hit their head, and die. Despite having evolved to walk for millions of years. To believe that a civilization capable of interstellar travel can't have oopsies is illogical. Furthermore, it assumes that the only ones capable of coming are their very best. How many of our attempts at exploring our planet have ended poorly? Didn't an idiot just recently implode ab idiotly designed submarine? Hubris is basically a law of the universe. 

[BamaATL 16593]

8 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Humans still trip, hit their head, and die. Despite having evolved to walk for millions of years. To believe that a civilization capable of interstellar travel can't have oopsies is illogical. Furthermore, it assumes that the only ones capable of coming are their very best. How many of our attempts at exploring our planet have ended poorly? Didn't an idiot just recently implode ab idiotly designed submarine? Hubris is basically a law of the universe. 

An accident, as in singular, maybe, over and over again, as the UFO community would have you believe, no way.  Boeing isn't running their programs.  

[HornOnTheBayou 8922]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

It's no different than sasquatch, which young brisket TOTALLY believed in and wanted to believe in.  Without hard evidence -- hair or tissue that can be DNA sampled -- no dice.  And the fact that this many people have been looking for this long and have NOT found any?  Yeah, I'm comfortable concluding that there is no sasquatch.  Which is a bummer, cuz I thought the idea was cool.

At least now we know where your brunette fetish comes from. So one mystery solved.

But I'm with you in the "Intelligent life is out there, but we haven't been visited yet" camp. But it really is a fun question to consider, because it crosses so many disciplines. In order to really analyze the question, we have to consider issues of biology, physics, philosophy, astronomy, religion, history, probability, linguistics, etc. I can't think of an academic discipline that isn't touched in this discussion and that is fun as hell.

[ztejas 43450]

21 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The problem for those believing in some vast conspiracy about cover ups it ignores the fact that in order for this to be a true, a species or several species would not only have the capability to travel here, conquering gravity, time and physics as we know it, but then they'd have to repeatedly crash or be shot down.  I hope you see the discrepancy in that logic.  

I hear this a lot and it's an anthropocentric fallacy imo. You're assuming that a species that can manipulate gravity to bend space time or travel through dimensions or portals or whatever would thus be less likely to have an accident/crash. Besides the fact that there's no reason to believe that - it's simply a broad assumption - there are plenty of reasons as to why an advanced craft could or would crash on Earth. If you took a Boeing 737 and flew it on, say, the moon, it probably isn't going to handle the same. 

A similar thing you hear a lot is "well if aliens did come here they'd obviously come here to conquer us or exterminate us and steal all of our resources". Why? Because that's what we would do? That doesn't necessarily hold any weight. 

Skeptics too often come across as uncreative and myopic. Go look at "future predictions" that we as a species made in the past and then examine how far off some of them wound up being. It's the same idea - trying to predict the future without being able to concretely know anything about it.

Or - here's another good analogy - think of all of the things that x indigenous civilization believed about technologically advanced or differentiated explorers/conquerors. When the Spanish landed in wherever (don't want to list a specific location or indigenous people because it might not be accurate) they thought that the men on horses were one creature. Some of them thought they were Gods. Imagine what they thought when cannons and muskets started going off. 

Edited October 16 by ztejas

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

9 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

An accident, as in singular, maybe, over and over again, as the UFO community would have you believe, no way.  Boeing isn't running their programs.  

What if we are dealing with some sort of Von Neumann Probe? We crash spacecraft all the time in the interest of exploration. It's proven to work. Also, if a species has been advanced enough for long enough, who is to say we aren't seeing the equivalent of teenagers taking their parents' ships out for a joyride? Once a technology becomes common enough, commoners use it. 

[BearMace 2206]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Almost there.

https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2024-02-05/harvard-astronomy-professor-avi-loeb-thinks-he-has-new-evidence-of-alien-spacecraft

 

Almost there. Except that was back in February and no amazing findings yet. Oh, and that part where literally in your link it links to an article that does a much better job explaining why it was probably a regular ass comet and explains its strange behavior, but whatever, we're the idiots.

https://www.science.org/content/article/mystery-our-first-interstellar-visitor-may-be-solved

Edited October 16 by BearMace

[BamaATL 16593]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I hear this a lot and it's an anthropocentric fallacy imo. You're assuming that a species that can manipulate gravity to bend space time or travel through dimensions or portals or whatever would thus be less likely to have an accident/crash. Besides the fact that there's no reason to believe that - it's simply a broad assumption - there are plenty of reasons as to why an advanced craft could or would crash on Earth. If you took a Boeing 737 and flew it on, say, the moon, it probably isn't going to handle the same. 

A similar thing you hear a lot is "well if aliens did come here they'd obviously come here to conquer us or exterminate us and steal all of our resources". Why? Because that's what we would do? That doesn't necessarily hold any weight. 

Skeptics too often come across as uncreative and myopic. Go look at "future predictions" that we as a species made in the past and then examine how far off some of them wound up being. It's the same idea - trying to predict the future without being able to concretely know anything about it.

Alright, I'll meet you half way, I'll give a bit if you can acknowledge that most of the UFO community is in fact a grift, professional "aliens" people that profit off their "discoveries" and media appearances, book writing, and conventions, etc.  Seems to me, the foremost "experts" in this field seem to have a financial motive.  

I'm willing acknowledge that stretching the limits of my own imagination is real as well.  Anything is possible.  However, I tend to put far more stock into those in the academic world.   

[956 Worldwide 34715]

26 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

For those that think the universe is a a void, I offer this as a rebuttal (it's the miller-ulrey experiment):

 

That's it, conditions have to be correct to a degree, but that's it.  Life is everywhere.

 

As to it being intelligent and space faring, well that's another thing, but it's everywhere.  The problem for those believing in some vast conspiracy about cover ups it ignores the fact that in order for this to be a true, a species or several species would not only have the capability to travel here, conquering gravity, time and physics as we know it, but then they'd have to repeatedly crash or be shot down.  I hope you see the discrepancy in that logic.  

I firmly believe there is ample intelligent space faring life out there.  Firmly believe it, but the conspiracy stuff is crap.

Also, neutrinos can travel faster than the speed of light, so yes we know it's possible.  

I also think that there is life out there, and probably some sort of space faring life.  I think the factors of time and speed and physics make it exceedingly unlikely it’s visited us.

The neutrinos faster than light was later shown to be a calculation error:

https://www.science.org/content/article/once-again-physicists-debunk-faster-light-neutrinos

Aliens with FTL travel are a fun sci-fi device,  but no more credible than aliens who have a philosophers stone to turn lead to gold. It’s just not how the universe or its building blocks work. 

 

[ztejas 43450]

4 minutes ago, BearMace said:

Almost there. Except that was back in February and no amazing findings yet. Oh, and that part where literally in your link it links to an article that does a much better job explaining why it was probably a regular ass comet and explains its strange behavior, but whatever, we're the idiots.

https://www.science.org/content/article/mystery-our-first-interstellar-visitor-may-be-solved

Simmer down. I think Loeb is kind of a goofball but he's a Harvard professor trying to do exactly what Brisket said and pushing the envelope in some different directions. He isn't employed by Liberty or aggy.

5 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Alright, I'll meet you half way, I'll give a bit if you can acknowledge that most of the UFO community is in fact a grift, professional "aliens" people that profit off their "discoveries" and media appearances, book writing, and conventions, etc.  Seems to me, the foremost "experts" in this field seem to have a financial motive.  

I don't know what % I'd assign but yes, there is a ton of shit that you have to sift through to find the good or compelling stuff. In my personal experience, the more in the weeds you get the more you can identify the BS and pause and look into stuff more in depth that piques your interest. Feel like I have kind of a pattern recognition at this point.

The folks claiming to be abducted, for example, I find rather problematic and I'd say 90% of them are full of shit (although I don't necessarily disbelieve in abduction entirely). 

The photos, videos, testimonials from former military/government or people that frankly had nothing to gain or obviously weren't trying to grift is the good stuff. And there is a fuck ton of it out there. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Or - here's another good analogy - think of all of the things that x indigenous civilization believed about technologically advanced or differentiated explorers/conquerors. When the Spanish landed in wherever (don't want to list a specific location or indigenous people because it might not be accurate) they thought that the men on horses were one creature. Some of them thought they were Gods. Imagine what they thought when cannons and muskets started going off. 

I find this analogy interesting. Some past civilizations observed phenomena outside of their experience.  They attempted to explain it via the supernatural or implausible, and it turned out to be flesh and blood people from plant earth using technology they hadn’t seen before and they had serious errors in perception (combining man and horse into one).

It is a good analogy just not in support of the argument. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

So your saying aliens seeded life on earth?

[Deej 76793]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If you have an Audible subscription, the book Witness to Roswell is available for free. Listen to it on your commute. The number of witnesses supporting a flying saucer crash is overwhelming. Not just second hand witnesses, but many many first hand witnesses. Many of them these high ranking individuals that supposedly don't exist. The audio book is free if you have an audible subscription, so no reason not to check it out. 

Reading is hard. 

[ztejas 43450]

18 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I find this analogy interesting. Some past civilizations observed phenomena outside of their experience.  They attempted to explain it via the supernatural or implausible, and it turned out to be flesh and blood people from plant earth using technology they hadn’t seen before and they had serious errors in perception (combining man and horse into one).

It is a good analogy just not in support of the argument. 

I'm not rehashing for the millionth time why UAP/UFO however you want to describe it is not human technology simply being misunderstood. Plenty of people here have laid it out for you and you are either too stubborn to listen or you simply don't want to do the research and properly inform yourself. 

The Aztecs or whoever the fuck quickly figured out that the man and the horse were not the same creature. Shortly after that they figured out that Cortez was not a God. When do you think the "big reveal" is going to be that this is all just shit being cooked up at Lockheed? Because it's been 80 years now and you have dozens of high-ranking military and government personnel explicitly telling you that it isn't our shit. 

Give me a break. 

Also - you're completely twisting the point of the analogy. The idea is that when you are presented with something completely unknown or foreign to you your initial read on what it is is often incorrect. So people claiming "well if they were aliens they wouldn't do A or they wouldn't do B or they couldn't do C" are basically just talking out of their ass. What we do know is that when we take everything that we know as a connected, globalized society and compare it to the phenomenon that has been witnessed for decades in various manner it is unexplainable. 

Edited October 16 by ztejas

[956 Worldwide 34715]

Solid proof of ET life and technology on earth would be the most important announcement in human history, the only thing that could be bigger would be proof of life after death or the existence of God(s).  The most implausible part of the theory is the idea that the federal government and defense contractors kept it under wraps (for no particularly good reason) for 80 years. 

[Dbeasy 15051]

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

Alright, I'll meet you half way, I'll give a bit if you can acknowledge that most of the UFO community is in fact a grift, professional "aliens" people that profit off their "discoveries" and media appearances, book writing, and conventions, etc.  Seems to me, the foremost "experts" in this field seem to have a financial motive.  

I'm willing acknowledge that stretching the limits of my own imagination is real as well.  Anything is possible.  However, I tend to put far more stock into those in the academic world.   

There is no question that 99% of the ufo people out there are grifters. That, we should be able to agree upon. 

Rather than UFO’s crashing, how about Men In Black style aliens living amongst us in disguise.  

 

[Texasborn91 935]

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Solid proof of ET life and technology on earth would be the most important announcement in human history, the only thing that could be bigger would be proof of life after death or the existence of God(s).  The most implausible part of the theory is the idea that the federal government and defense contractors kept it under wraps (for no particularly good reason) for 80 years. 

The reasoning is that the government is scared of mass hysteria. They will also not admit there is something in our air space and there isn’t a fucking thing they can do about it. Also if we did get out hands on advanced tech we would Kermit under wraps to try and exploit it, we cannot back engineer this shit so the govt keeps it compartmentalized and under wraps and breaks it out every 20 years or so to see if we have advanced enough to make any progress  

 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

2 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

The reasoning is that the government is scared of mass hysteria. They will also not admit there is something in our air space and there isn’t a fucking thing they can do about it. Also if we did get out hands on advanced tech we would Kermit under wraps to try and exploit it, we cannot back engineer this shit so the govt keeps it compartmentalized and under wraps and breaks it out every 20 years or so to see if we have advanced enough to make any progress  

 

The counterpoint to this is that Donald J Trump was president for four years and we all know he would have shown everyone the aliens if they were there. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21073]

50 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So your saying aliens seeded life on earth?

Whatever crud was attached to the comet or meteorite that spawned life on Earth was a Von Neumann probe created by some other unknowable species of assholes and we are just the current iteration and someday we (or whatever "we" and our DNA is by that time) will launch our own variation on the theme.  It's our flawed and myopic perception of time/time scales that makes this seem improbable upon initial consideration. 

Rinse and repeat. 

Edited October 16 by Prepuce of Doom

[ztejas 43450]

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The most implausible part of the theory is the idea that the federal government and defense contractors kept it under wraps (for no particularly good reason) for 80 years. 

They haven't done a great job at keeping it under wraps that's what we're trying to tell you. It's all out there you just have to be open to believing some different stuff than you're used to or maybe you need to see or hear some things that you haven't yet. 

I'm sorry if I come across as a dick it's just frustrating because it's a niche topic and I feel like the most vociferous deniers or skeptics typically have spent very little time doing the proper research into it. 

Also - I don't claim to know what has been kept under wraps or what it all is. That aspect still seems pretty nebulous and shrouded. I am extremely convinced that whatever it is is NOT flesh and blood humans like you and I have been used to seeing our entire lives. 

I promise you that there is shit out there that would make you pause and reassess some things if you went in with an open mind. 

[Texasborn91 935]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The counterpoint to this is that Donald J Trump was president for four years and we all know he would have shown everyone the aliens if they were there. 

I seriously doubt they told him shit. Presidents do not get told this information. 
 

please watch the unsolved mysteries episode on Netflix about Roswell. It’s incredible. 

[ztejas 43450]

1 minute ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Whatever crud was attached to the comet or meteorite that spawned life on Earth was a Von Neumann probe created by some other unknowable species of assholes and we are just the current iteration and someday we (or whatever "we" are by that time) will launch our own variation on the theme.  It's our flawed and myopic perception of time/time scales that makes this seem improbable upon initial consideration. 

Rinse and repeat. 

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The counterpoint to this is that Donald J Trump was president for four years and we all know he would have shown everyone the aliens if they were there. 

This is not shit that they show the president when he gets elected.

Anymore, at least. There are some rumors about Nixon. And they had JFK killed for adjacent-ish reasons.

[ztejas 43450]

Just now, Texasborn91 said:

please watch the unsolved mysteries episode on Netflix about Roswell. It’s incredible. 

Unsolved Mysteries is baby formula. Have you seen Moment of Contact? 

[Tailgate 3021]

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The counterpoint to this is that Donald J Trump was president for four years and we all know he would have shown everyone the aliens if they were there. 

Presidents are temporary employees and treated as such by high ranking military and the information shared with them.

[Texasborn91 935]

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Unsolved Mysteries is baby formula. Have you seen Moment of Contact? 

I’ve seen all of James fox docs. Incredible. 

Edited October 16 by Texasborn91

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Solid proof of ET life and technology on earth would be the most important announcement in human history, the only thing that could be bigger would be proof of life after death or the existence of God(s).  The most implausible part of the theory is the idea that the federal government and defense contractors kept it under wraps (for no particularly good reason) for 80 years. 

The *for no particularly good reason* part is the flaw  here. It's not exactly disputed history that the US government created Project Blue Book with the intention of misleading our Soviet adversaries. There are plenty of documents out there that also confirm that part of the mission of Blue Book was to obscure things we couldn't explain by flooding us with things we could.

So there's one good reason, given the politics at the time. 

But if you assume for the sake of argument that we somehow recovered an interterestrial craft of some sort, what would the consequences be? Obviously we would try our best to reverse engineer it. What sort of secrets would we unlock? Anything with the capability for interplanetary travel would obviously need to have an energy source that is pretty impressive. More so than anything we have that us publicly known. And the only things we know about that fit that description also happen to be pretty handy for making bombs out of. 

Any source of energy that is dense enough to break the laws of physics as we know the  can be weaponized. 

Edited October 16 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[Keef 764]

I think the issue the UFO crowd has with the skeptics is what more do you want? This is clearly a sensitive issue for the USG, both historically and now. If I asked you ten years ago what “compelling evidence” would look like, the vast majority of people would have said things that are exactly in line with what we have. Public comments by cabinet level officials, disclosure of videos captured by the military with multiple sensors and unimpeachable witnesses, high level spooks testifying publicly and under oath, reporting in the New York Times and reports that congress is getting much more details in a confidential setting, and current and former military commanders going on record. We’ve come so far in just a short period of time. 
 

Like, they aren’t going to trot out the craft and the bodies on CSPAN. I started paying attention to this issue in earnest following the New York Times report. It seems clear to me that the level of reports and the frequency of them are increasing. Just this week, the WSJ reported that UFOs with a mother ship hung out for weeks over a military base and the president received briefings on it. And no one really cared.

All this wouldn’t be going on without the tacit approval of the pentagon (the public whistleblowers are all very much government men and former spooks). No one has died. Lou Elizondo is on a big book tour. So it all seems very intentional to me on the part of the USG. There is some angle to it all and the only real conclusion I can come to is this is either gradual desensitizing for eventual disclosure or an oddly public disinformation campaign against China/Russia. 
 

If I was expecting the former, this is exactly how I’d do it, especially if there were elements of bad behavior on the part of the USG (which surely there was). I don’t think we have enough info on the second part, but it’s foolish to dismiss it. 

[Victor Lazlo 1777]

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm sorry if I come across as a dick it's just frustrating because it's a niche topic and I feel like the most vociferous deniers or skeptics typically have spent very little time doing the proper research into it. 

Get a hold of yourself, dude. You do come across dickish to people that don’t agree with your ideas.

Vociferous deniers and skeptics? Of course, most sane, logical people are.

Just because you’ve seemingly spent an inordinate amount of time doing “proper research” - whatever that is - doesn’t make your fantasy of aliens on Earth any more true or plausible than the inverse.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Show us some extraordinary proof.

Anything that you’ve claimed or linked to so far doesn’t meet that standard .

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

3 hours ago, Keef said:

I think the issue the UFO crowd has with the skeptics is what more do you want? 

More to the point, what more do you want? The skeptics want hard evidence, extraordinary proof because that's how science has worked for forever.  Why do you feel the need to be validated by the belief of the non-believers? What does our relenting to the free Audibles, Netflix shows, YouTube videos, and vibes earn you that you don't already have? 

[Keef 764]

39 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

More to the point, what more do you want? The skeptics want hard evidence, extraordinary proof because that's how science has worked for forever.  Why do you feel the need to be validated by the belief of the non-believers? What does our relenting to the free Audibles, Netflix shows, YouTube videos, and vibes earn you that you don't already have? 

Of course I want more.  I'm human like everyone else.  However, I think in light of this being a matter of significant national security concerns, the USG, both through official statements and through people who I think are strategic intermediaries like Elizondo, Gallaudet, Nell, and Grusch, has actually admitted a great deal. 

And this is a fucking internet message board.  The entire purpose of these things is for people to post articles and argue over random shit.  I think it's enjoyable to hear the differing perspectives, and while I don't agree with all of them, @956 Worldwide has brought up points in the past on this very subject that have shaped how I think about it.

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

That's fair enough, there just seems to be a lot of "do your own research" posts with an air of incredulity that might be better spent on the subject. I'm all for constructive conversation. 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

Just noting that we are enlisting further conspiracies as a necessity of making the first conspiracy more plausible. By my account, we are up to three nesting dolls that have been explicitly invoked:

1. Firm evidence of ET visitation to earth exists and has been concealed for generations by the federal government. 

2. Keeping a secret of this magnitude requires a cabal/deep state of government insiders who illegally and unconstitutionally run programs outside the knowledge of the nation’s highest elected authorities.

3. To keep the existence of this cabal/deep state secret it was forced to assassinate a U.S. president and pin the blame on a stooge. 
 

It’s conspiracy all the way down, and citing a conspiracy to make another one more plausible is the opposite of evidence. And it reflects the general trend where UFO disclosure public figures gradually slide into more and more outlandish claims to reinforce the original one (psychic powers, inter-dimensional spirits, shape-shifting, etc.)

[956 Worldwide 34715]

5 hours ago, Keef said:

I think the issue the UFO crowd has with the skeptics is what more do you want?

The stuff.  We have interstellar fragments? Ok, turn them over to CalTech or MIT and publish the results for peer review. A whistleblower knows where the craft is? Ok, where. What facility, what day did you see it. 

[BabaYaga 15298]

11 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

There is no question that 99% of the ufo people out there are grifters. That, we should be able to agree upon. 

Rather than UFO’s crashing, how about Men In Black style aliens living amongst us in disguise.  

 

[Keef 764]

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The stuff.  We have interstellar fragments? Ok, turn them over to CalTech or MIT and publish the results for peer review. A whistleblower knows where the craft is? Ok, where. What facility, what day did you see it. 

I mean, fair.  But you're not going to get it.  The whistleblowers who have come forward have allegedly provided all this to members of congress and the IG in classified settings, but they're not going to broadcast this stuff or permit it to be in any danger of leaking to the Chinese and Russians.  Look at how quickly nukes made it over to the USSR.  They're behaving exactly how you would if you held super advanced tech.

And on the prior post, I don't think you need #3.  And #1 and #2 are precisely what some of the public folks are allegeding.  Ness, Grusch, Elizando, John Ratcliffe, the Standford scienet, etc. are all serious people.  Coupled with the videos, radar and sensor readings, and some of the testimonies, you have a compelling case.

So I get that folks need and want more, but I think it has to be one of two scenarios based on the USG's tact.  It's either (i) exactly what they say it is or (ii) it's a massive psyop to cover up some other advancement.  And in either case, the information that gets disseminated down to the proletariat is all going to be strategic and released only if it is in the best interests of the USG to do so.  

[Texasborn91 935]

33 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Just noting that we are enlisting further conspiracies as a necessity of making the first conspiracy more plausible. By my account, we are up to three nesting dolls that have been explicitly invoked:

1. Firm evidence of ET visitation to earth exists and has been concealed for generations by the federal government. 

2. Keeping a secret of this magnitude requires a cabal/deep state of government insiders who illegally and unconstitutionally run programs outside the knowledge of the nation’s highest elected authorities.

3. To keep the existence of this cabal/deep state secret it was forced to assassinate a U.S. president and pin the blame on a stooge. 
 

It’s conspiracy all the way down, and citing a conspiracy to make another one more plausible is the opposite of evidence. And it reflects the general trend where UFO disclosure public figures gradually slide into more and more outlandish claims to reinforce the original one (psychic powers, inter-dimensional spirits, shape-shifting, etc.)

They just had a congressional hearing with regards to #2