UAP Pentagon Report (UFOs, Foo Fighters, Commie Drones)

[Trey3216 15,345]

17 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

And you're so opened minded that what little brain you have has fallen out.

You're the type of guy that totally believed there was a Loch Ness Monster because of one grainy photo.  Why?  Because we don't know everything that could be out there, dude!   And then some smart, scientist, narrow minded person said, "Ya know, that kinda looks like a whale dick."  And guess what?  It really does look exactly like a whale dick.  You're the guy who got fooled by whale dick.  History will judge you not at all because history doesn't care about people who have wild theories that they can't back up with evidence. 

I think it's telling how I jump in to jokingly discuss how illogical it is to believe aliens have made it to Earth and are fucking around and then I get dogpiled.  Seems like you true believers can't handle even the slightest criticism.  Met a lot of religious folks who are the same way.  Might want to think about that.  It's absolutely fine to believe in aliens or whatever.  It's one of those things you'll never be able to prove one way or the other.  I really don't care, I just find it funny.  If it's leading you and others to start smugly calling folks narrow minded and the like, maybe it's you that has the problem.  

 

It's pretty telling that since the dawn of civilization and recorded history, the large majority of us have some sort of belief in deity/higher power/outside or unknown presence.  It's almost like it's built into the fiber of our being.  Innate.   There are reasons for that that none of us know, but the search for the answers of that is as scientific as anything we do on an ordinary basis.  The Why is a question we will always, and should always ask.  

 

Yet, there will always be people ready to pile on for the narcissistic joy of hoping they are right just so the other people are wrong.  That's innate in our species as well.  Just depends which road you decide to walk.   

[Brisketexan 105,082]

7 hours ago, Keef said:

I think the issue the UFO crowd has with the skeptics is what more do you want?

The skeptics on this thread (and by the way, the term "skeptics" is loaded as hell.  I'm not a "skeptic" - I am not "questioning or doubting accepted opinions/facts."  I am someone who believes in evidence-based reasoning and a strong burden of proof tied to the nature of the conclusion/position being asserted) are not being mysterious or unreasonable.  What we "want" (that is, what we would observe and deem sufficient evidence to establish the claim) is stated below:

3 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

The skeptics want hard evidence, extraordinary proof because that's how science has worked for forever. 

 

4 hours ago, Victor Lazlo said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Show us some extraordinary proof.

Anything that you’ve claimed or linked to so far doesn’t meet that standard .

These things.  Physical evidence, validated and confirmed by credible sources (I am not a credible source -- if you gave me a fancy metal fragment, I couldn't tell you if it came off an alien spacecraft, a crashed fighter jet, or a junk yard).

And yes, here's how y'all are NOT helping your case:

1 hour ago, Keef said:

I mean, fair.  But you're not going to get it.  The whistleblowers who have come forward have allegedly provided all this to members of congress and the IG in classified settings, but they're not going to broadcast this stuff or permit it to be in any danger of leaking to the Chinese and Russians. 

 

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 

1. Firm evidence of ET visitation to earth exists and has been concealed for generations by the federal government. 

2. Keeping a secret of this magnitude requires a cabal/deep state of government insiders who illegally and unconstitutionally run programs outside the knowledge of the nation’s highest elected authorities.

3. To keep the existence of this cabal/deep state secret it was forced to assassinate a U.S. president and pin the blame on a stooge. 

The case presented by "ETs are visiting earth" advocates use "they" a whole lot -- referring to shadowy groups concealing things, etc....including the nesting doll conspiracy summarized by 956.  

Sorry, conspiracy theories don't convince me of, well, anything.  It ends up being the approach of "the absence of evidence IS the evidence!  They are purposefully hiding it, and THAT'S how you know it's real!"  Nope.  That's not working.

And as for the "evidence" we have....some of it absolutely raised my eyebrow and gets me listening (modern videos/photos, statements/recorded transmissions by fighter interceptor pilots).  If we want to go with the metaphor of a court case, the evidence presented absolutely would be sufficient to survive a "motion for summary judgment."  I would not dismiss your case saying "there is no question of material fact presented."  But surviving summary judgment doesn't mean you proved your case.  It means that there is more than a scintilla of evidence in support of your case -- and I agree, there's more than a scintilla of evidence.

But most of the rest of the evidence....well, I've read and seen countless accounts of angels and demons and such from the 1300s.  The story at that time absolutely was "there are so many accounts of angels and demons on earth fighting their battles, how can you not believe that?"  Yet they were all delusional bullshit, mistaken identification, etc.  I also review evidence for a living.  And I'm here to tell you that eyewitness testimony....is shit.  It is not reliable, certainly not for something as extraordinary as this.

When planes crash, there are debris fields.  Ordinary people can grab some debris.  There is also photographic and video evidence of the debris field, and bodies of passengers.  I'm just holding the UFO crowd to the same standard as the "plane crashes are real" crowd.  Show me the debris, show me the bodies.  And have that verified by someone who actually knows metallurgy or somesuch.  I'm not being unreasonable in setting that high burden of proof for what is perhaps the most extraordinary claim in human history OTHER than "God exists."

Edited October 16 by Brisketexan

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

Also to @Brisketexan’s point— it’s been said on this thread that two non-U.S. government figures (Gary Nolan and Avi Loeb) possess samples of interstellar or non-human origin metal samples.  Is it too much to ask to follow the lead of the notoriously open and transparent Vatican and hand samples over to independent labs and experts like the Shroud of Turin?  If they are confident in what they have, then they would welcome this analysis? 

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

Entirely relevant to this thread and the discussion of confusing and unexplainable things being picked up by military sensors. 
 

https://www.twz.com/air/britestorm-miniature-electronic-warfare-system-can-allow-small-drones-to-create-big-ghost-formations

Quote

As The War Zone has highlighted in the past with regard to BriteCloud, DRFM’s signal mimicry can take the form of entire fleets of illusionary targets, not only confusing, but overwhelming radar operators. Integrated onto aerial drones or other uncrewed platforms, the new BriteStorm jammers could also be sent into a target area from multiple different vectors at once, creating additional problems for enemy defenders trying to prioritize their resources.

Quote

It’s interesting to point out here that the U.S. Navy has been pushing ahead in recent years with plans for a similar-sounding distributed and deeply networked electronic warfare ecosystem that includes uncrewed decoys and other nodes capable of mimicking friendly forces to protect them from threats and deceive opponents. The Navy has referred to this concept in the past as the Netted Emulation of Multi-Element Signature against Integrated Sensors, or NEMESIS, which The War Zone was firstto really report on. We have highlighted in the past that some of these developments might help explain some number of sightings of so-called unexplained aerial phenomena (UAP).

 

Edited October 16 by 956 Worldwide

[Brisketexan 105,082]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also to @Brisketexan’s point— it’s been said on this thread that two non-U.S. government figures (Gary Nolan and Avi Loeb) possess samples of interstellar or non-human origin metal samples.  Is it too much to ask to follow the lead of the notoriously open and transparent Vatican and hand samples over to independent labs and experts like the Shroud of Turin?  If they are confident in what they have, then they would welcome this analysis? 

You raise something that's equally puzzling to me -- you mention "non-U.S. government figures."  The "UFOs are ETs" crowd suffers from bias arising from the fact that they think that the US if functionally the only force/actor on the world stage.

There are 190+ countries in the world.  7 billion people.  So, if ETs are visiting us, it makes logical sense that they are visiting people and countries OUTSIDE our borders.  So....all 189 other countries are in on the conspiracy of silence, too?  Even the ones run by crackpot dictators who would LOVE the publicity of showing off an alien craft that crashed in their country?  Hell, let's just go with the Americas -- Canada, Mexico, El Salvador, Brazil, Ecuador, all of em.....their lips are sealed?  The other 6.65 billion people are in on it, too?  None of them has recovered a piece of a crashed alien craft to get to real researchers?

All of the explanations of "there's no physical evidence because the US gov't represses it all" assumes that the US government literally controls the entire world.  We're powerful, we're the hegemon, I get that.....but if a craft crashed in Uganda back in the day, you think Idi Amin wasn't gonna show it off?

So, yeah.....the absence of evidence where one would expect to see it (that is, from the entire rest of this big planet) is a fact that weighs AGAINST there being any ET visitation.

And here's the thing: I WANT to believe.  I DO believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in this universe (because math -- 200 billion trillion stars exist).  I expect that there are things about that life and its technology that are beyond even our capability of imagination - that is, I believe that it is POSSIBLE that such life has visited earth.  I'm just awaiting concrete proof - that is, physical evidence.

[Keef 764]

I think we'll agree to disagree.  We're having two public congressional hearings and lots is going on behind the scenes because congressmen think the Pentagon isn't being forthcoming. The Schumer bill is really incredible reading and it is being fought by the defense lobby - why?  The US government (and many other governments) takes this issue quite seriously and is openly stating there are numerous encounters with crafts we can't explain.  Those are official admissions by the US government. 

So, the choices are only: (i) the crafts are ours (some dating back many decades) and we made huge technological leaps, we decided to test them on our military, and the reports that are being released about our ineptitude to deter them are disinfo to cover up US covert projects; (ii) Russia/China/whoever has lept past us massively; (iii) all historical reports are attributable to misidentification or our sensors (in many cases, multiple sensors, radar, and visual) being shitty; or (iv) non-human. 

I've cast my lot on (i) and (iv).  Others seem to like (ii) or (iii).  It is what it is.  But this is a self admitted big problem presently for our military and just because some folks don't think its (iv) doesn't mean we get to blow past the question.  The evidence for (ii) seems quite weak and we'd have a big problem if it were true and while (iii) undoubtedly explains most, it doesn't explain a small subset of the truly interesting cases.  I think the evidence for (i) is fairly strong (Ben Horowitz recently stated someone in the executive branch told him we classified whole wings of physics in the 60s/70s) and we successfully hid stealth technology for quite some time, so there is precedent. (iv), while incredible, has the support of lots of credible/serious people on both sides of the aisle with access to a lot of the classified data and footage that normal folks simply don't.  You have to give that some credence.

[SpiralOut 1,813]

5 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

It's pretty telling that since the dawn of civilization and recorded history, the large majority of us have some sort of belief in deity/higher power/outside or unknown presence.  It's almost like it's built into the fiber of our being.  Innate.

Eh, I don't know about that.  The smarter humans get, the less than hang onto ideas like that.  Ancient peoples worshipped the Sun.  No one worships the Sun anymore.  Except maybe those people who tan their buttholes to increase their Chakra or whatever.  The current trend worldwide is less and less people believing in God, a higher power, etc.  My argument would be, people tend to believe what they're told.  When people didn't know jack about shit, some guy said he had the answers and it came from the Sun, the dude who controls the lightning who we'll call Zeus, or the guy who controls death who looks like a dog that we'll call Anubis.  No one is listening to Joe Blow Caveman.  He's just a dude.  But they might listen if he's spins a story about a supernatural power backing him up.  So people get taught to believe in a higher power.  Do those kids who get lost in the woods and grow up with wolves and never get human contact or civilizing believe in a higher power?  Do you catch them building shrines in the forest out of squirrel skulls?  You don't.   

And of course, it could just be a survival instinct like how people are afraid of the dark because it used to be sabertooth tigers were roaming around and not being able to see them was kinda a big deal.  Realizing you're insignificant and vulnerable compared to the world and that the whole thing is much bigger than you probably fosters community, cooperativeness, and less risk taking.  

The tough part is, there are no other truly self-aware species for us to compare ourselves to.  If cows all of a sudden became self-aware, would they believe in Moo-Moo the God of all Beeves who will lead them to endless green fields and salt licks?      

[BabaYaga 15,289]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Entirely relevant to this thread and the discussion of confusing and unexplainable things being picked up by military sensors. 
 

https://www.twz.com/air/britestorm-miniature-electronic-warfare-system-can-allow-small-drones-to-create-big-ghost-formations

 

As posted earlier, the laser-pointer effect.  It's ever there!  No, it's over there!  It's defying the natural laws.....or, it's an illusion.  Utilizing the oldest form of asymmetrical warfare known to man.  

The closet the world ever got to nuclear annihilation was in 1983.  Russian military command, specifically Stanislav Petrov tracked inbound US ballistic missiles heading for Russia.  Having a cool head and notating certain anomalies, he devised that is was an incorrect reading....AFTER....the missiles were supposed to arrive.  It's debatable whether he notified his superiors, but his giant mammoth balls saved the entire globe in NOT following protocol and launching their own.  It was a bad computer reading.  The point being in this day of tech, warfare takes the forms of ones and zero's, but the tactics haven't changed:  Obfuscation, deception, and decoys still remain effective.  If you can blind your enemy or make them think something is there that isn't, you have the advantage.  

AND.....I hope UFO's are real.....

[Brisketexan 105,082]

7 minutes ago, SpiralOut said:

No one worships the Sun anymore.  Except maybe those people who tan their buttholes to increase their Chakra or whatever. 

So.....maybe I just think it looks better with a nice tan.  Didja ever think of that, smart guy?

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

AND.....I hope UFO's are real.....

Weird way to tell us you're hoping for some butt stuff, but you do you.  We're in the nest in the trust tree around here.

[Dbeasy 15,042]

If people are open to believing in a higher power but not aliens, or vice versa, I find that really odd. 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

If people are open to believing in a higher power but not aliens, or vice versa, I find that really odd. 

Well, there's a bit about "faith" in there that's important.  If you believe in a higher power, but you admit that your basis is "faith," and not "I believe in God because of empirical evidence and proof," I respect that honest conclusion.  Because it includes the understanding that faith is a belief in something DESPITE the lack of proof.

Seriously, I was thinking about this thread and the "doubting Thomas" verses in the Book of John just this morning, because when it comes to aliens, I am definitely a Doubting Thomas:

 

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

Those verses are a great explanation of the difference between a conclusion reached on faith ("blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed") and those reached by evidence-based reasoning ("Because you have seen me, you have believed").  The other apostles -- who were Thomas's friends, and who he trusted -- TOLD him that they'd seen Jesus after his death.  But their testimony was not enough.  He needed objective, physical evidence.  As do I, on this most extraordinary of subjects.

In summary, I don't think that believing one thing as a matter of faith, but not believing another thing because of lack of evidence is necessarily irreconcilable.  You just have to be honest with yourself and others if you're reaching your conclusion based on faith, or on reasoning.  And, you shouldn't be angry or annoyed with others if they don't share your faith.  You CAN get annoyed with others when they do not apply evidence-based reasoning.

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

In summary, I don't think that believing one thing as a matter of faith, but not believing another thing because of lack of evidence is necessarily irreconcilable.  You just have to be honest with yourself and others if you're reaching your conclusion based on faith, or on reasoning.  And, you shouldn't be angry or annoyed with others if they don't share your faith.  You CAN get annoyed with others when they do not apply evidence-based reasoning.

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And here's the thing: I WANT to believe.  I DO believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in this universe (because math -- 200 billion trillion stars exist).  I expect that there are things about that life and its technology that are beyond even our capability of imagination - that is, I believe that it is POSSIBLE that such life has visited earth.  I'm just awaiting concrete proof - that is, physical evidence.

Brisket, I 100% agree with you on the bolded statement about being honest with yourself and others if you are reaching your conclusions based on faith or reasoning.

This is the only reason I am going to again bring up that it is faith, not reasoning or math, that leads you to believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in the world. Yes the target population of 200 billion trillion stars is super duper big but we still have no idea what the multiplier is for probability of life. It could be 1 in a hundred chance, meaning lots of life, or it could be 1 / 100 trillion trillion trillion, meaning almost certainly not any other life. Any assessment that there is likely or not likely to be life is grounded in some kind of faith.

I am definitely pro "I want there to be life" but if you ask if I think there is other life out there, it's a big old shrug of the shoulders.

[Rip76 4,925]

31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Because it includes the understanding that faith is a belief in something DESPITE the lack of proof.

This is very true.

Like this Saturday.  I have faith we are are going to kick Georgia's ass, despite the lack of proof.

[Texasborn91 935]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You raise something that's equally puzzling to me -- you mention "non-U.S. government figures."  The "UFOs are ETs" crowd suffers from bias arising from the fact that they think that the US if functionally the only force/actor on the world stage.

There are 190+ countries in the world.  7 billion people.  So, if ETs are visiting us, it makes logical sense that they are visiting people and countries OUTSIDE our borders.  So....all 189 other countries are in on the conspiracy of silence, too?  Even the ones run by crackpot dictators who would LOVE the publicity of showing off an alien craft that crashed in their country?  Hell, let's just go with the Americas -- Canada, Mexico, El Salvador, Brazil, Ecuador, all of em.....their lips are sealed?  The other 6.65 billion people are in on it, too?  None of them has recovered a piece of a crashed alien craft to get to real researchers?

All of the explanations of "there's no physical evidence because the US gov't represses it all" assumes that the US government literally controls the entire world.  We're powerful, we're the hegemon, I get that.....but if a craft crashed in Uganda back in the day, you think Idi Amin wasn't gonna show it off?

So, yeah.....the absence of evidence where one would expect to see it (that is, from the entire rest of this big planet) is a fact that weighs AGAINST there being any ET visitation.

And here's the thing: I WANT to believe.  I DO believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in this universe (because math -- 200 billion trillion stars exist).  I expect that there are things about that life and its technology that are beyond even our capability of imagination - that is, I believe that it is POSSIBLE that such life has visited earth.  I'm just awaiting concrete proof - that is, physical evidence.

China, Russia, England all have these encounters and programs. 3rd world countries don’t have the tech to track these UAP that crash imo. The United States has bases all over the world, it’s not out of the real of possibility we could be on a crash like a fly on shit within 12 hours. Just my opinion. I believe France and Canada are  starting to be pretty loose lipped with their involvement with the phenomenon. 

[Texasborn91 935]

52 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

If people are open to believing in a higher power but not aliens, or vice versa, I find that really odd. 

That’s super loaded… who’s to say that a ufo can’t be Interpreted as an angel? A messenger from the sky? I’m not the most religious person in the world and that’s not the way I view it but I sympathize with it. 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

14 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

This is the only reason I am going to again bring up that it is faith, not reasoning or math, that leads you to believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in the world.

I don't disagree with you.  I used the word "believe" for a reason -- I don't think the burden of proof has been cleared on "spacefaring life exists somewhere in the universe."  There is no evidence/proof.  My HYPOTHESIS is that I think the numbers of stars, and what we have learned about the conditions for life to form, mean that it's quite likely that it exists.  But I freely admit that's at best an informed hypothesis based on woefully incomplete data and ZERO actual proof.  I THINK that there probably is....but I also THOUGHT that Ryan Leaf would be a much more successful NFL QB than Peyton Manning on draft day.

 

3 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

3rd world countries don’t have the tech to track these UAP that crash imo.

It doesn't take tech to track something going "boom" into the ground.  Roswell - if it was an alien crash - didn't require tech.  A rancher found debris.  If a craft smashed into the ground in Uganda, and it wasn't a completely remote area, locals would see/hear it, and/or come across the crash site at some point.  Maybe we (the US) could invade a foreign country and be on a crash site in 12 hours.  But even in remote areas, most people have camera phones and internet access.  I would expect that if there is a crash in Uganda, old Dembe would record a video of the smoking hulk and the dead aliens, and send that TikTok out within minutes.  It's the same reason that I knew that the story of (no CR) "lines of illegals registering to vote outside the DMV in Weatherford" was bullshit - if it was true, the Karen who reported it would have shot a 30 second video from the parking lot, and we'd have all seen it.  Lack of crowdsourced video proof of crashes and bodies and such raises my doubts significantly.

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You raise something that's equally puzzling to me -- you mention "non-U.S. government figures."  The "UFOs are ETs" crowd suffers from bias arising from the fact that they think that the US if functionally the only force/actor on the world stage.

 

UFO sightings are an Anglosphere obsession.  Independently, this means nothing other than that UFO sightings are in absolute and per capita terms reported more in the Anglosphere than elsewhere by far.  But it’s a data point nonetheless. 
 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

UFO sightings are an Anglosphere obsession.

Maybe that's because the acronym just looks silly in spanish -- "OVNI."

[Dbeasy 15,042]

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

UFO sightings are an Anglosphere obsession.  Independently, this means nothing other than that UFO sightings are in absolute and per capita terms reported more in the Anglosphere than elsewhere by far.  But it’s a data point nonetheless. 
 

It’s because we are free!! Jk. Well maybe. 

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

 

Brisket, I 100% agree with you on the bolded statement about being honest with yourself and others if you are reaching your conclusions based on faith or reasoning.

This is the only reason I am going to again bring up that it is faith, not reasoning or math, that leads you to believe that intelligent, spacefaring life exists in the world. Yes the target population of 200 billion trillion stars is super duper big but we still have no idea what the multiplier is for probability of life. It could be 1 in a hundred chance, meaning lots of life, or it could be 1 / 100 trillion trillion trillion, meaning almost certainly not any other life. Any assessment that there is likely or not likely to be life is grounded in some kind of faith.

I am definitely pro "I want there to be life" but if you ask if I think there is other life out there, it's a big old shrug of the shoulders.

There is a probability tree that begins to be pretty daunting. 
 

1. Probability of intelligent life evolving.

2. Probability of intelligent life turning skyward.

3. Probability of intelligent life doing so at the same time intelligent life has evolved on earth.

4. Probability of intelligent life existing within their own technological capabilities while intelligent life exists on earth.

5. Probability of detecting or accidentally bumping into earth. 
 

I can’t classify those numbers and neither can anyone else, but it’s for sure a big number. 
 

Where I depart with the believer is simple.  Reach for the terrestrial explanation(s) first.  If all terrestrial explanations must be ruled out, then let’s talk.  I have yet to encounter a case that meets that standard. 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

There is a probability tree that begins to be pretty daunting. 
 

1. Probability of intelligent life evolving.

2. Probability of intelligent life turning skyward.

3. Probability of intelligent life doing so at the same time intelligent life has evolved on earth.

4. Probability of intelligent life existing within their own technological capabilities while intelligent life exists on earth.

5. Probability of detecting or accidentally bumping into earth. 
 

I can’t classify those numbers and neither can anyone else, but it’s for sure a big number. 
 

Where I depart with the believer is simple.  Reach for the terrestrial explanation(s) first.  If all terrestrial explanations must be ruled out, then let’s talk.  I have yet to encounter a case that meets that standard. 

Items 1 and 2 are where my "there are 200 billion trillion stars" thought tell me "okay, those two seem probable, somewhere in the ENTIRE universe."  But then the time and distance things have me skid to a stop on items 3 to 5.  

Even if a species developed the ability to travel about its local area in its home galaxy.....we'd still never encounter each other.  Shit, species that develop on EARTH in isolated environments never encountered each other (until man figured out how to travel globally and carry creatures from one place to another).  Tigers and jaguars occupy pretty similar niches and cover large territories.....but they were never going to encounter each other, because there are oceans between them.  Maybe there's a spacefaring species in a galaxy that is 2 billion light years away.  Cool.  Unless they have figured out how not just to travel faster than light, but how to compress all distances so that distance is meaningless, we will never bump into each other.

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

Humans as we know them first started using stone tools 3.3 million years ago. We first started scratching on clay tablets 3600 years ago.  Generation of people like you and me— in no way dumber— fucked, started families, fought wars, worshipped, ruled,  traveled, dreamed, explored, suffered, died on a timeline that is literally incomprehensible to us before one of us thought to use a picture to represent an idea. 
 

We’ve been spacefaring for less than 100 years.  We have sent, in 3.3 million years, single digit objects that will leave the Sol system on more or less random paths. That advancement contains the very real possibility that we’ve fucked our planet beyond repair and will die out before we get a person out of our star system. 

The “time” factor is not seriously appreciated. 

Edited October 16 by 956 Worldwide

[Hagbard Celine 10,852]

you people are wacky

[Texasborn91 935]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Items 1 and 2 are where my "there are 200 billion trillion stars" thought tell me "okay, those two seem probable, somewhere in the ENTIRE universe."  But then the time and distance things have me skid to a stop on items 3 to 5.  

Even if a species developed the ability to travel about its local area in its home galaxy.....we'd still never encounter each other.  Shit, species that develop on EARTH in isolated environments never encountered each other (until man figured out how to travel globally and carry creatures from one place to another).  Tigers and jaguars occupy pretty similar niches and cover large territories.....but they were never going to encounter each other, because there are oceans between them.  Maybe there's a spacefaring species in a galaxy that is 2 billion light years away.  Cool.  Unless they have figured out how not just to travel faster than light, but how to compress all distances so that distance is meaningless, we will never bump into each other.

The bolded part is one of the theories out there. It’s not necessarily “speed” it’s compressing distance. The interstellar definition bc I’m not smart enough to explain it via text on a message board. 
 

Look you make great points and I’m glad this topic has popped back and been active again the last few days! Do me a favor and check these events out and give me a decent explanation…

Roswell crash and the military and town civilians claiming a crash and bodies. 
 

the Ariel school incident in Zimbabwe where a school yard full of children all saw the same event. 
 

the phoenix lights. An entire city saw a mile long crash hover above them completely silent. 
 

incredible claims require incredible evidence. At what point is the quantity of people having these experiences enough to warrant credibility? 

[Texasborn91 935]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There is a probability tree that begins to be pretty daunting. 
 

1. Probability of intelligent life evolving.

2. Probability of intelligent life turning skyward.

3. Probability of intelligent life doing so at the same time intelligent life has evolved on earth.

4. Probability of intelligent life existing within their own technological capabilities while intelligent life exists on earth.

5. Probability of detecting or accidentally bumping into earth. 
 

I can’t classify those numbers and neither can anyone else, but it’s for sure a big number. 
 

Where I depart with the believer is simple.  Reach for the terrestrial explanation(s) first.  If all terrestrial explanations must be ruled out, then let’s talk.  I have yet to encounter a case that meets that standard. 

If we believe evolution works on other worlds as it does here then who is to say the environment on another particular planet harbored life at a much earlier stage? Took a different path? Gave them a big leg up on us. A more efficient ancient ooze then what we came from. 
 

i do think it’s odd that many ET witnesses claim They look relatively similar to us. 2 eyes. 2 legs. 2 arms. Does advanced life have to follow some sort of path that looks like us as an intelligent being? Or do we have DNA in common. Were there here first and helped us along? Are they us from the future? 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,975]

13 hours ago, Victor Lazlo said:

Get a hold of yourself, dude. You do come across dickish to people that don’t agree with your ideas.

Vociferous deniers and skeptics? Of course, most sane, logical people are.

Just because you’ve seemingly spent an inordinate amount of time doing “proper research” - whatever that is - doesn’t make your fantasy of aliens on Earth any more true or plausible than the inverse.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Show us some extraordinary proof.

Anything that you’ve claimed or linked to so far doesn’t meet that standard .

The theory of evolution was a pretty extraordinary claim when it was first proposed. Yet we really don't have any instances of extraordinary proof. Because that's not actually how science works. What we do have is an extraordinary body of small bits of evidence. 

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

1 minute ago, Texasborn91 said:

The bolded part is one of the theories out there. It’s not necessarily “speed” it’s compressing distance. The interstellar definition bc I’m not smart enough to explain it via text on a message board. 
 

Oh, I get that.  But it's not even a theory.  Shit, it's not even a hypothesis.  At this point, it's only a "mcguffin" - a plot device necessary to get us to the main show (aliens visiting earth).  Shit, we see it in use in multiple variations in sci-fi movies and such ("warp drive," "folding space" in Dune, etc.)

Yes, something like that would pretty much have to exist if we're being visited by aliens.  But we have no evidence something like that exists.

And I looked up the Ariel School incident.  The report is that aliens visited some school kids and telepathically gave them some sort of environmental warning (we're polluting the planet, that's bad, etc.).  Ok.  So here's the thing.  Work backwards from the supposed purpose of the contact: to communicate that humans are causing environmental harm to the planet, presumably with the goal of getting us to change our ways.

If that is the goal....how in the blue fuck does visiting a random small school in Zimbabwe, and telling a handful of kids, advance that goal and fulfill the mission?  Imagine that you are a superior alien race, and you observe that the earth is polluted, and you want to impress upon humans that they should stop doing so.  Wouldn't you observe our transmissions and media to figure out to WHOM you should communicate that message so it would be effective?  Wouldn't you develop a cogent, detailed message, which also offered solutions (simple things like "stop burning hydrocarbons, use solar energy instead, here's how you can do so efficiently")?

If it were me and I was the alien commander, I'd interrupt global braodcasts (TV, radio), and broadcast my own message, with images and voice/text explaining things.  Millions upon millions would see Alien Overload Brisketexan's message showing how bad pollution is, how solar energy can fix it, and even my formula for how to build cheap solar panels, etc.  You can't ignore or debate something that millions of people see on TV (and surely is recorded somewhere as well).  Hell, I might even say "and tune in tomorrow at 7:00, when I share with you some delicious recipes for soy-based foods!"  And then I broadcast again the next day.  There.  Mission accomplished.

It's logical holes that you can drive a truck through that I just don't get.  IF aliens want to communicate with humans (and many of these stories involve just that -- aliens purportedly communicating with humans to share a specific message, with the implied goal of having us HEAR that message and follow it)....then they are fucking TERRIBLE at it.  Which is hard to believe: you've developed a complex society and technology that allows you to cross the universe.....but you can't figure out how to send an effective message to a planet that communicates by radio waves?

[Texasborn91 935]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I get that.  But it's not even a theory.  Shit, it's not even a hypothesis.  At this point, it's only a "mcguffin" - a plot device necessary to get us to the main show (aliens visiting earth).  Shit, we see it in use in multiple variations in sci-fi movies and such ("warp drive," "folding space" in Dune, etc.)

Yes, something like that would pretty much have to exist if we're being visited by aliens.  But we have no evidence something like that exists.

And I looked up the Ariel School incident.  The report is that aliens visited some school kids and telepathically gave them some sort of environmental warning (we're polluting the planet, that's bad, etc.).  Ok.  So here's the thing.  Work backwards from the supposed purpose of the contact: to communicate that humans are causing environmental harm to the planet, presumably with the goal of getting us to change our ways.

If that is the goal....how in the blue fuck does visiting a random small school in Zimbabwe, and telling a handful of kids, advance that goal and fulfill the mission?  Imagine that you are a superior alien race, and you observe that the earth is polluted, and you want to impress upon humans that they should stop doing so.  Wouldn't you observe our transmissions and media to figure out to WHOM you should communicate that message so it would be effective?  Wouldn't you develop a cogent, detailed message, which also offered solutions (simple things like "stop burning hydrocarbons, use solar energy instead, here's how you can do so efficiently")?

If it were me and I was the alien commander, I'd interrupt global braodcasts (TV, radio), and broadcast my own message, with images and voice/text explaining things.  Millions upon millions would see Alien Overload Brisketexan's message showing how bad pollution is, how solar energy can fix it, and even my formula for how to build cheap solar panels, etc.  You can't ignore or debate something that millions of people see on TV (and surely is recorded somewhere as well).  Hell, I might even say "and tune in tomorrow at 7:00, when I share with you some delicious recipes for soy-based foods!"  And then I broadcast again the next day.  There.  Mission accomplished.

It's logical holes that you can drive a truck through that I just don't get.  IF aliens want to communicate with humans (and many of these stories involve just that -- aliens purportedly communicating with humans to share a specific message, with the implied goal of having us HEAR that message and follow it)....then they are fucking TERRIBLE at it.  Which is hard to believe: you've developed a complex society and technology that allows you to cross the universe.....but you can't figure out how to send an effective message to a planet that communicates by radio waves?

I’m was implying the yard full of witnesses that all saw the same thing. The message is the message. And Roswell? The literal colonel picking meatllic pieces out of the desert claims he had no fucking idea what it was. And that he was given the order to play a good solider and say it was a weather balloon. 
 

In your opinion, have we as a human race conquered all there is to know in regards to science and physics? We have maxed out as a species even though we went from  horse and buggy to space travel in less than 100 years time.  We are at a stalemate because you acknowledge it can’t be done by us. But you refuse to acknowledge that it could be done by something else possibly.

I get it, until someone parks one on the White House lawn there will be skeptics and that’s fine. I just hope it all gets revealed in my lifetime. 

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

8 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

In your opinion, have we as a human race conquered all there is to know in regards to science and physics? We have maxed out as a species even though we went from  horse and buggy to space travel in less than 100 years time.  We are at a stalemate because you acknowledge it can’t be done by us. But you refuse to acknowledge that it could be done by something else possibly.

 

Part of the issue is the continued misrepresentations on the pro-UFO side. I don't think there is a single person in this thread that has refused to acknowledge that all of the stories / evidence you bring up could be aliens. I haven't seen a single "Definitely not aliens". What I have seen is a lot of skepticism, a lot of "there could be other reasons", a lot of "I don't think this is the case because X/Y/Z". I see questions of what evidence would be accepted, and then handwaving when that evidence is proposed but not produced.

For those who claim we are no fun at parties, I see a hell of a lot more rigid thinking and dogma (and anger) behind alien believers than I do from skeptics.

[Brisketexan 105,082]

Part of the issue is the continued misrepresentations on the pro-UFO side. I don't think there is a single person in this thread that has refused to acknowledge that all of the stories / evidence you bring up could be aliens. I haven't seen a single "Definitely not aliens". What I have seen is a lot of skepticism, a lot of "there could be other reasons", a lot of "I don't think this is the case because X/Y/Z". I see questions of what evidence would be accepted, and then handwaving when that evidence is proposed but not produced.
For those who claim we are no fun at parties, I see a hell of a lot more rigid thinking and dogma (and anger) behind alien believers than I do from skeptics.

This. I didn’t say that these things aren’t possible. I said they aren’t proven or even rising to the level of probable. And I stand by that. It’s sound reasoning.

[Texasborn91 935]

12 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Part of the issue is the continued misrepresentations on the pro-UFO side. I don't think there is a single person in this thread that has refused to acknowledge that all of the stories / evidence you bring up could be aliens. I haven't seen a single "Definitely not aliens". What I have seen is a lot of skepticism, a lot of "there could be other reasons", a lot of "I don't think this is the case because X/Y/Z". I see questions of what evidence would be accepted, and then handwaving when that evidence is proposed but not produced.

For those who claim we are no fun at parties, I see a hell of a lot more rigid thinking and dogma (and anger) behind alien believers than I do from skeptics.

And I’m asking you to quantify thousands of people seeing extraordinary things. I’m giving explicit examples of encounters that cannot be just explained away. At what point does eye witness and  whistleblower testimony become enough?

 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

And I’m asking you to quantify thousands of people seeing extraordinary things. I’m giving explicit examples of encounters that cannot be just explained away. At what point does eye witness and  whistleblower testimony become enough?
 

Gimme millions or hundreds of thousands simultaneously seeing something clearly alien. With clear video. Then we’d be staring to get there. But honestly, it’s still going to be actual physical evidence. Metal. Bodies. That’s what it takes.
Just like I won’t believe in Sasquatch until I have physical material with DNA.

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

55 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

I’m was implying the yard full of witnesses that all saw the same thing. The message is the message. And Roswell? The literal colonel picking meatllic pieces out of the desert claims he had no fucking idea what it was. And that he was given the order to play a good solider and say it was a weather balloon. 
 

In your opinion, have we as a human race conquered all there is to know in regards to science and physics? We have maxed out as a species even though we went from  horse and buggy to space travel in less than 100 years time.  We are at a stalemate because you acknowledge it can’t be done by us. But you refuse to acknowledge that it could be done by something else possibly.

I get it, until someone parks one on the White House lawn there will be skeptics and that’s fine. I just hope it all gets revealed in my lifetime. 

Serious question, why do we keep bringing up Roswell. The “official” version is that the military was launching high-altitude balloons with absolutely top secret, compartmented equipment attached designed to monitor potential Soviet nuclear tests.  One of them crashed and scattered debris near military testing facilities. 
 

This explanation is absolutely consistent with a debris field of metallic shit and with anyone who touched the stuff being told “shut your mouth and tell people it was a weather balloon.” Why is this explanation unsatisfactory? 

[956 Worldwide 34,704]

58 minutes ago, Texasborn91 said:

 

In your opinion, have we as a human race conquered all there is to know in regards to science and physics? We have maxed out as a species even though we went from  horse and buggy to space travel in less than 100 years time.  We are at a stalemate because you acknowledge it can’t be done by us. But you refuse to acknowledge that it could be done by something else possibly.

. 

Throwing this back, do you think that we actually “know” anything.  Because yes, physicists will tell you there is a lot to learn and explore.  They will also tell you there is stuff we just “know” about how the universe and its building blocks work.  It strikes me as equally arrogant to say “you can’t really know shit” as to say “we know everything.” 
 

The FTL and other stuff is fairly fundamental here.  We don’t get to say “maybe they can create energy that wasn’t already in existence” or “maybe they solved perpetual motion.” It’s not far from saying that maybe the aliens have invented a method where 2+2=5. 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

And I’m asking you to quantify thousands of people seeing extraordinary things. I’m giving explicit examples of encounters that cannot be just explained away. At what point does eye witness and  whistleblower testimony become enough?
 

Also, why don’t you address my analysis of the absurdity of the Zimbabwe school story. It makes no sense. The action taken does nothing to further the goal.

[Texasborn91 935]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Serious question, why do we keep bringing up Roswell. The “official” version is that the military was launching high-altitude balloons with absolutely top secret, compartmented equipment attached designed to monitor potential Soviet nuclear tests.  One of them crashed and scattered debris near military testing facilities. 
 

This explanation is absolutely consistent with a debris field of metallic shit and with anyone who touched the stuff being told “shut your mouth and tell people it was a weather balloon.” Why is this explanation unsatisfactory? 

Hundreds of balloons were launched in New Mexico. Why did this one fool them all of a sudden? To the point the military initially said they were in possession of a flying disk only to rebuke that claim later? Jesse marcell was a colonel at the base and he was sent to investigate? Do you think he was fooled? You believe he can’t tell what a weather balloon is? He was interviewed after he received a terminal illness diagnosis and claimed he had never seen anything like it. That it had symbols, was light but would not bend. 
 

more military personnel from the base later claimed to have found a crash site. Recovered bodies and 1 still alive. They confided in family members we weren’t alone in the universe. 
 

These family members were threatened to keep it secret or they would be taken into the desert and never seen again. 
 

it’s the greatest account of a ufo encounter in American history. 

[Texasborn91 935]

15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Throwing this back, do you think that we actually “know” anything.  Because yes, physicists will tell you there is a lot to learn and explore.  They will also tell you there is stuff we just “know” about how the universe and its building blocks work.  It strikes me as equally arrogant to say “you can’t really know shit” as to say “we know everything.” 
 

The FTL and other stuff is fairly fundamental here.  We don’t get to say “maybe they can create energy that wasn’t already in existence” or “maybe they solved perpetual motion.” It’s not far from saying that maybe the aliens have invented a method where 2+2=5. 

Because the world was flat until it wasn’t. The universe revolved around earth until it didn’t. It was known until we knew better. 

[Brisketexan 105,082]

Because the world was flat until it wasn’t. The universe revolved around earth until it didn’t. It was known until we knew better. 

And for centuries, angels and demons were among us, all the time.
Humans have interpreted observations and feelings and beliefs as something fantastical, when the thing wasn’t real at all or was explainable by science.
I don’t know why this upsets you so. We have high standards of proof for extraordinary claims. None of us are saying it’s not possible. We’re saying it’s not probable based on current evidence.

And yes, there are usually lots of holes in every story. No, I’m not going to spend the next 500 hours of my life doing the exercise with every encounter you want to point me to. I picked one - the Zimbabwe school. I explained exactly why it doesn’t make sense, using pretty basic deductive reasoning.

[Texasborn91 935]

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Also, why don’t you address my analysis of the absurdity of the Zimbabwe school story. It makes no sense. The action taken does nothing to further the goal.

Dude I’m with you. The telepathy about saving the earth is a little c budget sci fi for me. The amount of them seeing the same thing at the same time was what I was trying to convey  

[Keef 764]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Also, why don’t you address my analysis of the absurdity of the Zimbabwe school story. It makes no sense. The action taken does nothing to further the goal.

I don't know much about the Zimbabwe story, but your objections are in the vein of "they didn't act like I would".  We can't determine the true motivations, mindset, and strategy.  This is like saying I don't understand why the guy shot and killed the victim, so it must not have occurred.  There are lots of prosaic explanations for this case I'm sure.  But 50+ kids seem to all have seen the same thing, so I presume something occurred.  Maybe some weird test from a government craft.  Who knows.

[Tailgate 3,021]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:26 AM, Victor Lazlo said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Show us some extraordinary proof.

Anything that you’ve claimed or linked to so far doesn’t meet that standard .

It will be some time before it’s shown to “us” in a formal manner. 
 

The consequences for revealing information individually would not be positive.

 

Edited October 17 by Tailgate

[Tailgate 3,021]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And I looked up the Ariel School incident.  The report is that aliens visited some school kids and telepathically gave them some sort of environmental warning (we're polluting the planet, that's bad, etc.).  Ok.  So here's the thing.  Work backwards from the supposed purpose of the contact: to communicate that humans are causing environmental harm to the planet, presumably with the goal of getting us to change our ways.

If that is the goal....how in the blue fuck does visiting a random small school in Zimbabwe, and telling a handful of kids, advance that goal and fulfill the mission?  Imagine that you are a superior alien race, and you observe that the earth is polluted, and you want to impress upon humans that they should stop doing so.  Wouldn't you observe our transmissions and media to figure out to WHOM you should communicate that message so it would be effective?  Wouldn't you develop a cogent, detailed message, which also offered solutions (simple things like "stop burning hydrocarbons, use solar energy instead, here's how you can do so efficiently")?

The “you’re fucking up your planet” message is a common thought relayed by those who’ve said they’ve had encounters.

The best evidence currently is the consistency of the stories from people all around the world who have had apparent experiences. Many people thousands of miles apart, and who do not know each other, have very similar details of what they saw and what was communicated.

 

 

[GreenspointTexas 9,598]

Some good discussion in here

[Hermanator 7,032]

On 10/15/2024 at 6:45 PM, Texasborn91 said:

Agree to disagree. Do you think Roswell was a weather balloon? 

There is no agree or disagree. You're objectively wrong. The scientific method, which has been the basis of basically every human technological and scientific advancement, is based on proving the assertion. Not disproving objections to an assertion. That's the only way it can work. It cannot work the other way. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's why the whole Aliens, Jesus, Zeus, Allah, etc thing is 100 percent incumbent on those asserting the supernatural or otherwise extraterrestrial events to provide evidence that can withstand peer review and be proven positive. It's the only way advancement can work without allowing bias to corrupt the conclusions. 

[Keef 764]

5 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's why the whole Aliens, Jesus, Zeus, Allah, etc thing is 100 percent incumbent on those asserting the supernatural or otherwise extraterrestrial events to provide evidence that can withstand peer review and be proven positive. It's the only way advancement can work without allowing bias to corrupt the conclusions. 

Drop the condescension.  I think most everyone in this thread agrees with this, but the alien question is unique.  The US government has obstructed, classified and/or retained internally pretty much all matters of significance.  The normal scientific community has no access to that evidence and the USG has actively discouraged any scientific inquiry into UAPs for decades.

Certain members of Congress have been privy to far more details than have been released publicly and they seem interested as fuck, on a bipartisan basis.  And authorized or (I would argue) implicitly authorized agents of the USG are saying precisely that it is aliens. There is also currently a bill up in draft form that would require disclosure from the Pentagon and Pentagon-affiliated companies that is being fought like hell behind the scenes.

[Brisketexan 105,082]

Drop the condescension.  I think most everyone in this thread agrees with this, but the alien question is unique.  The US government has obstructed, classified and/or retained internally pretty much all matters of significance.  The normal scientific community has no access to that evidence and the USG has actively discouraged any scientific inquiry into UAPs for decades.
Certain members of Congress have been privy to far more details than have been released publicly and they seem interested as fuck, on a bipartisan basis.  And authorized or (I would argue) implicitly authorized agents of the USG are saying precisely that it is aliens. There is also currently a bill up in draft form that would require disclosure from the Pentagon and Pentagon-affiliated companies that is being fought like hell behind the scenes.

There are 6.65 billion people on this planet who are NOT under the jurisdiction of the USG. This is a big planet. Where is the physical evidence from any of them?

You’re doing the classic conspiracy theory move: the lack of evidence is ACTUALLY proof of the matter posited! Again…not how it works.

[Keef 764]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There are 6.65 billion people on this planet who are NOT under the jurisdiction of the USG. This is a big planet. Where is the physical evidence from any of them?

You’re doing the classic conspiracy theory move: the lack of evidence is ACTUALLY proof of the matter posited! Again…not how it works.

Here is a small selection, covering only English news sources, public and unclassified programs, and only governments or government officials I knew off the top of my head.  

• https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weird-news/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer
• https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-investigation-japan-us-says-region-hotspot-uap-sightings/
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMETA_report
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident
• https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/peru-ufo-investigations-office-reopening
• https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/14/mexico-legislators-hold-hearing-on-existence-of-ufos-shown-alien-bodies
• https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/australia/A9755_22_3533575.pdf
• https://tass.com/russia/1463895
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/06/ufo-brazil-documents-classified/
• https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-14/china-s-phantom-ufo-shows-xi-struggle-to-find-the-right-message?embedded-checkout=true

[PhillyD 1,257]

I picked 3 of the above randomly.  Not one of them talked about physical evidence.  

[Keef 764]

20 minutes ago, PhillyD said:

I picked 3 of the above randomly.  Not one of them talked about physical evidence.  

Sure, here are some that are directly on point. Other governments - much like our own - are of course taking this seriously.

• https://www.narcap.de/dokumente/COMETA-Report-englisch.pdf (this is the COMETA report from France)
• https://vocal.media/futurism/the-tehran-ufo-incident (Tehran UFO event)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave (Belgium)
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/01/02/ufo-sighting-confirmed-by-faa-air-force-radar/c186c4b7-54ed-459e-b94d-eeeff7b3322e/ (Japanese Airline)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shag_Harbour_UFO_incident (Canadian case)
• https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/it-definitely-happened-westall-ufo-witnesses-want-answers-to-decades-long-mystery-20240406-p5fhvz.html (Australian case)

[Tailgate 3,021]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:05 PM, Brisketexan said:

There are 6.65 billion people on this planet who are NOT under the jurisdiction of the USG. This is a big planet. Where is the physical evidence from any of them?

You’re doing the classic conspiracy theory move: the lack of evidence is ACTUALLY proof of the matter posited! Again…not how it works.

The other major governments around the world are also privy to this topic. And again, it is not a positive situation for anyone who wants to come forward. No matter where you are. Lot’s of folks have confirmed that. Including in U.S. congressional testimony. Unfortunately, we are going to have to wait until “the time is right” to all see physical evidence for ourselves.

Also, meant to add in my early post on messaging along the lines of “you’re going to fuck up your planet.” Environment has to be a part of that message but also noted is the apparent interest in nuclear weapons. People working in facilities that house nuclear weapons are on record has having seen “lights” hovering in the sky above their location and all of the weapons being suddenly deactivated. Very interesting…

I am teleporting out of this thread. 

Edited October 21 by Tailgate