UAP Pentagon Report (UFOs, Foo Fighters, Commie Drones)

[Bill Lumbergh 7168]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

The "there is crazy shit in our airspace that no one knows what the fuck it is and if they do they're lying about it and/or withholding information" isn't. 

I disagree, but that's ok.

To me there are symptoms that there might be crazy shit going on, and theories on both sides of this debate to try to explain those symptoms.  But nothing concrete to entirely prove or refute either side of the debate.

That by definition feels like arguing religion to me.  You're taking a set of hard to explain things and biasing towards believing one explanation over another plausible explanation.  Neither can be proven right or wrong (overall) so it just comes down to what you choose to believe.

[ztejas 42817]

24 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I disagree, but that's ok.

To me there are symptoms that there might be crazy shit going on, and theories on both sides of this debate to try to explain those symptoms.  But nothing concrete to entirely prove or refute either side of the debate.

That by definition feels like arguing religion to me.  You're taking a set of hard to explain things and biasing towards believing one explanation over another plausible explanation.  Neither can be proven right or wrong (overall) so it just comes down to what you choose to believe.

It just depends on what you mean by concrete. There is loads more credence to the UFO phenomenon than Jesus walking on water or Muhammad stoning 13 women to death with one throw or whatever he did. 

I mean there's plenty of stuff throughout history that is accepted as having happened that has less "concrete" evidence than the UFO phenomenon. Something something written by the victors. 

[SurlyBDR 22416]

[Dahobbs 17250]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

It just depends on what you mean by concrete. There is loads more credence to the UFO phenomenon than Jesus walking on water . . .

I mean there's plenty of stuff throughout history that is accepted as having happened that has less "concrete" evidence than the UFO phenomenon. Something something written by the victors. 

I mean, it isn't that far apart. We have supposed eye witness accounts of both. But beyond that we have essentially nothing in the way of verifiable evidence for either. We certainly know there are incidents of unidentified objects, but there isn't anything that proves they 1) are physical objects, 2) actually behave in way that defies understanding, or 3) are  alien spaceships. We also are pretty confident Jesus existed, but don't have anything that proves he 1) was actually the son of god, 2) could walk on water or turn water into wine, or 3) was an alien. 

[Buzzrock 14785]

And yet they still won’t unseal the JFK assassination files.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I mean, it isn't that far apart. We have supposed eye witness accounts of both. But beyond that we have essentially nothing in the way of verifiable evidence for either. We certainly know there are incidents of unidentified objects, but there isn't anything that proves they 1) are physical objects, 2) actually behave in way that defies understanding, or 3) are  alien spaceships. We also are pretty confident Jesus existed, but don't have anything that proves he 1) was actually the son of god, 2) could walk on water or turn water into wine, or 3) was an alien. 

Oh, we have much of that stuff. It's just classified.

[ztejas 42817]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I mean, it isn't that far apart. We have supposed eye witness accounts of both. But beyond that we have essentially nothing in the way of verifiable evidence for either. We certainly know there are incidents of unidentified objects, but there isn't anything that proves they 1) are physical objects, 2) actually behave in way that defies understanding, or 3) are  alien spaceships. We also are pretty confident Jesus existed, but don't have anything that proves he 1) was actually the son of god, 2) could walk on water or turn water into wine, or 3) was an alien. 

It's extremely far apart. But it isn't my job to do research for everyone in this thread. I have already linked or mentioned plenty of resources that I have personally drawn inferences from.

Most of the skeptics and doubters in here are completely unaware of most of the history surrounding this phenomenon. That's fine with me. You are entitled to believe what you want. But the fact is that I take people who are less invested and/or informed opinion's less seriously. 

And in that sense it isn't like religion at all. There is a vast amount of data that takes time and effort to examine and the amount of people in here that have not done that that are at the same refusing to acknowledge the very real possibility that this shit is real is frankly irritating on a personal issue. 

But that's a me issue and I accept that. I'm not Derkaing this thing. I really appreciate the discussion and I try and keep it civil. Please call me out when/if I'm being a dickhead. All of you are entitled to your own beliefs and I respect that but at the same time I will keep challenging them. That's how passionate I am about this.

I just wish a lot of the people so quick to disbelieve or call bullshit would look into this more. I'm not a kook. I'm actually an extremely intelligent person that is quick to call bullshit on all kinds of conspiracies. The fact that I ardently believe in a lot of this shit should key y'all in that this is something you should look into.

Anyways. 

Have a nice night. All love - I hope all of you are doing well in your personal lives and if not I hope it gets better. 

[956 Worldwide 34016]

So one thing about the famous “tic tac” sighting as well as some others— these sightings occurred as the ships and aircraft were training in a “sanitized” environment with civilian traffic diverted, no weapons, and in the tic-tac episode, testing of upgraded radar. 
 

Why’s this relevant? Well, it would be a hell of a coincidence if the aliens just chose that moment and that location to make themselves visible. On the other hand, it’s an environment that lends itself well to field test our own advanced tech, or something that would be of great interest to adversaries. 

[Hermanator 6693]

10 hours ago, Keef said:

Mick West is a fuckhead.  The notion that Mick West knows more about what happened than the best pilots in our Navy - armed with the most advanced tech we have - and the radar operators on the aircraft carrier is insane.  

The Navy pilots, especially the two who want the attention in Graves and Favor, have been clear they aren't saying these are aliens. They're saying they saw things they can't explain and have this grainy video from some instrumentation. 

West offered some explanations for non-alien possibilities for these videos. He never said he knows more about flying an aircraft than Navy pilots and that's not even an issue here. 

Since you reacted so emotionally I'm going to conclude you didn't watch the video. If by some chance you did go ahead and refute his conclusions in coherently plausible detail here. 

[ztejas 42817]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

It's extremely far apart. But it isn't my job to do research for everyone in this thread. I have already linked or mentioned plenty of resources that I have personally drawn inferences from.

Most of the skeptics and doubters in here are completely unaware of most of the history surrounding this phenomenon. That's fine with me. You are entitled to believe what you want. But the fact is that I take people who are less invested and/or informed opinion's less seriously. 

And in that sense it isn't like religion at all. There is a vast amount of data that takes time and effort to examine and the amount of people in here that have not done that that are at the same refusing to acknowledge the very real possibility that this shit is real is frankly irritating on a personal issue. 

But that's a me issue and I accept that. I'm not Derkaing this thing. I really appreciate the discussion and I try and keep it civil. Please call me out when/if I'm being a dickhead. All of you are entitled to your own beliefs and I respect that but at the same time I will keep challenging them. That's how passionate I am about this.

I just wish a lot of the people so quick to disbelieve or call bullshit would look into this more. I'm not a kook. I'm actually an extremely intelligent person that is quick to call bullshit on all kinds of conspiracies. The fact that I ardently believe in a lot of this shit should key y'all in that this is something you should look into.

Anyways. 

Have a nice night. All love - I hope all of you are doing well in your personal lives and if not I hope it gets better. 

 

I'll just keep quoting this until some of you come to your senses and quit acting like children. 

[PhillyD 1246]

You're a fucking beating in this thread.  You asked us to call you out when you're being a dickhead.  You're being a dickhead.  You've said you're passionate repeatedly about your beliefs.  No problem there.  Outside of that, you've done nothing but call any skeptic uninformed and pointed out how much research you've done.  You've offered no credible rebuttal except name calling and calling people children in the most passive aggressive way possible.  Be better.

[ztejas 42817]

2 hours ago, PhillyD said:

You're a fucking beating in this thread.  You asked us to call you out when you're being a dickhead.  You're being a dickhead.  You've said you're passionate repeatedly about your beliefs.  No problem there.  Outside of that, you've done nothing but call any skeptic uninformed and pointed out how much research you've done.  You've offered no credible rebuttal except name calling and calling people children in the most passive aggressive way possible.  Be better.

I'm not even sure who the fuck you are. Some of us carry weight on this site some of us don't. You fall into the latter. 

[ztejas 42817]

Oh - by the way- I fall into the former. 

[atomheartbevo 89044]

7 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

And yet they still won’t unseal the JFK assassination files.

Aristotle Onassis maybe dead, but he played a long-ish game and his family still has a lot of money.

[Keef 729]

People are going to believe what they want to believe.  You have some of the powerful and informed people in government (Harry Reid, Obama, Clinton) saying we have no idea what these ships are and we can't explain them.  You have multiple whistle blowers who both ran inquiries into the subject for offices in the pentagon coming forward.  Grusch filed a whistleblower complaint through the appropriate channels within the pentagon and the inspector who reviewed his case (and could review the confidential information in support of it) found his claims credible and urgent.  He's testified for hours under oath in closed door committee meetings to congress, who is all of a sudden VERRYY interested in this.  We have videos, radar sigantures, and all manner of evidence from our military.  The military has openly admitted these things exist, we don't know what they are, we can't stop them in our airspace, and we don't think its Russia/China.  If you want ride with Mick West and his tired schtick (which he has been doing for years) then so be it. 

[ztejas 42817]

15 minutes ago, Keef said:

People are going to believe what they want to believe.  You have some of the powerful and informed people in government (Harry Reid, Obama, Clinton) saying we have no idea what these ships are and we can't explain them.  You have multiple whistle blowers who both ran inquiries into the subject for offices in the pentagon coming forward.  Grusch filed a whistleblower complaint through the appropriate channels within the pentagon and the inspector who reviewed his case (and could review the confidential information in support of it) found his claims credible and urgent.  He's testified for hours under oath in closed door committee meetings to congress, who is all of a sudden VERRYY interested in this.  We have videos, radar sigantures, and all manner of evidence from our military.  The military has openly admitted these things exist, we don't know what they are, we can't stop them in our airspace, and we don't think its Russia/China.  If you want ride with Mick West and his tired schtick (which he has been doing for years) then so be it. 

Keep it up. Most of the skeptics here are lazy and haven't done any research. I appreciate comments like this. 

People like me and you are on the right side of this because we've actually done the work. 

Props @Keef

Edited August 3, 2023 by ztejas

[ConferenceRoom 6080]

The “right” side of what? You are a weird dude. 

[ztejas 42817]

7 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

The “right” side of what? You are a weird dude. 

And you're an uninformed conspiracy theorist.

[ConferenceRoom 6080]

Okay, thanks anyway. 

[ztejas 42817]

17 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Okay, thanks anyway. 

Do some research. Or keep being a hack. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Keef 729]

6 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So one thing about the famous “tic tac” sighting as well as some others— these sightings occurred as the ships and aircraft were training in a “sanitized” environment with civilian traffic diverted, no weapons, and in the tic-tac episode, testing of upgraded radar. 
 

Why’s this relevant? Well, it would be a hell of a coincidence if the aliens just chose that moment and that location to make themselves visible. On the other hand, it’s an environment that lends itself well to field test our own advanced tech, or something that would be of great interest to adversaries. 

I find it very hard to believe that the US, China, Russia, etc. could build craft with the capabilities the tic tacs have shown without some of the tech revlations becoming public or disseminated in some fashion.  For example, you don't just go from the Wright brothers to SpaceX.  There were intermittent advances in propulsion, aircraft engines, etc. that were developed over the years that.  These craft demonstrate decades and decades of tech advancement.    

If it was ours, why even release this stuff in the first place and come out looking weak because we can't stop them or say what they are?  If we thought it was China/Russia, don't you think our course of action would be significantly more panicked?  Our military has collectively shrugged.  The only explanation I have for that posture is they know what it is and don't feel like its a threat.

And there have been hundreds of these sightings by our military.  The partial vidoes that have been released of the tic tac encounters (parts of the videos remain classified) are only a very small amount of the recorded evidence the military has on them per the military's own admissions.

[956 Worldwide 34016]

1 hour ago, Keef said:

I find it very hard to believe that the US, China, Russia, etc. could build craft with the capabilities the tic tacs have shown without some of the tech revlations becoming public or disseminated in some fashion.  For example, you don't just go from the Wright brothers to SpaceX.  There were intermittent advances in propulsion, aircraft engines, etc. that were developed over the years that.  These craft demonstrate decades and decades of tech advancement.    

If it was ours, why even release this stuff in the first place and come out looking weak because we can't stop them or say what they are?  If we thought it was China/Russia, don't you think our course of action would be significantly more panicked?  Our military has collectively shrugged.  The only explanation I have for that posture is they know what it is and don't feel like its a threat.

And there have been hundreds of these sightings by our military.  The partial vidoes that have been released of the tic tac encounters (parts of the videos remain classified) are only a very small amount of the recorded evidence the military has on them per the military's own admissions.

1. I think that they’d be slightly more panicked if it was Klingons interrupting training flights and radar tests.  I think the most likely explanation is that it’s our stuff they don’t want to talk about, though. And that the observed characteristics are not always actual. 
 

But I do think it’s funny to just dismiss China/Russia. Just recently we had several announced and admitted incursions of Chinese tech near U.S. facilities. Do you think those were the first? In years past those could have easily been left as UAPs.

2. The exaggeration hurts credibility. Of the “hundreds” mentioned between 2004-2021 in the Pentagon report, only 18 total UAP incidents displayed “unexplainable” flight characteristics so those are really the only super interesting ones. Objects that are just “up there” in some way but that don’t appear to be doing anything unexplainable are just UAPs— something up there we didn’t have enough data to identify but with most likely prosaic explanations. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

8 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

So one thing about the famous “tic tac” sighting as well as some others— these sightings occurred as the ships and aircraft were training in a “sanitized” environment with civilian traffic diverted, no weapons, and in the tic-tac episode, testing of upgraded radar. 
 

Why’s this relevant? Well, it would be a hell of a coincidence if the aliens just chose that moment and that location to make themselves visible. On the other hand, it’s an environment that lends itself well to field test our own advanced tech, or something that would be of great interest to adversaries. 

The concensus, if you could call it that, is that they were there all along, or at least often enough, and we just couldn't see them until we upgraded our radars. Once we upgraded our radars and were able to see them, they sent pilots to investigate and we got the tic tac video.

1 hour ago, Keef said:

If it was ours, why even release this stuff in the first place and come out looking weak because we can't stop them or say what they are?  If we thought it was China/Russia, don't you think our course of action would be significantly more panicked?  Our military has collectively shrugged.  The only explanation I have for that posture is they know what it is and don't feel like its a threat.

The gimbal video was originally leaked in 2007 here:

https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread265835/pg1

So they didn't really have much of a choice in that matter. It didn't get the attention of the public until it was leaked again along with the others several years ago.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

7 hours ago, PhillyD said:

You're a fucking beating in this thread.  You asked us to call you out when you're being a dickhead.  You're being a dickhead.  You've said you're passionate repeatedly about your beliefs.  No problem there.  Outside of that, you've done nothing but call any skeptic uninformed and pointed out how much research you've done.  You've offered no credible rebuttal except name calling and calling people children in the most passive aggressive way possible.  Be better.

I watched it, and saw a few things wrong with his assumptions, but I need to watch it again to confirm a few things.

[Chet Steadman 940]

10 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm not Derkaing this thing.

[Dahobbs 17250]

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm not even sure who the fuck you are. Some of us carry weight on this site some of us don't. You fall into the latter. 

You're being a dick. Your original response to me was fine. I mean, I obviously disagree with your description of available evidence, but the post was fine. The follow up has been unnecessarily aggressive. 

As to your claim that us skeptics just haven't done enough research, what I am I missing? I've read the whistle blower report and testimony transcript from the hearings. I've seen the videos, including the gimbal video. I read your link on the alleged detailed report from a US intelligence agency. I've ready the affidavits regarding events in 1960s. What is the one thing I really need to see/read what would be the most convincing? 

2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

The concensus, if you could call it that, is that they were there all along, or at least often enough, and we just couldn't see them until we upgraded our radars. Once we upgraded our radars and were able to see them, they sent pilots to investigate and we got the tic tac video.

The gimbal video was originally leaked in 2007 here:

https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread265835/pg1

So they didn't really have much of a choice in that matter. It didn't get the attention of the public until it was leaked again along with the others several years ago.

Our radars see all sorts of things that then get filtered out by software because they aren't important (e.g., flocks of birds). Take for instance the Chinese spy balloon earlier this year and the subsequent shoot down of a number of UAPs. After we identified the spy balloon issue, we tweaked the filters and suddenly started noticing these high flying flying, low speed objects that we couldn't identify. Some of them may have been spy balloons. Some of them were just civilian research and hobby balloons (e.g., https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/did-the-pentagon-shoot-down-a-harmless-ham-radio-balloon/). None of them were aliens. Point being that you'd expect recently upgraded radar/sensors, particularly when you're experimenting with fusing together data from multiple sources,  to show things you hadn't noticed before, especially if the filtering wasn't fully dialed in. Some of those things may be real, including natural phenomenon or man-made objects . Some may be artifacts. 

Anyway, below is video from an account I enjoy on military aviation. He covers "black triangles," but with what I view as a more objective view of the existing evidence rather than running wild with speculation.  He has a follow up video if anyone watches and is interested.  

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Serak The Preparer 3413]

12 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

I just wish a lot of the people so quick to disbelieve or call bullshit would look into this more. I'm not a kook. I'm actually an extremely intelligent person that is quick to call bullshit on all kinds of conspiracies. The fact that I ardently believe in a lot of this shit should key y'all in that this is something you should look into.

 

This is good to know. Most people who believe in conspiracy theories tell everyone that they are really dumb and gullible. The fact that you are letting us know straight out that this isn't the case for you is helpful. It must be why you carry a lot of weight on this site.

[Keef 729]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

1. I think that they’d be slightly more panicked if it was Klingons interrupting training flights and radar tests.  I think the most likely explanation is that it’s our stuff they don’t want to talk about, though. And that the observed characteristics are not always actual. 
 

But I do think it’s funny to just dismiss China/Russia. Just recently we had several announced and admitted incursions of Chinese tech near U.S. facilities. Do you think those were the first? In years past those could have easily been left as UAPs.

2. The exaggeration hurts credibility. Of the “hundreds” mentioned between 2004-2021 in the Pentagon report, only 18 total UAP incidents displayed “unexplainable” flight characteristics so those are really the only super interesting ones. Objects that are just “up there” in some way but that don’t appear to be doing anything unexplainable are just UAPs— something up there we didn’t have enough data to identify but with most likely prosaic explanations. 

The same Russia that is getting embarrased in Ukraine has made gamechanging advancements in flight and propullsion?  I'm not buying that for a second.  They're relevant militarily only because of their nuclear stockpile.  And China has shown zero indication they've made any sort of technological leaps that would replicate what the tic tacs can do.  The only three posibilities here in my mind are (i) US tech, (ii) a US disinformation campaign, or (iii) "aliens" (whatever that means).

[956 Worldwide 34016]

Relevant:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/pilots-are-seeing-some-very-strange-things-in-arizonas-military-training-ranges
 

Quote

Encounters with small unidentified "objects," sometimes in swarm-like groups of as many as eight. Sightings of other objects, including some characterized as drones, flying at altitudes up to 36,000 feet and as fast as Mach 0.75. Another apparent small drone actually hitting the canopy of an F-16 Viper causing damage. These incidents and many more, all occurred in or around various military air combat training ranges in Arizona since January 2020.

All concerning, all pretty much terrestrial, and likely involving adversaries. 

[atomheartbevo 89044]

7 hours ago, Keef said:

  He's testified for hours under oath in closed door committee meetings to congress, who is all of a sudden VERRYY interested in this.  

Don't mistake intense Congressional interest for partisan politics and one side trying to embarrass the other, or trying to distract the public from other stuff.

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

1. I think that they’d be slightly more panicked if it was Klingons interrupting training flights and radar tests.  I think the most likely explanation is that it’s our stuff they don’t want to talk about, though. And that the observed characteristics are not always actual. 

This is where I always come back to - yeah, sure, Space Force has the "gate" thing in Cheyenne Mountain Complex going on, but if we had alien spacecraft entering our atmosphere, it seems like our military would be refocusing like crazy.

[Dahobbs 17250]

30 minutes ago, Keef said:

The same Russia that is getting embarrased in Ukraine has made gamechanging advancements in flight and propullsion?  I'm not buying that for a second.  They're relevant militarily only because of their nuclear stockpile.  And China has shown zero indication they've made any sort of technological leaps that would replicate what the tic tacs can do.  The only three posibilities here in my mind are (i) US tech, (ii) a US disinformation campaign, or (iii) "aliens" (whatever that means).

1) You continue to assume that the physics defying phenomena is real. While technically possible, it isn't likely, and the available evidence is best described as insufficient;

2) Russia does have some advanced capabilities. While it doesn't have the budget to deploy them in mass, and while its military is dysfunctional due to corruption, it would be incorrect to conclude that it is incapable of developing and deploying a small number of advanced systems;

3) China has both the budget and demonstrated capability to develop and field advanced weapons at scale. While physics defying capabilities are unlikely, the less extreme (and more likely to be real) movements of certain UAPs could be the result of adversarial (or domestic) development. 

[Guest]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:08 PM, ztejas said:

I understand in itself it doesn't prove anything but you said you are skeptical there is sapien life in our galaxy but not skeptical that there is sentient life in the universe. I guess my question is why, and what is the cutoff, because 6 billion is a pretty huge fucking number. Is there a larger, universe wide number you're more comfortable with - or does it more have to do with the complexity of "sapien" life? 

I mean - I have my own doubts about how common life actually is and evolution itself vs. intelligent design - especially when it comes to humans. 

My belief in life outside earth is pretty much centered in everything I've seen regarding the UFO phenomenon. 

It's not so much a numbers cut off limit as it is that with the "sapient life within our galaxy" claim we can at least get some type of empirical evidence to extrapolate from to give some indication.  With the sentient life anywhere in the universe claim, that is virtually impossible to determine.  For example, are there some dolphin like creatures on an ocean planet in another galaxy 100 million light years away?  Maybe, really no way for us to find out with current tech.  With sapient life in our galaxy, we can make some reasonable assumptions and do some investigation. 

For example, suppose we put a percentage on planets that do achieve life, then percentage that has multicellular life, then percentage of those planets that reach sentient then sapient life, and finally percentage of those planets with sapient life that would have technologically advanced species capable of radio communication.  Radio communication is much easier to achieve than breaking the laws of physics, so we should expect to find some radio frequencies indicative of advanced species of the type, if they are at all common in our galaxy.  But what we find is complete radio silence in our galactic neighborhood.   Since there are no species that we can find near us capable of figuring out radios it seems unlikely that there are some that can violate the conservation of momentum, especially considering how that is impossible.   

[Keef 729]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:36 AM, Dahobbs said:

1) You continue to assume that the physics defying phenomena is real. While technically possible, it isn't likely, and the available evidence is best described as insufficient;

2) Russia does have some advanced capabilities. While it doesn't have the budget to deploy them in mass, and while its military is dysfunctional due to corruption, it would be incorrect to conclude that it is incapable of developing and deploying a small number of advanced systems;

3) China has both the budget and demonstrated capability to develop and field advanced weapons at scale. While physics defying capabilities are unlikely, the less extreme (and more likely to be real) movements of certain UAPs could be the result of adversarial (or domestic) development. 

You seem to be saying what these ships are doing is all impossible, violates physics, etc., but don't count out the Russians!  And I don't care about the "less extreme" movements of UAPs.  Sure, maybe China and Russia could do those.  I'm talking about the extreme movements, speeds, transitioning between air and water, etc. that our military has observed and documented.

[Handcruser 2802]

I’m fine with the aliens being here as long as they keep the anal probing to a minimum and/or only Aggies.

Maybe we’ll get some good restaurants out of this and a DE/Edge/Jack/Buck for SEC play.

[Handcruser 2802]

“Trongor Bagdang with the sack. That brings up fourth down and the Tide will have to punt for the 17th time in the game”

“This break is sponsored by TokTuk Gharbush Deli on 5th street. Get your fresh alien sliced meats and baked kwistrikock today!”

[Dahobbs 17250]

3 hours ago, Keef said:

You seem to be saying what these ships are doing is all impossible, violates physics, etc., but don't count out the Russians!  And I don't care about the "less extreme" movements of UAPs.  Sure, maybe China and Russia could do those.  I'm talking about the extreme movements, speeds, transitioning between air and water, etc. that our military has observed and documented.

I'm saying the physics breaking shit isn't actually happening. It is optical illusions, artifacts, or some other phenomenon that we aren't understanding do to the limited information. The less extreme events may very well be either domestic or adversarial tech. Saying that the military has documented the extreme movements is an exaggeration. It has documented something, but something it doesn't have sufficient information to identify. 

[bernorange 8341]

4 hours ago, axiom of foundation said:

... it seems unlikely that there are some that can violate the conservation of momentum, especially considering how that is impossible.   

I posted this back on the previous page:

Quote

In response to an Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) investigation report released by the US Department of Defense in June 2021, NASA has announced that it will form a team of scientists this fall to begin investigating unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs). The objects appearing in the images have shapes and movements that are completely unrealizable with today's technology. Therefore, the greatest achievement is the elucidation of the propulsion principle of the UAP and the theoretical explanation of the flight performance obtained from it. Unfortunately, current momentum thrust-based propulsion systems are limited in maximum speed and acceleration performance, so this is simply not possible. The new propulsion theory as the space drive propulsion system has already been completed. The flight performance and flight characteristics of space drive propulsion system homologize those of the UAP, so the flight performance of UAP is theoretically explained. Space drive propulsion system (also known as field propulsion) based on pressure thrust using the nature of space-time as a continuum is essential and become a proposal to explain the propulsion principle of UAP theoretically. This paper describes that the UAP's propulsion principle and propulsion mechanism, as well as the UAP's flight pattern and flight performance which are inevitably derived from it, can all be explained theoretically based on mathematical formulas.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363071724_UAP_Propulsion_Principle_and_Resulting_Flight_Performance_-_Theoretical_Analysis_of_UAP_Flight_Characteristics_-

Linked page contains link to .PDF of article from an engineering publication.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I posted this back on the previous page:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363071724_UAP_Propulsion_Principle_and_Resulting_Flight_Performance_-_Theoretical_Analysis_of_UAP_Flight_Characteristics_-

Linked page contains link to .PDF of article from an engineering publication.

I read through that article and it is pure quackery. 

Two questions for you.  Within our universe:

1. Do you think the laws of physics are the same at any time?
2. Do you think the laws of physics are the same at any location?

[bernorange 8341]

It's relative.  I'm no physicist, but my understanding is that we don't fully understand how physics works at extremes where space time bends/ruptures near black holes, when accelerated near the speed of light, etc.  

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, bernorange said:

It's relative.  I'm no physicist, but my understanding is that we don't fully understand how physics works at extremes where space time bends/ruptures near black holes, when accelerated near the speed of light, etc.  

Not being able to accurately model what happens near black holes is a different thing than what I'm asking.  Do you think the laws of physics depend on our location?  i.e, are the laws the same or do they change at different locations in space?

[bernorange 8341]

Is the event horizon of a black hole a different location?  Are the laws of physics as we experience them here the same as there?  We may not have the capability yet to warp the fabric of space time, but it seems like it might be theoretically possible.  Maybe one day some genius will figure it out.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Is the event horizon of a black hole a different location?  Are the laws of physics as we experience them here the same as there?  We may not have the capability yet to warp the fabric of space time, but it seems like it might be theoretically possible.  Maybe one day some genius will figure it out.

You think the universe has a set of laws for non black hole space but applies different rules in special regions of space when a black hole is formed? 

Edited August 6, 2023 by axiom of foundation

[Homercles 10205]

Forget it he’s rolling.  

[SaucyJack 3473]

These motherfuckers better roll in blasting this at 11 or they can kiss my hairy ass!

 

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm saying the physics breaking shit isn't actually happening. It is optical illusions, artifacts, or some other phenomenon that we aren't understanding do to the limited information. The less extreme events may very well be either domestic or adversarial tech. Saying that the military has documented the extreme movements is an exaggeration. It has documented something, but something it doesn't have sufficient information to identify. 

Possibly, but it would be a tough pill to fool all our different sensors from all out different ships and aircraft looking at the same spot from multiple locations in the exact same way. Probably as tough or nearly tough as actually making something that could do that. We obviously don't really have enough information to do anything but speculate. But still, the Navy has patented some technology that supposedly should be able to do some of this stuff.

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4adpv9/us-navy-has-patents-on-tech-it-says-will-engineer-the-fabric-of-reality

[Guest]

It’s crazy to me how little belief there is among the general public in the fundamental laws of nature.  All it takes is a few sensational internet links and so many are willing to toss out concrete facts about the universe.

We know that the universe has positional symmetry, i.e., the laws of physics do not change from one place to another. The law of conservation of momentum is a consequence of position symmetry. The fact that the laws of physics don’t depend on our location implies that momentum is conserved.  We also know that the universe has time symmetry, i.e., the laws of physics do not change from one time to another. The law of conservation of energy is a consequence of time symmetry.

If you think that aliens have developed reactionless drives, then you believe that the universe is not positionally symmetric and this is really a very stupid thing to believe.

 

 

[Dahobbs 17250]

56 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Possibly, but it would be a tough pill to fool all our different sensors from all out different ships and aircraft looking at the same spot from multiple locations in the exact same way. Probably as tough or nearly tough as actually making something that could do that. We obviously don't really have enough information to do anything but speculate. But still, the Navy has patented some technology that supposedly should be able to do some of this stuff.

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4adpv9/us-navy-has-patents-on-tech-it-says-will-engineer-the-fabric-of-reality

What event are you talking about where "all of our different sensors" were fooled? 

[SpiralOut 1796]

47 minutes ago, axiom of foundation said:

It’s crazy to me how little belief there is among the general public in the fundamental laws of nature.  All it takes is a few sensational internet links and so many are willing to toss out concrete facts about the universe.

We know that the universe has positional symmetry, i.e., the laws of physics do not change from one place to another. The law of conservation of momentum is a consequence of position symmetry. The fact that the laws of physics don’t depend on our location implies that momentum is conserved.  We also know that the universe has time symmetry, i.e., the laws of physics do not change from one time to another. The law of conservation of energy is a consequence of time symmetry.

If you think that aliens have developed reactionless drives, then you believe that the universe is not positionally symmetric and this is really a very stupid thing to believe.

 

 

Yeah, it's just so wild to believe a sentient, intelligent, space-faring race of aliens exist but that they also somehow have found us in the vast infinity of the universe and only show themselves to Bubba the inbred hick or to people who have super-grainy camera footage as the only evidence.

For aliens to be here they:

1. Have to have broken the fundamental laws of the Universe.  No alien is getting here by slow-boating in a ship at some fraction of the speed of light.  So they have to have FTL or some equivalent technology.  It has been theorized these technologies are possible, but the amount of energy they would require is ridiculous beyond belief.  If your civilization had the energy required to go anywhere in the Universe, why the fuck would you bother with Earth?  I can go to Oklahoma anytime I want.  Never do.  Funny how that works.

2.  They have to know where we are.  Space is quite large.  Unbelievably large, in fact.  So large as to be literally infinite.  The amount of the Universe THAT WE CAN SEE, which in no way the entire Universe, has a 46 Billion LY radius.  It has somewhere in the region of 2 TRILLION GALAXIES.  TWO. TRILLION. GALAXIES.  Our galaxy by itself is estimated to have somewhere between 100-400 BILLION stars.  Science has now proven that planets are ubiquitous across our galaxy.  So aliens are the best Where's Waldo players ever.  On a side note, it's estimated that the entire Universe is 26 TRILLION LY across.  That's wild as fuck.  

3.  There has been some argument lately to the exact number, but it's estimated the Universe is 14.7 BILLION years old.  That's a mighty long time, right?  Except a nice chunk of time right after the Big Bang was so hot atoms couldn't form.  Then, when shit cooled down just a smidge and atoms could form it took quite awhile for the first super massive stars to form.  Because, as we know, all heavy elements exist because stars formed, burned bright, started converting their cores into heavier and heavier elements, and then exploded to spread that shit across the Universe to form into even more stars.  Life on this planet took BILLIONS of years to evolve to its current state.  We almost didn't make it plenty of times.  So, knowing all that, we also know the last star should form around 100 TRILLION YEARS from now.  We are nowhere close to the peak habitability of the Universe.  We really should shave about 4-5 Billion years off the timeline for when sentient life could exist, but whatever.  So, 14.7 billion divided by 100 trillion is .000147%.  That's how old the Universe is compared to when the last star gets made.  But somehow aliens have already created a Type 3/4 civilization, packed up the interstellar Winebago, found us, and are probing the asses of low IQ motherfuckers on our shitbird planet.

There are no aliens.  Just like there are no unicorns, dragons, Santa Claus, tooth fairies, or hot milfs in your area that want to fuck you.  There are plenty of grifters who like making an easy buck off of gullible people and government types who like keeping the hoi polloi distracted while they continue to loot and pillage.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by SpiralOut

[ConferenceRoom 6080]

Now here’s Tom with the weather. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

What event are you talking about where "all of our different sensors" were fooled? 

We had fighters in the air, probably a Hawkeye in the sky, and of course the carrier they all were based on. All of those have their own radar to track things. Also, for anything within the line of sight, the ATFLIR has thermography cameras, visible spectrum cameras, laser rangefinders, and laser tracking. So it would have to fool every single one of those technologies as well as the actual pilots who were watching it from every angle it was detected from and do it in the same way so that all the data matches. It would probably have to be alien technology to do that.

Edited August 6, 2023 by NotActuallyALonghorn