UAP Pentagon Report (UFOs, Foo Fighters, Commie Drones)

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desertrat/1994/rat_13.html#timeline

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

I lived this story 30 years ago.   If you grew up in an Air Force family and had access to Aviation Leak you knew what Tonopah was, and you knew about Groom, because your parents had been visited by DSA agents doing in-person interviews as part of security checks for former colleagues.  Mr. Browncastle holla.  But if you didn't have that influence, the "modern" story began with this report which appeared on compuserve in november 1989:

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/ufo/bob.lazar

Anyone that wants a deep dive, continue with the Desert Rat.  It started on usenet 10 months before the release of Netscape Navigator (the first HTML browser).  The author converted to HTML with the advent of Netscape.  It was literally the very first guerilla site on the net in HTML.   The graphics and original HTML are long gone but the author has maintained the text content.

http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desertrat/1994/rat_01.html

good luck to all.

live long and prosper.

peace out.

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

oh yes, i forgot tom mahodd, one of The Interceptors.....

in no certain order:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/nellis-complex-facilities/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/so-ya-dont-believe-it-was-a-proton-beam-eh/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/nellis-complex-facilities/area-19/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/nellis-complex-facilities/the-cheshire-airstrip/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/nellis-complex-facilities/groom-lake-timeline/

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/nellis-complex-facilities/the-test-site-train/

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

are you not entertained?

[synoptic 138]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Why are all of the last several posters so confident he’s lying or bat shit crazy? 

He's either lying or delusional.  For one, he claims he has graduated with a masters degree from MIT and CIT.  But neither school has a record of him even attending.  Only records of him at any school are from a junior college.  He claims the government erased his records at the schools.  Ok.  So why can't he produce a single document from his time at these universities?  Why are there no former classmates or professors he can reference that remember him?  He would have been in small grad classes at elite universities, not US history at state U with 500 kids.  Someone would be able to verify he was there.  But they can’t because he is lying.

Then his interview is obviously bs.  Whenever pressed on any technical detail his migraine starts to bother him and he can't remember.  So how did your team determine the material was element 115?  Sorry, migraine bothering me.  He never says anything that one couldn’t learn with a basic understanding of physics and lots of sci fi watching.  But the US government brought in this 25 year old junior college kid to study alien technology because he chatted with Ed Teller once.  Nothing about his story is remotely believable.  
 

Edited May 18, 2021 by synoptic

[CastHorn 784]

These things have been documented in the literature, religious text, and art in some of the most ancient civilizations. I know “alien” has been historically used to describe the ability of these crafts but is it possible that they originate on earth? Maybe some kind of precursor race that predates mankind. 

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

Madonna with Saint Giovannino

attributed to Domenico Ghirlandaio  (1448–1494)

Palazzo Vecchio, Firenze

https://www.italymagazine.com/news/madonna-saint-giovannino-ufo-inspired-art

Edited May 18, 2021 by Hagbard Celine

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg

 

[El Diablo 4232]

Yes, no space debris has ever just fallen out of the sky and impacted the earth, only UFOs during a time when many considered the earth to be a flat disc.

Funny how with Lazar the only physical evidence ever is in the hands of the US government and nobody else anywhere. 

Uri Geller has some spoons he'd like to sell you. 

[Enchubben 5495]

Another possibility: maybe it’s US advanced technology being tested, and only a select few are let in on the secret?

 

[DaysOff 7698]

That's exactly what he is saying the propulsion system is, he says it creates it's own gravity. He says he worked on one of the nine alien spacecraft that are apparently in Area 51, and all of them use the same propulsion, which cannot be explained with our current knowledge of physics. It's a long watch, but fascinating.
CHIEF

All that technology and they've managed to crash at least nine times. Do aliens hire ex Aeroflot pilots?

[Doc Reeves 6434]

8 hours ago, synoptic said:

He's either lying or delusional.  For one, he claims he has graduated with a masters degree from MIT and CIT.  But neither school has a record of him even attending.  Only records of him at any school are from a junior college.  He claims the government erased his records at the schools.  Ok.  So why can't he produce a single document from his time at these universities?  Why are there no former classmates or professors he can reference that remember him?  He would have been in small grad classes at elite universities, not US history at state U with 500 kids.  Someone would be able to verify he was there.  But they can’t because he is lying.

Then his interview is obviously bs.  Whenever pressed on any technical detail his migraine starts to bother him and he can't remember.  So how did your team determine the material was element 115?  Sorry, migraine bothering me.  He never says anything that one couldn’t learn with a basic understanding of physics and lots of sci fi watching.  But the US government brought in this 25 year old junior college kid to study alien technology because he chatted with Ed Teller once.  Nothing about his story is remotely believable.  
 

while I’m not sure about Bob Lazar, I am very sure about the authenticity of George Knapp as an investigator.

From my perspective, I became interested in this story trying to find errors in George Knapps investigative techniques as an exercise for some lab I had at UT. 

If Lazar is a fraud (and he may be) he is not crazy. He is an agent of the DOD who is doing this as part of concerted military operation.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

 

If Lazar is a fraud (and he may be) he is not crazy. He is an agent of the DOD who is doing this as part of concerted military operation.

Department of Duplicity ?

[Dbeasy 14791]

Hagbard, fantastic links and explanation. This guy seems to be a fraud. I read the indictments with a skeptical view, thinking that a concerned effort to make him sound crazy was possible. However, there are just too many problems with his story. 

As a side point, to those who dismiss these stories solely because it’s impossible for aliens to exist and have visited us, I would say that is a very narrow minded viewpoint. 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Department of Duplicity ?

George Knapp took Lazar to Los Alamos on camera where they went on base and spoke to people who currently worked there who remembered him. That’s hard to get past. 

Again, if you don’t believe Bob Lazar story that’s fine, but the story of the investigation into this person is just as bizarre and as someone who was studying con-men and ponzu artists it’s  truly what captured my interest. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

George Knapp took Lazar to Los Alamos on camera where they went on base and spoke to people who currently worked there who remembered him. That’s hard to get past. 

Again, if you don’t believe Bob Lazar story that’s fine, but the story of the investigation into this person is just as bizarre and as someone who was studying con-men and ponzu artists it’s  truly what captured my interest. 

Just commenting on the DOD reference.  I don't know anything bout Lazar

[smuggs 9313]

14 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Again, if you don’t believe Bob Lazar story that’s fine, but the story of the investigation into this person is just as bizarre and as someone who was studying con-men and ponzu artists it’s  truly what captured my interest. 

Did you uncover any good homemade recipes? The Kikkoman shit at the store is disgusting.

 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

11 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Did you uncover any good homemade recipes? The Kikkoman shit at the store is disgusting.

 

That’s one thing we can all agree is ‘true’

[Hagbard Celine 10558]

50 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

If Lazar is a fraud (and he may be) he is not crazy. He is an agent of the DOD who is doing this as part of concerted military operation.

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/

[Doc Reeves 6434]

2 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/

Oh I’m aware of the criticisms and critiques for sure and am definitely not trying to say bob Lazar is unquestionably telling the truth and the Reddit thread has a lot of really good back and forth if people want to jump down that rabbit hole. For me, this article just frames character color and side steps the reduction of the information to a T/F equation.

the thing that interest me is that this guy seems to have able to do some shit with his past that con-men and spies try very hard to do and then seemingly did nothing with it. To me something isn’t lining up. That’s not to say he did alien shit.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Doc Reeves

[SquishMitten 10373]

Another possibility: maybe it’s US advanced technology being tested, and only a select few are let in on the secret?
 

That could explain why so much of the activity seems to occur around our Navy. If something were that advanced, you’d want to do all of your testing where a crash wouldn’t result in that level of tech being recovered by a foreign government. From a strategic standpoint, the tech could be so advanced that there’s no need for it in daily use. If we were confident enough in our current capabilities against other countries, it makes sense to roll with it. Then, in the event of WW3, we bring out our secret toys, completely dominate the air/sea, and nobody has anything remotely capable of stopping us.

[Red Five 40455]

4 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Then, in the event of WW3, we bring out our secret toys, completely dominate the air/sea, and nobody has anything remotely capable of stopping us.

Well what are we waiting for! I mean no one wants another world war, but on the other hand it would look like Independence Day. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

That could explain why so much of the activity seems to occur around our Navy. If something were that advanced, you’d want to do all of your testing where a crash wouldn’t result in that level of tech being recovered by a foreign government. From a strategic standpoint, the tech could be so advanced that there’s no need for it in daily use. If we were confident enough in our current capabilities against other countries, it makes sense to roll with it. Then, in the event of WW3, we bring out our secret toys, completely dominate the air/sea, and nobody has anything remotely capable of stopping us.

I like this theory. It allows the navy to monitor its assets reactions to things that pop up (and test the UAF systems) with out them being aware there's even a test.  

Having said that, unless we have mastered some other-worldy-like-physics-shit the accounts from the naval pilots on 60 Minutes, and what my client talked about yesterday make me believe there's something actually otherworldly going on.  And.... based on the gov't saying yeah there's some weird shit going on we can't explain they're maybe setting us up for an announcement of some kind (that is some wild speculation for sure, but not out of the realm of possibility).

[XYZ 2154]

Quote

Final wisdom: If it says, "Restricted Area," "No Trespassing," "Keep Out," and "Use of Deadly Force Authorized," then keep going, don't worry about it, God will protect you.

Funny!

[XYZ 2154]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/

That’s a good read.

[CastHorn 784]

32 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

That could explain why so much of the activity seems to occur around our Navy. 

Expect every world government has been pretty open about their interactions with these things for decades except the U.S. & China until recently.

[Da Fino 2670]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:59 PM, Doc Reeves said:

TLDR:

its drones. We need to get off our ass and get caught up.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones-are-spying-on-the-u-s-and-the-pentagon-acts-like-theyre-ufos

Very interesting sections. 

Spoiler

Also, many of the strange high-performance characteristics ships and planes sometimes detect by radar at beyond visual range during these incidents can and likely are the result of electronic warfare. In fact, things like rapid accelerations in speed and sudden drops in altitude on radar represent very basic tenets of electronic warfare tactics. In the case of the east coast events, for instance, as far as we have been told, the high-performance capabilities of these objects were never visually observed, but they were seen on radar. The visual encounters describe balloon-like objects doing balloon-like things—not moving fast at all—while other objects feature performance more similar to drones than anything else.

Spoiler

It's also worth saying that a campaign like this also has huge information and psychological warfare aspects. Eventually, if it is officially disclosed or outed, it makes the targeted country look horribly impotent in that they couldn't even defend their own airspace or even define a threat to it. Even more embarrassing, they let hollow cultural stigmas provide an open door to enemy intelligence operations. Beyond that, these activities cause confusion and muddy the waters as to what is a threat and what isn't.

Spoiler

When it comes to the reality that drones and balloons appear to be the origin of many of these sightings, I wish it wasn't the case. I would rather have all this be some huge revelation for mankind instead of having to come to terms with the fact that at least one of our adversaries, and possibly two, have played our own cultural norms against us and have executed what may be among the most successful and ingenious intelligence-gathering plays of all time. Meanwhile, it seems that the DoD is either incapable of identifying and evaluating what should no longer be considered an emerging threat—swarming drones and radar target balloons—or they are playing along by acting like they do not know, which could be the case for a number of reasons.

Sounds like we are all fucking with each other's sensors and electronics. 

[XYZ 2154]

6 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

Sounds like we are all fucking with each other's sensors and electronics. 

I mean, that explanation might fit some incidents, but what about for example the “tic tac” incident? That one was visually observed by multiple pilots.

[drt 637]

If you can fake signatures in the electronic or IR spectrum, what makes you think you can’t fake them in the visual spectrum?

[Doc Reeves 6434]

59 minutes ago, drt said:

If you can fake signatures in the electronic or IR spectrum, what makes you think you can’t fake them in the visual spectrum?

Well, mostly because they already did that in scooby doo where are you, season 1 ep 15 and the military will just tell airmen “don’t worry it’s ours- don’t say anything about it”

also, who would we project a UAP and not a squadron of conventional air craft? If you’re going to intimidate the enemy, it should be something that resembles a known threat imo

Edited May 18, 2021 by Doc Reeves

[Surly Bevo 24610]

18 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 Just left a clients house after a meeting, and we were talking about the 60 Minutes production last night he didn't see it . I  recounted what they talked about,  he's an ex-naval aviator F-14s, he said yeah we saw stuff all the time and just said  to each other do you wanna talk about it or do we want to go to the bar ,  have a beer, and forget about it ,they spent  a lot of time in bars.

 

You have to have carnal knowledge, of a woman this time

[bolverk 29111]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I like this theory. It allows the navy to monitor its assets reactions to things that pop up (and test the UAF systems) with out them being aware there's even a test.  

Having said that, unless we have mastered some other-worldy-like-physics-shit the accounts from the naval pilots on 60 Minutes, and what my client talked about yesterday make me believe there's something actually otherworldly going on.  And.... based on the gov't saying yeah there's some weird shit going on we can't explain they're maybe setting us up for an announcement of some kind (that is some wild speculation for sure, but not out of the realm of possibility).

Did he tell you anything other than they'd try to forget about what they'd seen and go to a bar? Like, did he mention any details?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Did he tell you anything other than they'd try to forget about what they'd seen and go to a bar? Like, did he mention any details?

He said we saw things all the time. Some they could figure out, but others that they just couldn't define.

He was a little guarded, and I didn't want to push him, but his comment that yeah there was stuff we all just shook our heads at, and decided to just not talk about it. .. hey let's get a beer....

The guy is a very low key, uber chill type, Annapolis grad.

[bolverk 29111]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

He said we saw things all the time. Some they could figure out, but others that they just couldn't define.

He was a little guarded, and I didn't want to push him, but his comment that yeah there was stuff we all just shook our heads at, and decided to just not talk about it. .. hey let's get a beer....

The guy is a very low key, uber chill type, Annapolis grad.

Thanks. Yeah, I can totally see that type of behavior coming from a Navy pilot and can understand why he'd be a little guarded about it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Thanks. Yeah, I can totally see that type of behavior coming from a Navy pilot and can understand why he'd be a little guarded about it.

 I don't think it was so much he was guarded because it was some top-secret thing or it would make him look like a whack job it was more he just said we saw things all the time .

So do you talk about it or just go grab a beer and get on with your life ?

[Fondren & Main 6598]

12 hours ago, CastHorn said:

These things have been documented in the literature, religious text, and art in some of the most ancient civilizations. I know “alien” has been historically used to describe the ability of these crafts but is it possible that they originate on earth? Maybe some kind of precursor race that predates mankind. 

[bolverk 29111]

12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 I don't think it was so much he was guarded because it was some top-secret thing or it would make him look like a whack job it was more he just said we saw things all the time .

So do you talk about it or just go grab a beer and get on with your life ?

I'd make for a terrible Navy pilot because I'd incessantly blab about it to anyone who'd listen, and all would mock me for being a fucking whack job to the extent that I'd eventually lose my wings.

[El Diablo 4232]

21 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

According to the movie “My Stepmother is an Alien” all female aliens either look like Kim Basinger (1987 version) or same year version of Princess Stephanie. Maybe you shouldn’t be so flippant? Ha!

Something, something...TOMMYKNOCKERS! 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Obama weighs in.

says UFOs are real but we don’t have alien bodies.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dbg8b/obama-says-government-doesnt-have-alien-specimens-but-ufos-are-real

 

Quote

Former President Barack Obama appeared on the The Late Show with James Corden on Monday night to crack wise with the comedian and his band. Corden hit the President—who appeared via satellite—with a number of questions including. When Corden turned over control of the interview to bandleader Reggie Watts, the conversation got extraterrestrial. “All this talk about them aliens,” Watts said. “I was wondering if you have a theory about that.”

Obama fidgeted in his seat. “When it comes to aliens, there are some things I just can’t tell you on air,” Obama said. “The truth is that when I came into office I asked ‘Is there a lab somewhere where we’re keeping the alien specimens and spaceships?’ They did a little bit of research and the answer was ‘No.’”

“But what is true is that there is footage and records of objects in the sky that we don’t know exactly what they are. How they move, their trajectory," Obama continued. "They did not have an easily explainable pattern. So I think that people still take that seriously and try to figure out what that is. But I have nothing to report to you today.”

Obama isn’t the first president to question Washington and the Pentagon about what it knows about aliens. Bill Clinton famously wanted to know what was going on at Area 51 and said he wouldn’t be surprised if aliens had already visited us. Trump’s presidency was marked by an increase in discussion of UFO activity and rumors circulated that he would spill state secrets about extraterrestrials. Of course, it's impossible for us to say what any president actually knows.

A recent interview with former Navy pilots about the strange things they’ve seen in the sky aired on 60 Minutes, lending more legitimacy to the latest wave of UFO obsession. The Pentagon has declassified a lot of information about the phenomenon in the past few years and the intelligence community has a June 1 deadline for publishing a report detailing what it knows.

 

 

[Red Five 40455]

Uh huh. "Two words Mr. President. Plausible deniability." 

[MissingInAction 24433]

Just dropped a UFO in the toilet.

[justhookit 4167]

I’ve seen UFO’s twice while fishing offshore. The first time was brief but the 2nd time we had 6 people on the boat and we all saw it. This was probably 10-12 years ago. Bright roundish object followed us a minute then zipped across the sky to the horizon in about 1 second. I watched it with one other person. At sea level that is only 3 or 4 miles but whatever it was was at altitude.then it came back over us stopped on a dime and hovered for maybe 20 seconds and that’s when we pointed it out to our friends. It did it 2 more times then vanished out of eyesight. Nobody said a word for a minute or 2 other than “you saw that, right?” 

[CastHorn 784]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

Probably. Although does it not seem more rational than an alien species traveling from another galaxy? You’re talking thousands of years of travel even if you’re moving at the speed of light. I think ego cements our idea that we are the pinnacle of innovation on earth in its entire existence. I don’t think innovation is a linear concept, I think it has existed in eras on Earth. Hell, we went from horse back to walking on the moon in about 60 years of industrialization.

[Fondren & Main 6598]

11 minutes ago, CastHorn said:

Probably. Although does it not seem more rational than an alien species traveling from another galaxy? You’re talking thousands of years of travel even if you’re moving at the speed of light. I think ego cements our idea that we are the pinnacle of innovation on earth in its entire existence. I don’t think innovation is a linear concept, I think it has existed in eras on Earth. Hell, we went from horse back to walking on the moon in about 60 years of industrialization.

Oh, I subscribe to the interdimensional being hypothesis which is why I posted Alex Jones.  I’m somewhat in agreement with you on this.  At least I agree that they are likely originating from earth.  I don’t believe in aliens though; just spooks.

[GreenspointTexas 9387]

37 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Uh huh. "Two words Mr. President. Plausible deniability." 

You knew then.... and you did NOTHING!

[CastHorn 784]

14 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Oh, I subscribe to the interdimensional being hypothesis which is why I posted Alex Jones.  I’m somewhat in agreement with you on this.  At least I agree that they are likely originating from earth.  I don’t believe in aliens though; just spooks.

As a studying anthropologist, I’ve always assumed there was singular root culture prior to many of the post ice age civilizations. Greece, Egypt, the Olmecs, Mayans and the Aztecs, the Basques from Spain, the Gauls from France, the tribes of the Canary and Azores islands, the Frisians from the Netherlands, Amerindian tribes etc. They all project similar customs, religious figures, and art almost as if they evacuated to different coastal regions of the world. It doesn’t really relate this this topic, but i think it’s very possible civilizations have come and gone for millions of years. Who’s to say one wasn’t able to avoid extinction? 

Edited May 18, 2021 by CastHorn

[Nicole44 21969]

Why can’t they just tell us? Why can’t they tell us what the fuck they know? 
 

Look I get it. Many many people will panic. But the way things are now half of them (even with proof—no bullshit) will call bullshit on said proof. I get it. You think there is turmoil in the Middle East now? Bring aliens into the mix. But fuck it! Show us all the evidence. 😁 👽 👾 

[XYZ 2154]

5 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Why can’t they just tell us? Why can’t they tell us what the fuck they know? 

They could, but they don’t want to. Why not? My guess is that the military is guarding any and all knowledge of extraterrestrial spacecraft, and military people think in military patterns. Is this a threat? Can we use this to gain superiority over our rivals? Can a rival get a hold of this knowledge? That’s how they think. “Should we tell the public that we are not alone in the universe?” doesn’t even cross their minds. Like, at all.

[Nicole44 21969]

3 minutes ago, XYZ said:

They could, but they don’t want to. Why not? My guess is that the military is guarding any and all knowledge of extraterrestrial spacecraft, and military people think in military patterns. Is this a threat? Can we use this to gain superiority over our rivals? Can a rival get a hold of this knowledge? That’s how they think. “Should we tell the public that we are not alone in the universe?” doesn’t even cross their minds. Like, at all.

Like the X-Files. TPTB made a deal. They know mankind would be pissed off if we knew the terms of their deal. This is what I think. 

[XYZ 2154]

6 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar-story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/

That article is compelling, but assuming that guy is right and Lazar made that shit up in order to not get in bigger trouble, why would he keep talking about it? Why did he appear on Rogan two years ago? What does he have to gain by talking?