Brexit shenanigans

[Ghost of LL 15539]

23 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Expound on the English flag vis-à-vis white nationalism angle. Is it their Gadsden Flag now?

Yeah--kind of something like that.  It's more like an "England for Englishmen" kind of thing.  I don't think we have anything that's really like it because we've never been a very ethnocentric society--at least not within the past 150 years.

There was an article about it in the Economist within the past year.  It used to be the Union Flag was used by those people because UKIP was their political extremist-party-of-choice.  But UKIP has cratered with Brexit becoming mainstream and it losing its legitimizing program.  So now you have the British National Party, some of which has spun off into the English Defence League.  So along with devolution of white nationalist parties, there's been a devolution of their iconography.

I think it's more akin to what the white nationalists would like to do with the Betsy Ross flag.  But that hasn't exactly taken off.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20459]

U.K. economy contracts for the first time since 2012:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/brexit-hazard-warning-lights-uk-economy-contracts-for-first-time-since-2012/ar-AAFzeVu?ocid=spartandhp

[Nivek 16946]

I always thought the EU was a great idea that would never work.  Those fuckers been fighting each other since the decline of the Western Roman Empire.  Still, when you look at it from that perspective, this is a pretty minor glitch.  It's been going alright since the end of the last big war.
 

Well several million dying in 2 previous wars might have dampened enthusiasm.

[kevwun 15809]

A terrible war works at preventing conflicts like it until the number of people who lived through it are no longer a majority.  Once it has slipped from modern memory, the build up to the next one gets going in force.  We are right in the middle of that part currently.

[Tom 2959]

On 8/6/2019 at 12:22 PM, Ghost of LL said:

On a train through the UK now on my way up to Glasgow.

Until recently, the flags in the small towns in England were always the Union Flag.  Once you got north of Hadrian's Wall, you'd see St. Andrew's Cross.  But south of the border, it was always the Union Flag.

That's not true anymore.  Now, in almost every English town I saw the red St. George's Cross flying.  

Yeah--it's hard to take too many things away from a train ride.  But it is striking, especially since the English flag has earned certain connotations vis-a-vis white nationalism.  

Really?  I saw tons of those flags the last time I was in England and didn't think anything of it.  Although it may have only been because it was during the world cup.

[JimmyJames 12271]

On 8/6/2019 at 12:22 PM, Ghost of LL said:

On a train through the UK now on my way up to Glasgow.

Until recently, the flags in the small towns in England were always the Union Flag.  Once you got north of Hadrian's Wall, you'd see St. Andrew's Cross.  But south of the border, it was always the Union Flag.

That's not true anymore.  Now, in almost every English town I saw the red St. George's Cross flying.  

Yeah--it's hard to take too many things away from a train ride.  But it is striking, especially since the English flag has earned certain connotations vis-a-vis white nationalism.  

[Bruno Sardine 147]

Based on recent conversations I’ve had with several U.K. citizens (a total of 4 people, so a very limited sample), who don’t necessarily support Brexit, the economic implications of which horrify them, but who reject the assumption that Brexit is driven by white nationalism, I would say that at least some of the motivation behind Brexit is a fear of white nationalism. Which is to say, they see what is happening with the AfD in Germany and are concerned, generally, about the rise of far-right parties throughout Europe. They do not believe that what is happening in the UK is comparable to what is happening on the continent, pointing to history to make their argument (UK vs Germany in WWII, for example). 

Is there really a good reason to feel confident that the EU is going to be able to manage the spread of ethnic nationalism on the continent? Is it really beyond the scope of possibility that someday the AfD might ascend to power in Germany? Look at what has happened in Austria, Italy, and Hungary (though the Austrian Freedom Party has collapsed for the time being). If in fact history is repeating itself, wouldn’t it better to withdraw from the integration experiment than entwine themselves further with future Neo-fascist adversaries? 

Not saying I buy this argument, but it doesn’t strike me as a far-fetched, irrational perspective. 

The stuff about the flag does seem bad. I do not mean to give the impression that I reject the fact many Brexit supporters are indeed motivated by white nationalism.

[Hornius Emeritus 12476]

Secret government report:  A no-deal Brexit will result in severe hardship for Britain.  Putin must be laughing his ass off.

 

Quote

Britain would face gridlock at ports; shortages of medicine, fuel and food; and a hard border with Ireland if it left the European Union with no deal, according to a leaked government document.

The U.K. seems increasingly likely to crash out of the EU on Oct. 31, and the picture the government paints in a confidential document compiled under the code name Operation Yellowhammer and obtained by the Sunday Times is sobering. It details the ways government leaders are working to avert a "catastrophic collapse in the nation's infrastructure."

Trucks could be dealt 2 1/2-day delays at ports, with significant disruption lasting up to three months, which would affect fuel supplies in London and the southeast of England, according the document.

Medical supplies will also be vulnerable to "severe extended delays," since about three-quarters of the U.K.'s medicine comes across the English Channel.

Fresh food will become less available, and prices will rise, according to the document. That outcome is expected to especially hit vulnerable groups.

The government anticipates the return of a hard border with Ireland, which could spark protests and roadblocks.

 

It also forecasts the closure of two oil refineries after import tariffs are eliminated, causing an expected loss of 2,000 jobs, worker unrest and disruptions to fuel supplie

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/18/752173091/leaked-brexit-document-depicts-government-fears-of-gridlock-food-shortages-unres

[tx 3 putt 77202]

[elfenix 34330]

"i am a division manager in charge of 29 people!  i drive a dodge stratus vauxhall astra!"

[bolverk 29694]

Brexit: EU ‘would block trade deal if Britain reneged on bill’

The European Union would refuse to negotiate a trade deal with the UK if the government reneged on the Brexit bill, EU sources have said.

At the G7 summit in Biarritz, Boris Johnson said it was a “simple statement of reality” that in the event of no-deal Brexit the UK would withhold much of the £39bn financial settlement agreed by Theresa May.

Brussels sources have warned that future trade talks would be blocked until the UK agreed to a settlement.

The financial settlement was a “totemic” issue for EU member states, one official said. “The message will be ‘honour your debts, or we are not even going to start talking about a trade deal,’” the source said, reflecting a widespread view among diplomats.

Responding to the prime minister’s comments, Jean-Claude Piris, a former head of the EU council legal service, tweeted: “If the UK refuses to pay its debts to the EU, then the EU will not accept to negotiate a trade agreement with the UK.”

In the event of Britain leaving the EU without a deal, the painstakingly negotiated withdrawal agreement negotiated between Theresa May and the EU would collapse, including the transition period intended to smooth the way to the UK’s new status. EU sources insist that the core provisions – money, citizens’ rights and the Irish border – would have to be agreed as a precondition for opening talks on trade.

But the UK government could also face fresh demands set by countries hit hard by a chaotic no deal. Diplomats expect that France and other coastal states would seek to make fisheries a key condition for unlocking talks on a future trade deal. “The EU reserves the right to extend the list” of phase one issues, the source said. “The first contender will be fishing, as member states will be facing some very, very angry fishing communities.”

Fishing is one area where the EU stands to lose more than the UK from a no deal: EU-based fleets land about eight times as much fish from UK waters as British fishermen do in EU27 waters.

But the UK would be under intense pressure from business to strike a trade deal with the EU, its largest trading partner. Britain does around half its trade with the EU – the bloc accounts for 46% of UK exports and 54% of UK imports. At the weekend, Johnson insisted the UK “can easily cope with a no-deal scenario”.

cont'd: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/26/eu-would-block-trade-deal-if-britain-reneged-on-brexit-bill

"Conservatives" are a buncha charlatan sheisters on both sides of the Atlantic.

[tx 3 putt 77202]

So brexit is going to start the world wide recession ?

[workswithseed 2109]

8 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

So brexit is going to start the world wide recession ?

Apparently China is looking like it's going in recession right now.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Brexit: EU ‘would block trade deal if Britain reneged on bill’

The European Union would refuse to negotiate a trade deal with the UK if the government reneged on the Brexit bill, EU sources have said.

At the G7 summit in Biarritz, Boris Johnson said it was a “simple statement of reality” that in the event of no-deal Brexit the UK would withhold much of the £39bn financial settlement agreed by Theresa May.

Brussels sources have warned that future trade talks would be blocked until the UK agreed to a settlement.

The financial settlement was a “totemic” issue for EU member states, one official said. “The message will be ‘honour your debts, or we are not even going to start talking about a trade deal,’” the source said, reflecting a widespread view among diplomats.

Responding to the prime minister’s comments, Jean-Claude Piris, a former head of the EU council legal service, tweeted: “If the UK refuses to pay its debts to the EU, then the EU will not accept to negotiate a trade agreement with the UK.”

In the event of Britain leaving the EU without a deal, the painstakingly negotiated withdrawal agreement negotiated between Theresa May and the EU would collapse, including the transition period intended to smooth the way to the UK’s new status. EU sources insist that the core provisions – money, citizens’ rights and the Irish border – would have to be agreed as a precondition for opening talks on trade.

But the UK government could also face fresh demands set by countries hit hard by a chaotic no deal. Diplomats expect that France and other coastal states would seek to make fisheries a key condition for unlocking talks on a future trade deal. “The EU reserves the right to extend the list” of phase one issues, the source said. “The first contender will be fishing, as member states will be facing some very, very angry fishing communities.”

Fishing is one area where the EU stands to lose more than the UK from a no deal: EU-based fleets land about eight times as much fish from UK waters as British fishermen do in EU27 waters.

But the UK would be under intense pressure from business to strike a trade deal with the EU, its largest trading partner. Britain does around half its trade with the EU – the bloc accounts for 46% of UK exports and 54% of UK imports. At the weekend, Johnson insisted the UK “can easily cope with a no-deal scenario”.

cont'd: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/26/eu-would-block-trade-deal-if-britain-reneged-on-brexit-bill

"Conservatives" are a buncha charlatan sheisters on both sides of the Atlantic.

Promises made, promises kept.  The Conservative Party looks to believe that nothing is more important than delivering brexit even at the cost of extreme harm to the U.K.

[bolverk 29694]

47 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Apparently China is looking like it's going in recession right now.

 

[Brisketexan 105168]

Promises made, promises kept.  The Conservative Party looks to believe that nothing is more important than delivering brexit even at the cost of extreme harm to the U.K.

“I said I’d cut off my dick and I swear to god I’ll do it! You don’t think I will but I will! I said I would and I will!”
And they will. Because they said they would. And pulling a stupid stunt is more important to them than retaining possession of their dick.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

So brexit is going to start the world wide recession ?

I don't know shit, but duh.

[swraith 347]

Sounds like UK and EU are both in for a lot of pain when hard Brexit happens. Yet Financial Markets continue to act as if there is no major concern here. Yes the currency continues to devalue...but if even a bit of the fear forecasts of Brexit come true...the UK could be a shit show next year.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland seeking Independence from England would be hilarious as a response.

 

[F250 28793]

24 minutes ago, swraith said:

Sounds like UK and EU are both in for a lot of pain when hard Brexit happens. Yet Financial Markets continue to act as if there is no major concern here. Yes the currency continues to devalue...but if even a bit of the fear forecasts of Brexit come true...the UK could be a shit show next year.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland seeking Independence from England would be hilarious as a response.

 

A United Ireland would be ideal but only if the Unionists go along, which they might considering how big of a fuck up this has been. Although, some of this is dependent on US-UK post Brexit deal. I seriously doubt Congress will fuck over Ireland with a deal that results in a broken Irish borser backstop. Too many children of the Diaspora in the U.S. to make that politically viable.

 

[swraith 347]

I assume any UK-US trade deal would require Congressional approval? I dont see the Democrats giving Trump any legislation as he enters his Election year.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28793]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

“I said I’d cut off my dick and I swear to god I’ll do it! You don’t think I will but I will! I said I would and I will!”
And they will. Because they said they would. And pulling a stupid stunt is more important to them than retaining possession of their dick.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

So having just gotten back from a few weeks in the UK, I was struck by how normal everything is.  While I was there, the government memo came out predicting all manner of disaster should a no-deal Brexit occur.  And the general popular response was a shrug of the shoulders.

Part of it is that Parliament is on holiday.  But part of it is just general paralysis that permeates all levels of society.  It's like people genuinely think that if they ignore it it'll go away.  Or else it'll just happen, and there's nothing they can do about it so they might as well just muddle on.

There's no joy in it from the pro-Brexit people.  There's no dread from the anti-Brexit people.  They're collectively like an old man who is just waiting for death.

[Chad Fuck 17697]

Keep calm and carry on. Stiff upper lip. Etc., etc.

Weren’t there riots there a while back? Yeah, I remember. Once the hammer comes down, there will be again.

[elfenix 34330]

UK:

 

 

EU:

[bolverk 29694]

11 hours ago, swraith said:

Sounds like UK and EU are both in for a lot of pain when hard Brexit happens. Yet Financial Markets continue to act as if there is no major concern here. Yes the currency continues to devalue...but if even a bit of the fear forecasts of Brexit come true...the UK could be a shit show next year.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland seeking Independence from England would be hilarious as a response.

 

Don't forget Wales.

[hayden_horn 11364]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So having just gotten back from a few weeks in the UK, I was struck by how normal everything is.  While I was there, the government memo came out predicting all manner of disaster should a no-deal Brexit occur.  And the general popular response was a shrug of the shoulders.

Part of it is that Parliament is on holiday.  But part of it is just general paralysis that permeates all levels of society.  It's like people genuinely think that if they ignore it it'll go away.  Or else it'll just happen, and there's nothing they can do about it so they might as well just muddle on.

There's no joy in it from the pro-Brexit people.  There's no dread from the anti-Brexit people.  They're collectively like an old man who is just waiting for death.

so, basically like us and trump

[tx 3 putt 77202]

Boris Johnson, we barely knew you ......

[Fudge Nuggets 19209]

22 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So having just gotten back from a few weeks in the UK, I was struck by how normal everything is.  While I was there, the government memo came out predicting all manner of disaster should a no-deal Brexit occur.  And the general popular response was a shrug of the shoulders.

Part of it is that Parliament is on holiday.  But part of it is just general paralysis that permeates all levels of society.  It's like people genuinely think that if they ignore it it'll go away.  Or else it'll just happen, and there's nothing they can do about it so they might as well just muddle on.

There's no joy in it from the pro-Brexit people.  There's no dread from the anti-Brexit people.  They're collectively like an old man who is just waiting for death.

They are more like us than they want to admit. Stay distracted by the latest iPhone and rot your brain with reality tv is not a conducive environment for a thriving democracy. 

[tx 3 putt 77202]

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-to-suspend-parliament-in-run-up-to-brexit-reports/

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by tx 3 putt

[F250 28793]

Is the U.K. on the verge of being a failing democracy?

 

[tx 3 putt 77202]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

Is the U.K. on the verge of being a failing democracy?

 

Vote of no confidence will soon happen

[Ghost of LL 15539]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

Is the U.K. on the verge of being a failing democracy?

 

We shall see.  I think their democracy shit is about to get very real with a no-confidence vote.

[kevwun 15809]

Boris' plan depends on the Queen going along with his shenanigans.  The parts he wants her to play are ceremonial, but no one is going to make make her do them against her will.  I can't imagine the Royals approve of Boris.  What's he going to do if she refuses?

Edited August 28, 2019 by kevwun

[tx 3 putt 77202]

The Queen is about to give old Boris the Heismen stiff arm. 

Wonder if Donny goes on a twitter attack in retaliation 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by tx 3 putt

[Js1 85447]

Just now, tx 3 putt said:

The Queen is about to give old Boris the Heismen stiff arm. 

Wonder if Donny goes on a twitter attack in retaliation 

 

He's probably figuring out if he can suspend the House of Reps' session to avoid further investigations 

[tx 3 putt 77202]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He's probably figuring out if he can suspend the House of Reps' session to avoid further investigations 

Why can’t we nuke them ?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

35 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Boris' plan depends on the Queen going along with his shenanigans.  The parts he wants her to play are ceremonial, but no one is going to make make her do them against her will.  I can't imagine the Royals approve of Boris.  What's he going to do if she refuses?

She can’t refuse his request.  I suppose she can actually say no but that could lead to the end of the monarchy.  It’s like when she asks the new PM to be the PM.  It’s already a done deal.

[WhatTheBuck 28793]

36 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Boris' plan depends on the Queen going along with his shenanigans.  The parts he wants her to play are ceremonial, but no one is going to make make her do them against her will.  I can't imagine the Royals approve of Boris.  What's he going to do if she refuses?

This is the most interesting question, imo. Because it seems like a far right politician wants to suspend democracy and a monarch might be the only obstacle to successfully doing so. It's terribly ironic. 

[tx 3 putt 77202]

She’s going to tell him to get bent, no way she goes along with this

she has the public support behind her 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

She can’t refuse his request.  I suppose she can actually say no but that could lead to the end of the monarchy.  It’s like when she asks the new PM to be the PM.  It’s already a done deal.

That's not true, constitutionally.  It may or may not be true politically.  But from a constitutional standpoint, the sovereign can absolutely refuse to prorogue Parliament.

And in this instance, it would not be the end of the monarchy from a political standpoint for two reasons.  First, the Queen would have the majority of the populace on her side, both as to the argument against a no-deal Brexit and as to the larger question of subverting democratic institutions to achieve that end.  Second, the Conservative Party is not going to lead a charge to abolish the monarchy.  Even recognizing that the Conservative Party is no longer conservative, there is no way they're going to adopt republicanism as part of their party manifesto, irrespective of what the Queen does.

[Asithappens 974]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Is the U.K. on the verge of being a failing democracy?

 

I think the UK is on the verge of falling apart.

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5796]

Maybe watching the UK carry out seppuku will wake us the fuck up. 

[Js1 85447]

2 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Maybe watching the UK carry out seppuku will wake us the fuck up. 

Narrator: it won't. and it didn't. 

[F250 28793]

 welp

 

[F250 28793]

LOL Fucking royals. They Should have beheaded them like the French did a long time ago.

[tx 3 putt 77202]

Damn, thought she’d drop her balls on this

can parliament get a no confidence vote before the shutdown?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

When's the last time the monarch failed to listen to the advice of her ministers? That's her duty. It was wrong to think otherwise.

[Captainant 27685]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

When's the last time the monarch failed to listen to the advice of her ministers? That's her duty. It was wrong to think otherwise.

That's pretty fallacious logic imo. If the monarch just exists to rubber stamp what their underlings tell them, did they ever really have power in the first place?

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

Yeah, I wonder why she doesn't want to play hardball with the PM
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's pretty fallacious logic imo. If the monarch just exists to rubber stamp what their underlings tell them, did they ever really have power in the first place?

The UK monarch is the head of state, not the head of government. I believe the queen has some power like dismissing a PM I don't know if Boris has done anything to met that threshold.  I get that many disagree with this move but that doesn't mean its invalid.

The UK citizens voted for Brexit. Let them suffer the consequences. The US is already learning its lesson about making poor choices in voting.