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Brexit shenanigans

bernorange

By bernorange
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Here's the text of BoJo's speech to Commons today.

Quote

…three years ago more people voted to leave the European Union than had ever voted for any party or proposition in our nation’s history. Politicians of all parties promised they would honour the result. Sadly, many have since done all they could to abandon those promises and to overturn that democratic vote. After three years of dither and delay that risked leaving this country forever in the orbit of the EU.

Now this government, that I lead, has been trying truly to get us out. Most people, and indeed most supporters of the party opposite regardless of how they voted three years ago think the referendum must be respected. They want Brexit done, I want Brexit done, and people want us out on October 31st with a new deal if possible, but without one if necessary.

64 days ago I was told that Brussels would never reopen the withdrawal agreement and we are now discussing a reopened agreement in the negotiations. I was told Brussels would never consider alternatives to the backstop — the trap that keeps the UK effectively in the EU but with no say — we are now talking about those alternatives in negotiations. I was told Brussels would never consider arrangements that were not permanent. We are now discussing in the negotiations an arrangement that works on the principle of consent and is not permanent.

I was told there was no chance of a new deal. But we are discussing a new deal, and this is in spite of the best efforts of the party efforts and this parliament to wreck our negotiations by their attempts to take no-deal off the table.

The truth is the majority opposite are not opposed to no deal, they don’t want Brexit to happen at all. And many of those who voted for the surrender act several weeks ago said then their intentions was to prevent a no-deal Brexit. They have said every day since that Parliament must vote against any deal at all.

I think the people of this country can see very clearly what is going on. They know that Parliament does not want to honour its promises to respect the referendum. The people at home know this parliament will keep delaying, keep sabotaging negotiations because they don’t want a deal.

The truth is the members opposite are living in a fantasy world. They merely imagine that somehow they are going to cancel the first referendum, legislate for a second, and parliament will promise that this time it really, really will respect that vote. And they think the people will, therefore, vote to remain and everyone will forget the last few years.

That is an extraordinary delusion and a fantasy, even worse than the communist fantasies peddled by the leader of the opposition. It will not happen. The public doesn’t want another referendum, what they want and what they demand is that we honour the promise we made to the voters to respect the first referendum. They want us to move on, to put Brexit behind us, to focus on the NHS, violent crime, and cutting the cost of living and that is why I brought forward a Queen’s speech. This government intends to bring forward a programme for life after Brexit.

But some members of this house could not stand that either. Instead of facing the voters, the opposition turned tail and fled from an election instead of deciding to let the voters decide, they ran for the courts instead. And despite the fact that I followed the exact same process as my predecessors in calling a Queen’s speech, the supreme court was asked to intervene in this process for the first time ever and it is absolutely no disrespect to the judiciary to say I think the court was wrong to pronounce on what was essentially a political question at a time of great national controversy.

So we have opposition MPs who block and delay everything running to the courts to block and delay even more, including blocking legislation to improve our NHS and to keep violent criminals in jail, and I think ordinary people outside of this house understand what is happening.

It is not just that this parliament is gridlocked, paralysed, and refusing to deliver on the priorities of the people. It is not just unable to move forward, it is worse than that. Out of sheer selfishness and political cowardice, members opposite are unwilling to move aside and give the people a say. They see MPs demanding that the people should be given a say one week and then running away from an election that would provide the people with a say the next.

And worst of all, they see ever more elaborate legal and political manoeuvres from the party opposite which is absolutely determined to say ‘we know best’, and thumb their noses at the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the European Union.

The leader of the opposition and his party do not trust the people. They are determined to throw out the referendum result whatever the cost. They do not care about the bill for hundreds of millions of pounds that will come with every week of delay. They don’t care if another year or more is wasted arguing about a referendum that happened over three years ago.

All that matters to them now is an obsessive desire to overrule the referendum result. While we want to take our country up a gear, to go forward with an accelerated programme of investment in infrastructure, health, education, and technology they want to throw on the handbrake.

We will not betray the people who sent us here. We will not abandon the priorities that matter to the public. And we will continue to challenge those opposition parties to uphold democracy. If the members opposite so disagreed with this government’s commitment to leaving, they had a very simple remedy at their disposal, did they not. They could have voted for a general election.

…

for two years they have demanded an election but twice they have voted against it. The leader of the opposition changes his mind so often, I wonder whether he supports and election today or whether the shadow chancellor or the shadow attorney general has overruled him because they know the voters will judge their manifesto for what it is, more pointless delay… is he going to dodge a vote of no confidence in me as Prime Minister, in order to escape the verdict of the voters.

I wonder, does he in his heart even want to be Prime Minister any more?… so if in fact, the party opposite does not have confidence in the government they will have a chance to prove it. They will have until the house rises today to table a motion of no confidence in the government and we can have that motion tomorrow.

Will they have the courage to act or will they refuse to take responsibility and dither and delay. Why wouldn’t they, what are they afraid of?

…

I say it is time to get Brexit done. Get Brexit done so we respect the referendum, so we can move on to deal with the people’s priorities the NHS, the cost of living, so we can start to reunite this country after the divisions of the referendum rather than having another one. It is time for this parliament, finally, to take responsibility for its deicisons. We decided to call that referendum, we promised time and time again to respect it, I think the country has had enough of it. This Parliament must stand aside and let the government get Brexit done, or back a vote of no confidence and finally face the day of reckoning with the voters.

 

When Parliament voted to "force the PM to ask for an extension", that was a cop out. Boris says he won't do it. But it's not a stalemate, because Brexit happens on Oct 31. So Parliament has to pass a law repealing Brexit before that date. That is the question. Will they do it? Do they have the balls?

Of course, in the meantime, Parliament will be asked on a daily basis to call an election. It's embarrassing. Many of the MPs know they won't get reelected, and so they refuse to vote no confidence. And they do it because the next Parliament looks to have a Brexit majority.

It's like the final scene in The Candidate, after Redford wins the election, and he says "So what do we do now?" and there is no answer. Parliament is back in session, now they have to do something. But Parliament is just like our Congress, they're a bunch of useless idiots, fools, and cowards.

I lean towards believing they're more corrupt than incompetent, and so they repeal Brexit. But who knows.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1182565/brexit-news-boris-johnson-supreme-court-ruling-proroguing-parliament-poll-latest

Quote

Now a poll from ComRes for The Daily Telegraph, which surveyed 1,027 British adults on Tuesday following the historic ruling from the Supreme Court, has revealed the British public are demanding Brexit happens at the earliest opportunity.

Sixty percent said Britain should just get on with leaving the EU, with 47 percent demanding we should leave with or without a deal on October 31, compared with 37 percent who believe the UK should remain in the bloc.

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34328

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EU will likely reject boris's latest non-workable "plan"

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BRUSSELS — European policymakers said Thursday that a new Brexit proposal from British Prime Minister Boris Johnson was unworkable, heightening the prospects of a chaotic British departure from the European Union within weeks.

Although leaders, politicians and negotiators did not dismiss Johnson’s plan out of hand, they made clear the current offer would not win support from the 27 countries that need to sign off on any withdrawal deal, and they were downbeat about it serving as the basis for serious negotiations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu-rejects-new-british-brexit-proposal-raising-prospect-of-chaotic-break-within-weeks/2019/10/03/ae551d60-e5df-11e9-b7da-053c79b03db8_story.html

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bernorange

bernorange 8362

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On 10/3/2019 at 11:35 AM, elfenix said:

EU will likely reject boris's latest non-workable "plan"

As I understand it, the plan is the same one the EU originally proposed:

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/brexit-irony-eu-rejects-its-own-proposal-k5o6C5rE3EagJIvl2-u3nQ/

Looks like Boris is going to play hardball with the EU now:

Quote

Boris Johnson would veto the EU’s seven-year budget and send a Eurosceptic commissioner to Brussels to “disrupt” the bloc’s workings if he were forced into a Brexit delay, under plans being discussed by ministers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/05/boris-johnson-sabotage-eu-forced-delay-brexit/

We may get some more high theater if they end up sending Farage back to Brussels as the UK's commissioner.

Meanwhile, EU is starting to get some pushback from industry that the UK isn't the only one going to suffer from a no deal:

Quote

...
Conventional wisdom says the UK will suffer more in the the event of No Deal.

I never accepted that bit of economic wisdom, noting in particular, Germany would get clobbered.

Silence is now broken.

The Telegraph reports No-deal Brexit nerves grip Wolfsburg, the German home town of Volkswagen:

Quote

    The German carmakers finally broke their silence on Brexit last month. In a rare joint statement with car industry lobby groups from across Europe, they warned that a No Deal Brexit would have “seismic” and “devastating” consequences for the sector.

    A German study released earlier this year predicted that No Deal could put as many as 100,000 jobs at risk in Germany - and that Wolfsburg would be among the worst hit cities. Already reeling from the Dieselgate scandal, No Deal is the last thing VW needs.

    “We absolutely need a deal with Britain,” Hartwig, Erb, Wolfsburg’s most powerful trade union leader, told the Telegraph.
...

 

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/german-carmakers-warn-seismic-and-devastating-no-deal-consequences-L-Ha-tzdUkmx8bxgMfK5wQ/

Edited by bernorange
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bolverk

bolverk 29694

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1 hour ago, bernorange said:

As I understand it, the plan is the same one the EU originally proposed:

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/brexit-irony-eu-rejects-its-own-proposal-k5o6C5rE3EagJIvl2-u3nQ/

Looks like Boris is going to play hardball with the EU now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/05/boris-johnson-sabotage-eu-forced-delay-brexit/

We may get some more high theater if they end up sending Farage back to Brussels as the UK's commissioner.

Meanwhile, EU is starting to get some pushback from industry that the UK isn't the only one going to suffer from a no deal:

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/german-carmakers-warn-seismic-and-devastating-no-deal-consequences-L-Ha-tzdUkmx8bxgMfK5wQ/

It's not going to be fun for anyone, but the British will surely fare the worst. Here's a couple projections I've seen.

Screenshot-20191004-183644-Facebook.jpg

Brexit-news-1989645.webp?r=1565018050793

 

Edited by bolverk
Should note that those are estimates for a "hard" Brexit. If they stay on course for a "no deal" Brexit, I'd imagine it'll likely pull the EU into recession (warning lights are blinking in Germany already).
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elfenix

elfenix 34328

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bernorange said:

As I understand it, the plan is the same one the EU originally proposed:

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/brexit-irony-eu-rejects-its-own-proposal-k5o6C5rE3EagJIvl2-u3nQ/

the EU proposed NI staying in the EU, putting a border in the irish sea.  this plan doesn't do that (instead putting some sort of border between NI and ireland b/c NI and ireland wouldn't have the same customs, even if the checks are often done at warehouses).  it also does things like give NI a veto every 4 years, which i very much doubt the EU ever proposed.  so, no, it's not what the EU originally proposed, and just reading the links that blogger attaches would show you that.

Edited by elfenix
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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1 minute ago, elfenix said:

Itsnothappening.gif

Alert | Parliament votes to withhold approval of Brexit deal, postponing Boris Johnson’s moment of reckoning
Read the full story: https://wapo.st/33HoVxA

Yep. The can is getting kicked down the road once again. Although Johnson still has to officially request an extension from the EU and he isn't planning on doing so. They are in Trump territory now. An executive that doesn't abide by and even counters established parliamentary procedure.  Also too late to kick him to the curb before the 31st. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11362

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lulz. bercow'ed!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7596847/Speaker-John-Bercow-BLOCKS-fresh-bid-Brexit-deal-vote.html

Quote

Speaker John Bercow today sparked fury by blocking Boris Johnson's latest bid to trigger a vote on his Brexit deal.

MPs denied the PM 'in principle' approval for his deal over the weekend, instead postponing the showdown and obliging him to ask the EU for an extension.

And in his latest dramatic intervention in the Brexit process this afternoon, Mr Bercow turned down a fresh effort to stage the vote.

Tories accused the Speaker - who is meant to be an independent referee on Parliamentary rules - of 'sabotage' to stop Brexit, branding him a 'poor man's Cromwell'.

Mr Bercow insisted the 'meaningful' vote would break the Commons convention against asking MPs the same question twice in quick succession. 

'It is clear that the motions are in substance the same,' he said. 'The motion will not be debated today as it would be repetitive and disorderly to do so.' 

But senior Tory Bernard Jenkin was among those who protested about the ruling in the House. While admitting Speakers cannot always please everyone, he jibed: 'It is becoming remarkable how often you please one lot and not the other lot.'  

A visibly angry Mr Bercow shot back that he made 'no apology' for his decision, saying he had granted numerous debates and urgent questions to MPs of a 'Eurosceptic disposition' over the years. 

The PM's official spokesman said: 'We are disappointed that the Speaker has yet again denied us the chance to deliver on the will of the British people. 

'We will now go ahead with the introduction of the WAB today, with a second reading tomorrow.' 

The refusal means the moment of truth on Mr Johnson's deal has again been delayed, with legislation expected to be published later before key votes due tomorrow.

Ministers now believe they have the numbers to force the package through with support from around 15 Labour MPs, after three years of bitter wrangling and delays.

Westminster is bracing for 'Hell Week' as the PM tries to finalise the law at breakneck speed, with threats of all-night sittings. 

But Jeremy Corbyn and other opposition parties could yet team up to wreck the process, with 'guerrilla warfare' plots to trigger votes on a second referendum and the whole UK staying in the EU customs union. 

No10 delivered a stark message that such fundamental changes would effectively kill the deal - which needs to be 'ratified' by Parliament, EU leaders and the European Parliament.

'Essentially if the legislation in the House of Commons steps too far away from what was agreed on in the Withdrawal Agreement and political declaration, that would bring into question ratification,' a spokesman said. 

Trade Secretary Liz Truss today warned that undermining the painstakingly-assembled deal with Brussels would put the country 'back to square one'. 

man, do i have sympathy for the bolded line above. 

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27601

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It's all so embarrassingly low grade. From the attacks on parliament, to the nonsense about a 'surrender bill', to the political speeches in front of police recruits, to the constant insistence Johnson would meet a deadline he never could, to the attempt to paper-over the fact he hadn't, to his inability to admit there would be checks between Britain and Northern Ireland, to the threats about an election, to the self-sabotaging idiot tactical gambits, to the on-off Budget, to the pantomime Queen's Speech, to Mogg's back-patting over nothing. It's just so nakedly cynical and shambolic.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2112

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit

majority of voters in England, Wales and Scotland believe that the possibility of some level of violence against MPs is a “price worth paying” in order to get their way on Brexit, an academic survey has found.

The poll from Cardiff University and the University of Edinburgh asked respondents what they would be prepared to see happen in order to leave or remain within the European Union.

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This included a question on whether achieving their desired political outcome was worth the risk of violence being directed against MPs.

Most leave voters who took part in the Future of England study thought such a possibility was a “price worth paying” for Brexit to be delivered – 71% in England, 60% in Scotland and 70% in Wales.

The majority of remain voters felt that the risk of violence towards MPs was worth it if it meant we would stay in the EU – 58% in England, 53% in Scotland and 56% in Wales.

The survey did not imply that the responder would conduct the violence themselve or specify that the violence would be severe or even be carried out by those on the same political side as them.

Richard Wyn Jones, a professor of Welsh politics at Cardiff University who co-directed the research, said he had been “flabbergasted” by the results, given the murder of the Labour MP Jo Cox before the referendum in 2016 and recent threats made towards other MPs.

“If we’re going into a general election in which polarisation is the name of the game, it’s very, very hard to see how you can bind these wounds,” said Wyn Jones.

Lost people who responded to the survey also thought that violence towards MPs and violent protests in which people are “badly injured” were likely to occur if and when Brexit happens.

“I think this division is now existential,” Wyn Jones said. “It’s about who we think we are and who we think we’re not. It’s very hard to see how the state of the union in its current form survives Brexit.”

He added: “If we’re going into a general election in which further polarisation is a deliberate aim of the campaigning of at least some of the political parties, you do wonder in all seriousness where all of this ends.”

Of the 4,103 politically representative respondents, a significant number – 47% in Wales, 52% in England and 61% in Scotland – thought that the UK’s departure from the EU would likely lead to the breakup of the UK.

Many were also willing to see the union change substantially if it meant they would get their own way on Brexit. Among leave voters, 74% in England, the same percentage in Wales and 59% in Scotland believed the breakup of the UK would be worth it to take back control through delivering Brexit.

Similar proportions of remainers believed undermining faith in the union would be a price worth paying in order to remain in the EU.

Ailsa Henderson, a professor of political science at the University of Edinburgh and fellow co-director of the research, said the findings showed that Brexit negotiations were “putting the union under considerable strain regardless of whether we stay or go”.

She added: “Both sides are prepared to fundamentally rewrite the rules of politics as we know it to get what they want. Staying in the EU will likely decrease faith in the union. Brexit could well change its borders.”

Despite leave voters’ conviction that Brexit should be delivered at all costs, over half of people throughout all three countries thought that the nation would become substantially poorer as a result of Brexit.

However, a huge number of those who voted leave in the EU referendum believed that economic losses would be worth it – 76% in England and Scotland and 81% in Wales.

Similarly, voters overwhelmingly felt that the potential destruction of the country’s farming and fishing industries would be a price worth paying for getting the result they wanted in the Brexit negotiations.

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Captainant

Captainant 27682

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13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Boris Johnson is suspected of blocking a report on Russian interference in UK elections because of 'embarrassing' revelations about Kremlin links to Conservative donors



https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-blocked-russian-interference-report-kremlin-link-conservative-donors-2019-11

Russian interference? Conservative donors?

W I T C H H U N T

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elfenix

elfenix 34328

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Speaking at a meeting of local Conservatives in Northern Ireland on Thursday evening, the prime minister said: "Actually, Northern Ireland has got a great deal. You keep free movement, you keep access to the single market, but you also, as it says in the deal, have unfettered access" to Great Britain.

This poses a rather obvious question.

https://www.businessinsider.com/video-boris-johnson-accidentally-made-a-perfect-argument-against-brexit-2019-11

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relapse98

relapse98 634

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KERA's Think had an episode about Brexit the other day, it's a good listen.  The guest talks about how he thinks the pro-brexit stuff stems from GB being the center of the world at one time and they are aren't happy about that no longer being the case. They seem to think "You are either doing the trampling or being trampled on". His book is called The Politics of Pain: Postwar England and the Rise of Nationalism

Edited by relapse98
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45692

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8 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

KERA's Think had an episode about Brexit the other day, it's a good listen.  The guest talks about how he thinks the pro-brexit stuff stems from GB being the center of the world at one time and they are aren't happy about that no longer being the case. They seem to think "You are either doing the trampling or being trampled on". His book is called The Politics of Pain: Postwar England and the Rise of Nationalism

Eddie Izzard already talked about this in the 90s

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