Brexit shenanigans

[wildcat09 29453]

55 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

you got me, that was exactly what I said. eyeroll.

I've pretty much voted for Dem in the Presidential race since '92. Nominate Bernie or Warren and I'm sitting out 2020. I'm a centrist Democrat and I would never vote for them.  I don't prefer Trump to them but I won't vote for them.  

And if it takes Trump winning in 2020 to shut down the far left progressive wing of the Dem party, that might just have to be a heavy price to pay.

 

Pretty much, huh? When didn't you?

[workswithseed 2142]

26 minutes ago, Chrispy_ said:

Centrists? Swinson called anyone that opposed their platform racist, hmmm I wonder is there is a lesson here? No, can’t be, it’s them not us.
 

The focus of the left towards London has been happening for some years now, hence the resentment by the working class. Their policies have been shit and they were properly destroyed. It’s now time for actual self reflection, well, at least if they want to be a party that’s taken seriously again.

 

Also to remain.

[Chrispy_ 105]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Also to remain.

Yes, the decision to defy the will of the people was, um, not smart. Of course, there is no remain party anymore, they were destroyed last night. It will be interesting to see who takes over the carcass that was the Labour Party. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13568]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Pretty much, huh? When didn't you?

I'm not sure. I can't recall exactly who I voted for in each and that I even did vote in each one. Part of getting old.  I wasn't the biggest fan of Gore but uncertain if I voted for him.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I’ve come to the conclusion Nice Guy Eddie is Michael Bloomberg. 

[Js1 85916]

 

[GopherRock 1773]

Jo Swinson wasn't the only party leader to lose their seats. Nigel Dodds, leader of the DUP, lost his seat to Sinn Fein's candidate. 

There will be an Irish reunification referendum in the not-so-distant future. 

[Chrispy_ 105]

36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

To be clear, if the race was Warren and Trump, for me Trump would fall into a category of Worst President Ever, and Warren - 2nd/3rd worst candidate ever.  I would rather sit out. 

And my lack of vote wouldn't be a sign that I agree with Trump's actions at all. It's the opposite but I'm not going to vote for a poor option just because I hate the other option. I also don't think my vote or lack of one would impact Texas' results one bit.

I understood what you meant, I just think it takes guts to be honest in this place. I’ve never voted Democrat (I’m in my early 30’s so it hasn’t been very long), but I can remember the apathy I felt toward McCain and making the decision to stay home. I think part of me thought that Obama winning would help race relations, oh how stupid I was. 

[workswithseed 2142]

7 minutes ago, Chrispy_ said:

I understood what you meant, I just think it takes guts to be honest in this place. I’ve never voted Democrat (I’m in my early 30’s so it hasn’t been very long), but I can remember the apathy I felt toward McCain and making the decision to stay home. I think part of me thought that Obama winning would help race relations, oh how stupid I was. 

About to be 27, my first vote was McCain. I thought it was just cool to vote, and have a decision in who voted. Unfortunately the next election was Trump and Clinton, and both were so bad that I couldn't do it. Still that schadenfreude was still great.

[Bateshorn 9969]

38 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Pretty much, huh? When didn't you?

That’s code for “I voted Democrat in 1996 and 2008.”

[wildcat09 29453]

53 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm not sure. I can't recall exactly who I voted for in each and that I even did vote in each one. Part of getting old.  I wasn't the biggest fan of Gore but uncertain if I voted for him.  

So you're not a Democrat. So why should the Democrats waste significant effort tailoring their message and their candidates for your approval?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13568]

24 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

That’s code for “I voted Democrat in 1996 and 2008.”

nah, I specially recall voting for Clinton in '92, '96 and '16.  Obama in ''08 and '12. I imagine I voted for Kerry.  Completely drawing a blank in '88 and '00. I probably voted Bush in '88 because I can't imagine voting Dukakis.

[bolverk 29846]

29 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

About to be 27, my first vote was McCain. I thought it was just cool to vote, and have a decision in who voted. Unfortunately the next election was Trump and Clinton, and both were so bad that I couldn't do it. Still that schadenfreude was still great.

26 years old in 2019 means you were born in 1993 ===> You would've been 15 in 2008 when McCain actually ran (against Obama).

In 2012, you would've been eligible to vote, but McCain wasn't on the ballot.

Your guy was likely Romney, kid.

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

26 years old in 2019 means you were born in 1993 ===> You would've been 15 in 2008 when McCain actually ran (against Obama).

In 2012, you would've been eligible to vote, but McCain wasn't on the ballot.

Your guy was likely Romney, kid.

He's 100% lying about his age

[workswithseed 2142]

17 minutes ago, bolverk said:

26 years old in 2019 means you were born in 1993 ===> You would've been 15 in 2008 when McCain actually ran (against Obama).

In 2012, you would've been eligible to vote, but McCain wasn't on the ballot.

Your guy was likely Romney, kid.

Whoops you're right. Except I was born in December of 92. 

Hey, speaking of which. Will you be in DFW during Christmas time, I'll be back in Texas. 

[Chrispy_ 105]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

About to be 27, my first vote was McCain. I thought it was just cool to vote, and have a decision in who voted. Unfortunately the next election was Trump and Clinton, and both were so bad that I couldn't do it. Still that schadenfreude was still great.

Bush in ‘04 was my first time and I was very excited about it. I regretted not voting for McCain, so I held my nose and voted for Romney in ‘12. Ugh, that really sucked. When I voted for Trump I never thought he would win, its been the most fascinating turn of events that I’ve ever witnessed. 

[workswithseed 2142]

1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

He's 100% lying about his age

Do you think I 100% lie then?

[Hank Scorpio 17792]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

you got me, that was exactly what I said. eyeroll.

I've pretty much voted for Dem in the Presidential race since '92. Nominate Bernie or Warren and I'm sitting out 2020. I'm a centrist Democrat and I would never vote for them.  I don't prefer Trump to them but I won't vote for them.  

And if it takes Trump winning in 2020 to shut down the far left progressive wing of the Dem party, that might just have to be a heavy price to pay.

 

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[Hank Scorpio 17792]

The brain geniuses are out in full force today. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Do you think I 100% lie then?

Fight me in a Publix parking lot

[workswithseed 2142]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

Fight me in a Publix parking lot

Don't shoulder bump me, bro.

[David Dennison 19138]

5 hours ago, Fozzz said:

If the Dems were serious about winning and governing then they would never court people like you. 

The good news is, this might be the last election in which they do.

The Democratic Party is moving left and it isn't going back to the center.

[bolverk 29846]

3 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Whoops you're right. Except I was born in December of 92. 

Hey, speaking of which. Will you be in DFW during Christmas time, I'll be back in Texas. 

Happy early birthday!

No, I'm spending my time here in Austin and West Texas.

[staboner 5017]

On 12/13/2019 at 9:07 AM, sidis said:

boris is going to have a giant majority.  january 31 brexit is on.

the brits have spoken.  and they will now live it.

this is the best way i have had someone describe 'now' to me. regardless of if its Britain or the US, its really just any Western society experiencing globalism over the past 20 years or so

 

[bolverk 29846]

2 minutes ago, staboner said:

this is the best way i have had someone describe 'now' to me. regardless of if its Britain or the US, its really just any Western society experiencing globalism over the past 20 years or so

 

Haven't watched it yet, but I've read the theory of Anywheres (folks who are comfortable moving around and being in new places; being able to find jobs "anywhere") versus those who are rooted in a particular place without much mobility.

[workswithseed 2142]

 

Apparently Scotland is kinda looking shaky.

[Brisketexan 105693]

It's a terrified, hyper-conservative (I mean that in the philosophical sense) pushback against.....a world order that has led to unprecedented peace and prosperity across the globe.  Seriously, no major European war for 75 years.  That hasn't been a thing since the damned ice age.  Across the world, starvation rates plummeting, mortality rates plummeting, life expectancy climbing.

Is it perfect?  OF COURSE NOT.  Some people have been bigger winners than others. But note that it's not so much winners vs. losers as huge winners vs. lesser winners.  Where it has broken down has been greed.  The huge winners have been rigging and continue to rig the game to ensure that they win even more, at the expense of everyone else.  And that is where the worm can turn (see the declining life expectancy rate for white males in particular in the US).  So....what do we all decide to do?  Turn over all power (seriously, ALL power -- to hell with checks and balances and the rule of law, we want kings and strongmen) to....the biggest of the winners, the architects of the past 3 decades of game-rigging.  It's fucking insanity.

We are taking the most successful socioeconomic system the world has ever seen, we've let it be damaged, and to fix it....we're handing over complete and total control to the very people/parties that did the greatest damage.

[staboner 5017]

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Haven't watched it yet, but I've read the theory of Anywheres (folks who are comfortable moving around and being in new places; being able to find jobs "anywhere") versus those who are rooted in a particular place without much mobility.

pretty much. of course its a simplification of sorts. internets made the life of the affluent change radically and we left behind the less mobile lower middle class for the most part, the somewheres. the concepts of middle class work and the way in which we as a society value a stable middle class job to maintain order and a coherent society. also the labeling of the somewheres just as racists is something that i can relate to and understand. 

really makes the irony of something like Trump just downright hilarious. when people are downtrodden we end up with odd bedfellows i guess. 

[bolverk 29846]

I was a teenager in a rural Permian Basin community during the 1980s and saw the rug get pulled out from under a fuckload of blue collar, working class families when oil went bust, so I understand their plight and anger at the world.

But, back then, they moved on and restarted their lives elsewhere. It sucked for us who finished high school to see so many leave and watch the town crumble.

Fortunately, both my parents were teachers (and despite many, many flaws), they ALWAYS encouraged me to pursue an education and even allowed me to go off and spend a year in Europe as a high school exchange student. That experience profoundly altered my perspective forever and ensured that my introverted self would be able to gain a certain social fluency and adaptability.

Because of where I grew up, I still care deeply about small town America and have made a career of it -- traveling across Texas and trying to help rural communities adapt, evolve, and hopefully prosper in the new economic reality.

Some make it and some don't. One thing that's remarkable is that you can tell within a short time, which ones will adapt. It's like each town has a certain overarching personality type. What I've learned is that those that are generally welcoming to outsiders most often succeed while the more insular towns don't.

In some ways, I think that broad generality can also be applied to nations as a whole. Open societies tend to prosper while closed ones typically wither.

Edited December 14, 2019 by bolverk

[Brisketexan 105693]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

What I've learned is that those that are generally welcoming to outsiders most often succeed while the more insular towns don't.

In some ways, I think that broad generality can also be applied to nations as a whole. Open societies tend to prosper while closed ones typically wither.

I'm outta rep for the day, but that's solid gold and on-point.

[bolverk 29846]

38 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

 

Apparently Scotland is kinda looking shaky.

It's quite possible the Brexiteers inadvertently opened the Pandora Box of making separatism seem like a viable solution on the island and it could come to bite them in the ass.

[Fozzz 152]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's a terrified, hyper-conservative (I mean that in the philosophical sense) pushback against.....a world order that has led to unprecedented peace and prosperity across the globe.  Seriously, no major European war for 75 years.  That hasn't been a thing since the damned ice age.  Across the world, starvation rates plummeting, mortality rates plummeting, life expectancy climbing.

Is it perfect?  OF COURSE NOT.  Some people have been bigger winners than others. But note that it's not so much winners vs. losers as huge winners vs. lesser winners.  Where it has broken down has been greed.  The huge winners have been rigging and continue to rig the game to ensure that they win even more, at the expense of everyone else.  And that is where the worm can turn (see the declining life expectancy rate for white males in particular in the US).  So....what do we all decide to do?  Turn over all power (seriously, ALL power -- to hell with checks and balances and the rule of law, we want kings and strongmen) to....the biggest of the winners, the architects of the past 3 decades of game-rigging.  It's fucking insanity.

We are taking the most successful socioeconomic system the world has ever seen, we've let it be damaged, and to fix it....we're handing over complete and total control to the very people/parties that did the greatest damage.

lol life expectancy is declining overall in the US and it’s also declining for many people in the UK as well.  I don’t blame people for lashing out at this system when they are not sharing in the prosperity. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Fozzz

[workswithseed 2142]

I think you're not wrong, but also think there needs to be at least slow growth. Too much for a small town will make it too cramp. 

I think anything on 377 is about the right pace for small towns to grow. When I was young, Aubrey was a small town, but grew pretty big by the time I left Pilot Point. I think Pilot Point will see a growth like that pretty soon.

Edited December 14, 2019 by workswithseed

[Fozzz 152]

Brisket, isn’t your wife work at a church or something?  I hope she does not also hold such a condescending view towards her fellow man as you. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12517]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol life expectancy is declining overall in the US and it’s also declining for many people in the UK as well.  I don’t blame people for lashing out at this system when they are not sharing in the prosperity. 

 

Life expectancy among women has remained stable.  Life expectancy in the US is declining "overall"  because it is declining in white males, and it is declining in white males because of suicide and drug overdoses.

[Fozzz 152]

14 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

Life expectancy among women has remained stable.  Life expectancy in the US is declining "overall"  because it is declining in white males, and it is declining in white males because of suicide and drug overdoses.

Health outcomes are either stagnating or worsening for demographics other than white males.  Also, does the fact that suicides and drug overdoses somehow absolve the system of its failures?  I guess they deserved it. 

[Brisketexan 105693]

lol life expectancy is declining overall in the US and it’s also declining for many people in the UK as well.  I don’t blame people for lashing out at this system when they are not sharing in the prosperity. 

Lashing out at the system? No, I don’t blame them in some respect. Seeking succor in the authoritarian leadership of the very type of folks who gamed and broke the system? Deciding that poor minorities and foreigners are the real reason for their plight? Fuck yeah I blame them for that.

Health care sucks ass. The folks they are running to are the very ones who have degraded it and have fought tooth and nail against improving it. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is fucking stupid, and I’ll call it stupid all day long.

[Homercles 10206]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Haven't watched it yet, but I've read the theory of Anywheres (folks who are comfortable moving around and being in new places; being able to find jobs "anywhere") versus those who are rooted in a particular place without much mobility.

When the breadth of your experience is very narrow, small things tend to become all-encompassing.  My father went active duty USAF in 1990 and it took me to Illinois, Texas and Turkey while I was growing up.  I was constantly exposed to new people, ideas, cultures and had to learn to adapt as I was always in a school ‘on the economy’ where I was an outsider   

That experience of having to live off base in the village next to Incirlik was second to none in shaping me...I learned quickly that the world isn’t full of Americans when that first morning in our apartment off-base, we went to the van as we had business on the base but found a cow tied to its bumper.  It was Sunday, market day, and it was as good a place as any to store your cow. 
 

In addition I was regularly exposed to how vastly different enlisted are treated (vs my office father) and, more importantly, saw how dad treated those of all rank...commissioned, airmen, NCO, etc...the same.  They loved him for it.  I left Incirlik feeling like a worldly individual.  
 

His next PCS was to Shepherd in WF, and I went to HS in Burkburnett.  It’s like they all graduated high school, married each other, and then their kids repeated the cycle 18 years later.  Many of those people had no experience with the world outside their ex-boomtown and their views on race, women, technology, the economy, equal rights, etc all reflected that of their grandparents from the 50’s.  I couldn’t wait to get out of there.  
 

I was fortunate to have a job that sent me to India, all over the phils (8 different Filipino cities), Central America, and Malaysia.  Often for a month or two where I trained agents of another culture.  I get along so well with Indian people because I treat them with respect and can crack jokes about my kids confusing Dewali with Christmas due to all the lights in our neighborhood as we are probably 1/3rd Indian at least.  
 

Point of this novel being is I pity people who didn’t have the means, ambition or upbringing to go see the world or learn more about it. I was lucky in that it was forced on me due to my fathers career choice...I actually thanked him once for that choice and how it’s shaped me, the man almost cried as he thought we resented him for shredding our roots in New York State.  No way, dad...and I still shake the hands of enlisted in uniform at the airport who are obviously deploying/returning.   

[FondrenRoad 4378]

17 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

Life expectancy among women has remained stable.  Life expectancy in the US is declining "overall"  because it is declining in white males, and it is declining in white males because of suicide and drug overdoses.

 

17 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Health outcomes are either stagnating or worsening for demographics other than white males.  Also, does the fact that suicides and drug overdoses somehow absolve the system of its failures?  I guess they deserved it. 

I get that the CDC believes that suicide/OD increases were the cause of a recent 0.1 year decrease in overall life expectancy.  And while they need to be addressed, they still remain a statistically insignificant cause of death.  Japan's suicide rate is significantly higher than ours, and they outlive us pretty easily.

We have been outpaced in life expectancy for years by Europe and Japan/S Korea.  Much of this is related to sedentary lifestyle issues which cause obesity related health issues and have caused us to begin facing typically old-aged health issues at earlier ages.

For whatever reason, the UK sees many of the same problems as us.  It makes less sense for them since their cities and town pre-date the automobile.  Perhaps our shared language made America's lazy culture too accessible to them. 

Also, as for Brexit and Trumpism, there is no shortage of shitty dying towns in Continental Europe and Japan.  It is interesting that, while they face some nationalist issues of their own, there has been no massive groundswell of fearmongering rhetoric like we and England have seen.  I think some of that can be attributed to the fact that Russian influencers can get things done in English, but struggle with natural language in the other countries they may want to affect.

[workswithseed 2142]

I mean Japan is pretty damn Isolationists as it is too. They have a strong culture and like it that way. 

[bolverk 29846]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Also, as for Brexit and Trumpism, there is no shortage of shitty dying towns in Continental Europe and Japan.  It is interesting that, while they face some nationalist issues of their own, there has been no massive groundswell of fearmongering rhetoric like we and England have seen.  I think some of that can be attributed to the fact that Russian influencers can get things done in English, but struggle with natural language in the other countries they may want to affect.

Hungary certainly has. Poland is on the brink. Greece and Italy have dabbled in it some.

[bolverk 29846]

41 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I mean Japan is pretty damn Isolationists as it is too. They have a strong culture and like it that way. 

And their country is literally dying a slow death.

ETA:

Birth and death statistics show that the pace of Japan's population collapse is speeding up, The Japan Times reported.

About 127 million people live in Japan. The population could drop below the 100 million mark by 2049, according to the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research.

Not only is Japan expected to enter a long period of population decline, but also its inhabitants are aging out of the workforce. By 2036, one in three people will be elderly, researchers project.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline 

Edited December 14, 2019 by bolverk

[FondrenRoad 4378]

38 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I mean Japan is pretty damn Isolationists as it is too. They have a strong culture and like it that way. 

 

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

And their country is literally dying a slow death.

Yes and yes. However, they are also far more likely to just let a town die and move to the city without complaint. There aren't very many Japanese people left who live outside the commuter zone of a major city. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Hungary certainly has. Poland is on the brink. Greece and Italy have dabbled in it some.

2 of those are Warsaw Pact countries which never received the post WW2 memo regarding ethnonationalism. The other 2 are on the verge of actual economic collapse. 

There's a reason that German ethnonationalism is big in former East Germany and not a big thing in the West. Most of the EU's nationalist issues come from rapid expansion into formerly Russian vassal states. The UK is the true outlier. 

It will be interesting to see what happens now. I think the opportunity is finally there for a soft brexit which could work out for everyone. There is still not enough Tory support for a hard or no deal brexit. But, I think even if they sneak into a Norway deal while pretending it is something else, Scotland and Northern Ireland may bolt anyway. 

[workswithseed 2142]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

And their country is literally dying a slow death.

Yeah, but they are okay with it, it'll have to stable out sometime, if not the govt would probably do more than just pay people to have kids.

You gotta respect Poland and all the Iron Curtain nation's who had to keep their identity hidden for an overarching agenda. Poles are some fucking Winged Hassars when it comes to Communism. Very religious and very proud of kicking the ruskies ass the first time when they tried to invade.

[Hornius Emeritus 12517]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

And their country is literally dying a slow death.

ETA:

Birth and death statistics show that the pace of Japan's population collapse is speeding up, The Japan Times reported.

About 127 million people live in Japan. The population could drop below the 100 million mark by 2049, according to the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research.

Not only is Japan expected to enter a long period of population decline, but also its inhabitants are aging out of the workforce. By 2036, one in three people will be elderly, researchers project.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline 

 

Japan has only 60% of the area of Texas but four times the people. That's Texas without the Panhandle and Texas west of the Pecos but with four times the people.  I think Texas is overpopulated. If Texas were seven times as dense, population-wise, and landlocked, I'd probably think twice about adding another Texan.

[F250 28988]

Big win for the nationalists in the United Kingdom, er...  I mean England because nationalists around the UK won and the Scots and Northern Irish are prepared to get the fuck out of the U.K.

This has been really fascinating to follow. On one hand, I am a globalist but for personal and family reasons I've always pulled for Irish Republicans. Now due to a strong surge of English nationalism, for the first time ever a majority of Irish nationalists have been elected in Northern Ireland. Which means there is a huge path to Irish independence from the U.K. where they will get to participate in the globalist E.U. thanks to English nationalism. Pretty cool how all of this is working out.

[Js1 85916]

32 minutes ago, F250 said:

Big win for the nationalists in the United Kingdom, er...  I mean England because nationalists around the UK won and the Scots and Northern Irish are prepared to get the fuck out of the U.K.

This has been really fascinating to follow. On one hand, I am a globalist but for personal and family reasons I've always pulled for Irish Republicans. Now due to a strong surge of English nationalism, for the first time ever a majority of Irish nationalists have been elected in Northern Ireland. Which means there is a huge path to Irish independence from the U.K. where they will get to participate in the globalist E.U. thanks to English nationalism. Pretty cool how all of this is working out.

It would be fascinating if America’s flaming dumpster fire didn’t hog all the headlines around the world. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

On 12/13/2019 at 7:24 PM, Brisketexan said:

Health care sucks ass. The folks they are running to are the very ones who have degraded it and have fought tooth and nail against improving it. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is fucking stupid, and I’ll call it stupid all day long.

No shit. Calling people stupid is just about all you do. Spreading the Chrismas cheer and all. So bold and brave.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[Brisketexan 105693]

No shit. Calling people stupid is just about all you do. Spreading the Chrismas cheer and all. So bold and brave.

On the bright side, I don’t need to waste a second calling you stupid.