Brexit shenanigans

[Brisketexan 105177]

Is this the start of the we done fucked up falling on the sword? Brexit is what happens when a whole party of idiots get played by a coordinated Russian disinformation program. We're seeing the same shit with the US Republicans. 
 
https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/short_news/brexit-leader-sorry-for-damage-to-eu-relations-calls-for-humility/
Leading Brexiteer Steve Baker emerged as an unlikely peacemaker on Sunday, telling Conservative party delegates that he and other Brexiteers needed to show “humility” and accept their responsibility for the damage done to EU relations during the Brexit process.
Speaking at the party’s annual conference in Birmingham, Baker, a former chair of the European Research Group, which supported a hard Brexit, said, “I was one who perhaps acted with the most ferocious determination to get the UK out of the EU, I think we have to bring some humility to this situation.”
Baker, who was appointed as a junior Northern Ireland minister in Liz Truss’s government, added that “it’s with humility that I want to accept and acknowledge that I and others did not always behave in a way which encouraged Ireland and the European Union to trust us to accept that they have legitimate interests, legitimate interests that we’re willing to respect because they do and we are willing to respect them.”
“And I am sorry about that because relations with Ireland are not where they should be, and we will need to work extremely hard to improve them, and I know that we are doing so,” he said.
Baker said that he had used the state funeral of Queen Elizabeth earlier this month to apologise to Irish ministers personally.
It marks the first admission by a UK minister of the damage caused to relations with Dublin and Brussels by Brexit.

You mean….all the fallout that sane people warned would happen….happened…and now it’s time for “humility?” He means “humiliation.”

[tx 3 putt 77230]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You mean….all the fallout that sane people warned would happen….happened…and now it’s time for “humility?” He means “humiliation.”

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[tx 3 putt 77230]

a great watch ...

 

[elfenix 34330]

 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

 

Well, the Chancellor of the Exchequer didn't make it.  And I kind of doubt Liz will.

[GopherRock 1765]

Is there any way the Tories can hold on until January 2025 without having to face a general election?

[HenryJames 66134]

 

[HenryJames 66134]

 

[TwiceHorn 31512]

Tear gas and spiders.  Got kind of a shaggy lilt to it.

[tx 3 putt 77230]

 

[Post Oak 20254]

9 hours ago, elfenix said:

 

The Brits are so good at this 

[TwiceHorn 31512]

Apparently, The Economist stated first that she would have the shelf life of a lettuce.

Edited October 15, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[elfenix 34330]

googly eyes make everything better

[TwiceHorn 31512]

Now there's a blond wig on it.

Gotta say, that British lettuce is holding up quite well, unrefrigerated.  

[tx 3 putt 77230]

 

[elfenix 34330]

go home simulation you're drunk

 

[Rimbo 26018]

UK Voters: "Oops."

[bernorange 8362]

Counterpoint to "Brexit was a failure" narrative:

https://mishtalk.com/economics/contrary-to-popular-myth-brexit-was-not-a-bad-decision-and-did-not-fail

[HenryJames 66134]

[SydneyCarton 48134]

Listen. It's not that my weight loss plan failed. It was a great plan. It's just that I didn't diet or exercise or do any of the other things that were in my weight loss plan.

Imagine writing that article and thinking "Yeah, this isn't retarded." Then imagine someone reading that article and taking it seriously and coming here to post it. 

[Brisketexan 105177]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Listen. It's not that my weight loss plan failed. It was a great plan. It's just that I didn't diet or exercise or do any of the other things that were in my weight loss plan.

Imagine writing that article and thinking "Yeah, this isn't retarded." Then imagine someone reading that article and taking it seriously and coming here to post it. 

Sweet lord almighty - THIS.

It's even more than that.  To continue with your metaphor, it's that everyone with any sanity KNEW you weren't going to diet and exercise.  You have a demonstrated track record of failing to diet or exercise.  Your brain is led by the impulsive and undisciplined part, with zero track record of "buckling down and showing self-discipline."  Embarking on a plan that depends on that person to be something it is not and has shown no inclination to be, is EXACTLY WHY YOU DON'T EMBARK ON THAT PLAN.

These quotes were gems:

Quote

I responded to my friend that failure is a perception because Britain did none of the things to make Brexit work.

Consider UK policy after Brexit: No tax cuts, no trade deal with the US or China, No dismantling of inept EU rules and regulations, no progress on things like artificial intelligence or energy. 

This is not a failure of Brexit, it is a failure to take advantage of things possible without being tied to the EU. 

.......

Yep, the Tories totally blew the aftermath of Brexit. But those are policy errors that do not make Brexit unwise.

THE FUCKING TORIES WERE THE ONES WHO WANTED IT.  And anyone who wasn't deranged KNEW they would blow it.  They had no fucking plan, they had no fucking spine, and they had no fucking leadership to get it done.

For fuck's sake, it's why a shitload of us have voted against various Capitol Metro rail plans for decades: "Brisket, don't you agree that some sort of rail system is a good idea, and could benefit our public transport network?"  Yes, I do.  But I have consistently voted no.  WHY?  Because a plan is only as good as its execution, and those who would execute it....and Cap Metro can't get it done.

Brexit was fantasy land bullshit that incorporated a fairytale version of a country, a political party, leadership, and citizenry to make it work.  And, since fairytales aren't real, it did what it was expected to do by those of us in reality land: it failed.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Brisketexan

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

“Well, of course it could be done. Anything could be done. But it only is done if it's done. Show me the levels. The bet is the levels.”

”But I don’t want the levels.”

”That’s the bet!”

[Neonmoon 38129]

What is MishTalk?

oh Nevermind, this make sense now 

Quote

On my “MishTalk” global economics blog, I write several articles a day on the global economy. Topics include interest rates, central bank policy, gold and precious metals, jobs, and economic reports, all from an Austrian Economic perspective.

 

[SydneyCarton 48134]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What is MishTalk?

oh Nevermind, this make sense now 

 

What, no Bitcoin? Also the Austrian perspective. Austria. A tiny economy skewing more fascist by the day.

[Genco 3041]

[Bama Chick 28596]

Gotdamn. I need to drive up to the Tennessee border and buy a lottery ticket or something.

All kinds of my wishes are being fulfilled on this awesome Friday!

[Genco 3041]

3 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Gotdamn. I need to drive up to the Tennessee border and buy a lottery ticket or something.

The most surprising thing I've learned today is that Ala-fucking-Bama doesn't have a state lottery.

[Bama Chick 28596]

The most surprising thing I've learned today is that Ala-fucking-Bama doesn't have a state lottery.

lol the combination of Southern Baptists, Poarch Creek Indians and lobbyists for business interests in Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida and Louisiana = no lottery

[Ghost of LL 15539]

6 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Gotdamn. I need to drive up to the Tennessee border and buy a lottery ticket or something.

All kinds of my wishes are being fulfilled on this awesome Friday!
 

Fun fact: one cannot resign from Parliament. He has to be appointed by the King to some ancient and ridiculous position like the Lord Steward of the Northumbrian Quiznos that would render him ineligible to hold a seat in the Commons.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19127]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:06 PM, SydneyCarton said:

What, no Bitcoin? Also the Austrian perspective. Austria. A tiny economy skewing more fascist by the day.

Austrian School of Economics...founded in the late 19th century due to a methodology dispute with the German School.  

[Ghost of LL 15539]

Incidentally, Labour won the by-election yesterday in Tamworth and Mid Bedfordshire--both are flips from the Tories.

Tamworth is particularly notable.  It's in the West Midlands, and has been a safe Tory seat forever.  On the Tory list, it is currently rated as the 55th safest constituency.  

And the loss wasn't particularly close--about 1,000 votes out of about 25,000 cast.

If the Tories can't hold Tamworth, then they're looking at an absolutely catastrophic general election in a year.  I mean, just . . . fuuuuuuck.

[Js1 85449]

Can’t wait 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

50 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Incidentally, Labour won the by-election yesterday in Tamworth and Mid Bedfordshire--both are flips from the Tories.

Tamworth is particularly notable.  It's in the West Midlands, and has been a safe Tory seat forever.  On the Tory list, it is currently rated as the 55th safest constituency.  

And the loss wasn't particularly close--about 1,000 votes out of about 25,000 cast.

If the Tories can't hold Tamworth, then they're looking at an absolutely catastrophic general election in a year.  I mean, just . . . fuuuuuuck.

You got me searching. One problem with the Tories in Tamworth was that the previous officeholder, a male conservative, was caught in a scandal of groping other men. He was Tamworth’s MP for 13 years. That kind of misbehavior can lead to a party switch in an election especially in that direction.

[Biff Tannen 45695]

55 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Incidentally, Labour won the by-election yesterday in Tamworth and Mid Bedfordshire--both are flips from the Tories.

Tamworth is particularly notable.  It's in the West Midlands, and has been a safe Tory seat forever.  On the Tory list, it is currently rated as the 55th safest constituency.  

And the loss wasn't particularly close--about 1,000 votes out of about 25,000 cast.

If the Tories can't hold Tamworth, then they're looking at an absolutely catastrophic general election in a year.  I mean, just . . . fuuuuuuck.

Yeah, because the Brits are actually somewhat able to see the error of their ways, what with the collapse of the empire and such.  I will continue to my dying breath saying that the concept of American Exceptionalism is the downfall of our society.  

[Js1 85449]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You got me searching. One problem with the Tories in Tamworth was that the previous officeholder, a male conservative, was caught in a scandal of groping other men. He was Tamworth’s MP for 13 years. That kind of misbehavior can lead to a party switch in an election especially in that direction.

It can, but Labour is still polling +20 over the Tories.  That really hasn't changed at all since Sunak became PM.  

[smokebomb 357]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

It can, but Labour is still polling +20 over the Tories.  That really hasn't changed at all since Sunak became PM.  

My guess is that it is partly due to Jeremy Corbyn stepping down as Labour Party leader. Corbyn was the best thing to happen to the Tories in a decade. 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

25 minutes ago, smokebomb said:

My guess is that it is partly due to Jeremy Corbyn stepping down as Labour Party leader. Corbyn was the best thing to happen to the Tories in a decade. 

You're right that Corbyn's departure makes Labour a viable alternative.  

But let's not ignore the fact that the British people are eager for an alternative.  There is now a pretty clear consensus among British voters that Brexit was a mistake.  And it's pretty widely accepted that Brexit came about because the Tories--led by Boris Johnson--lied to the voters.  So the Tories were always going to be vulnerable to the opposition.

[Js1 85449]

UK also having a COL crisis and the whole PM drama made our Speaker drama lion tame

[G650 14271]

7 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I mean, just . . . fuuuuuuck

You mean yaaaaaaaaayyyy

[Biff Tannen 45695]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

.  And it's pretty widely accepted that Brexit came about because the Tories--led by Boris Johnson--lied to the voters.

Let’s not forget the fucking bus ad or whatever that went viral and was just Russian disinformation.  God damn this simulation. 

[Homercles 10206]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:01 PM, Neonmoon said:

What is MishTalk?

oh Nevermind, this make sense now 

 

Oh shit how could I forget that one on my running list of ‘red flags predictive of far right tendencies’?  Precious metals talk.  
 

Other greatest hits include excessive American flags, Trump and 1776 paraphernalia, thin blue line, 2A/come and take it, bald + goatee and Joe Rogan speak.  

In fact I’m sitting behind a ‘checks all the boxes’ ham planet right now at my daughters gymnastics class.  Every week she parks her Trump sticker-laden Expedition in the handicap space, uses her phone and purse to take up three chairs, and wears some kind of gun-related shirt.  

[Bookman 4639]

21 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Let’s not forget the fucking bus ad or whatever that went viral and was just Russian disinformation.  God damn this simulation. 

Of course, the British people were too fucking stupid to realize they were being lied to. Not that we as Americans can say anything about that.

[Js1 85449]

Hard to see the Tories turning it around in the next year. Manifesting a Labour blowout on Halloween 2024 followed by a big blue victory in November 

[bolverk 29695]

Northern Ireland Has a Sinn Fein Leader. It’s a Landmark Moment.
The idea of a first minister who supports closer ties to the Republic of Ireland — let alone one from Sinn Fein, a party with historic ties to the Irish Republican Army — was once unthinkable. On Saturday, it became reality.

As Michelle O’Neill walked down the marble staircase in Northern Ireland’s Parliament building on the outskirts of Belfast on Saturday, she appeared confident and calm. She smiled as applause erupted from supporters in the balcony. Only the seriousness of her gaze conveyed the gravity of the moment.

The political party she represents, Sinn Fein, was shaped by the decades-long, bloody struggle of Irish nationalists in the territory who dreamed of reuniting with the Republic of Ireland and undoing the 1921 partition that has kept Northern Ireland under British rule.

Now, for the first time, a Sinn Fein politician holds Northern Ireland’s top political office, a landmark moment for the party and for the broader region as a power-sharing government is restored. The first minister role had previously always been held by a unionist politician committed to remaining part of the United Kingdom.

“As first minister, I am wholeheartedly committed to continuing the work of reconciliation between all our people,” Ms. O’Neill said, noting that her parents and grandparents would never have imagined that such a day would come. “I would never ask anyone to move on, but what I can ask is for us to move forward.”

The idea of a nationalist first minister in Northern Ireland, let alone one from Sinn Fein, a party with historic ties to the Irish Republican Army, was indeed once unthinkable.

But the story of Sinn Fein’s transformation — from a fringe party that was once the I.R.A.’s political wing, to a political force that won the most seats in Northern Ireland’s 2022 elections — is also the story of a changing political landscape and the results of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, which ended the decades-long sectarian conflict known as the Troubles.

“It’s certainly symbolically very significant,” said Katy Hayward, a professor of political sociology at Queen’s University, Belfast. “It tells us just quite how far Northern Ireland has come, and in many ways the success of the Good Friday agreement and use of democratic and peaceful means of achieving cooperation.”

It is not yet clear what a Sinn Fein first minister will mean for the hopes of those who want to reunite the island after a century of separation. Although Mary Lou McDonald, the president of Sinn Fein, who leads the opposition in the Republic of Ireland’s Parliament, said this past week that the prospect of a united Ireland was now in “touching distance,” experts believe it remains far off.

For now, the territory’s two main political powers — unionists and nationalists — are locked together in the power-sharing arrangement that was laid out in the Good Friday Agreement.

That arrangement had collapsed over the question of how the political powers of Northern Ireland see themselves after Brexit.

cont'd:

Spoiler

Northern Ireland’s leading unionist party, the Democratic Unionists, quit the government in 2022, in the wake of Britain’s exit from the European Union, which had placed a trading border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Wanting to safeguard ties to Britain, the D.U.P. feared that the sea border was the first step to tearing them apart.

Its boycott of the assembly ended this past week after the British government agreed to reduce customs checks, strengthen Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom and hand over 3.3 billion pounds, about $4 billion, in financial sweeteners.

Because it had the most unionist seats in the 2022 elections, the D.U.P. had the right to nominate the deputy first minister on Saturday — Emma Little-Pengelly, who will work alongside Ms. O’Neill.

“The past with all of its horrors can never be forgotten,” Ms. Little-Pengelly said as she described being a child during the Troubles and seeing the devastation of an I.R.A. bomb outside her house when she was 11. But she added, “While we are shaped by the past, we are not defined by it.”

The first and deputy first minister roles are officially equal, with neither able to act alone, to prevent either community from dominating the other. “People like to say here, one can’t order paper clips without the approval of the other,” Ms. Hayward said. But the titles, and the fact that the first minister’s role reflects the largest number of seats, creates a “first among equals” notion.

And Ms. O’Neill’s appointment has inevitably brought to the fore conversations about the prospect of Northern Ireland one day reuniting with the Republic of Ireland.

Experts said that while an ascendant Sinn Fein could provide further momentum to that cause, the party’s rise was more a reflection of the fractures that appeared among unionist parties after Britain left the European Union, rather than a widespread surge in Irish nationalism. Current polling suggests that the majority of the population across the island does not support unification.

“They’ve made the prospect look realistic, and Brexit helped, because support has increased somewhat,” said Jonathan Tonge, a professor of politics at the University of Liverpool who specializes in Northern Ireland, and who has extensively analyzed polling on the issue.

“It’s still got a distance to run,” he said, adding that with an election looming in the Republic of Ireland in 2025, and the potential for a Sinn Fein government there, “it’s huge in those terms.”

He noted that a quarter of a century ago, few would have envisaged a Sinn Fein first minister.

Part of that success is down to Ms. O’Neill and Ms. McDonald, who have helped change perceptions of the party.

“These two women don’t have the baggage of the membership or close association with the I.R.A.,” said Robert Savage, a professor at Boston College who is an expert in Irish history. “They are younger, articulate, popular and astute at addressing the concerns, particularly of younger people.”

Ms. O’Neill, 47, comes from a prominent republican family in Cork, a county on Ireland’s southern coast. Her father, who served time in prison for being an I.R.A. member, later became a Sinn Fein politician. But she has already made an effort to frame herself as a first minister for all. She attended both Queen Elizabeth II’s funeral and the coronation of King Charles III last year.

Many unionists associate Sinn Fein with its I.R.A. history, as do some nationalists and those who do not identify with either group. But increasingly, particularly among a younger cohort, the party has proved appealing.

In the Republic of Ireland, the party won the popular vote in 2020, partly by focusing attention on social issues like housing and positioning itself as an alternative to the status quo. But its popularity did not extend to older voters who remember the violence of The Troubles.

In some ways, the growth of nationalist political representation is unsurprising. Demographics have shifted significantly in Northern Ireland, with the Protestant majority’s slow erosion there first attributed to the Catholic Church’s opposition to birth control and then to economic factors like the decline in industrial jobs, which were held predominantly by Protestants.

Catholics outnumbered Protestants in Northern Ireland for the first time in 2022, according to census figures. And Northern Ireland is not the binary society it once was. Decades of peace drew newcomers in, and like much of the world, the island has grown increasingly secular. The labels of Catholic and Protestant have been left as a clumsy shorthand for the cultural and political divide.

A large percentage of the population identifies as neither religion. And when it comes to political attitudes, the largest single group — 38 percent — regards itself as neither nationalist nor unionist, according to the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey.

Since Brexit, there has been a fall in support for Northern Ireland’s remaining in the United Kingdom and a rise in support for Irish unification. Many voters saw the break from Europe as economically damaging and threatening to cross-border relations, as the island had enjoyed decades where E.U. membership helped shore up peace.

For now, the restored government in Belfast has more urgent issues to address. Last month, tens of thousands of public sector workers walked out in protest over pay, in Northern Ireland’s largest strike in recent memory. The health care sector is in crisis, and the rising cost of living has been felt more acutely there than anywhere else in the United Kingdom.

“Look at what happened when people did get around a table and work to create peace here, and the Good Friday agreement came from that,” said Paul Doherty, a city councilor who represents West Belfast, one of Northern Ireland’s most deprived communities. “I think we need to rekindle that spirit we had back in the ’90s.”

 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

Lot of rumbling on the soc that the PM is going to call a General Election on Monday.  If that happens, the election would be June 6.

[bolverk 29695]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Lot of rumbling on the soc that the PM is going to call a General Election on Monday.  If that happens, the election would be June 6.

That's surprising. I haven't looked at any polls lately, but the Tories haven't been pretty far down in them lately. If they are, why not wait for improvement and the scheduled elections?

[Ghost of LL 15539]

49 minutes ago, bolverk said:

That's surprising. I haven't looked at any polls lately, but the Tories haven't been pretty far down in them lately. If they are, why not wait for improvement and the scheduled elections?

Maybe the thinking is that it’ll only get worse?

[bolverk 29695]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Maybe the thinking is that it’ll only get worse?

That's the only thing I can think of.

Also, pardon my phrasing on that question where I got the word order messed up. It should've read, "Haven't the Tories been pretty far down in the polls lately?" It seems you correctly interpreted my intent.

[GopherRock 1765]

22 hours ago, bolverk said:

That's surprising. I haven't looked at any polls lately, but the Tories haven't been pretty far down in them lately. If they are, why not wait for improvement and the scheduled elections?

I don't get the timing, either.

I've also read that over the winter, there were a couple of by-elections where Israel somehow became the focal point, and they resulted in a third party winning the seat. Maybe the thought is to use that result and somehow end up with a hung Parliament with them as the largest bloc, and form a coalition government from there. 

But if that was the thought, why didn't he call the election then?

On an aside, I feel that there is more knowledge of the Westminster style of Parliament in this thread than in much of the US combined. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Since the UK election has to happen by next January, I would think the Tories don’t want to even remotely get wrapped up in anything related to Trump in terms of both being conservatives. At least on paper. The Tories may be resigned to knowing they will lose the majority but hope to keep some close races.