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Texas basketball '21-'22: Welcome Chris Beard

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elguapo
elguapo

I'm shocked and confused that all of these transfers want to come play for Beard and not the true mastermind behind all of his success, Mark Adams.

SDG
SDG

Beard gets that it's a whole campus thing.  

BurntOrangeBlooded15
BurntOrangeBlooded15

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I'd take a bump down in seeding if it meant we could play in Fort Worth to open the first two rounds.  We got a lotta big games left to play before seeding and that's not just hubris.  Two top-10 teams in KU and Baylor, plus probably 2 Top 25 teams in the Conference tourney.  

But win the ones we should, lose one we shouldn't, win one we shouldn't.  Cliche, cliche, cliche.  But I'm a geography man.  Despite propaganda reports to the contrary---we are not that big a deal in Greenville, SC or Buffalo.  I'd rather get a 5 in Fort Worth than a 4 in one of those shitholes.  Indianapolis would be my second pick, hundreds if not thousands of longhorns from Chicago would make the trek.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49148

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FYI:  Just for informational purposes, there's a thread on 247 discussing Mitchell and his Dad's Twitter stuff.  A tangent discussion occurred about Beard's struggles to retain his top recruits at both Texas and Tech...

From Horns247

Quote

Beard's top recruit year by year, including only top 75 types.

This year Tyson. Gone in December.

Last year Nimari Burnett. Gone after Jan. 5 game.

Two years ago was Ramsey. Kept him for a year.

Three years ago Khavon Moore. Played two minutes for Tech. (He was hurt, so this is a special case, but he then transferred to Clemson and played in 28 games.)

So that's a 25% retention rate. Let's be generous and give him credit for Peavy (2nd best in Tech's 2020 class but a top 60 recruit) staying in Lubbock until after Beard left, so make it 40%.

 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49148

Posted
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6 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

FYI:  Just for informational purposes, there's a thread on 247 discussing Mitchell and his Dad's Twitter stuff.  A tangent discussion occurred about Beard's struggles to retain his top recruits at both Texas and Tech...

From Horns247

 

And a follow-up post from Bierce on 247...

Quote

OK, I've pointed out that Beard couldn't keep most of his top 75 recruits for a whole year.

Now I'll point out the composition of his two best teams (2017-18 and 2018-19).

1 Top 75 HS recruit--Khavon Moore, who played 2 minutes for Tech

1 76-150 HS recruit--Davide Moretti, who could be considered an international recruit, but he played in a prep school stateside as a HS senior

2 151-225 HS recruits--Kyler Edwards, Zhaire Smith

Everybody else was 226+ or a JUCO or a transfer.

Beard can build a really good team with stuff other than the one and done guys.

Beard hasn't done well with the guys who think they should be one and done. Ramsey is the only one to play a whole year. Burnett and Tyson bolted after less than half a season. Shannon, Peavy, Zhaire Smith, and Culver weren't thought of as one and dones when they came out of high school. Zhaire Smith played his way into that category.

So yeah, Beard is a good coach, a very good coach, and (dare I say it?) a great coach. He can be that without letting certain players demand the team play through them rather than happily join the rest of the players in working for the common weal. And players who make those demands should be made to realize how much they can help their draft standing by doing things other than demand the ball and ask the rest of the team to get out of their way. Zhaire Smith promoted himself into a first round pick as a freshman while taking fewer shots per minute than 5 other guys on that year's team. Jaxson Hayes averaged just over 5 field goal attempts per game and became a lottery pick.

A team should be greater than the sum of its parts. I started a thread some years back about how we didn't have that in any year under Smart. Is this year's Texas team better than a sum of its parts? Not if we count Mitchell, Disu, and Tyson's value as a projection of what they were doing on Feb. 1, 2021, but we never had all those guys playing for us at the same time, Disu has yet to fully recover, and Mitchell and Tyson are now gone. We finish over .500 in the conference and that's a win, given the current state of the roster.

Which leads us to the question, why is this the current state of the roster? Injuries aside, the loss of players due to disatisfaction with PT, playing styles, and roles isn't something that should be ignored when evaluating a coach's ability to build a team and a program.

It's Beard's first year here. Those are often rocky. With the exception of Tyson, the new guys he brought in weren't guys he had a lot of time in which to build a relationship. I don't see Allen, Carr, Bishop, Disu, or Askew running away, so that's five guys he brought in staying while just one guy he had a long relationship with and a guy he courted over the summer who left. I'll give Beard a pass on this season, even if I will always insist it was folly to go into the year with just three PF/C types, one of which was still recuperating from knee surgery. But I will continue to watch with interest to see if Beard can retain the top HS players for long enough for them to make plus contributions before they leave and if Beard can combine top hs players with transfers and long-term Longhorns into a happy, well-functioning bunch. It didn't really come together this year.

 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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The entire Beard and top recruits transferring thing is also way overplayed. Top recruits transfer when they don't start or get big minutes. The two FR that were starting at Tech didn't transfer mid season. 

Tyson (6.9 minutes per game and 0 starts). Transferred. 

Burnett (17.7 minutes per game and 0 starts). Transferred. 

Ramsey (31.2 minutes per game and 27 starts). NBA but no signs he was going to transfer. 

Peavy (20.3 minutes per game and 25 starts). Left after Beard but no signs he was going to transfer. 

Unfortunately, most top recruits want to get 20 minutes plus and be a starter from day 1. 

 

 

 

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Ramsey was a one-and-done and that's a knock on Beard?

Burnett couldn't hit fucking shots.  Period.  He quit on the team.  It was addition by subtraction.

Khavon Moore has not done jack shit.

Beard has his opportunities, but wholly fuck...at least get the story straight.

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Ramsey was a one-and-done and that's a knock on Beard?

Burnett couldn't hit fucking shots.  Period.  He quit on the team.  It was addition by subtraction.

Khavon Moore has not done jack shit.

Beard has his opportunities, but wholly fuck...at least get the story straight.

Were't Burnett's minutes cut and that's the major reason he transferred? 

Edited by texasstrong12
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Were't Burnett's minutes cut and that's the major reason he transferred? 

Yeah, but he was a liability.  He didn't want to work through it, thus the "addition by subtraction" statement.

Burnett's stat line at Bama, averaging 17 minutes:

  • PTS
    5.3
  • REB
    1.8
  • AST
    0.9
  • FG%
    28.0

Here is Khavon Moore's stat line for his career:  He averaged 9min a game at Clemson.

  • PTS
    1.8
  • REB
    1.7
  • AST
    0.5
  • FG%
    37.3
Edited by slorch
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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Yeah, but he was a liability.  He didn't want to work through it, thus the "addition by subtraction" statement.

Here is Khavon Moore's stat line for his career:  He averaged 9min a game at Clemson.

  • PTS
    1.8
  • REB
    1.7
  • AST
    0.5
  • FG%
    37.3

True and that's why his minutes were cut. Point being, highly ranked recruits do not like to sit on the bench. 

Somehow this has turned into a negative with Beard from certain people. 

Would you rather have guys like Burnett and Tyson stinking up the joint as FR or try to win games? 

 

Edited by texasstrong12
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Bottom line, a big plank in his vaunted "culture" is that playing time is earned, and that doesn't generally happen at just one end of the floor, with some minor exceptions to role players who get minimal minutes to provide a spark. It's like in the NFL, if you're  RB who fumbles or can't execute pass protection; you're gonna be limited in opportunities.  Beard isn't just randomly pulling back minutes on productive players.  That's why I scoffed at the very inclusion of Ransey in the discussion in the article.  His true Freshman  ass was playing because he produced consistently.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49148

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4 minutes ago, slorch said:

Bottom line, a big plank in his vaunted "culture" is that playing time is earned, and that doesn't generally happen at just one end of the floor, with some minor exceptions to role players who get minimal minutes to provide a spark. It's like in the NFL, if you're  RB who fumbles or can't execute pass protection; you're gonna be limited in opportunities.  Beard isn't just randomly pulling back minutes on productive players.  That's why I scoffed at the very inclusion of Ransey in the discussion in the article.  His true Freshman  ass was playing because he produced consistently.

Coaching players that are expected to be one and done can really be a crapshoot sonetimes.  Beard definitely develops players...  

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Hookem2147

Hookem2147 21200

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Tyson was also a borderline “elite” recruit. Wasn’t a 5 star and was never going to be a one and done type. All 3 guys we are bringing in this recruiting class are better than him. Ironically if Tyson would have just stuck it out for another month or two he would have likely made his way into the rotation with the struggles of Febres and Mitchell leaving.

He didn’t want to play defense and couldn’t shoot in his limited action. If he thinks he’s going to get on the floor at Tech showing the same things he showed here, he’s in for another rude awakening.

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Footballpants

Footballpants 121

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On 2/24/2022 at 11:52 AM, Catdaddyhorn said:

Judging from his career thus far he's usually good for 2 or 3 games where he goes off for 5 or more 3s. It won't hurt to give him spot check minutes throughout the season to see if he's hot on any particular night. His defense isn't bad in my eyes. The main thing he lacks (outside of his shot being broke right now) is the inability to penetrate. 

@Catdaddyhorn

This post has aged well.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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19 minutes ago, Footballpants said:

@Catdaddyhorn

This post has aged well.

Today doesn't count. He needs at least 5 in a game. So we still have 2 or 3 more hot shooting games left from Febres on the season. He usually gets one against either Baylor or Kansas and then he can save his other 2 for the tourney as far as I'm concerned. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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In all seriousness, Febres finding a way to hit a few 3s would really help this team. 

Anybody that can hit some open 3s would be huge for this team. I'm just hoping this wasn't one of Febres random games where he goes off and that this remains consistent. We don't need him to hit 5 a game but 2 a night would be significant for this team. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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Just now, hobbes2702 said:

He’s awesome, like seriously he’s such a huge protection for Timmy on the glass and his rim protection has been way better than I thought he was capable of.

Yeah, I think Bishop is probably our 2nd best player on the roster after Allen. You could probably make an argument he's been our best player for a month. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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i know it's hard to imagine, because it's been, i dunno, a decade or more since we've experienced this, but it appears as if our players are getting better and better as the season goes on. our veteran guards have been pretty much nails lately, Timmy is establishing himself as the go-to guy, Bishop has become a force around the rim, and even Febres was hitting shots today with aplomb. a win vs Baylor would go a very long way towards validating this idea. I love this team, and i love how we've been playing lately. here's to seeing more growth, and more importantly, to seeing multiple wins in March. 🤘🏼 

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4017

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On 2/24/2022 at 7:57 PM, Lobo said:

I'd take a bump down in seeding if it meant we could play in Fort Worth to open the first two rounds.  We got a lotta big games left to play before seeding and that's not just hubris.  Two top-10 teams in KU and Baylor, plus probably 2 Top 25 teams in the Conference tourney.  

But win the ones we should, lose one we shouldn't, win one we shouldn't.  Cliche, cliche, cliche.  But I'm a geography man.  Despite propaganda reports to the contrary---we are not that big a deal in Greenville, SC or Buffalo.  I'd rather get a 5 in Fort Worth than a 4 in one of those shitholes.  Indianapolis would be my second pick, hundreds if not thousands of longhorns from Chicago would make the trek.

Greenville is actually not a terrible place, but I get your point…

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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Moving forward what does everyone think the minutes distribution should look like?

The only thing I've kind of settled on is Allen and Bishop need to be playing huge minutes. 30 minutes a night.  I guess you could maybe throw Carr in this group but there are times when other guards are better than him. 

I dunno, outside of Allen and Bishop it kind of seems like a roster you just get a feel for in the game on how many minutes everyone plays. 

 

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7513

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24 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Moving forward what does everyone think the minutes distribution should look like?

The only thing I've kind of settled on is Allen and Bishop need to be playing huge minutes. 30 minutes a night.  I guess you could maybe throw Carr in this group but there are times when other guards are better than him. 

I dunno, outside of Allen and Bishop it kind of seems like a roster you just get a feel for in the game on how many minutes everyone plays. 

 

I'm convinced all the starters need 30+ mpg. Bishop/Allen/Jones/Ramey/Carr. That's still 50 minutes to divide between Askew, Cunningham, Disu, and Febres. Disu is a shell of the player I thought he'd be. I'm going to assume he'll get a better shot to showcase himself next year. This is not the guy I watched play for Vanderbilt. No knock on him. ACLs are a fucking bitch. Especially major reconstructions. 10 minutes or less at this point.

Cunningham is great for 15-20 minutes of extra possessions, but as people have said, it's murder on my eyes watching him on the court with Askew. Askew had 25 min against West Virginia, and while he didn't do anything eye popping on the stat sheet, the offense looked terrific at times with him on the floor in place of Carr because of foul trouble. That said, the Carr haters (no offense, you guys have your reasons for your beefs, even if I disagree with them) are wrong in feeling like Carr shouldn't be on the floor. Carr is a better player. He's just admittedly frustrating.

I love that we've shortened the rotation. Great time of the year to do it. Jones coming on has been huge. Mitchell's transfer has been helpful in many ways, although I'd prefer he was still available. I don't agree with Beard that this is a national championship caliber team, but they're very dangerous, and they don't quit. 

I'd still like to see Ramey go off again. He's an unsung hero during this stretch because so much of his contributions come away from the ball and scoring. I feel like the team feeds off of his intensity in many ways. 

But no argument on Bishop and Allen. Not sure I think of that as an ideal front court. I wish we had the personnel to play Allen as more of a 3. But it is what it is. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13031

Posted
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Moving forward what does everyone think the minutes distribution should look like?

The only thing I've kind of settled on is Allen and Bishop need to be playing huge minutes. 30 minutes a night.  I guess you could maybe throw Carr in this group but there are times when other guards are better than him. 

I dunno, outside of Allen and Bishop it kind of seems like a roster you just get a feel for in the game on how many minutes everyone plays. 

 

Allen, Bishop, and Ramey I think all need to be played to the maximum they are capable. Carr I think needs huge minutes too. While we are a pretty deep team I think our 4-5 best guys are way ahead of the next guys. Especially on the offensive side of the ball. Love me some Askew and Brock but they still really only work with a specific group around them. I think the idea like you said of just kinda feeling it game to game outside the couple guys really is the way to go.

@SL Xpress nailed it. The starters need a ton of mins.

Also on Carr, he may be frustrating but he is simply too important as a scorer for us to limit his mins.

Edited by hobbes2702
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49148

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Posted

Obvious that Askew and Febres helped pick up minutes for Brock being thrown out of today's game.  Wish Disu was more dependable because only 5 minutes is terrible.  Would like for Ramey's minutes to be a little less -- concerned he might be wearing down.  AJ is probably a 25-30min player.  CARR needs to stay out of foul trouble and play at least 30min per game.

Not having Mitchell really is hurting rotations -- would like for Timmy and Bishop to get a couple more breaks during the game.

Today's Game vs West Virginia

Texas Longhorns
  Min FG 3PT Reb Ast Pts
Courtney Ramey 35 1-4 0-1 5 0 8
Jase Febres 21 5-6 4-5 1 1 14
Devin Askew 25 2-3 1-2 3 2 5
Timmy Allen 36 7-9 0-0 10 3 26
Avery Benson 0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
Cole Bott 0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
Marcus Carr 17 6-6 1-1 1 0 15
Christian Bishop 32 1-1 0-0 4 1 3
Gavin Perryman 0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
Andrew Jones 25 3-11 2-7 3 2 9
Tristen Licon 0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
Tre Mitchell 0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
Dylan Disu 5 1-1 0-0 0 0 2
Brock Cunningham 4 0-0 0-0 1 1 0
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