I hate giving article more attention but, please explain fitness and neoliberalism to me.

[crash_davis 23,121]

https://www.salon.com/2021/03/28/fitness-culture-neoliberalism/

i have NO FUCKING CLUE what this dude is saying. 

Why are Americans obsessed with fitness? The answer: Neoliberalism

"The last half-century may be considered the age of fitness, and it is no accident that it coincides with the age of neoliberalism," Martschukat writes. "Rather than a generalizing call to arms, here neoliberalism denotes an epoch that has modeled itself on the market, interprets every situation as a competitive struggle and enjoins people to make productive use of their freedom."

 

Your book made me rethink why I work out and how I'm contributing to something bigger. And it's really interesting. I'm wondering if you can just briefly explain to our readers what role fitness plays in neoliberalism?

Well it's no coincidence that the "Age of Neoliberalism" and the "Age of Fitness" overlap. In the last half-century we have lived in a society and culture that organizes itself very much through the idea of the market and through market practices, and our society and culture praises autonomy and self-government very much and maybe more than ever before in history. Of course the market and the idea of self-government have not been invented in the 1970s or 1980s, but their power has definitely increased. In this context, our body has become something that we might call a "bio-share," that we try to sell on the market; or, that is taken as representing our abilities on the market.

I've had the pleasure of working with colleagues from sociology who do stigma research. And stigma research very much tells us that fat people are heavily discriminated against based on their body shape; for instance on the job market or also in the education system from early age on. What I am interested in is how fitness produces privilege, because it is considered as an expression of our ability to have control over our life, to act autonomously, to achieve things, and to succeed in this market-driven society and culture that we live in.

 

[Kyle 207]

I think his point is that it is unfair to judge people based on their physical appearance because physical appearance does not correlate with competency. He just wraps it in the standard woke playbook gobbledegook. 

[bolverk 29,766]

Might have something to do with our sex recession.

[Newdoc 3,457]

I can assure you that our country is not “obsessed” with fitness. Half of all adults presently or at one time in their adult life, meet/met the criteria for obesity.  The author lives in some kind of Gold’s gym/crossfit bubble.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Newdoc

[F250 28,881]

I want a time refund after reading this article.

 

[52-80 19,274]

Exercising = toxic masculinity 

[RPM 26,374]

Is he trying to say the fitness trend is turning women into Jane Fonda?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,996]

Author has obviously never set foot in a WalMart

[Kyle 207]

39 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

I can assure you that our country is not “obsessed” with fitness. Half of all adults presently or at one time in their adult life, meet/met the criteria for obesity.  The author lives in some kind of Gold’s gym/crossfit bubble.

I too had that reaction. My first thought was: "wait, I thought we were all fast-food-addicted fatties." That's when I realized he's just bloviating to fit the narrative.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Markets. 
 

the DT is a market perfectly aligned with neoliberalism (extreme economic conservatism/libertarianism). 
 

repeat - neoliberal economics are right wing, not left.

[phdhorn 6,224]

I had to read this shit endless hours on hours while working on my doctorate.  Summary:  too many academics doing galactically unimportant shit, that no one will read, even fewer would care about, and wont change the world except to sacrifice a few tree branches.

There isn't a machine that can adequately gauge the utter uselessness of this pap.

[crash_davis 23,121]

So every time I work out, I kill another peasant farmer in Guatemala because working out means I champion capitalism and shit on the common people?

[BabaYaga 15,332]

All fatties should be put on Fight Island.  To fight to the death.  Winners may return after they are non-fatties and murdered the other fatties in a Thunderdome-style match.  

 

[elfenix 34,364]

19 minutes ago, RPM said:

Is he trying to say the fitness trend is turning women into Jane Fonda?

fonda ain't got a motor in the back of her honda

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

5 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

So every time I work out, I kill another peasant farmer in Guatemala because working out means I champion capitalism and shit on the common people?

Man, the NFL are elitist, mass murderers.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Just now, crash_davis said:

So every time I work out, I kill another peasant farmer in Guatemala because working out means I champion capitalism and shit on the common people?

Not really but funny.  
 

The goal for the market maker is to monetize the human activity. For the peasant farmer, that may mean growing a crop to serve an under-served market and profiting from that activity.  
 

That individual activity will create negative externalities, but that’s another topic. 

[crash_davis 23,121]

it's bullshit articles and publications like this that is poisoning everything. This shit transcends political ideology as there is as much bull shit on the left, like this dumbass article and all the hyper woke bs, as there is on the right, choose any of the disinformation from the last few years. Throw in shit about flat Earth and anti vax bullshit, and well, it's no fucking wonder that everyone hates everyone, distrust everyone, and is pissed about everything else. 

I blame the internet. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,996]

It's Al Gore's fualt

[crash_davis 23,121]

6 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Not really but funny.  
 

The goal for the market maker is to monetize the human activity. For the peasant farmer, that may mean growing a crop to serve an under-served market and profiting from that activity.  
 

That individual activity will create negative externalities, but that’s another topic. 

I don't mean to be a dick. I really do not understand the point the guy was trying to make. You seem to be much better educated than I on this. In addition, you threw out terms that I have no idea what you are talking about: "DT market", "DT is a market aligned with neoliberlism".

Honestly intrigued. Educmacate me, please. Although this may get CR really quickly.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Economist reconciling economic policy with effects. Not much more there. 
 

It’s not really a political topic. It’s economics.  Almost everyone is neoliberal economically. It’s the basis of our economy since the 70’s. There are knock on effects. The economist is measuring them. 

[crash_davis 23,121]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Economist reconciling economic policy with effects. Not much more there. 
 

It’s not really a political topic. It’s economics.  Almost everyone is neoliberal economically. It’s the basis of our economy since the 70’s. There are knock on effects. The economist is measuring them. 

Ok, so how does working out affect economics? 

[crash_davis 23,121]

22 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

All fatties should be put on Fight Island.  To fight to the death.  Winners may return after they are non-fatties and murdered the other fatties in a Thunderdome-style match.  

 

winners gotta eat and they gonna eat well. aint nobody losing weight on that island.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

51 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Exercising = toxic masculinity 

"And free, and free, and free, and free

And free, and free, and free free free"

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/tx8m/intuit-turbotax-free-edition-dance-workout

[BabaYaga 15,332]

8 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Ok, so how does working out affect economics? 

He's talking about Neoliberal, as compared to NeoClassical economic theory.  It was a pivot towards certain tenets of free market policies and decisions, as compared to a prior "managed" capitalistic markets.  

[workswithseed 2,122]

23 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Economist reconciling economic policy with effects. Not much more there. 
 

It’s not really a political topic. It’s economics.  Almost everyone is neoliberal economically. It’s the basis of our economy since the 70’s. There are knock on effects. The economist is measuring them. 

We should be back on the gold standard. Nixon was a fuck up.

[Brisketexan 105,478]

[phdhorn 6,224]

54 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

So every time I work out, I kill another peasant farmer in Guatemala because working out means I champion capitalism and shit on the common people?

You would not believe the utter diarrhea that grad students (and tenured faculty for that matter) in Anthropology, History, English, and [__________'s Studies] put out.  I would almost bet my entire investment savings, that somewhere in some dark, untrodden corner of some library (or never-reachable directory in some storage computer) that someone actually wrote an entire article or thesis on what you said here, without question.  I could almost guarantee it.  And I'm serious.  No question in my mind that someone actually believes this (or at least is decent enough to bullshit about it but not believe it in order to please the prof).

I myself had to write some of this shit just to see if I could do it (and placate the radical mentor leading my grad class).  It's almost literally "what's the most idiotic, far-fetched thing I could ever imagine, the most preposterous what-if I'm capable of connecting?"  And wrote a paper on it.

One of my beauts is that Charles Ives's music was tacitly a signal to males to rape women.  And I got an A on it.  I shit you not.  Laughed all the way to the trash bin.

[TwiceHorn 31,645]

1 hour ago, Newdoc said:

I can assure you that our country is not “obsessed” with fitness. Half of all adults presently or at one time in their adult life, meet/met the criteria for obesity.  The author lives in some kind of Gold’s gym/crossfit bubble.

I think the real phenomenon here is leisure time that has accumulated over the last 75 years or so.

I think Americans of all stripes have more leisure time to eat or fuck off or work out or some combination thereof than ever.

No one in the 20s or 30s worked out.  They didn't have time for that shit and lifestyles mostly kept them on the fitter end of things.  And a lack of processed food.

[Kyle 207]

48 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

it's bullshit articles and publications like this that is poisoning everything. This shit transcends political ideology as there is as much bull shit on the left, like this dumbass article and all the hyper woke bs, as there is on the right, choose any of the disinformation from the last few years. Throw in shit about flat Earth and anti vax bullshit, and well, it's no fucking wonder that everyone hates everyone, distrust everyone, and is pissed about everything else. 

I blame the internet. 

 

[Nicole44 22,090]

Fitness! Exercise is good for you damnit! Lol.

[Brisketexan 105,478]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

No one in the 20s or 30s worked out.  They didn't have time for that shit and lifestyles mostly kept them on the fitter end of things.  And a lack of processed food.

Bingo.  Back in the day, the poor were generally "fit" because 1) they worked in manual/physical labor, and 2) they didn't have enough food to get fat (and what they could get wasn't the kind of stuff that made 'em fat.  I mean, some of them, like, starved.  Today, those same folks are still lacking nutrition, but often not calories.  Cheap, processed food is available.  Yay, progress!

And I still really have no idea what the OP's article actually is supposed to mean.

[Kyle 207]

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

You would not believe the utter diarrhea that grad students (and tenured faculty for that matter) in Anthropology, History, English, and [__________'s Studies] put out.  I would almost bet my entire investment savings, that somewhere in some dark, untrodden corner of some library (or never-reachable directory in some storage computer) that someone actually wrote an entire article or thesis on what you said here, without question.  I could almost guarantee it.  And I'm serious.  No question in my mind that someone actually believes this (or at least is decent enough to bullshit about it but not believe it in order to please the prof).

I myself had to write some of this shit just to see if I could do it (and placate the radical mentor leading my grad class).  It's almost literally "what's the most idiotic, far-fetched thing I could ever imagine, the most preposterous what-if I'm capable of connecting?"  And wrote a paper on it.

One of my beauts is that Charles Ives's music was tacitly a signal to males to rape women.  And I got an A on it.  I shit you not.  Laughed all the way to the trash bin.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6239071/Academic-journals-caught-massive-hoax-involving-20-FAKE-papers.html

Academic journals have been caught up in a massive hoax involving 20 fake papers. 

Researchers published fake and convoluted papers on 'dog rape culture', 'a conceptual penis' and even re-wrote a chapter of Mein Kampf.

Their aim was to expose how 'absurdities' get published in legitimate peer-reviewed academic papers due to a lack of critical review.

[Brisketexan 105,478]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6239071/Academic-journals-caught-massive-hoax-involving-20-FAKE-papers.html

Academic journals have been caught up in a massive hoax involving 20 fake papers. 

Researchers published fake and convoluted papers on 'dog rape culture', 'a conceptual penis' and even re-wrote a chapter of Mein Kampf.

Their aim was to expose how 'absurdities' get published in legitimate peer-reviewed academic papers due to a lack of critical review.

To be fair, "A Conceptual Penis" was a great EP by Laurie Anderson.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think the real phenomenon here is leisure time that has accumulated over the last 75 years or so.

I think Americans of all stripes have more leisure time to eat or fuck off or work out or some combination thereof than ever.

No one in the 20s or 30s worked out.  They didn't have time for that shit and lifestyles mostly kept them on the fitter end of things.  And a lack of processed food.

You are old, man. I bet it was something when Phil Knight introduced the concept of running for fun and fitness and introduced the word "jogging" into the modern lexicon.

[gyroprotagonist 2,595]

 

Pigman : "A Bridge Too Far." Caine and Hackman in the same movie. This is my thesis man! This is my closing argument! I CAN STOP WATCHING TV!

 

 

[sidis 9,832]

if you are actually looking for feedback beyond just a pile-on of your perceived uselessness of academic research that this thread has weirdly tangentially careened off into despite this being a book....my perspective is it is a fairly misguided effort to find corrollaries between two things that aren't really correlated but in which there are some similar frameworks - namely achieving self-actualization through "achievement"...either economic or in physical attractiveness (as opposed to physical well-being).  that the marketplace of neoliberal economics also creates a marketplace for imagery and vanity. some trends could probably fit into this melding of frameworks in a micro sense such as social media economics (e.g., hot girl influencers posting thirst traps, etc... and getting paid for it) but it ignores a severely undermining elephant in the room regarding human biology, aesthetics, and the fact that attractive women and men have always risen to the top regardless of political economic systems.

it also simply brushes aside with no real explanation the physiological benefits of fitness and the existence of a lot of people who pursue it not just for vanity, but for its physiological benefits.  most people i know in the upper-middle to upper class 35-50 people that actually to pursue fitness do it for those benefits more than vanity - not that vanity isn't a welcome benefit.

not the best thesis, and highly cherry-picked data (more like concepts than data honestly) to support what is effectively "capitalism encourages and worships competition and the winners who leverage that system...and people trying to look good is effectively competition in the vanity marketplace in which we reward the most attractive."  weak stuff at the end of the day.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

3 minutes ago, sidis said:

if you are actually looking for feedback beyond just a pile-on of your perceived uselessness of academic research that this thread has weirdly tangentially careened off into despite this being a book....my perspective is it is a fairly misguided effort to find corrollaries between two things that aren't really correlated but in which there are some similar frameworks - namely achieving self-actualization through "achievement"...either economic or in physical attractiveness (as opposed to physical well-being).  that the marketplace of neoliberal economics also creates a marketplace for imagery and vanity. some trends could probably fit into this melding of frameworks in a micro sense such as social media economics (e.g., hot girl influencers posting thirst traps, etc... and getting paid for it) but it ignores a severely undermining elephant in the room regarding human biology, aesthetics, and the fact that attractive women and men have always risen to the top regardless of political economic systems.

it also simply brushes aside with no real explanation the physiological benefits of fitness and the existence of a lot of people who pursue it not just for vanity, but for its physiological benefits.  most people i know in the upper-middle to upper class 35-50 people that actually to pursue fitness do it for those benefits more than vanity - not that vanity isn't a welcome benefit.

not the best thesis, and highly cherry-picked data (more like concepts than data honestly) to support what is effectively "capitalism encourages and worships competition and the winners who leverage that system...and people trying to look good is effectively competition in the vanity marketplace in which we reward the most attractive."  weak stuff at the end of the day.

Thanks for copying and pasting out of your peer review of the scholarship the book was based upon! 10/10

[midtown 3,348]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

All fatties should be put on Fight Island.  To fight to the death.  Winners may return after they are non-fatties and murdered the other fatties in a Thunderdome-style match.

Covid island

[crash_davis 23,121]

4 minutes ago, sidis said:

if you are actually looking for feedback beyond just a pile-on of your perceived uselessness of academic research that this thread has weirdly tangentially careened off into despite this being a book....my perspective is it is a fairly misguided effort to find corrollaries between two things that aren't really correlated but in which there are some similar frameworks - namely achieving self-actualization through "achievement"...either economic or in physical attractiveness (as opposed to physical well-being).  that the marketplace of neoliberal economics also creates a marketplace for imagery and vanity. some trends could probably fit into this melding of frameworks in a micro sense such as social media economics (e.g., hot girl influencers posting thirst traps, etc... and getting paid for it) but it ignores a severely undermining elephant in the room regarding human biology, aesthetics, and the fact that attractive women and men have always risen to the top regardless of political economic systems.

it also simply brushes aside with no real explanation the physiological benefits of fitness and the existence of a lot of people who pursue it not just for vanity, but for its physiological benefits.  most people i know in the upper-middle to upper class 35-50 people that actually to pursue fitness do it for those benefits more than vanity - not that vanity isn't a welcome benefit.

not the best thesis, and highly cherry-picked data (more like concepts than data honestly) to support what is effectively "capitalism encourages and worships competition and the winners who leverage that system...and people trying to look good is effectively competition in the vanity marketplace in which we reward the most attractive."  weak stuff at the end of the day.

thank you. this is the cliff notes I was looking for.

the whole premise seemed specious at best. 

[sidis 9,832]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

the whole premise seemed specious at best. 

i generally agree.  ovid, tahir shah, boccaccio, fitzgerald, shakespeare, Nabokov, and on forever didn't ever write about regina and crystal the wal-mart greeters either.  

although, if brisket and buck strickland ever join the world of transcendent authors beyond accumulating rep on this site, perhaps we will break through that wall based on their nsaa predilections.  

 

[52-80 19,274]

We must seize the means of respiration. 

[Brisketexan 105,478]

18 minutes ago, sidis said:

i generally agree.  ovid, tahir shah, boccaccio, fitzgerald, shakespeare, Nabokov, and on forever didn't ever write about regina and crystal the wal-mart greeters either.  

although, if brisket and buck strickland ever join the world of transcendent authors beyond accumulating rep on this site, perhaps we will break through that wall based on their nsaa predilections.  

 

I've written epic tomes on the subject of Sela Ward.  On the advice of counsel, they have not been released to the public.

[BabaYaga 15,332]

11 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

We must seize the means of respiration. 

Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.....

[ScottS 1,076]

22 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've written epic tomes on the subject of Sela Ward.  On the advice of counsel, they have not been released to the public.

https://www.literotica.com/c/celebrity-stories

[BabaYaga 15,332]

1 hour ago, midtown said:

Covid island

You can't escape me......ahhhhhhhhhrrrrrrr.....

[washparkhorn 9,939]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Ok, so how does working out affect economics? 

Builds demand for fitness lifestyle.  Capitalism naturally creates the market. Suppliers meet demand. Profit. 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

The market for whistle tips collapsed leaving bubb rubb with excess supply. Neoliberal bubble economics in action. 
 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

The only reason we mock the concept of dog rape culture is that we don't listen to the anguished cries of our lower legs. 

[Nicole44 22,090]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I've written epic tomes on the subject of Sela Ward.  On the advice of counsel, they have not been released to the public.

 

[F250 28,881]

4 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Builds demand for fitness lifestyle.  Capitalism naturally creates the market. Suppliers meet demand. Profit. 

Now explain these.