Jump to content

God. We have a problem, or do we?

crash_davis

By crash_davis
in Daily Texan

 Share

Recommended Posts

Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11819

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that one has to do with the other at all. That must be fake though. 

I think I might be misunderstanding what your point was.  Mine was, having a community understanding Jesus teachings and beliefs is cool.  Making them go to an altar and profess it and require or push others to do so, not so much.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that one has to do with the other at all. That must be fake though. 

Stephen King was completely right about The Stand. He’s a prophet. I hate Nebraska but I will go there man. Lulz. Captain Trips!

Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Anastasis

Anastasis 23475

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I think I might be misunderstanding what your point was.  Mine was, having a community understanding Jesus teachings and beliefs is cool.  Making them go to an altar and profess it and require or push others to do so, not so much.  

We are not far apart, esp wrt to the latter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DaysOff

DaysOff 7951

Posted
Posted
This as opposed to some old dude deciding for people what the Truth is? It's all choose your own adventure. Just because people meet regularly on Sundays and sing songs doesn't make it any more valid or true-er. On the contrary, it's a bit cringey.

Watching white people sing and clap while standing at a contemporary service is so embarrassing. But they don't know any better so I have to be embarrassed for them. It's too much to bear.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Deej

Deej 76820

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

I absolutely believe in God. That terrifies me. 
 

There's a passage that I got memorized, seems appropiate for this situation: Ezekiel 25,17. "The path of the righteous man is beset of all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil me. Blessed is he who, in the name of the charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

samuel l jackson gun GIF by The Good Films

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bolverk

bolverk 29683

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

But whales are very resilient creatures.  And apparently a nice abode for days to a few days to prefigure soteriology. 

Indeed they are, but you've got to give Jonah a break. The God of the Old Testament had given Jonah, and everyone else, plenty of good reasons by that point to be scared of him. Besides, it's not like Jonah was an unbeliever or anything.

But, look, I'm not questioning or disparaging anyone's belief system and while Crash likely starting this thread as "bait," so to speak, I'm genuinely interested in discussing the topic of why many Americans are choosing to no longer attend service, and what might be lost by that, even if they may still nominally be Christians. The "why" is a pretty intriguing question. What does that say about American society, and how does it to relate to the concept of community?

Robert Putnam put out an essay called Bowling Alone in the mid-1990s that was discussed when I was going to planning school at UT about the loss of social capital in the U.S. In other words, he noted that all sorts of social organizations from bowling leagues to fraternal organizations were seeing a precipitous decline in participation by then. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if church attendance was related to that, and I don't think it could have been caused by the internet due to the fact its publication date and that it had already been occurring for quite a while.

Again, for me, it strikes a similar chord to a couple of other recent DT threads about our recent sexual recession, neoliberalism, and self-actualization that are exasperated by the internet, whose postings might be a byproduct of so many of us spending the last year in isolation. Or, I could be full of shit.

Edited by bolverk
fuck typos when I'm trying to be serious
  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I like you just fine. But @Judge Roybeanbag's sausage spreadsheet is the gospel as far as I am concerned. 

But y’all are like cheese and crackers! The charcuterie board Of awesome man! I was worried about my place in life and now I know I need to smear the awesome that is Jesus all over everyone and everything 😃

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Anastasis

Anastasis 23475

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm genuinely interested in discussing the topic of why many Americans are choosing to no longer attend service, and what might be lost by that, even if they may still nominally be Christians. The "why" is a pretty intriguing question. What does that say about American society, and how does it to relate to the concept of community?

Robert Putnam put out an essay called Bowling Alone in the mid-1990s that was discussed when I was going to planning school at UT about the loss of social capital in the U.S. In other words, he noted that all sorts of social organizations from bowling leagues to fraternal organizations were seeing a precipitous decline in participation by then. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if church attendance was related to that, and I don't think it could have been caused by the internet due to the fact its publication date and that it had already been occurring for quite a while.

Agree that there is the really interesting aspect of the discussion, and I dont think that it is easily isolated to religious affiliation.  There is a general disengagement from community to social media networks and other backfills. That shit is literally breaking our society.  Some people celebrate it because of a correlation to religious affiliation, but in reality it is literally tearing the fabric of our society apart. Forest trees etc.  

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19077

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Indeed they are, but you've got to give Jonah a break. The God of the Old Testament had given Jonah, and everyone else, plenty of good reasons by that point to be scared of him. Besides, it's not like Jonah was an unbeliever or anything.

But, look, I'm not questioning or disparaging anyone's belief system and while Crash likely starting this thread as "bait," so to speak, I'm genuinely interested in discussing the topic of why many Americans are choosing to no longer attend service, and what might be lost by that, even if they may still nominally be Christians. The "why" is a pretty intriguing question. What does that say about American society, and how does it to relate to the concept of community?

Robert Putnam put out an essay called Bowling Alone in the mid-1990s that was discussed when I was going to planning school at UT about the loss of social capital in the U.S. In other words, he noted that all sorts of social organizations from bowling leagues to fraternal organizations were seeing a precipitous decline in participation by then. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if church attendance was related to that, and I don't think it could have been caused by the internet due to the fact its publication date and that it had already been occurring for quite a while.

Again, for me, it strikes a similar chord to a couple of other recent DT threads about our recent sexual recession, neoliberalism, and self-actualization that are exasperated by the internet, whose postings might be a byproduct of so many of us spending the last year in isolation. Or, I could be full of shit.

People used to feel compelled to go or say they believe. They no longer do. That’s almost the entirety of the change in numbers. My uncle (dead) never went to church. His kids asked him and he said “of course we are Christians” and they scratched their heads as they’d never been to church or talked about God etc. 

Uncle Was product of the 50’s/60’s in the Midwest when you claimed that. Cousins California in the 90’s. Non difference in belief system or behaviors. Did anything change?  Just what was claimed by the family. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted (edited)

I stopped liking church when they started trying to be all Joel Osteen with the productions and the songs and shit. I could easily join something similar but it freaks me out. Not that the old method of relying on the olds with the checks to keep it up. “Hey everyone, Hayley who is 7 months pregnant with her adorable 2 kids and husband Jonathan just joined!”

I just can’t identify. I read and watch from their websites. 

Edited by Nicole44
Even if I’m hotter than Satan’s panties churches give two fucks if you aren’t married with kids
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bolverk

bolverk 29683

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Agree that there is the really interesting aspect of the discussion, and I dont think that it is easily isolated to religious affiliation.  There is a general disengagement from community to social media networks and other backfills. That shit is literally breaking our society.  Some people celebrate it because of a correlation to religious affiliation, but in reality it is literally tearing the fabric of our society apart. Forest trees etc.  

Absolutely. If you think about it, people had to be physically present to enjoy listening to music or be the participant in the creation thereof. Then, we had radio. Along comes TV, and folks no longer had to be together to see a group of actor give a theatrical performance. Somewhere along the line, we lost rock and roll concerts that filled football stadiums. And, speaking of football, attendance was on the decline even before Covid. Folks used to get together at bars to discuss bullshit over Happy Hours, then we had Shaggy/Surly.

I'm no Luddite, but it's technology that has allowed us to retreat into our shells and bring out an introverted, misanthropic, antisocial aspect of human nature. Long ago, they say, shunning from the tribe was the worst punishment a human could receive. Now, we relish in it - myself included. If Covid has taught me one thing, I definitely need connection with other people to make sure that I'm a good one myself.

  • Hook 'Em 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Anastasis

Anastasis 23475

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

But y’all are like cheese and crackers! The charcuterie board Of awesome man! I was worried about my place in life and now I know I need to smear the awesome that is Jesus all over everyone and everything 😃

O, taste and see. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Deej

Deej 76820

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Those fuckers wouldn’t leave you alone. “Personality test!” All chipper and shit. Between that and the area where the “drag worms” hung out...fucking a

Talking about these...

 

Colt_statue_WTF.jpg

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
F250

F250 28777

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Groups can be just as screwed up as individuals (sometimes moreso), but it seems that only being self-referential regarding spirituality is missing something.

It also tends to be shite. A "spiritual" person explaining their spirituality is usually just a bunch of incoherent ideas thrown together. At least there is canon and a set of codified beliefs within organized religion. Most individual spiritual ideas sound like shit you come with while getting high.

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Deej

Deej 76820

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, F250 said:

It also tends to be shite. A "spiritual" person explaining their spirituality is usually just a bunch of incoherent ideas thrown together. At least there is canon and a set of codified beliefs within organized religion. Most individual spiritual ideas sound like shit you come with while getting high.

 

 

See, I think the codified stuff sounds like shit people in power came up with to keep themselves in power. To each his own. 

And get high on some quality shit and you'll come to terms with a higher power.

Edited by Deej
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

Posted
Posted

The more you study the history of religion and myth, you realize each religion is retelling the same stories of previous societies and organizations with their own twist. 

Here is a funnier explanation of when you start to see the light when comparing your religion to others or the past religions 

 

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bolverk

bolverk 29683

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Good, that's just weird. 

Maybe so, but at least there's a beat. I know that I've mentioned it before, but that really awkward start to a Church of Christ hymn where one brave soul blurts out the first note and everyone else tries to catch up is kind of weird too because musical instruments are somehow a sin in the eyes of the lord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Celery Man

Celery Man 20966

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Again, for me, it strikes a similar chord to a couple of other recent DT threads about our recent sexual recession, neoliberalism, and self-actualization that are exasperated by the internet, whose postings might be a byproduct of so many of us spending the last year in isolation. Or, I could be full of shit.

Something like, internet:community::corn syrup:food . It's easy, it's everywhere, you can reach out and grab it, it's easier to consume than a meal cooked with raw ingredients and it also feels more fun to consume than the real thing. But it's not. And we're all getting fat as fuck, dying from the beetus. Organized religion declines with all the other "IRL with strangers!" activities, which is independent of whether there's other shit going on with Christianity in America that make people look elsewhere when they are looking.

I care a lot about a lot of you guys and this is a great place. But.. you know, sometimes I think about some handle I used to see and haven't in years and it's usually just a person who I knew about but didn't know and didn't even notice when they disappeared. I'm trying to not shit on Surly because as far as internet communities go, it is mostly good. Shitting on internet community broadly - it's not real life. Sometimes it crosses over into real life, leads to real life and real community, but it's junk food.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted

True story:  Before my dad passed in 2005 he wanted to be buried with my mom’s parents. My dad died in his sleep as I have mentioned many times before, between the Ohio State football win and OU beat down. missed the big show but he was on campus for previous MNCs. 
 

Anyway, as my Papa (my mom’s dad) was dying in December of 2006, he kept saying over and over, “can’t you see Jim? He’s pacing! He’s waiting for me! He’s right there! “ of course we looked and saw nothing. 
 

My grandfather fought in WW2. He was a tough guy. He saw more things at 15 than I would never wish on anyone. he was a badass. He loved my dad. My Papa also had 7 siblings (most of who had passed when he died.) as had his own parents. But....
 

His eyes lit up while he was watching something none of us could see: he saw my dad. Maybe our subconscious allows us that peace when we pass, I’m not going to quantify it, I watched him see what he believed he saw. 
 

he saw my dad waiting for him. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Celery Man

Celery Man 20966

Posted
Posted

 

1 minute ago, Deej said:

It crosses over into real life when you actually share something real in common with each other, like guitars and dogs. Otherwise, it's all just fluff. 

plus we met that one time in a parking lot downtown so i could give you a rumble

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
crash_davis

crash_davis 23113

Posted
  • Author
Posted
41 minutes ago, F250 said:

It also tends to be shite. A "spiritual" person explaining their spirituality is usually just a bunch of incoherent ideas thrown together. At least there is canon and a set of codified beliefs within organized religion. Most individual spiritual ideas sound like shit you come with while getting high.

 

 

And religious text is self serving shit to suppress women and people and keep wealth and power in the church. People choose any passage in whatever book they deem holy to live by and judge others while wholly dismissing other passages that do not agree with their morals or lifestyle. How convenient. Sounds like a choose your own adventure book. 

So which sounds more made up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
workswithseed

workswithseed 2112

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Maybe so, but at least there's a beat. I know that I've mentioned it before, but that really awkward start to a Church of Christ hymn where one brave soul blurts out the first note and everyone else tries to catch up is kind of weird too because musical instruments are somehow a sin in the eyes of the lord.

I never felt weird singing without a beat. That's just me though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mole

Mole 4333

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

I think this is a big part of it.  The last 10 years or so, and the last 4 very much so, religion in the US has really debased itself.  I like my religion and I grew up more religious than most, but it has gotten harder and harder the further religion gets divorced from 'being good.'

As mentioned by others, I suspect that much of the change has to do with nominal Christians no longer feeling social pressure to half-heartedly claim a faith, but as someone still affiliated with a church, the past year has been a bitter pill. I can understand people coming to different conclusions to political questions for which the best answer is really the least terrible answer, but I can't really wrap my mind around the depth of idolatry and self-worship that openly became mainstream Christian positions and at times seemed like official positions for some denominations.

With COVID, Christians were handed a prime opportunity to act out the Gospel and lay down our lives for our communities in really simple ways, but at least in my Christian circle, way too many are acting out Left Behind fantasies instead. I'm not sure what post-COVID church life will look like for my family, but I suspect there will be some strained relationships within the church as everyone comes to terms with what has all happened. The problems have been brewing for a long time, but this past year has brought a lot into focus.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
deter

deter 314

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Mole said:

As mentioned by others, I suspect that much of the change has to do with nominal Christians no longer feeling social pressure to half-heartedly claim a faith, but as someone still affiliated with a church, the past year has been a bitter pill. I can understand people coming to different conclusions to political questions for which the best answer is really the least terrible answer, but I can't really wrap my mind around the depth of idolatry and self-worship that openly became mainstream Christian positions and at times seemed like official positions for some denominations.

With COVID, Christians were handed a prime opportunity to act out the Gospel and lay down our lives for our communities in really simple ways, but at least in my Christian circle, way too many are acting out Left Behind fantasies instead. I'm not sure what post-COVID church life will look like for my family, but I suspect there will be some strained relationships within the church as everyone comes to terms with what has all happened. The problems have been brewing for a long time, but this past year has brought a lot into focus.

Same for family and "friends".

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Orale

Orale 1087

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

I think this is a big part of it.  The last 10 years or so, and the last 4 very much so, religion in the US has really debased itself.  I like my religion and I grew up more religious than most, but it has gotten harder and harder the further religion gets divorced from 'being good.'

I liked my religion (Catholicism) too until my early twenties. Then Bush got elected and the Catholic church (or at least its powerful leadership) went total right wing and partisan or at least to a much greater extent than I remembered growing up. That along with the pedophila scandals and the unbelievable hypocrisy was just too much to bear.  I asked myself a simple question one day, why am I taking moral direction/instruction/control from these creeps? 

  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
NWBuck

NWBuck 8571

Posted
Posted

Not that this is unique to Christianity, but it seems that the current moment is yet another example of a faith/religion of based on sacrifice and selflessnes initially being co-opted by power and prestige and then discovering that they liked it. At some point it became addicted to the power and compromised foundationally to maintain it.

As true with Constantine and the (Holy) Roman Empire, so to with the Religious Right. In order to protect themselves (from persecution from Rome, from the "godlessness" of the cultural revolutions of the 60s and 70s), many literally sold their souls rather than trust that the message they preached was true.

When it came down to it, it was easier to trust in chariots and horses than in the name of the Lord their God.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
F250

F250 28777

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

And religious text is self serving shit to suppress women and people and keep wealth and power in the church. People choose any passage in whatever book they deem holy to live by and judge others while wholly dismissing other passages that do not agree with their morals or lifestyle. How convenient. Sounds like a choose your own adventure book. 

So which sounds more made up?

Religions have canon and a mostly coherent worldview making the ideas fairly static. The individual concept of spirituality rarely is coherent and is often just a mish mash of poorly thought out or conflicting ideas. It's like Star Trek pre-JJ Abrams, there was a fairly consistent canon that ST movies and TV series built upon. The individual spiritualist is the person that writes Star Trek meets Star Wars with appearances from DC and Marvel characters fan fiction. Sure it's enjoyable for them but it makes no fucking sense.

*This has nothing to do with your belief or lack of belief, I don't give a fuck. My comments are more about the philosophical consistency of structured belief systems vs some randos inspirational thought of the day.

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...