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2021 Houston Astros Thread

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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

there's so much to unpack from today, so i'll just start listing them. tuesday was devastating for oakland, today was twice as devastating for the yankees.  they had just started to play better. 

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

The boy and I were at the last ALCS clincher - we were walking on air for days after Altuve’s walkoff. Today, the boy is 5,000 miles and 7 hours away, with no way to watch. So we did a video chat, w

Helobious
Helobious

Enjoy it. Old Altuve, no more Correa means this is the very end of the road for your tainted dynasty. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18971

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1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

id be ok with the astros going 10 years / $300mil, that's the limit though. you have an amazing core locked up, stack up pennants and WS runs 

Why not 13/330?  He gets more money, retires as an Astro possibly at 40, it lowers our tax line every year while we are competitive win/win/win. 
if you are willing to go 10/300 more money and more years shouldn’t matter as long as it lowers AAV. 
that 13/330 is basically the Bryce Harper deal, right? 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18651

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13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Why not 13/330?  He gets more money, retires as an Astro possibly at 40, it lowers our tax line every year while we are competitive win/win/win. 
if you are willing to go 10/300 more money and more years shouldn’t matter as long as it lowers AAV. 
that 13/330 is basically the Bryce Harper deal, right? 

Watch Jim Crane offer five years.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18971

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On 3/31/2021 at 10:09 AM, UTexasFight said:

93-67

5th straight ALCS appearance.

magic 8 ball only goes out to the start of the ALCS so not yet sure if we’re advancing to and/or winning the World Series...

should come in to focus on/around July 31

 

edit: realized that only adds up to 160 games. Started to correct to 162, but that’s probably actually going to be right.

 

On 3/31/2021 at 1:32 PM, DaysOff said:

87-75

Beat out A's for division by a game

First round exit; team is slowly dismantled

Depression sets in

 

On 3/31/2021 at 4:07 PM, Saint Tacky said:

90-72. Win the AL Central by six-games over the A's or Angels and make it to the ALCS. Beat Gerrit Cole in Game 7 of the ALCS at Yankee Stadium.

See you in October to say "I told you so."

 

On 3/31/2021 at 6:14 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

101-61. 

We gonna be really good in the regular season as we have 7 or 8 or 9 arms in the organization that can be a 2-4 starter, and enough bullpen to definitely be servicable.  We will be a top 3 run scored and top 7 runs allowed team.  We will lose in the round where it's exposed that we don't have enough top end stating pitching and lack that hammer in the bullpen to compete with some of the other teams in top end talent- but if we don't have to face the Yanks or Rays or Dodgers or Padres we might be able to avoid that kind of thing.  This team is built to win in 162 games.  If we are going to win in the sprint as opposed to marathon we will need some real clutch performances from Correa or Altuve or Bregman.  

I'd put our organization from 4-18 up against anyone's. I'm worried about no cy young type and no regular that you say- yeah that guys going to put up MVP numbers for sure. Correa, Altuve, Yordan, Bregman- they've all got some blemishes to them health wise or coming off bad seasons or looking for stuff. I don't know that I trust our best against another teams best- but I know I like our 4th starter, 3rd best high leverage reliever or 6th best hitter up against whoever we are playing almost any day.   

 

On 3/31/2021 at 11:52 PM, Scraps said:
On 3/31/2021 at 11:23 PM, clapclapclap said:
Fire James Click
 
(It's past midnight eastern, close enough)
 
This is actually my train of thought, but so far it kinda smells like Click views his job as building playoff contending teams, not WS winning teams.  I fear he wants to prove himself by letting high salary Correa walk and replacing with a 'good enough' up and comer, Rays style.  I'm skeptical such a gamble pays off.  If we don't at least reach the ALCS in either 2022 or 23 then I'd call Click a failure (even if we reach the WS this year, not sure how much credit I give him vs Luhnow).  
And no, he didn't build last year's WS team, he only assisted.  Neander was the gm.  So yeah, I'm not sure hiring a Neanderthal is gonna work out.
Hope my gut is wrong on this.  Losing Correa would piss me off as much as when Nolan walked.
 

I've made it known I am not #TeamClick

 

On 4/1/2021 at 12:31 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

Sign fucking Correa. He made, by all accounts, an imminently reasonable offer to the astros for his services for life. They shit all over that with a completely and totally insulting offer.

click strikes me as a dipshit who thinks he’s about 25% smarter than he actually is. Lunow would have gotten that deal done- witness Altuve, Bregman and JV, plus the trade for Cole and Greinke. He got the value of high end talent and hunting World Series rings instead of owning the best win per dollar ratio in the league. Last I saw they don’t fly pennants or give out rings for that shit. 
I’m pissed and nothing. Short of an extension can get me unpissed. 

 

On 4/1/2021 at 1:31 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

No way. The analytics clearly say Correa is worth 8/200. And once the astros got in legit competitive win the World Series mode every move lunow made was to consolidate value. Because that’s how you go from good to great. You trade 3 players worth 7 war total for 1 guy worth 5. 
every move lunow made was to upgrade guys that were good to guys that were great. Or chased that with the Gomez trade. 
I’m not saying he was always right but that’s what all those deals were about- consolidation of value. 

 

On 4/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, LCHorn said:

I’m with Wulaw, I think Click is, or has been instructed to, save money even at the expense of cutting past the fat into muscle.  
 

If we’re going to have Verlander, Greinke, and Correa coming off the books but still are wanting to contend (which we kind of have to be paying Altuve and Bregman big money) then I’d like to know where the surplus money is going.  Corey Seager?  I don’t know all the pending free agents but CF and potentially SS aren’t obvious candidates to upgrade by much over what we fielded in 2019.

 

On 4/1/2021 at 3:19 PM, LCHorn said:

Yes, that the other part.  From a success cycle standpoint it just seems weird to give up (by refusing to pay market for talent) when a) you have the means and b) you’re a World Series contender at full health.  That’s the kind of shit I’d expect from McLane.

 

On 4/1/2021 at 7:48 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

Here’s the thing about Crane and I could be completely wrong but I think I’m right:

I don’t think he’s super domineering and I don’t think he’s calling all the shots or desires to call the shots. I think he probably gives his subordinates a lot of lattitude as to what they can do, and is there for guidance, parameters and the like. 
I’d be legitimately surprised if Click came to him with a 5 year plan to stay below the luxury tax (but barely so) while maintaining a potentially World Series contending team.  But I don’t think Click even made that argument or came to him with that plan with Carlos as part of it on a big deal. I think Click’s entire experience has been trying to maximize dollars per win and that’s not typically the teams that win titles. Sometimes you have to pay JD drew 18 million to suck for you and watch him hit the game winning grand slam to win the World Series for you. 
if the 5 year window is up, and Correa still has another 5 years on the deal, and you want to move on you can. Even if his contract is a negative value you can always eat some money and trade him on in a rebuild- or he can make 27 million while everyone else makes minimum wage- it’s not that big a fucking deal. Anyone who is fine with seeing the back of Correa at the end of 2021 should realize that we are likely giving up on any real chance to win another World Series. 
And it is my money- $20k in season tickets this year. I doubt I will renew as   It doesn’t particularly look to me like management is particularly trying to win anymore. 
I don’t get it at all. The young arms totally and completely reset out competitive window last year and we seem intent on taking that piece of good fortune that was given to us and pissing all over it. 
name me one thing Lunow ever did that was cheap?  Now fuck face click is going to let the heart of the team and the most talent on the team leave in back to back winters without ever even lifting a finger to keep them around. 

 

On 4/1/2021 at 8:35 PM, Guadaloopy said:

Crane/Luhnow extended some core pieces while also trading for two of the most expensive arms in baseball, and extended one of them. 
 

Crane’s willingness to spend is not the issue. However, I don’t think he will spend without a really solid plan behind it.  I’m not sure Click has that plan.  

Very few season predictions. Mostly those that did got it right. 
Some Correa talk about management being ducking idiots (my take) or not Clicks fault for

not jumping all over the 8/200 Correa countered their shit offer with. 
this season was fine. I enjoyed it I guess. It’s just a real bummer to lose the top FA in the 19 class, the 20 class and now the 21 class. I would assume Morton was pretty high up in the 18 class as well as Keuchel in the 17 class. 
Losing keuchel and Morton wasn’t that big

a deal bc they added Greinke and Cole. But the team progressively gets worse and the talent drain is obvious. Without Correa (if you are going with Pena or Leon at SS) this team isn’t a playoff team. We now have a gaping hole in CF that good pitchers are going to overwhelm in the playoffs with George gone. 
today was hard for me to take seeing Correa do Correa things and figuring the greatest era in Astros baseball is pretty close to over and has one more playoff run in it. Hopefully we go out in style with the ring we should have won in 2019. 1 ring isn’t enough for this amazing group of players. 

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11358

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Bergman’s contract should be the Astro’s boilerplate. 5 years $100 million. Take it or leave it. 

This is what the Astros can afford. If I asked you to run a business that lost money would you do it? Hell no. We shouldn’t ask that of Crane. 

Correa will leave it, so he won’t be an Astro any longer. It sucks, but that’s the way it is. Thank you for being a good citizen and teammate Carlos. Let’s win it all one more time. 

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Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10918

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On 10/1/2021 at 7:53 PM, Guadaloopy said:

30 HR is a nice round number for a season.  Just sayin’, Tucker. 

 

On 10/1/2021 at 10:09 PM, Guadaloopy said:

This sucks for us as fans, but it don’t make a shit.  Astros will win the next two for a smooth 95 win season and home field for the first round. 
 

James Corden Hello GIF by The Late Late Show with James Corden

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah/ if he offers 5 years 200 million and Correa says no I will tip my cap and say- ok- I disagree but this is what a market offer on a short term deal for CC should look like. 

This is exactly where I'm at as well. Big money commitment from the home team and Correa still gets another big payday in his age 32 year. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18971

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1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Gaping hole in CF? Astros got 3.1 WAR from Meyers and McCormick for league minimum salaries, while the Blue Jays got 2.1 WAR out of Springer for $23M+. If the rest of the lineup hits, Meyers+McCormick will not be a drain on the lineup at all.

Watch what happens in the playoffs when they get scouted and paid attention too. You liked September for Meyers when they got a book?

i hope I’m wrong. There’s a reason our CFers will hit 8th. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Watch what happens in the playoffs when they get scouted and paid attention too. You liked September for Meyers when they got a book?

i hope I’m wrong. There’s a reason our CFers will hit 8th. 

Meyers slumped like the rest of the team...Did the rest of the league figure out Alvarez too? Correa? He's coming back around. It's about adjusting and readjusting. Chaz and Meyers are past the "oh just bust him down and in" type figuring out. in other words they are MLB players, not flashes in the pan. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76314

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9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This a million times. He is like Michael Jordan in Cuba. To Cuban kids, we are the New York Yankees because of Yuli. 


the astro / Cuban pipeline needs to only grow

 

astros need to buy billboards over there. Send over baseball gear by the ton 

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Pimphand

Pimphand 5594

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5 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I would not sign Correa for more than six years. Come on y'all, are we learning nothing from the Angels? I fucking love Correa, and he is the heart of the team, but so was Springer, and we've managed to keep on keepin' on w/o George. 

Re: Correa yeah 6 years takes him to 33. I would not pay big bucks on a contract for any hitter older than 33. There are way more players who fall off the cliff after 33 like Pujols & Cabrera or bust out of the league entirely like Fielder & Ellsbury than there are players who are super productive at the plate past that age like Barry Bonds.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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7 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


the astro / Cuban pipeline needs to only grow

 

astros need to buy billboards over there. Send over baseball gear by the ton 

When we lost all those draft picks, I was hoping we would just go double down in Cuba. Finally someone in power in Houston sports listened to my brainwaves and did just that. 

I really love this organization. It's strange to say that about any Houston sports outfit....I guess i have followed about 125 seasons in basketball, football, and baseball with interest ranging from rabid fandom (Oilers, Astros, Hakeem's Rockets) to meh to absolute schadenfreude (Texans) and Crane's Astros are just in another galaxy. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18971

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10 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

Re: Correa yeah 6 years takes him to 33. I would not pay big bucks on a contract for any hitter older than 33. There are way more players who fall off the cliff after 33 like Pujols & Cabrera or bust out of the league entirely like Fielder & Ellsbury than there are players who are super productive at the plate past that age like Barry Bonds.

You give him 10 not because you think he’s going to be awesome post 33, you give him 10 because spreading it out makes the next 5 years when he’s in his absolute prime to late prime affordable and you hope that he is a HOF player and the tail of his career allows him to still be useful in a Craig Biggio In 04/05 kind of way.  The dude is only just turned 27. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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4 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

Re: Correa yeah 6 years takes him to 33. I would not pay big bucks on a contract for any hitter older than 33. There are way more players who fall off the cliff after 33 like Pujols & Cabrera or bust out of the league entirely like Fielder & Ellsbury than there are players who are super productive at the plate past that age like Barry Bonds.

Bill James has written about this and he thinks a lot of it has to do with the build of the player. Big and tall and/or brawny dudes fall off the cliff. Correa is tall but he's not stiff....I think he will level off and put up Ripken numbers in his mid and late 30s. Eventually he will be bumped to third. Personally I think at his best he is better than Ripken, but then again I think Cal was a wee bit overrated thanks to the streak. On the other hand, there is something to be said for the streak -- durability has not been Correa's strong suit until this year. 

Small guys like Altuve last a long time....Look at Joe Morgan's WAR numbers late in his career. Altuve might be productive until he's 43....And I could see Yuli hitting until he's 50 like Julio Franco. (Not predicting that, but I could see it.)

Correa's bat will be the easiest thing to replace...Fielding and leadership the hardest. And that is not to slight his bat at all -- he is just so good in the field and as a leader.  

 

 

 

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WBT

WBT 20415

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1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I would not sign Correa for more than six years. Come on y'all, are we learning nothing from the Angels? I fucking love Correa, and he is the heart of the team, but so was Springer, and we've managed to keep on keepin' on w/o George. 

George is 5 years older, so was 4 years older hitting free agency.  It's not really the same ballpark.

It's a damn shame the Jays missed the playoffs by a game.  I want George to keep moving up the career playoff homer leaderboard.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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21 minutes ago, WBT said:

George is 5 years older, so was 4 years older hitting free agency.  It's not really the same ballpark.

It's a damn shame the Jays missed the playoffs by a game.  I want George to keep moving up the career playoff homer leaderboard.

I forgot about the age difference, which is huge, but I was thinking there in terms of clubhouse leadership....I'd love to see him keep moving on up too but I would worry how many would come at our expense....

 

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