2021 Houston Astros Thread

[Scraps 13570]

Well damn

[HtownHorn 14760]

10-341 for Lindor, that's the ceiling. I think he's a good player, but that's HOF money for a guy that is no where close to a HOF player.

[RGBIII 22840]

9 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

10-341 for Lindor, that's the ceiling. I think he's a good player, but that's HOF money for a guy that is no where close to a HOF player.

7/210 for Carlos, let’s go 

[clapclapclap 9000]

Fire James Click

 

(It's past midnight eastern, close enough)

 

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

meh.  

Just cause he said he wanted to be signed by start of season doesn't mean he won't be signed.   It is all about leverage and positioning and throwing your dick around.  

This is actually my train of thought, but so far it kinda smells like Click views his job as building playoff contending teams, not WS winning teams.  I fear he wants to prove himself by letting high salary Correa walk and replacing with a 'good enough' up and comer, Rays style.  I'm skeptical such a gamble pays off.  If we don't at least reach the ALCS in either 2022 or 23 then I'd call Click a failure (even if we reach the WS this year, not sure how much credit I give him vs Luhnow).  

And no, he didn't build last year's WS team, he only assisted.  Neander was the gm.  So yeah, I'm not sure hiring a Neanderthal is gonna work out.

Hope my gut is wrong on this.  Losing Correa would piss me off as much as when Nolan walked.

 

[Chuckie Finster 22716]

Fire James Click
 
(It's past midnight eastern, close enough)
 
This is actually my train of thought, but so far it kinda smells like Click views his job as building playoff contending teams, not WS winning teams.  I fear he wants to prove himself by letting high salary Correa walk and replacing with a 'good enough' up and comer, Rays style.  I'm skeptical such a gamble pays off.  If we don't at least reach the ALCS in either 2022 or 23 then I'd call Click a failure (even if we reach the WS this year, not sure how much credit I give him vs Luhnow).  
And no, he didn't build last year's WS team, he only assisted.  Neander was the gm.  So yeah, I'm not sure hiring a Neanderthal is gonna work out.
Hope my gut is wrong on this.  Losing Correa would piss me off as much as when Nolan walked.
 

It would be very hard for me to solely blame Click when the contract Carlos is seeking is in a whole different stratosphere from anything Crane has paid to this point.

[Scraps 13570]

Fire James Click
 
(It's past midnight eastern, close enough)
 
This is actually my train of thought, but so far it kinda smells like Click views his job as building playoff contending teams, not WS winning teams.  I fear he wants to prove himself by letting high salary Correa walk and replacing with a 'good enough' up and comer, Rays style.  I'm skeptical such a gamble pays off.  If we don't at least reach the ALCS in either 2022 or 23 then I'd call Click a failure (even if we reach the WS this year, not sure how much credit I give him vs Luhnow).  
And no, he didn't build last year's WS team, he only assisted.  Neander was the gm.  So yeah, I'm not sure hiring a Neanderthal is gonna work out.
Hope my gut is wrong on this.  Losing Correa would piss me off as much as when Nolan walked.
 

I've made it known I am not #TeamClick

[RGBIII 22840]

Lol Click has had a trade deadline of a 60 game season and one offseason where he extended our second best starter and made moderate improvements with our limited space under the luxury tax. I think he gets Carlos signed but let’s give him a minute before condemning him, I mean what the fuck else could he have done so far? 

[Wulaw Horn 19145]

30 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Lol Click has had a trade deadline of a 60 game season and one offseason where he extended our second best starter and made moderate improvements with our limited space under the luxury tax. I think he gets Carlos signed but let’s give him a minute before condemning him, I mean what the fuck else could he have done so far? 

Sign fucking Correa. He made, by all accounts, an imminently reasonable offer to the astros for his services for life. They shit all over that with a completely and totally insulting offer.

click strikes me as a dipshit who thinks he’s about 25% smarter than he actually is. Lunow would have gotten that deal done- witness Altuve, Bregman and JV, plus the trade for Cole and Greinke. He got the value of high end talent and hunting World Series rings instead of owning the best win per dollar ratio in the league. Last I saw they don’t fly pennants or give out rings for that shit. 
I’m pissed and nothing. Short of an extension can get me unpissed. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[Chuckie Finster 22716]

Sign fucking Correa. He made, by all accounts, an imminently reasonable offer to the astros for his services for life. They shit all over that with a completely and totally insulting offer.
click strikes me as a dipshit who thinks he’s about 25% smarter than he actually is. Lunow would have gotten that deal done- witness Altuve, Bregman and JV, plus the trade for Cole and Greinke. He got the value of high end talent and hunting World Series rings instead of owning the best win per dollar ratio in the league. Last I saw they don’t fly pennants or give out rings for that shit. 
I’m pissed and nothing. Short of an extension can get me unpissed. 

If only Luhnow was GM when the Astros tried to resign Gerrit Cole...

Let’s not rewrite history. There’s no fucking way Mr. Analytics would give Correa what he’s currently asking for. The only argument to give him that money is an emotional one (as evidenced by your post) and I genuinely hope they do. But to try and paint Luhnow as someone he wasn’t is silly.

And to reiterate my point above, the only time Crane has ever approved big money for 5+ years was for the reigning MVP, and Correa wants more (years and $) than that. Assuming that this is a Click deal seems strange to me.

[Wulaw Horn 19145]

30 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If only Luhnow was GM when the Astros tried to resign Gerrit Cole...

Let’s not rewrite history. There’s no fucking way Mr. Analytics would give Correa what he’s currently asking for. The only argument to give him that money is an emotional one (as evidenced by your post) and I genuinely hope they do. But to try and paint Luhnow as someone he wasn’t is silly.

And to reiterate my point above, the only time Crane has ever approved big money for 5+ years was for the reigning MVP, and Correa wants more (years and $) than that. Assuming that this is a Click deal seems strange to me.

No way. The analytics clearly say Correa is worth 8/200. And once the astros got in legit competitive win the World Series mode every move lunow made was to consolidate value. Because that’s how you go from good to great. You trade 3 players worth 7 war total for 1 guy worth 5. 
every move lunow made was to upgrade guys that were good to guys that were great. Or chased that with the Gomez trade. 
I’m not saying he was always right but that’s what all those deals were about- consolidation of value. 

[WBT 20650]

Happy opening day!  I can't wait to celebrate by listening to 3.5 hours of drumming tonight.

[tx 3 putt 77280]

Minute Maid needs a drum circle 

[cabowabo 4507]

25 minutes ago, WBT said:

Happy opening day!  I can't wait to celebrate by listening to 3.5 hours of drumming tonight.

Is the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia allowing fans in the stadium?  I know we’ll get piped in drum noise even if the aren’t. 

[Wulaw Horn 19145]

1 hour ago, cabowabo said:

Is the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia allowing fans in the stadium?  I know we’ll get piped in drum noise even if the aren’t. 

I think the deal was that in April 1 they would allow fans into outdoor events at something stupid like 5% capacity. 

[Player 4575]

Bring it bitches

[McFly 606]

Let’s go!

[Planet Houston 4930]

 

[Guadaloopy 11010]

My work schedule magically cleared, so I am taking a half day to fully bask in the glory of Opening Day.   

[Pablo 494]

New schedule allows for one W@H day per week for the rest of the year, today is my first one.

Lets fucking go, Stros!

[Guadaloopy 11010]

[henrygandorf 29194]

i've listened to a lot of mlb radio and watched the appropriate amount of baseball coverage this past month, and it's weird how little the astros get mentioned.  i guess what i'm trying to say is that the national press seems to think that we'd save everyone the time and trouble if we just went out and shot ourselves.  me, i'm for wasting sportswriters' time.  so i figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!

[TonyTexas 10521]

Start of season roster 

 

[Guadaloopy 11010]

Watching AJ’s return in the snow to start the day.  

[TonyTexas 10521]

Just in case anyone was holding on to the slightest hope. 

 

[kevwun 15840]

I hear they're willing to bump the 6-120 offer to 6-120.5

Edited April 1, 2021 by kevwun

[Mez2 4025]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

i've listened to a lot of mlb radio and watched the appropriate amount of baseball coverage this past month, and it's weird how little the astros get mentioned.  i guess what i'm trying to say is that the national press seems to think that we'd save everyone the time and trouble if we just went out and shot ourselves.  me, i'm for wasting sportswriters' time.  so i figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!

Shitburgers, here?

[LCHorn 2629]

I’m with Wulaw, I think Click is, or has been instructed to, save money even at the expense of cutting past the fat into muscle.  
 

If we’re going to have Verlander, Greinke, and Correa coming off the books but still are wanting to contend (which we kind of have to be paying Altuve and Bregman big money) then I’d like to know where the surplus money is going.  Corey Seager?  I don’t know all the pending free agents but CF and potentially SS aren’t obvious candidates to upgrade by much over what we fielded in 2019.

[YChang 3460]

I would feel a little better about this cost saving tactic if I knew our farm system was full of young talent ready for the next level. 

[LCHorn 2629]

4 minutes ago, YChang said:

I would feel a little better about this cost saving tactic if I knew our farm system was full of young talent ready for the next level. 

Yes, that the other part.  From a success cycle standpoint it just seems weird to give up (by refusing to pay market for talent) when a) you have the means and b) you’re a World Series contender at full health.  That’s the kind of shit I’d expect from McLane.

[TonyTexas 10521]

I don’t think Crane intends to be perpetually at top of the league payroll list ala the Dodgers and Yankees. The average MLB payroll is $122M. 

[Chuckie Finster 22716]

23 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m with Wulaw, I think Click is, or has been instructed to, save money even at the expense of cutting past the fat into muscle.  

That's.... not his argument at all.  He's blaming Click, as if he has an bottomless pocketbook to play with.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Chuckie Finster

[YChang 3460]

2 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I don’t think Crane intends to be perpetually at top of the league payroll list ala the Dodgers and Yankees. The average MLB payroll is $122M. 

I can live with painful rebuilds. It just seems like we're helping to close this team's window to win a WS a bit faster than necessary. Obviously, easy for me to say... not my money!

Edited April 1, 2021 by YChang

[kevwun 15840]

21 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

That's.... not his argument at all.  He's blaming Click, as if he has an bottomless pocketbook to play with.

Wulaw may dislike him, but he knows Click's not doing anything Crane hasn't told him to do.  Click isn't trying to convince him to not resign Correa.  A deal isn't getting done because Crane told him it's not happening.

[LCHorn 2629]

28 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I don’t think Crane intends to be perpetually at top of the league payroll list ala the Dodgers and Yankees. The average MLB payroll is $122M. 

I’m okay with that as long as payroll isn’t an obvious proxy for wins.  It would be foolish to spend money on free agents just to give the appearance of being competitive.  
 

That said, there should be plenty enough revenue to consistently stay in the $200+ payroll range.  If the Dodgers and Yankees aren’t going to exceed the soft cap I don’t know why we won’t stay right there with them.  

[TonyTexas 10521]

Lulz. Rangers start strong, scoring 5 runs in top of 1st. ......... then give up 5 in the bottom of the inning. 

[Horny Bull 2766]

 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

He's gone:

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Seasick Sailor

[maninblack 7974]

He was always going to hit the market. 

 

Edit: Plus we had to know he was going to reject these offers

Correa said the Astros offered 5 years, $125 million shortly after he turned down the 6 years, $120 million.

Edited April 1, 2021 by maninblack

[TonyTexas 10521]

Here’s an article that looks at the success of big, long MLB contracts. It paints a pretty negative picture

https://www.jaketaraska.com/do-big-mlb-contracts-equate-to-success/

 

[maninblack 7974]

6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Here’s an article that looks at the success of big, long MLB contracts. It paints a pretty negative picture

https://www.jaketaraska.com/do-big-mlb-contracts-equate-to-success/

 

[Scraps 13570]

Lulz. Rangers start strong, scoring 5 runs in top of 1st. ......... then give up 5 in the bottom of the inning. 

Speaking of....what the fuck is a Bally Sports Southwest

[Jshep34 2320]

14 to 10 royals

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Wulaw Horn 19145]

Here’s the thing about Crane and I could be completely wrong but I think I’m right:

I don’t think he’s super domineering and I don’t think he’s calling all the shots or desires to call the shots. I think he probably gives his subordinates a lot of lattitude as to what they can do, and is there for guidance, parameters and the like. 
I’d be legitimately surprised if Click came to him with a 5 year plan to stay below the luxury tax (but barely so) while maintaining a potentially World Series contending team.  But I don’t think Click even made that argument or came to him with that plan with Carlos as part of it on a big deal. I think Click’s entire experience has been trying to maximize dollars per win and that’s not typically the teams that win titles. Sometimes you have to pay JD drew 18 million to suck for you and watch him hit the game winning grand slam to win the World Series for you. 
if the 5 year window is up, and Correa still has another 5 years on the deal, and you want to move on you can. Even if his contract is a negative value you can always eat some money and trade him on in a rebuild- or he can make 27 million while everyone else makes minimum wage- it’s not that big a fucking deal. Anyone who is fine with seeing the back of Correa at the end of 2021 should realize that we are likely giving up on any real chance to win another World Series. 
And it is my money- $20k in season tickets this year. I doubt I will renew as   It doesn’t particularly look to me like management is particularly trying to win anymore. 
I don’t get it at all. The young arms totally and completely reset out competitive window last year and we seem intent on taking that piece of good fortune that was given to us and pissing all over it. 
name me one thing Lunow ever did that was cheap?  Now fuck face click is going to let the heart of the team and the most talent on the team leave in back to back winters without ever even lifting a finger to keep them around. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[henrygandorf 29194]

5-125 isn't an insult.  but yeah, he wasn't going to take it.

his children's children will never have money problems if he takes that deal, or whatever deal he gets from the yankees in dec.

[Scraps 13570]

How far does Yordans homer tonight go? 1000ft? 1500?

[Wulaw Horn 19145]

15 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

5-125 isn't an insult.  but yeah, he wasn't going to take it.

his children's children will never have money problems if he takes that deal, or whatever deal he gets from the yankees in dec.

It is when you offer that to a 26 year old. Hell- it’s less than 31 year old springer got. It’s not as insulting as 6/120 but it isn’t “let’s work in good faith to get a deal done” either. 

[HtownHorn 14760]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Here’s an article that looks at the success of big, long MLB contracts. It paints a pretty negative picture

https://www.jaketaraska.com/do-big-mlb-contracts-equate-to-success/

 

The Mets are idiots for giving a HOF contract to a very good player. I'm sure Daniela is going to be looking for something similar, so Correa better stay healthy this year.

[Chuckie Finster 22716]

Here’s the thing about Crane and I could be completely wrong but I think I’m right:
I don’t think he’s super domineering and I don’t think he’s calling all the shots or desires to call the shots. I think he probably gives his subordinates a lot of lattitude as to what they can do, and is there for guidance, parameters and the like. 
I’d be legitimately surprised if Click came to him with a 5 year plan to stay below the luxury tax (but barely so) while maintaining a potentially World Series contending team.  But I don’t think Click even made that argument or came to him with that plan with Carlos as part of it on a big deal. I think Click’s entire experience has been trying to maximize dollars per win and that’s not typically the teams that win titles. Sometimes you have to pay JD drew 18 million to suck for you and watch him hit the game winning grand slam to win the World Series for you. 
if the 5 year window is up, and Correa still has another 5 years on the deal, and you want to move on you can. Even if his contract is a negative value you can always eat some money and trade him on in a rebuild- or he can make 27 million while everyone else makes minimum wage- it’s not that big a fucking deal. Anyone who is fine with seeing the back of Correa at the end of 2021 should realize that we are likely giving up on any real chance to win another World Series. 
And it is my money- $20k in season tickets this year. I doubt I will renew as   It doesn’t particularly look to me like management is particularly trying to win anymore. 
I don’t get it at all. The young arms totally and completely reset out competitive window last year and we seem intent on taking that piece of good fortune that was given to us and pissing all over it. 
name me one thing Lunow ever did that was cheap?  Now fuck face click is going to let the heart of the team and the most talent on the team leave in back to back winters without ever even lifting a finger to keep them around. 

Looking forward to Gerrit Cole and Charlie Morton starting the first two games of this season, as it has been explained to me that Luhnow was never cheap so surely that means they re-signed with us.

Wulaw, man, you’re smarter than this. You’re entire paragraph begins with the assumption that Click sucks and then crafts a narrative to match. You don’t offer that insulting amount to Correa AND THEN NOT BUDGE unless you have been given explicit direction on how much the owner is willing to pay. Every person who covers the Astros has agreed that this is a Crane call, not Click. The idea that Jim Crane is willing to break the bank for Carlos but Click is the one standing in the way may be one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen written in this forum.

Edited to add: it sounds like I’m a huge Click homer, I assure you I’m not. The jury is still out to me. But not signing Springer or Correa to what would amount to the largest contracts in team history is not some evidence that he can’t do his job.

[Guadaloopy 11010]

Crane/Luhnow extended some core pieces while also trading for two of the most expensive arms in baseball, and extended one of them. 
 

Crane’s willingness to spend is not the issue. However, I don’t think he will spend without a really solid plan behind it.  I’m not sure Click has that plan.  

[runthebone 8027]

Let's see what Correa does in a contract year. We can figure everything else out after we win another title this year.