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2021 Houston Astros Thread

Planet Houston

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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

there's so much to unpack from today, so i'll just start listing them. tuesday was devastating for oakland, today was twice as devastating for the yankees.  they had just started to play better. 

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

The boy and I were at the last ALCS clincher - we were walking on air for days after Altuve’s walkoff. Today, the boy is 5,000 miles and 7 hours away, with no way to watch. So we did a video chat, w

Helobious
Helobious

Enjoy it. Old Altuve, no more Correa means this is the very end of the road for your tainted dynasty. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, runthebone said:

This team is kind of infuriating.

Yeah. They really suck right now. Such is sort of the nature of baseball that you just look awful when you are on a losing streak and it feels like the world will never be right again. 
that’s certainly the vibe this team is giving off right now. All that matters is 3 more astros wins/chi sox losses for home field and then getting right for the real season that starts 11 days from today. 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They were walked off in one. Also, those games were Sept. 8-10 with a DH on the 9th. This feels a little different being two weeks later in the season.

We were also up in the division by 13 games after getting swept.

Ah I stopped reading after Astros swept. Too pissed for that right now.

We just got swept in The Town and walked off twice  in shame. Disgusting series.

Edited by Gourmand
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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Dusty Baker.

No ace.

Bullpen leaking oil.

Streaky line up.

Fingers crossed.

It's really fucking silly to keep banging on this Dusty Baker drum. It's just ageist bullshit that flows out of a long-standing and unfounded "Dusty Baker sucks" narrative. Cmon dude you're smarter than that. 

It's okay to just blame the players. They are the ones who actually determine which team wins and which team loses. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15260

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

It's really fucking silly to keep banging on this Dusty Baker drum. It's just ageist bullshit that flows out of a long-standing and unfounded "Dusty Baker sucks" narrative. Cmon dude you're smarter than that. 

It's okay to just blame the players. They are the ones who actually determine which team wins and which team loses. 

Dude. Baker sucks. Hopefully we can send him off to his 5th retirement with a WS win, but he should no longer be the manager after this season.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

This is true. @Wulaw Horn needs to own that fuck up.

Yes- given the choice for me to make the Astros a throw in - this could happen today- thing that was clearly an after thought or blaming Dusty Baker for being a moron and not using his 3 best pitchers in the 2 biggest leverage situations in the game by all means blame my fat ass and ignore dusty blowing another game. It’s almost Like there’s a reason his teams underperform their peripherals and true talent level, and that reason is he’s a moron. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

It's really fucking silly to keep banging on this Dusty Baker drum. It's just ageist bullshit that flows out of a long-standing and unfounded "Dusty Baker sucks" narrative. Cmon dude you're smarter than that. 

It's okay to just blame the players. They are the ones who actually determine which team wins and which team loses. 

It’s also ok to say- hey- I might like this guy but he’s a fucking moron, a conclusion that literally every other fan base and all the numbers and logic throughout his entire career have come to. 
Sure it’s ultimately the players responsibility to win or lose the game, but as long as the sport has a manager tasked with making strategic decisions maybe he should do his job and be better. 
this has nothing to do with results his process is flawed. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15260

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yes- given the choice for me to make the Astros a throw in - this could happen today- thing that was clearly an after thought or blaming Dusty Baker for being a moron and not using his 3 best pitchers in the 2 biggest leverage situations in the game by all means blame my fat ass and ignore dusty blowing another game. It’s almost Like there’s a reason his teams underperform their peripherals and true talent level, and that reason is he’s a moron. 

No I agree with you on Dusty. Dave Martinez took Dusty's 97 win team minus Harper to a WS title two years after Dusty couldn't bother to get out of the Divisional round. It really is amazing that you lost a series to a team that hit .180 for the series, and your team pitched to a 2.66 era, but Dusty managed it.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

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Posted

I do t judge managers by results- anything can happen in baseball. Bad calls turn out good and good calls turn out bad all the time you can stay on 12 against a dealer 10 in blackjack and win- it happens. 
but incremental advantages are a real thing and Dusty Baker pulling the levers is like having  an anchor attached to your team. 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Dude. Baker sucks. Hopefully we can send him off to his 5th retirement with a WS win, but he should no longer be the manager after this season.

Stupid take. He's fine, he has the support of his players, and--here's the thing--HE"S NOT THE OLD SCHOOL DUSTY BAKER EVERYONE MADE FUN OF DURING THE FIRE JOE MORGAN YEARS.

He's doing EXACTLY what Click and Crane want. The ugly truth is that there are some icky -ism words that are very much the reason for so many baseball fans deriding Dusty Baker. 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

thing that was clearly an after thought or blaming Dusty Baker for being a moron and not using his 3 best pitchers in the 2 biggest leverage situations in the game by all means blame my fat ass and ignore dusty blowing another game.

and who would those be right now????? 

this is complete horseshit. not only is the entire bullpen sucking ass lately but the offense can't score shit and then a rookie ignores his third base coach and goes for broke while our own Cuban Paul Bunyan awaits on deck. I don't give a shit if the manager is Dusty Baker or AJ Hinch but blaming the manager for the team's shitty play the last four games is just misdirected frustration at unpalatable results. 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Dave Martinez took Dusty's 97 win team minus Harper to a WS title two years after Dusty couldn't bother to get out of the Divisional round.

"..after Dusty couldn't bother to get out of the divisional round?"

Do you hear how fucking idiotic this reads? Did Dusty Baker pitch, hit, or field in that best-of-five series vs Chicago that was ultimately decided by a 9-8 Cubs win in game 5? Did Davey Martinez pull some magic levers that Dusty wouldn't have otherwise that kept that Howie Kendrick HR fair or Juan Soto constantly on base or Greinke out of the game for Will Harris? One could just as reasonably argue that Dusty Baker laid the foundation that allowed Davey Martinez to win a World Series only to then watch as the 2020 and 2021 Nationals sucked fucking ass. 

I just don't think managers are that determinative in the bigger scheme of things. They play a role, but their role is to lead and get out of the way for their players to perform on the field. I don't think there's any argument that Baker has done a good job of that with the 2020/2021 Houston Astros. 

 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

and who would those be right now????? 

this is complete horseshit. not only is the entire bullpen sucking ass lately but the offense can't score shit and then a rookie ignores his third base coach and goes for broke while our own Cuban Paul Bunyan awaits on deck. I don't give a shit if the manager is Dusty Baker or AJ Hinch but blaming the manager for the team's shitty play the last four games is just misdirected frustration at unpalatable results. 

Bringing Maton in to that situation in the 7th was a terrible idea. You use your highest value relievers in the highest leverage situations. I don’t care what the results are if the process is sound. This wasn’t that. You arguing otherwise doesn’t change that. 
Point to one time where I’ve ever complained bc the results went against us when the process was sound. You cannot bc that’s not how I do baseball. 
If Dusty Baker was playing black jack I would get up and leave the table because he would do things mathematically incorrect and it would probably drive me crazy. He does not maximize. Which might be ok if he always believed in using guys in a traditional role or way- there’s something to be said for that too. But he doesn’t. It’s a hodge podge. And it’s irritating. And it has nothing to do with his color for me, at least, and I honestly wouldn’t think it has to do with anyone else on here.  
Therr are a lot of stupid baseball fans that second guess good decisions because they don’t work out and blame the manager. This thread isn’t an example of that. People here don’t typically tend to second guess because a decision went wrong. Get beat with your best and them used in the right way and it’s a collective shrug and move on. People here are first guessing before results bc he makes many strategic miscalculations. 
nobody was blaming him for Siri or anything stupid like that. They were saying- hey- don’t send your seventh best pitcher into the biggest spot in the game. And they were right. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

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7 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

 

I just don't think managers are that determinative in the bigger scheme of things. They play a role, but their role is to lead and get out of the way for their players to perform on the there's any argument that Baker has done a good job of that with the 2020/2021 Houston Astros. 

 

This is completely true and I agree with you 100%. Over a long enough period of time the difference between the best strategic manager and the worst is probably 2 or 3 games a year is all. But we pay guys $10 million per WAR in the open market and we have entire departments created looking for a 5/10th of a point advantage here or there. It does sort of matter at the margins and baseball is a game where the margins are important during a 162 game season bc there are so many inputs. 
the 2020 team finished below 500 after having been awesome. Cool. Whatever. Covid weird yada yada. This team is underperforming it’s peripheral numbers and much worse record wise than similar type teams that came before it (2017 and 18- 2019 was a class above). That doesn’t make a good argument for him being a good skipper.yes- guys seem to like him and are willing to play for him. You could do worse. But you could also do a lot better and when he makes a mistake it’s more glaring bc it’s an unforced error/nobody else is throwing 97 on the black trying to prevent him from making the right decision.  

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

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Who are those high leverage relievers you wanted him to use in the 7th inning? The same guys who allowed multiple baserunners last night and then blew the game and allowed a walk off win for the As? Graveman threw thirty pitches last night, it's absurd to think that he should come in the game in the 7th and you need to keep Pressly for later in the game since Maton only needed to get one out. And he still left the game tied.

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7778

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This is completely true and I agree with you 100%. Over a long enough period of time the difference between the best strategic manager and the worst is probably 2 or 3 games a year is all. But we pay guys $10 million per WAR in the open market and we have entire departments created looking for a 5/10th of a point advantage here or there. It does sort of matter at the margins and baseball is a game where the margins are important during a 162 game season bc there are so many inputs. 
the 2020 team finished below 500 after having been awesome. Cool. Whatever. Covid weird yada yada. This team is underperforming it’s peripheral numbers and much worse record wise than similar type teams that came before it (2017 and 18- 2019 was a class above). That doesn’t make a good argument for him being a good skipper.yes- guys seem to like him and are willing to play for him. You could do worse. But you could also do a lot better and when he makes a mistake it’s more glaring bc it’s an unforced error/nobody else is throwing 97 on the black trying to prevent him from making the right decision.  

James Click/Jim Crane have far more blame for the team underperforming imo than Dusty Baker because management didn't adequately address the bullpen issues early on and also failed to land an ace starting pitcher at the deadline. We could have had McHugh in the offseason and they didn't even give him a sniff.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19607

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Posted
7 hours ago, Gourmand said:

James Click/Jim Crane have far more blame for the team underperforming imo than Dusty Baker because management didn't adequately address the bullpen issues early on and also failed to land an ace starting pitcher at the deadline. We could have had McHugh in the offseason and they didn't even give him a sniff.

I think the downgrade from Lunow  to Click is huge. I really don’t like click. Also, I think lunow would have locked Correa up already. 

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