MLB Expansion: Austin on the radar?

[TonyTexas 10504]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I predict the A’s to Vegas, the Rays to Charlotte, and Austin and Nashville eventually get the expansion teams. If the Rays stay put then Charlotte and Austin are the expansion teams.

If the Rays go anywhere, it will be to Montreal. There have already been discussions about splitting the season between Tampa and there. 

[Guest Lobo]

Plus the cultural similarities between the very globally-renowned cosmopolitan Montreal and the city of Saint Petersburg, which Details magazine once called "Florida's least offensive metropolitan area" are vast and deep.  

But yeah, Rays would go to Montreal, if anywhere.  A second "south" team makes the most sense for MLB.  Growing populations.  Miami isn't really "the South" and Atlanta can't be the darling forever.  That many people between Dallas/Houston and Atlanta, from Cincinnati down to Miami...they're gonna need more than just the Braves.  Maybe not the A's, but somebody.  And soon.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

If the Rays go anywhere, it will be to Montreal. There have already been discussions about splitting the season between Tampa and there. 

If Montreal was located in America this would be a no brainer. But it’s not so I just don’t know. 

[Jameslaw121 4448]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:36 AM, TrashMaster G said:

Why NFL and not MLB?  Vegas' AAA team draws very well.

People will go to Vegas for a weekend when they're favorite NFL team is playing. I would bet that half or more of the fans on any given Sunday are tourist. And you can get that kind of draw for 8/9 home games a year. I don't think you'll have the same thing for 81 baseball games. 

[bolverk 29646]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/13/mlb-says-oakland-as-can-explore-new-markets-but-where-would-they-go.html

MLB says Oakland A’s can explore new markets, but it’s not clear where they’d go

Perhaps Major League Baseball is bluffing as it plays a game of baseball liar’s dice to help the Oakland Athletics secure a new ballpark site.

Major League Baseball said on Tuesday that the Oakland Athletics could explore other cities if a $12 billion waterfront development project, which would include a new stadium, isn’t approved.

The team wants out of the Oakland Coliseum, which first opened in 1966. To get a sense of how old the Coliseum is, the Atlanta Braves and Texas Rangers have landed two new stadiums since the A’s began playing at the Coliseum in 1968.

The frustration from this dice game is well described in Marcus Thompson’s recent article in The Athletic. Saying goodbye to the A’s was the theme.

It’s sort of like the scene from the second “Pirates of the Caribbean” movie when Davy Jones played pirates liar’s dice with Will Turner and his dad. The game is built on deception and bluffing, but eventually a liar will be revealed and lose the game.

“It’s just another pebble in a pond of confusion,” said sports executive and former A’s vice president Andy Dolich.

“Every decade, since the late 1980s, it’s been at some point under consideration,” added former MLB executive Marty Conway. “Should the A’s move? Will they move? What’s the circumstance?”

Remember the Montreal Expos
Conway, who served as a special assistant under former MLB commissioner Peter Ueberroth, compared the A’s dilemma to the Montreal Expos. MLB’s first Canadian team moved in 2004 after a battle to replace the aging Olympic Stadium, which hosted its first baseball game in 1977.

“It just became impossible to go forward with,” said Conway of playing at Olympic Stadium. The Expos are now the Washington Nationals and play in an over $600 million stadium that opened in 2008.

The A’s have their eyes on a new park at Oakland’s Charles P. Howard Terminal. The development would feature a 35,000-seat stadium, shopping, hotel property, commercial and residential units. The team presented its plan and is hoping for approval this summer.

“It’s either Howard or bust for Oakland,” A’s president Dave Kaval told an NBC Sports Bay Area earlier this week. “We’re going to do everything we can to keep advancing that.”

But if the city doesn’t approve, what will the A’s do? Other towns can be used for leverage, but where would the A’s play? And would MLB owners approve relocation to an expansion territory and miss out on a $2 billion fee?

“There are a few more pieces on the board to think about,” Conway said, adding the league still needs to resolve labor issues with players before seriously worrying about stadium problems.

“And if you’re the owner, moving a baseball team and remaining the owner is a difficult situation,” Conway added. “What usually works is you end up selling to somebody, and they move it.”

Where is the owner?
The A’s are worth roughly $1.12 billion, according to Forbes. The team is historically known for mastering the use of baseball analytics, thanks to Billy Beane. And right now, the A’s are in first place in the American League West division.

Still, A’s owner John Fisher remains out of the spotlight. He’s the son of Doris and Donald Fisher, the founders of retail empire Gap Inc., and he’s relying on Kaval to land him a new park the same way Kaval did in 2015 for the San Jose Earthquakes, a Major League Soccer franchise Fisher also owns.

The $12 billion number is for the entire waterfront development project, but landing a new park at the terminal location would cost $2 billion. The A’s want public money, though, and Oakland officials appear in no hurry to provide it.

There is a sense among some sports bankers that Fisher wants to remain in the Bay Area, and if he can’t land a new park, perhaps he’ll sell the team or move.

A move to Sacramento might work. There is a push in Nashville, where former A’s legend Dave Stewart is helping to lure a team. Portland’s interest has gone quiet. Las Vegas, where the former Oakland Raiders of the National Football League now reside, is tweeting about its interest.

The speculation about the A’s future is all over the place.

“One of the easiest things to do in sports is to say you’re going to buy a sports team,” Dolich said. “One of the hardest things to do is to end up owning one. I think it’s just another level of confusion that has to drive their fans crazy.”

Now a sports business professor at Georgetown University, Conway said the decision could come down to the wire in 2024, when the A’s lease expires.

“It’s easy to say ‘let the lease run out, and then you can do whatever,’” he said. “But those are difficult times – those single and two-year renewals.”

Three strikes and Oakland is out
Eventually, city officials will reveal their dice, too. Will they let MLB escape like the NFL and the National Basketball Association, whose Golden State Warriors relocated across the Bay to San Francisco? Oakland mayor Libby Schaaf used her media appearance on Wednesday to express optimism about the A’s staying.

The executives with a history of MLB experience suggested caution moving forward, as the risk of losing a third pro sports team is greater than ever.

“There is a football team that used to be called the Oakland Raiders. Now, they aren’t,” said Dolich. “There is a basketball team that used to play in that Oakland arena; now it doesn’t. So, you’ve got to think about that seriously.”

“And if they move, there is no going back,” Conway added. “It’s not like Oakland is going to get an expansion team if they lose this team. It’s not going to happen. Baseball will not go back to a market where they already have the Giants.”

The game of baseball liar’s dice continues in Oakland. And once complete, a similar contest awaits MLB in Tampa Bay.

[bolverk 29646]

Rays stadium talks are starting all over. And that’s the good news.
John Romano | The St. Petersburg City Council put a halt to the mayor’s plan to begin redeveloping the Trop site, but Council members did not exactly interrogate Rays brass.

ST. PETERSBURG — The precise language of the resolution passed by the St. Petersburg City Council on Thursday is rather formal. If you’re not well versed in the verbiage of governmental agencies, allow me to interpret: Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate? Rays! Rays! Rays!

And if you play the recording of the Council meeting backwards it says: Stick it, Mayor Kriseman.

Yes, there are several clear conclusions to be drawn from the way Council members questioned Rays ownership — or rather, failed to question Rays ownership — about the proposed redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site.

1. The Rays have done a masterful job of lobbying individual Council members in private. They’ve convinced at least six of the eight members that it’s worth exploring the sister city concept with Montreal, which is an impressive turnaround considering how tepid enthusiasm was for that concept just a short time ago.

2. The Council reaaaaaalllly doesn’t like Rick Kriseman’s administration, and basically hung the mayor out to dry.

3. Next mayor up.

For the average Rays fan, this was probably good news. Kriseman has been pushing to hire a developer for the Tropicana site despite not having a deal in place with the team, and the Council just threw a bucket of ice on that plan by suggesting it will not approve a development deal. Now the Rays are back at the table when it comes to redevelopment talks, and a solution is not likely to be found until a new mayor replaces the term-limited Kriseman in January.

For the average taxpayer, it’s a little harder to decipher. Losing the Rays would stink, no doubt about that. It would stink economically, it would stink reputationally, it would stink from a quality-of-life perspective.

So Council members did the right thing by stomping on the brakes of Kriseman’s runaway bulldozer, but they did nothing to assure St. Pete residents that they can be trusted to be dutiful watchdogs when the day finally comes to making the difficult choice of potentially spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build a stadium for a part-time team.

The whole point of Thursday’s meeting was for the Council to hear from the Rays, who said nothing that they haven’t said in public a dozen times before. Yet not one Council member asked a question that could be remotely described as probing.

How much would a part-time stadium cost? How much are the Rays willing to pay? Why should the city give the team complete control over 25 acres of development, as Kriseman has suggested was part of the team’s proposal? What minimum guarantees will there be for the number of regular-season and postseason games in the split plan?

What happens if Montreal doesn’t get a stadium built? What happens if Major League Baseball’s Players Association does not sign off on this? Is there no scenario where the Rays remain in Tampa Bay full time? How can St. Pete be sure this isn’t a ploy to eventually move to Tampa or elsewhere?

Maybe Council members have asked these questions in private, but why not ask them in a public setting so residents could hear the answers for themselves? Basically, the Council begged for a turn at the plate, then didn’t even take a swing.

While the tenor of the Council meeting suggested there will be no solution until the next mayoral administration, both Kriseman and Rays owner Stuart Sternberg told me afterward that they are open to continuing talks.

“We’re trying to get things done. It sounds like the Council would like to get things done,” Sternberg said. “The mayor can move things along, or continue with his own process. I can’t say what’s right or wrong. In fairness he is the one who did reach out to us last summer.”

Kriseman, who has been very critical of the split season plan, said he would be willing to discuss the issue with the Rays, but is adamant the city’s general revenue funds will not be used on a part-time stadium. He also said he will not allow large parcels of land to be out of the city’s control because he wants to make sure that long-ago promises of providing opportunities for the surrounding community comes to fruition.

The concern is the Rays would maximize the revenues for any land they control in order to pay for the stadium, and things like affordable housing would be relegated to the less desirable parcels of land.

“The deal they (originally) presented to me, I could not do and I was very clear as to why,” Kriseman said. “I would expect the community around that property would look at that deal and say, ‘They are doing it to us again.’”

Is there a chance Kriseman and the Rays find common ground before 2021 ends? I would seriously doubt it. If anything, the Council’s obsequious performance on Thursday emboldened the Rays and annoyed the mayor.

But, in a big-picture sense, the Council did the right thing by throwing up a road block.

It made no sense to begin the redevelopment process without knowing whether a baseball stadium will be part of the process, and it’s best to have a new mayoral administration make that call.

Is the Montreal play feasible? Smart? Real?

Unfortunately, we are no closer to answering any of those questions today. But at least we have more time to consider them, and that’s a good thing.

[clapclapclap 9000]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

There is a push in Nashville, where former A’s legend Dave Stewart is helping to lure a team. 

Ballsy, since he was previously arrested for luring Sheena.

[Beau Vine 54203]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

Ballsy, since he was previously arrested for luring Sheena.

That wasn't Sheena.

[clapclapclap 9000]

Just going with Tone Loc's testimony:  

I went up to this girl, she said, "Hi, my name is Sheena"
I thought she'd be good to go with a little Funky Cold Medina
She said, I'd like a drink, I said, "Ehm, ok, I'll go get it"
Then a couple sips, she cold licked her lips
And I knew that she was with it

So, I took her to my crib and everything went well as planned
But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man

Edited May 16, 2021 by clapclapclap
NTTAWWT

[Deej 76750]

24 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Just going with Tone Loc's testimony:  

I went up to this girl, she said, "Hi, my name is Sheena"
I thought she'd be good to go with a little Funky Cold Medina
She said, I'd like a drink, I said, "Ehm, ok, I'll go get it"
Then a couple sips, she cold licked her lips
And I knew that she was with it

So, I took her to my crib and everything went well as planned
But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man

 

[Dnaguy 11915]

6 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Just going with Tone Loc's testimony:  

I went up to this girl, she said, "Hi, my name is Sheena"
I thought she'd be good to go with a little Funky Cold Medina
She said, I'd like a drink, I said, "Ehm, ok, I'll go get it"
Then a couple sips, she cold licked her lips
And I knew that she was with it

So, I took her to my crib and everything went well as planned
But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man

 

6 hours ago, Deej said:

 

 

[troph 24781]

I used to be against this but if it thins out the "fans" at DFF and stupid insane posts here then I'm all for it.

[Helobious 9456]

Austin FC was the last new pro sports franchise Texas is ever getting. Deal with it. The big 4 leagues are never expanding again and SA/Austin aren’t on any radars for relocation. 

[wood 11225]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Austin FC was the last new pro sports franchise Texas is ever getting. Deal with it. The big 4 leagues are never expanding again and SA/Austin aren’t on any radars for relocation. 

Meh. Go fuck yourself and your endless shitty takes.

[troph 24781]

3 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Austin FC was the last new pro sports franchise Texas is ever getting. Deal with it. The big 4 leagues are never expanding again and SA/Austin aren’t on any radars for relocation. 

fine with me, keep austin down if they must, just like stupid threads on the baseball board.

[Guest Lobo]

An MLB franchise would not take fans away from the Disch.  The overlap of seasons would be for less than six weeks.  Early April to mid May.  That’s it.  Every other year, probably a regional or super to schedule around.  Between April-early June, on average…Texas plays about 18 home games.  Home games for an Austin MLB franchise during that period would be about 26-28 games.  You’d have overlap of maybe a dozen dates.

our athletics dept wouldn’t lose any sleep over that number because such a franchise/ownership group would make up for that  ten-fold  in development and exposure.  

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:18 AM, Helobious said:

Austin FC was the last new pro sports franchise Texas is ever getting. Deal with it. The big 4 leagues are never expanding again and SA/Austin aren’t on any radars for relocation. 

I think this is probably spot on when it comes to the Big Four. TV is such a big piece of it, and I think the owners would rather move to a new market like Nashville or Charlotte vs. cannibalizing existing Astros or Rangers fans. I am not saying that is right, but I suspect that is how they will think about it. It may not be fair, but I am guessing that is how they will think about it. Generally speaking, I am surprised baseball would consider expanding at all. Relocation of the A's and Rays makes sense but I am not sure expansion does IMHO.

[TonyTexas 10504]

I think Houston will get an NHL franchise at some point. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, Houston getting an NHL team makes all kinds of sense.  It's by far the largest city without one.  I would love to have NHL hockey that close.  I miss live hockey much more than live pro basketball and I grew up on the 80's & 90's Bulls teams.  

I think the next 'new' franchise(s) will be in the "South."  Just too big a void with too much population growth/relocation happening in it. From Dallas/Houston to the Atlantic ocean, south of D.C. to the Gulf...all there is Atlanta and Tampa Bay (and the Rays could bolt tomorrow and no one would know, with all due respect to their recent success).  I don't consider, and most southerners would agree, Miami to be a "south" franchise.  They have almost zero appeal outside of that MSA, and their nearly 30 years of mediocrity reflect that.  As I've stated, Austin only gets an MLB franchise through relocation, not expansion.  

Saw something that surprised me...if you include MLS...out of the 'Big 5' sports...San Antonio is the largest city that has only 1 of those 5 leagues represented.  There'll never be an NFL team there.  With Austin FC, MLS won't be going there (they tried hard for years to get one).  NHL is going to Houston way before San Antonio.  An MLB franchise could still land in between Austin and San Antonio, but not likely.  

But just think about the sheer size of Texas.  30mm people now and growing faster than anywhere else except Idaho, 5 of the 12 largest American cities.  Only 2 football teams, 2 baseball teams, 1 hockey team, 3 basketball teams, and 3 MLS teams.  That's not going to last much longer.  There'll be another NHL and MLB franchise here within a dozen years.

[Tex-19 2872]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, Houston getting an NHL team makes all kinds of sense.  It's by far the largest city without one.  I would love to have NHL hockey that close.  I miss live hockey much more than live pro basketball and I grew up on the 80's & 90's Bulls teams.  

I think the next 'new' franchise(s) will be in the "South."  Just too big a void with too much population growth/relocation happening in it. From Dallas/Houston to the Atlantic ocean, south of D.C. to the Gulf...all there is Atlanta and Tampa Bay (and the Rays could bolt tomorrow and no one would know, with all due respect to their recent success).  I don't consider, and most southerners would agree, Miami to be a "south" franchise.  They have almost zero appeal outside of that MSA, and their nearly 30 years of mediocrity reflect that.  As I've stated, Austin only gets an MLB franchise through relocation, not expansion.  

Saw something that surprised me...if you include MLS...out of the 'Big 5' sports...San Antonio is the largest city that has only 1 of those 5 leagues represented.  There'll never be an NFL team there.  With Austin FC, MLS won't be going there (they tried hard for years to get one).  NHL is going to Houston way before San Antonio.  An MLB franchise could still land in between Austin and San Antonio, but not likely.  

But just think about the sheer size of Texas.  30mm people now and growing faster than anywhere else except Idaho, 5 of the 12 largest American cities.  Only 2 football teams, 2 baseball teams, 1 hockey team, 3 basketball teams, and 3 MLS teams.  That's not going to last much longer.  There'll be another NHL and MLB franchise here within a dozen years.

What about NHL in Austin? Less cannibalizing of viewers in TX, no other Big 4 pro sports to compete with, and it's just the sort of "weird" thing I could see Austin people rallying behind. Like Nashville. Plus you've got all these northerners moving down.

I think NHL could do well in Houston too but Houston does already have 3 teams (plus MLS) so people may already have their fix of pro sports to support

[Guest Lobo]

TonyTexas had a number of good posts on the subject of hockey (minor and major) in Houston on this thread IIRC.  I'd start there.  

IF, and only if, NHL passes on Houston...would Austin get an NHL franchise.  

Moody Arena can't be configured big enough for an NHL arena.  You'd need a substantial build in downtown or the Domain to capture 12-18k attendees, 41 nights a year.  Austin wouldn't have a hard time filling weekday day games for baseball since nobody in this town works on Thursday or Friday afternoons.  But NHL weekday games are 100% at night.  so you could put it a bit farther outta town, perhaps on the way to San Antonio.  This inevitable MSA would be very attractive for an NHL franchise.  But again only if something can't be worked out with Houston.  And even if something can't be worked out with Houston, they may another crack at it 10 years later.  You can't start down the path with Austin while still thinking Houston.  It's binary, IMO.  One of those cities, and one only.  I'd love to have something to go watch while in Houston on business from Nov-Apr.  

[n64ra 1080]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:18 AM, Helobious said:

Austin FC was the last new pro sports franchise Texas is ever getting. Deal with it. The big 4 leagues are never expanding again and SA/Austin aren’t on any radars for relocation.

Never expanding again? The MLB commissioner already mentioned six sites and no way the NBA stays at 30 if the NFL and MLB are at 32. True Rob Manfred didn't mention Austin or SA for MLB, but the NHL would be silly to perpetually pass over Houston for a relocation. Then there's that number - 32. We're in the midst of the longest stretch without NFL expansion (going to hit 20 years in 2022). Who say's the NFL can't host 33 or 34 teams or up to 40 teams in the next half decade? That makes SA an option.

Edited June 29, 2021 by n64ra

[wood 11225]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:53 PM, TonyTexas said:

I think Houston will get an NHL franchise at some point. 

That'd be cool. Maybe someday they could even get pro football back in town.

[wood 11225]

Buffalo Bills to Austin? Probably not, but you never know. The fact that Austin is in the discussion is significant, imho.

[Beau Vine 54203]

7 hours ago, wood said:

Buffalo Bills to Austin? Probably not, but you never know. The fact that Austin is in the discussion is significant, imho.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Beau Vine

[TonyTexas 10504]

Restart the pipe dream

As a former Oiler fan, I’ve seen this story before and know how it ended. However, so have Rangers’ fans. Team demands a new stadium despite its current one being relatively new. Very different result. 

 

[The Dark Knight 173]

6 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Restart the pipe dream

As a former Oiler fan, I’ve seen this story before and know how it ended. However, so have Rangers’ fans. Team demands a new stadium despite its current one being relatively new. Very different result. 

 

Bring back the Oilers. I know it’s been said many times on this site, but it’s awful that the Titans kept the Houston history. Have tried but just have never felt the same affection for the Texans.

[F250 28761]

7 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Restart the pipe dream

As a former Oiler fan, I’ve seen this story before and know how it ended. However, so have Rangers’ fans. Team demands a new stadium despite its current one being relatively new. Very different result. 

 

That's not happening.