2021 - Is inflation finally back in the conversation?

[lucious leftfoot 126]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Ah 1980, the beginning of the debt monster. Fiscal responsibility at its best 

Actually, it’s 1971. IYKYK

[jimmyjazz 45975]

46 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Actually, it’s 1971. IYKYK

End of Bretton Woods?  Not sure that explains everything that happened afterwards.

[lucious leftfoot 126]

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

End of Bretton Woods?  Not sure that explains everything that happened afterwards.

Sure it does. That’s when we fully transitioned to a fiat standard. No restriction on the ability to print. 

[Captainant 27680]

Just now, lucious leftfoot said:

Sure it does. That’s when we fully transitioned to a fiat standard. No restriction on the ability to print. 

I gotta say, GRUhorn, props for holding off on pulling the mask off for a bit longer. You resisted posting in the crypto thread for longer than normal

[Parliament 14260]

1 hour ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Actually, it’s 1971. IYKYK

 

[lucious leftfoot 126]

21 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I gotta say, GRUhorn, props for holding off on pulling the mask off for a bit longer. You resisted posting in the crypto thread for longer than normal

Wait, there’s a crypto thread?

[B00M 6418]

3 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Wait, there’s a crypto thread?

[StassneyHorn 6613]

lol Sunday porch drinking has you thinking “double couponing” is some slam again. Not one person is cutting out shit with scissors.

It’s a Kroger card. It’s free. There is nothing to fill out. You get lower prices. You pull it out same time as debit/credit card. 

“I demand to pay full, selfishly inflated prices!”

It’s quite literally the effort of Ron Swanson writing down he can do whatever he wants.

[StassneyHorn 6613]

In fact you should be calling it “no couponing” 

[Incredulity 11675]

57 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

lol Sunday porch drinking has you thinking “double couponing” is some slam again

[fattyflattie 4639]

16 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

It’s a Kroger card. It’s free. There is nothing to fill out. You get lower prices. You pull it out same time as debit/credit card. 

 

Kroger?  The fuck?

[Trey3216 15347]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:35 AM, B00M said:

I actually would appreciate seeing how much of the current deficit is due to reduced revenues and his much is due to increased borrowing costs. If you feel like nerding out a bit 

You should see the portions that are due to expenditures... 

[StassneyHorn 6613]

46 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Kroger?  The fuck?

I’m out of state, although HEB has one too

[lucious leftfoot 126]

On 4/28/2024 at 12:16 PM, Brisketexan said:

Most every economy would love our mix of inflation and GDP.

Too bad the people disagree. They need to check in with some of the posters here. 
 

To me, this reads that inflation is underreported on the things people actually need. Because unemployment levels are good. GDP is increasing. What else explains the dissatisfaction ?

[Brisketexan 105154]

14 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Too bad the people disagree. They need to check in with some of the posters here. 
 

To me, this reads that inflation is underreported on the things people actually need. Because unemployment levels are good. GDP is increasing. What else explains the dissatisfaction ?

What explains it?

A constant bombardment of "WORST ECONOMY EVER!  BIDENOMICS!"  from the entire right-wing media sphere.  Human beings will believe anything if it is relentlessly pounded into their heads.

[jimmyjazz 45975]

Yup, a significant majority of adult Americans have never taken a freshman level macroeconomics course.  They believe what they're told, and what they're being told is a whole lot of fiction.

Most of them would tell you "Guns or Butter" is a hard rock band from LA.

Edited April 29 by jimmyjazz

[lucious leftfoot 126]

33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What explains it?

A constant bombardment of "WORST ECONOMY EVER!  BIDENOMICS!"  from the entire right-wing media sphere.  Human beings will believe anything if it is relentlessly pounded into their heads.

It’s a CNN poll. 
 

Is the “right wing media sphere” of Fox News so pervasive that it sways 70% people’s minds against the self-evident truth?

 

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yup, a significant majority of adult Americans have never taken a freshman level macroeconomics course.  They believe what they're told, and what they're being told is a whole lot of fiction.

Most of them would tell you "Guns or Butter" is a hard rock band from LA.

Who you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?

This is essentially economic gaslighting.

What do you mean you’re having a hard time, baby? Look at these official GDP and inflation figures. You’re doing great. 

[jimmyjazz 45975]

7 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

It’s a CNN poll. 
 

Is the “right wing media sphere” of Fox News so pervasive that it sways 70% people’s minds against the self-evident truth?

 

Who you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?

This is essentially economic gaslighting.

What do you mean you’re having a hard time, baby? Look at these official GDP and inflation figures. You’re doing great. 

I mean, we know wage growth is outpacing price growth, so what exactly is your point, GRUHorn?

[Captainant 27680]

35 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

It’s a CNN poll. 
 

Is the “right wing media sphere” of Fox News so pervasive that it sways 70% people’s minds against the self-evident truth?

 

Who you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?

This is essentially economic gaslighting.

What do you mean you’re having a hard time, baby? Look at these official GDP and inflation figures. You’re doing great. 

I mean if you want smoke blown up your ass about the economy, that's more 52-80's beat than brisket or Jimmy. The """economy""" writ large is doing good if you're a stock monkey  because NGU, but if you're a wage earner you're at the tail end of a 4 decade long run of fucking workers over. 

The fucking workers over is tough to pin 100% on Biden unless you've got an agenda to push. But then again when haven't you had an agenda, GRU?

[lucious leftfoot 126]

29 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I mean, we know wage growth is outpacing price growth, so what exactly is your point, GRUHorn?

Ok, well I searched real wages on the Fred site and this is what I found. 
 

you’ll see at the top the Q1 2024 value is 365. In Q1 2020, on the brink of Covid, it was 367. So it’s been flat for 4 years. 
 

I will admit I’m too lazy to look up how Fed calculates real earnings, but I’m guessing it uses CPI or some derivative. If you’re understating or underweighting inflation, especially in things people actually want, then you will have artificially inflated real earnings. I suspect this is what the less rosy picture that people see is based on. 

[lucious leftfoot 126]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I mean if you want smoke blown up your ass about the economy, that's more 52-80's beat than brisket or Jimmy. The """economy""" writ large is doing good if you're a stock monkey  because NGU, but if you're a wage earner you're at the tail end of a 4 decade long run of fucking workers over. 

The fucking workers over is tough to pin 100% on Biden unless you've got an agenda to push. But then again when haven't you had an agenda, GRU?

This is the inflation thread. You, and others, keep bringing politician’s names into it. I’m a both sides money printing disrespectooooor. 

[Dbeasy 15068]

I really don’t understand why there is so much arguing in this thread. The deficits being run right now are considered a serious issue by just about every credible economist and fiscal policy maker out there. 

Both parties share the blame for this, some politicians more than others,and the only way to get this situation out of the extreme red zone is a combination of more taxation revenue carefully applied, more controlled spending, and using moderately higher inflation over the next 15 years to bleed away some of the debt as a percentage of gdp. That is the only solution. Period. 

The faster the parties come to terms with it and try to start solving it, the faster the danger can be reduced. Otherwise the climb to catastrophe continues. Maybe we do all end up on Bitcoin. 

[Captainant 27680]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

I really don’t understand why there is so much arguing in this thread. The deficits being run right now are considered a serious issue by just about every credible economist and fiscal policy maker out there. 

Both parties share the blame for this, some politicians more than others,and the only way to get this situation out of the extreme red zone is a combination of more taxation revenue carefully applied, more controlled spending, and using moderately higher inflation over the next 15 years to bleed away some of the debt as a percentage of gdp. That is the only solution. Period. 

The faster the parties come to terms with it and try to start solving it, the faster the danger can be reduced. Otherwise the climb to catastrophe continues. Maybe we do all end up on Bitcoin. 

My problem is that inflation is fundamentally too much money in the market - usually from debt based spending, and taxation is a direct way to remove money from the economy. That balance has been completely out of whack since the 2000s with the nonstop tax cuts and spending increases. No shit money is getting devalued! 

The problem is that it's a pretty exclusive position in America that "taxation is theft" and other such platitudes about how the gubmint is taking muh munee. The parties will have a hell of a time making those ends meet, because the hatred of taxation has now sublimated into dogma and id. And there's still a fuckin boatload of federal subsidy pouring out more and more money. 

There's gotta be a sink, or a negative input to a system. Otherwise it will invariably oscillate and escalate out of control

[Dbeasy 15068]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

My problem is that inflation is fundamentally too much money in the market - usually from debt based spending, and taxation is a direct way to remove money from the economy. That balance has been completely out of whack since the 2000s with the nonstop tax cuts and spending increases. No shit money is getting devalued! 

The problem is that it's a pretty exclusive position in America that "taxation is theft" and other such platitudes about how the gubmint is taking muh munee. The parties will have a hell of a time making those ends meet, because the hatred of taxation has now sublimated into dogma and id. And there's still a fuckin boatload of federal subsidy pouring out more and more money. 

There's gotta be a sink, or a negative input to a system. Otherwise it will invariably oscillate and escalate out of control

We agree, and if we agree that means it really should be done because we do not come from the same world outlook on many topics. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

10 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I really don’t understand why there is so much arguing in this thread. The deficits being run right now are considered a serious issue by just about every credible economist and fiscal policy maker out there. 

Both parties share the blame for this, some politicians more than others,and the only way to get this situation out of the extreme red zone is a combination of more taxation revenue carefully applied, more controlled spending, and using moderately higher inflation over the next 15 years to bleed away some of the debt as a percentage of gdp. That is the only solution. Period. 

The faster the parties come to terms with it and try to start solving it, the faster the danger can be reduced. Otherwise the climb to catastrophe continues. Maybe we do all end up on Bitcoin. 

It's formally lights out when the 100% of GDP is used to pay the interest on debts owed.  

[tbone_ 14128]

Seems to me the polls miss the point when asking about inflation.

Sure growth may have slowed, and people are maybe appreciative of that, but the real problem is rent, houses, groceries, and other shit just costs too damn much relative to what a lot of people make. We could grow at zero percent and that’s not gonna change things.

That’s what people are upset about. And it’s not going to change unless incomes grow faster than costs by a bunch. And our system isn’t going to allow that for the masses.

[Incredulity 11675]

37 minutes ago, Captainant said:

the 2000s with the nonstop tax cuts

What the fuck are you talking about?  You constantly piss down your leg about disinformation then come here with flat out lies.  Fuck off

[jimmyjazz 45975]

5 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Seems to me the polls miss the point when asking about inflation.

Sure growth may have slowed, and people are maybe appreciative of that, but the real problem is rent, houses, groceries, and other shit just costs too damn much relative to what a lot of people make.

I won't dispute that real estate exploded in the last 5-6 years, but a quick google search shows Austin rents are down 7.4% year over yeard, and up a net 18% since 2019.  That's 3.1% annual growth.  My math could be off, though, and the data could be wrong.  Just a snapshot.

[Captainant 27680]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

What the fuck are you talking about?  You constantly piss down your leg about disinformation then come here with flat out lies.  Fuck off

https://itep.org/federal-tax-cuts-in-the-bush-obama-and-trump-years/

Sorry I didn't include a link to back my claim of what happened in the past is what happened in the past. Taxes have been consistently cut while spending fueled by debt has grown over the same period (because taxes were cut). 

But if you'd care to give me a more cogent disagreement than quoting 7 words out of a post and saying "NYUH UH!!" that'd be neat

[lucious leftfoot 126]

30 minutes ago, Captainant said:

My problem is that inflation is fundamentally too much money in the market - usually from debt based spending, and taxation is a direct way to remove money from the economy. That balance has been completely out of whack since the 2000s with the nonstop tax cuts and spending increases. No shit money is getting devalued! 

The problem is that it's a pretty exclusive position in America that "taxation is theft" and other such platitudes about how the gubmint is taking muh munee. The parties will have a hell of a time making those ends meet, because the hatred of taxation has now sublimated into dogma and id. And there's still a fuckin boatload of federal subsidy pouring out more and more money. 

There's gotta be a sink, or a negative input to a system. Otherwise it will invariably oscillate and escalate out of control

Sure, let’s raise taxes. As I posted before, you can maybe milk another $500B out. That still leaves a $1.2T deficit last year if you did that. 
 

So that leaves spending cuts. Which would you suggest? Remember the freak out and horror of the sequester? And that was not much in the grand scheme of things. 
 

42 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I really don’t understand why there is so much arguing in this thread. The deficits being run right now are considered a serious issue by just about every credible economist and fiscal policy maker out there.

Well these credible economist and policy makers don’t seem to have a seat at the table of policy making. 
 

As far as the arguing, it really comes down to those who favor Keynesian policies and centralized planning vs the opposite. There’s some fraying at the edges of the current financial system based on the former. If that dogma fails dramatically, then it could/should lead people to question a lot. That’s troubling to them.

 

 

 

[Captainant 27680]

2 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Sure, let’s raise taxes. As I posted before, you can maybe milk another $500B out. That still leaves a $1.2T deficit last year if you did that. 
 

So that leaves spending cuts. Which would you suggest? Remember the freak out and horror of the sequester? And that was not much in the grand scheme of things. 

We didn't get into this debt in an instant, and arguing that any solution must immediately resolve it is not a serious one. There has to be a balanced approach, not just starving the beast so your buttcoins will be worth more

[Incredulity 11675]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://itep.org/federal-tax-cuts-in-the-bush-obama-and-trump-years/

Sorry I didn't include a link to back my claim of what happened in the past is what happened in the past. Taxes have been consistently cut while spending fueled by debt has grown over the same period (because taxes were cut). 

But if you'd care to give me a more cogent disagreement than quoting 7 words out of a post and saying "NYUH UH!!" that'd be neat

There have been cuts AND increases since 2000.  You just happen to omit the increases to sell your anti-capitalism/anti-USA garbage 

Edited April 29 by Incredulity

[tbone_ 14128]

I won't dispute that real estate exploded in the last 5-6 years, but a quick google search shows Austin rents are down 7.4% year over yeard, and up a net 18% since 2019.  That's 3.1% annual growth.  My math could be off, though, and the data could be wrong.  Just a snapshot.

That’s not far off. Here’s the actual numbers according to Witten Advisors.

The real affordability measure for rents though is percent of income spent on rent by apartment renters. I’ll look that up later when I have a minute.

[lucious leftfoot 126]

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

We didn't get into this debt in an instant, and arguing that any solution must immediately resolve it is not a serious one. There has to be a balanced approach, not just starving the beast so your buttcoins will be worth more

Buttcoins would stop going up if this was addressed. I see it as highly unlikely in part because of responses like yours. I say sure let’s raise tax revenue to historical highs, what about spending? You say hey hey hey let’s do a balanced approach, while avoiding the question. 

[B00M 6418]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I mean, we know wage growth is outpacing price growth, so what exactly is your point, GRUHorn?

Thank god, finally. 
 

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

The fucking workers over is tough to pin 100% on Biden unless you've got an agenda to push. But then again when haven't you had an agenda, GRU?

I agree but I missed where he was trying to pin it on Biden? The issue is that a majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so they may vote for “change” simply because they’re struggling. 

[jimmyjazz 45975]

The majority of Americans have lived paycheck to paycheck for decades.  It's probably a bit worse now, but I suspect it's also a big driver in the R->D->R->D swings we see over time.  Push back against the incumbent, because "it's the economy, stupid".

[B00M 6418]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

We didn't get into this debt in an instant, and arguing that any solution must immediately resolve it is not a serious one. There has to be a balanced approach, not just starving the beast so your buttcoins will be worth more

At this point, getting to (or mathematically close enough to) a balanced annual budget IS a balanced approach. There’s never a politically good time to do it — it just HAS to happen to protect the dollar

[B00M 6418]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The majority of Americans have lived paycheck to paycheck for decades.  It's probably a bit worse now, but I suspect it's also a big driver in the R->D->R->D swings we see over time.  Push back against the incumbent, because "it's the economy, stupid".

Yes exactly, and that shitty situation was mostly stable when inflation was very low. The relatively high inflation of the past few years hit the people that can’t see past their next paycheck the hardest. 

[StassneyHorn 6613]

It’s never been easier for the poors to learn a new skill.

[bernorange 8362]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/29/29percent-of-us-households-have-jobs-but-struggle-to-cover-basic-needs.html

Edited April 30 by bernorange

[Captainant 27680]

6 minutes ago, bernorange said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/29/29percent-of-us-households-have-jobs-but-struggle-to-cover-basic-needs.html

“ALICE is the nation’s child-care workers, home health aides and cashiers heralded during the pandemic — those working low-wage jobs, with little or no savings and one emergency from poverty,” said Stephanie Hoopes, national director at United for ALICE.

 

This can't be though, there are so many charts with a line going up!

[Incredulity 11675]

Well, dinner out has gotten ridiculous.  Just spent $14 on a side of guacamole at an independent upper mid-tier mexican restaurant.  Had to be at most 1.5 avocados with seasoning, chopped onion and diced tomatoes.  Is there an avocado shortage?

Total bill is easily 60% higher.  Ridiculous. 

[StassneyHorn 6613]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

“ALICE is the nation’s child-care workers, home health aides and cashiers heralded during the pandemic — those working low-wage jobs, with little or no savings and one emergency from poverty,” said Stephanie Hoopes, national director at United for ALICE.

 

This can't be though, there are so many charts with a line going up!

Well they should’ve gone into a lucrative industry, like selling avocados.

[Storm the Field 5295]

14 hours ago, B00M said:

The issue is that a majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so they may vote for “change” simply because they’re struggling. 

This is a totally made up stat.

It's supposed to mean "If I miss a single paycheck, I'm screwed. Not gonna make rent, car gonna get repossessed, have to decide which utility bill to pay and which to get shut off....."

When you see a stat in some news article saying "70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck," it's guaranteed bullshit. 

1. Typically, the source is basically a pull commissioned a shady debt consolidation firm or personal loan provider. Almost every article on this cites a "study" by LendingClub.Com.

2. Question wording matters, hugely. If you ask "would it hurt to miss your next paycheck?" or "do you feel like you don't have enough money left over at the end of the month?" you'll get a majority agreeing. If you specify something like the definition I provided above, the percentage drops precipitously. People that make six figures, but max out their 401K, put money into their kids college funds, have multiple car notes, take multiple vacations every year, will agree that they live paycheck to paycheck if you don't accurately define it.

3.  Only 78% of people age 25-65 are even in the labor force. You're telling me an overwhelming majority of (>90%) of people in this country who receive a paycheck are "struggling financially"? The poverty rate in America is 11%. The numbers just don't make sense if you dig even an inch deep into them. 

[Parliament 14260]

12 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Well, dinner out has gotten ridiculous.  Just spent $14 on a side of guacamole at an independent upper mid-tier mexican restaurant.  Had to be at most 1.5 avocados with seasoning, chopped onion and diced tomatoes.  Is there an avocado shortage?

Total bill is easily 60% higher.  Ridiculous. 

Sad that it’s so hard for you to feed your family.

[Incredulity 11675]

15 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Sad that it’s so hard for you to feed your family.

[jimmyjazz 45975]

@Incredulity should try using coupons.

[Incredulity 11675]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

@Incredulity should try using coupons.

Double couponing.  try to keep up.

[jimmyjazz 45975]

Maybe you can find something more consistent with your budget on one of these websites:

Groupon

restaurant.com

[Incredulity 11675]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe you can find something more consistent with your budget on one of these websites:

Groupon

restaurant.com

my goodness you are just a veritable cornucopia of money saving ideas.  deepest appreciation for sharing your frugality.

Let me guess, you cut your children's hair at home?