2021 - Is inflation finally back in the conversation?

[Brisketexan 104716]

You have a narrow run view of history, brisket. Every iteration burns down eventually. And something new takes its place. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Crypto doesn't even register. The American Empire and the Pax Americana will be one of the shortest lived in the grand scheme of things. 

I’m well aware of history - for fuck’s sake, that’s the whole point. That’s WHY the warning words about ash and ruin. But again, no worries - the burn it down crew is winning. It just doesn’t end how they think it does.
The thing is, it doesn’t have to. The shifts and transition don’t have to be utter collapse-based. But it’s what they’re cheering for and working for. They’ll get it, sooner or later. And then wonder why they’d suffering in the hell they wished for. Cool, cool.

[Mullet Free 40]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You have a narrow run view of history, brisket. Every iteration burns down eventually. And something new takes its place. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Crypto doesn't even register. The American Empire and the Pax Americana will be one of the shortest lived in the grand scheme of things. 

Exactly.

 

It’s a debt cycle. The key word there is cycle.
 

The last two countries to essentially run the global financial system were England and the Netherlands. People never lived in caves or had to use smoke signals while things changed. They’re healthy first world countries to this day. It’s almost like Brisket has been propagandized to think civilization ends if the current financial order is reshuffled. 
 

I mean look at this doomer shit…
 

32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean, maybe you’re cool with complete global economic and social collapse and the unspeakable hell that would come with it. As for me…I’d prefer to push back against it and find ways to work with the system we have.
But rest assured, I’m reasonably confident your “burn it down” crowd is winning. They are jubilant at the thought of “cleansing fire!” I’m just sane enough to also know that what follows is ash and ruin.

Classic ledge Brisket.

 

[Anastasis 23402]

If it makes you feel any better, nukes really change the game. You use to hem and haw about political rhetoric that moved the needle in that regard, when they were social media bound exchanges originated from brain damaged narcissists. Haven't heard much about those risks lately, but I am sure that you can articulate something approaching consistency if pressed on it. 

[Mullet Free 40]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The shifts and transition don’t have to be utter collapse-based.

Sure they do. Institutions that hold this kind of power only tighten their grip as  they feel they’re losing control. Works until it doesn’t. 
 

Gradually, then suddenly. And so on and so forth. 
 

This all started with debt ceiling talk. We can’t even allow a modest reduction in the pace of the growth of government outlays. Where’s the subtle transition there? There isn’t one. We’re putting the pedal to the metal baby. We’ll get away with it until we can’t. 

[Anastasis 23402]

Just now, Mullet Free said:

We’ll get away with it until we can’t. 

Pretty fucking 20-21st century america, man. 

[52-80 19104]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Kinda like when a band of troglodyte warlords overthrows a government. They all think they’re gonna be president. In reality…nobody is, and you become Somalia or some shit.

that's how you get General Butt Naked

[52-80 19104]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There’s an element of faith and “it’s worth something because this entity says it’s worth something” to any monetary system that is not a barter economy.

true

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean, maybe you’re cool with complete global economic and social collapse and the unspeakable hell that would come with it.

but not true.  the currency isnt the economy.  the people and things producing services and other things are the economy.  the currency is just means to represent value, and the country still makes things that other people want.  (and guns to take other things that other people want). 

then theres the fact that other countries own USD debt so have direct vested interest in that currency still being worth a shit.  if a shopper defaults on their Macys credit card, theres a long road before someone shows up at their door with a baseball bat.  if US starts to default on its debt, itll just be much costlier to fund deficit spending going ahead.  they'll be some 2nd order shocks but zombie apocalypse it aint

[Hefeweizen 5307]

You’re willing to roll the dice and see what happens when we go full Argentina?  It’s not good when a country defaults on its debt.  Not zombie apocalypse, no, but a 20 percent economic shock isn’t going to be pretty.  What if it’s only 15 percent?  Because guess who holds most US debt?  Ain’t foreign countries.  It’s out government.  And third is everyone’s mutual funds.  
 

You thought SVB or Lehman was scary?  2008 was a fucking pussycat compared to this tiger.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

10 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's ideological to refuse to tax our oligarchs while demanding to cut social spending. 

• The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/

 

[Parliament 14146]

It's a spec trade, nttawwt.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

It's a spec trade, nttawwt.

Bingo. Don't buy the hype that anything (currency/company/technology) is going to "change the world". Spec. Profit. Move on.

[Captainant 27481]

18 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

• The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/

Hey know a good way to reduce inflation? Use taxes to reduce the monetary supply from the top upper end where it has accumulated to a severe extent. Whats the worst that can happen? Layoffs? Those are already happening right now while they're taking in records profits!

What, will the wealth stop trickling down? 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Imagine thinking that "top upper end" wealth is sitting in a pile like Scrooge McDuck's basement.

 

[52-80 19104]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

You’re willing to roll the dice and see what happens when we go full Argentina?  It’s not good when a country defaults on its debt.  Not zombie apocalypse, no, but a 20 percent economic shock isn’t going to be pretty.  What if it’s only 15 percent?  Because guess who holds most US debt?  Ain’t foreign countries.  It’s out government.  And third is everyone’s mutual funds. 

you can shock like Argentina.  Or you can shock like Venezuela.  When the dust clears, its the productivity that settles the score.

[Mullet Free 40]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

You’re willing to roll the dice and see what happens when we go full Argentina?  It’s not good when a country defaults on its debt.  Not zombie apocalypse, no, but a 20 percent economic shock isn’t going to be pretty.  What if it’s only 15 percent?  Because guess who holds most US debt?  Ain’t foreign countries.  It’s out government.  And third is everyone’s mutual funds.  
 

You thought SVB or Lehman was scary?  2008 was a fucking pussycat compared to this tiger.

Defaulting on the debt would be dumb. We’re obviously going to go the soft default route of debt monetization and persistent, elevated inflation. 
 

The effects of the monetization and inflation on US currency/economic status are what’s worth following, but these moves have been tried before elsewhere. 

[B00M 6280]

47 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Hey know a good way to reduce inflation? Use taxes to reduce the monetary supply from the top upper end where it has accumulated to a severe extent. Whats the worst that can happen? Layoffs? Those are already happening right now while they're taking in records profits!

What, will the wealth stop trickling down? 

Are there any serious, detailed proposals to modify the tax code in the pipe? I thought the inflation reduction act had some? 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

If they fix it, it stops being a talking point for reelection. 

[Mullet Free 40]

22 minutes ago, B00M said:

Are there any serious, detailed proposals to modify the tax code in the pipe? I thought the inflation reduction act had some? 

The MMT model for fighting inflation is raising taxes to reduce money from the supply. For obvious reasons it’s unpopular and unlikely to be implemented to a level sufficient to offset the money printing 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

2 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

For obvious reasons it’s unpopular

Not obvious to one poster...

[52-80 19104]

8 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

The MMT model for fighting inflation is raising taxes to reduce money from the supply. For obvious reasons it’s unpopular and unlikely to be implemented to a level sufficient to offset the money printing 

funny thing is, mmt's spend-now-pay-later is essentially what the govt has already been doing under the supposed tax-and-spend scheme.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

funny thing is, mmt's spend-now-pay-later is essentially what the govt has already been doing under the supposed tax-and-spend scheme.

Meet the new boss...

[Bozo_Casanova 26319]

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

• The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/

 

Hey guys, the 50% of households that make <$70K and only own 1% of the wealth in our country are paying 1/8th as much as people who make more than $570K and own 1/3 of the wealth. This seems unfair!

Edited May 12, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[52-80 19104]

neither group is paying enough in taxes 🙏

[B00M 6280]

29 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

neither group is paying enough in taxes 🙏

Both groups pay too much 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

50 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

neither group is paying enough in taxes 🙏

My ROI from my tax spending sucks.

[Trey3216 15325]

13 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dear god. That you actually think that means I agree with you is staggering in its idiocy.

When it all goes to shit, true absolute shit, the ONLY things of actual value will be things that 1) help you survive (food, water, etc) and 2) things that give you power (guns, ammo, loyal troops). Crypto will be as worthless as anything else with no inherent value.
That’s the fucking neon-bright truth you crypto morons can’t grasp, even though it’s right in front of you.
You dream of just enough of a collapse to make crypto truly valuable, but you’re too dense to realize that collapses don’t just stop at the point you want.

Yep.  Food, water, and the tools to acquire and keep food and water.  

[Mullet Free 40]

Speak of the devil

Spoiler

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office hiked its estimate for the US budget deficit by $130 billion for this year, now seeing the shortfall at $1.54 trillion, and renewed its warning that the Treasury could run out of sufficient cash as soon as early next month. 

The new numbers from the CBO show an even worse fiscal outlook than the agency presented in February, and may be seized on by Republican negotiators attempting to use the current debt-limit showdown with Democrats to slash federal spending.

The CBO also on Friday reiterated that it sees a “significant risk” of a US payments default in the first two weeks of June unless lawmakers raise the federal debt ceiling. If the Treasury can stave off default until June 15, infusions of revenue could help carry the US at least to the end of July, the CBO said.

President Joe Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy are locked in a tense political fight over raising the $31.4 trillion debt limit, with Democrats demanding a “clean” increase or suspension, as Congress did for previous administrations.

The $130 billion increase in the deficit seen by the CBO for the 2023 fiscal year roughly matches the size of the cuts in discretionary spending next year that McCarthy is seeking in the debt-limit talks. McCarthy is also seeking other cuts outside the discretionary budget.

The 9% increase in the deficit estimate for the year through September is due to changes in the CBO’s model, including:

Factoring in $71 billion in higher spending related to relaxed student-loan repayment programs.

Some $33 billion in increased spending on deposit insurance accounts.

$23 billion more in interest costs due to rising interest rates.

The spending increases were mitigated somewhat by $223 billion in reduced spending for Medicare Advantage over the decade due to reimbursement rules changes.

Over the coming decade, deficits total $20 trillion and federal debt held by the public reaches $46.7 trillion in 2033 — amounting to 119% of gross domestic product, the highest in recorded US history.

The agency also projects that annual deficits will reach $2.7 trillion in 2033, or 6.9% of GDP. That compares with a 50-year average of 3.6%.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

[52-80 19104]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

My ROI from my tax spending sucks.

Yeah but lower would be Singapore, KSA, Brunei, Qatar Oman etc and all the other fuckedupkistans and i aint trying to live in any of those

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

29 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

all the other fuckedupkistans and i aint trying to live in any of those

Yeah, living in College Station would suck.

[fattyflattie 4636]

11 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Hey guys, the 50% of households that make <$70K and only own 1% of the wealth in our country are paying 1/8th as much as people who make more than $570K and own 1/3 of the wealth. This seems unfair!

One penalized for achieving.  Both have access to the same govt functions, while one group uses (takes if you will) tremendously more of those services.

No, I would not call that fair.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19152]

Translated, "Fuck you, I got mine."  It was a shit take when you said poor people should not have access to public education and it's still a shit take.

[jimmyjazz 45586]

27 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

One penalized for achieving.  Both have access to the same govt functions, while one group uses (takes if you will) tremendously more of those services.

No, I would not call that fair.  

You just refuse to get it.  The poor are taxed at every turn, and at a massive percentage of their income, as opposed to you and the rest of us.  Sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc., we all pay the same rate yet they get fucked six ways from Sunday.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Translated, "Fuck you, I got mine."  It was a shit take when you said poor people should not have access to public education and it's still a shit take.

When did I say that? I said it’s bullshit they can pay $900 for an apt up the street and have the same access to those that are paying $1500 a month in school taxes while actually committing to the community.  Why? So we can have a whataburger down the street? Fuck that, I’ll drive 20 mins to get my burger. 
 

I welcome anyone to invent the next computer or Amazon or hell even suck the right dick like Kim K. But miss me with that taxes at every turn bullshit.
 

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

as opposed to you and the rest of us.  Sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc., we all pay the same rate yet they get fucked six ways from Sunday.

  Couldn’t help but notice you left off the two largest taxes we all pay.  You know, the ones that make all the others combined look minuscule.  Wonder why? 

[jimmyjazz 45586]

12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Couldn’t help but notice you left off the two largest taxes we all pay.  You know, the ones that make all the others combined look minuscule.  Wonder why? 

What the hell are you babbling about now?  Income tax?  What else?  Have you bothered to review the data people have provided you over and over again regarding the total tax burden by income bracket in the United States?  No?  Then fuck off.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

What the hell are you babbling about now?  Income tax?  What else?  Have you bothered to review the data people have provided you over and over again regarding the total tax burden by income bracket in the United States?  No?  Then fuck off.

Yes, conveniently left off income tax.   I’ve read most all of what’s posted.  I’m sorry that $44 to register the car hits harder than it does for me, much like it hits me harder than the neurosurgeon up the street.   Funny, all 3 of us use the same roads. And we all three only get one vote each.  All three of us provided the same local education options.  Same police, same fire, same EMS.  Same exact everything, except contribution, of course. 
 

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45586]

11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes, conveniently left off income tax.   I’ve read most all of what’s posted.  I’m sorry that $44 to register the car hits harder than it does for me, much like it hits me harder than the neurosurgeon up the street.   Funny, all 3 of us use the same roads. And we all three only get one vote each.  All three of us provided the same local education options.  Same police, same fire, same EMS.  Same exact everything, except contribution, of course. 

So you think everyone should contribute the same DOLLAR amount?  I mean, that takes you from merely unempathetic to total shitheel.  Decorum prevents me from saying anything else.  Use your imagination.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

When did I say that? I said it’s bullshit they can pay $900 for an apt up the street and have the same access to those that are paying $1500 a month in school taxes while actually committing to the community.  Why? So we can have a whataburger down the street? Fuck that, I’ll drive 20 mins to get my burger. 
 

I welcome anyone to invent the next computer or Amazon or hell even suck the right dick like Kim K. But miss me with that taxes at every turn bullshit.
 

  Couldn’t help but notice you left off the two largest taxes we all pay.  You know, the ones that make all the others combined look minuscule.  Wonder why? 

Meh, looking at it from a perspective of who or who doesn't pay their fair share might make you feel better personally, but it's much more practical to look at it from a holistic perspective of how it works out for society. I'm pretty libertarian philosophically, but I recognize that that isn't exactly how the world works realistically. There are plenty of examples of where social programs (roads, education, etc.) Actually make it easier for everybody to live and succeed, and those social programs are worth pursuing both because they help my fellow Americans and they help me to be able to make more money.

Poor folks have enough trouble making enough money to keep food on the table for their families, and, yes, some of that is due to the fact that they make poor decisions. Doing our best to educate them goes a long way towards making society as whole more successful. From a cynical point of view, we at the very least need people capable of taking our orders correctly at whataburger and giving the correct change. Covering a bit of extra cost for that education pays dividends.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

So you think everyone should contribute the same DOLLAR amount?  I mean, that takes you from merely unempathetic to total shitheel.  Decorum prevents me from saying anything else.  Use your imagination.

No, of course not. Pick a percentage, 15-35 and go.  You’re an American?  Cool, nice to meet you. Here’s your 30%.  Oh, Mr Bezos, still an American? Cool, you shitheel, here’s your bill for 30%*.   Hey Kim, your ass is atrocious, here’s your 30% bill for the year   

I understand how the oligarch wealthy are able to weasel out of the taxes.  Fuck them, someone really smart can figure out a way for them to pay their 30%   

[jimmyjazz 45586]

Flat taxers are the intellectual equivalent of flat earthers.

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There are plenty of examples of where social programs (roads, education, etc.) Actually make it easier for everybody to live and succeed, and those social programs are worth pursuing both because they help my fellow Americans and they help me to be able to make more money.

Agree 100%. Let’s all contribute to it. I know Jimmie, the poor guy still buys 10gal of gas a week.   

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Doing our best to educate them goes a long way towards making society as whole more successful. From a cynical point of view, we at the very least need people capable of taking our orders correctly at whataburger and giving the correct change. Covering a bit of extra cost for that education pays dividends.

I don’t disagree, but at what cost?  You know who cares about their community?  It’s the people who invest deep 6, into 7 figures into their houses and places of business. The transients are there for the advantages built by others. Well FF, they are paying property tax.  Fuck outta here.  Would you like to wager a guess if it’s the rooted children or the transient children slowing down the lessons in our school?  Try and figure out the cost of that. 

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Flat taxers are the intellectual equivalent of flat earthers.

What does that make people who can’t even make a living in America?  

[jimmyjazz 45586]

19 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

What does that make people who can’t even make a living in America?  

Poor?

[fattyflattie 4636]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Poor?

Pretty sure even the flat earthers have figured out how to not be poor here.  Its America, a TikToc account can make you worth 10’s of millions.  

[Captainant 27481]

6 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I understand how the oligarch wealthy are able to weasel out of the taxes.  Fuck them, someone really smart can figure out a way for them to pay their 30%   

The irony of this sentence is that whatever is proposed, you'll find a reason to passionately oppose it. We've seen this same "aw shucks SOMEBODY could figure it out, but imma be a crab in a bucket till then" strategy from you regarding gun control too. 

Because to you, paying taxes isn't contributing to society, it's a punitive punishment and a signal that the GUBMIT is taking YUR MUNIES!

[fatty]HAY! WHYD THAT POOR FUCK WORKING 3 MINIMUM WAGE JOBS ONLY PAY $5 IN TAXES BUT HE CAN USE THE SAME WATER MAINS AND SCHOOLS AS ME??? RAAARRREGGABABLBLBLBLBL![/flatty]

[Bozo_Casanova 26319]

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Both have access to the same govt functions

That’s rich

[Mullet Free 40]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Poor?

 

[Guest]

Paying taxes is 'contributing to society' yet these fuckers don't send more than what is due.

Weird AF, huh???

[fattyflattie 4636]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Paying taxes is 'contributing to society' yet these fuckers don't send more than what is due.

Weird AF, huh???

My understanding is they are more than welcome to. Yet…

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That’s rich

care to elaborate?  If it’s the same Bezos uses roads for his business more than others, I’ve already heard it.   Tell me the difference in govt services provided and used by the person making 20k and the guy making 500k.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19152]

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Pretty sure even the flat earthers have figured out how to not be poor here.  Its America, a TikToc account can make you worth 10’s of millions.  

Are you worth 10’s of millions?  What’s the name of your TikToc channel?