DACA, immigration reform whatever

[Aqua Buddha 14463]

[hobbes2702 12745]

12 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Yes...obviously.  I think you know me well enough to make that declaration.  🙄

FTR...I have never confessed to be anything more than a poor Christian.  To do otherwise might lead you to believe that I don't need salvation through Jesus Christ.  And IMHO anyone that tells you what a great Christian they are typically isn't a very good one at all. 

That said, we must have law and order.  We cannot take in the 4 billion people who would no doubt love to come here.

 

Sounds a lot like what Jesus would say in this situation. Maybe you should seek some salvation.

[Ragnarok 103]

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen hit back on Sunday against “irresponsible and unproductive” misreporting by the media on the Trump administration’s border policies.

“This misreporting by Members, press & advocacy groups must stop,” tweeted Nielsen. “It is irresponsible and unproductive. As I have said many times before, if you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry.

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry,” she continued. “For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between ‘family’ members, or if the adult has broken a law.”

[retread 2951]

Lots of furrowed brows, but no Rs want to sign on the bill protecting the children?

Quote

But Democrats have more or less accepted the challenge anyway, and have proposed specific legislation to prevent the Republican president from keeping his current policy in place. Vox highlighted the Senate Dems’ effort to pass the “Keep Families Together Act,” which was introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.).

As of this minute, the proposal has 48 co-sponsors, which includes literally every member of the Senate Democratic conference except West Virginia’s Joe Manchin.

So what’s the hold up? As Feinstein noted yesterday, “We’re making progress, but we still need Republicans to join.”

For all the talk today about Republican “discomfort” and “concern” over the president’s policy, no GOP senators have endorsed legislation that would require Trump to stop doing this – or proposed rival legislation of their own.

 

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/so-far-no-republicans-endorse-the-dems-keep-families-together-act

[kevwun 15540]

The Nazis said Kristallnacht was the Jews fault also.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen hit back on Sunday against “irresponsible and unproductive” misreporting by the media on the Trump administration’s border policies.

“This misreporting by Members, press & advocacy groups must stop,” tweeted Nielsen. “It is irresponsible and unproductive. As I have said many times before, if you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry.

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry,” she continued. “For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between ‘family’ members, or if the adult has broken a law.”

Because they aren't seeking asylum until they get caught jumping the border.  If they were seeking asylum, they would do it at any embassy or port of entry.  They are attempting to sneak in and make it to a sanctuary city so they can stay forever.  They only claim asylum once they get caught.

[Js1 84939]

10 minutes ago, retread said:

Lots of furrowed brows, but no Rs want to sign on the bill protecting the children?

 

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/so-far-no-republicans-endorse-the-dems-keep-families-together-act

49. Manchin signed on too. I see "moderates" Murkowski, Collins, McCain, Flake, Corker etc. are nowhere to be found.

[Chuckie Finster 22571]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Because they aren't seeking asylum until they get caught jumping the border.  If they were seeking asylum, they would do it at any embassy or port of entry.  They are attempting to sneak in and make it to a sanctuary city so they can stay forever.  They only claim asylum once they get caught.

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/16/immigration-border-asylum-central-america/

U.S. CUSTOMS AND Border Protection agents are systematically violating U.S. and international law by blocking immigrants at international ports of entry on the southern border from entering the country so they can claim asylum. 

By blocking asylum-seekers from crossing legally, CBP is pressuring them to cross illegally. Garcia believes that this new practice gives the government an excuse to split up even more families.

[kevwun 15540]

Flake does a lot of talking and never actually bothers to do what is right.

[Js1 84939]

Just now, kevwun said:

Flake does a lot of talking and never actually bothers to do what is right.

That's called being complicit.

I don't care what a man says. I care what he DOES. And Flake does nothing except flap his gums.

[Brisketexan 104215]

15 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen hit back on Sunday against “irresponsible and unproductive” misreporting by the media on the Trump administration’s border policies.

“This misreporting by Members, press & advocacy groups must stop,” tweeted Nielsen. “It is irresponsible and unproductive. As I have said many times before, if you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry.

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry,” she continued. “For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between ‘family’ members, or if the adult has broken a law.”

 

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Because they aren't seeking asylum until they get caught jumping the border.  If they were seeking asylum, they would do it at any embassy or port of entry.  They are attempting to sneak in and make it to a sanctuary city so they can stay forever.  They only claim asylum once they get caught.

See Chuckie's post above (he beat me to the quote).  And we could cite dozens of other outlets as well - this isn't exactly a secret.

"f you are seeking asylum for your family, there is no reason to break the law and illegally cross between ports of entry." Well, there kinda is, when we don't allow you to cross -- legally, and as contemplated by our existing asylum process -- at a port of entry.  The lies are just maddening here.

[Captainant 27239]

14 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

You are not breaking the law by seeking asylum at a port of entry,” she continued. “For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between ‘family’ members, or if the adult has broken a law.”

Issue is, they're denying asylum under fucking absurd pretenses. Women have been denied for "providing material support to terrorists" when in fact they were pressed into working for them for fear of physical harm. The trump admin is also simultaneously saying MS13 is the gravest threat possible to the US and denying people asylum from MS13. They're finding convenient ways to label these people as criminals and since they're brown, the GOP base just goes with it.

[Skyline 325]

4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/16/immigration-border-asylum-central-america/

U.S. CUSTOMS AND Border Protection agents are systematically violating U.S. and international law by blocking immigrants at international ports of entry on the southern border from entering the country so they can claim asylum. 

By blocking asylum-seekers from crossing legally, CBP is pressuring them to cross illegally. Garcia believes that this new practice gives the government an excuse to split up even more families.

I mentioned this in the Trump thread but when it comes to immigrants, all of a sudden conservatives are skeptical. It says a lot that when they hear about immigrants wanting asylum, they never give immigrants the benefit of the doubt. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13525]

Think I trust Beto's word over Kirstergerdenjern. 

[Pig Bellmont 8662]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

So you're saying you'd be fine with a cop pulling over drunk parents and packing Mom dad and their 2 kids off to a county holding cell while mom and dad await trial?

That’s not at all what I said or analogous to criminally charging everyone crossing the border, even asylum seekers, resulting in children being ripped from their parents by the thousands. Fuck you and fuck your bullshit rationalizations. Congrats tho - you can report to your Russian troll farm that you really pwned some libs. Meanwhile infants and toddlers are kept in detention centers and little or no effort is made by the government to reunite the families when the parents are released. The government can’t even accurately account for every separated child. It’s unconstitutional, inhumane, and you are a shit person. 

[kevwun 15540]

Ripped is much too harsh.  Gently kidnapped is the preferred nomenclature.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

Wait? another complex issue with a ton of misinformation and selective admission of facts based on which side people "root for"? Oh please tell me more! To the twitter and facebook machines we shall go! 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8662]

1 minute ago, JimmyHoffa said:

Wait? another complex issue with a ton of misinformation and selective admission of facts based on which side people "root for"? Oh please tell me more! To the twitter and facebook machines we shall go! 

 

Oh please “both sides” this issue. You only are exposing yourself as ignorant or willfully cruel. 

[4th&Five 41435]

Why would a Republican sign onto it?

 

[Equinox 95]

40 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The Nazis said Kristallnacht was the Jews fault also.

Get back to me when the USA starts gassing Guatemalan and Honduran immigrants at the border. Until then, your hyperbole is doing nothing to help the situation.

[Brisketexan 104215]

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Why would a Republican sign onto it?

 

And their isolation only entrenches them more.

We will never, ever change the GOP's mind.  About anything.  They are 100% committed to Trumpism, whatever that happens to be at the moment.  Whatever Trump supports, they support.  Period, full-stop, forever and ever amen.  They cannot be argued with, reasoned with, presented facts and evidence, etc.  It's a fool's errand to even try.

[Brisketexan 104215]

Just now, Equinox said:

Get back to me when the USA starts gassing Guatemalan and Honduran immigrants at the border. Until then, your hyperbole is doing nothing to help the situation.

I love how we keep raising the bar on what constitutes cruelty and inhumanity.

Being that the top level isn't just gassing them, it's a program to EXTERMINATE them.  So, as long as whatever we do doesn't have as its goal actual extermination of an entire people, we're all good.  Whew.  Thank goodness we avoided THAT moral conundrum.

[scottsins 1949]

Yes...obviously.  I think you know me well enough to make that declaration. 
FTR...I have never confessed to be anything more than a poor Christian.  To do otherwise might lead you to believe that I don't need salvation through Jesus Christ.  And IMHO anyone that tells you what a great Christian they are typically isn't a very good one at all. 
That said, we must have law and order.  We cannot take in the 4 billion people who would no doubt love to come here.
 

Re: 4B people who “would no doubt love to come here”, WTF does that have to do with the actual issue being discussed? Is this thread a debate with one side advocating truly open borders? Cite, please.

[hobbes2702 12745]

1 minute ago, Equinox said:

Get back to me when the USA starts gassing Guatemalan and Honduran immigrants at the border. Until then, your hyperbole is doing nothing to help the situation.

Was gassing people the start of the holocaust? Or were there steps taken prior to normalize the demonization of a group of people?

[Anastasis 23306]

The GOP was stupid for not getting behind Bush's crack at reform. Instead of being the hero for many immigrants, they are firmly entrenching themselves as the arch-enemy of not only immigration, but common human decency in immigration policy. 

[kevwun 15540]

4 minutes ago, Equinox said:

Get back to me when the USA starts gassing Guatemalan and Honduran immigrants at the border. Until then, your hyperbole is doing nothing to help the situation.

It stopped being hyperbole when kids started getting locked up in an old Walmart and the President tries to be best friends with every dictator he meets.

Edited June 18, 2018 by kevwun

[RDCanecutter 26176]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I love how we keep raising the bar on what constitutes cruelty and inhumanity.

Being that the top level isn't just gassing them, it's a program to EXTERMINATE them.  So, as long as whatever we do doesn't have as its goal actual extermination of an entire people, we're all good.  Whew.  Thank goodness we avoided THAT moral conundrum.

Y'know, Bull Conner had those dogs and firehoses, but he never actually gassed anybody.

[Equinox 95]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Was gassing people the start of the holocaust? Or were there steps taken prior to normalize the demonization of a group of people?

Dude. Be serious. The more your team cries "nazi" the more it sounds like you're crying "wolf". When you continually marginalize the Holocaust, eventually, nobody will listen.

[Equinox 95]

2 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Y'know, Bull Conner had those dogs and firehoses, but he never actually gassed anybody.

He was a democrat, too.

[Brisketexan 104215]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

The GOP was stupid for not getting behind Bush's crack at reform. Instead of being the hero for many immigrants, they are firmly entrenching themselves as the arch-enemy of not only immigration, but common human decency in immigration policy. 

I don't care for you very much these days.

But this post is 100% correct.  W was dead-on target, striking a good balance of policy and human decency.  That it failed so completely is one of our great national failures (and, to go FULL Anastasis, the REASON it failed was indeed "both sides" -- the strengthening nativist movement in the GOP would have none of it, and the Dems didn't think it went far enough -- rendering it DOA).

I have long thought our policy was broken, and have long favored common sense ways to fix it.  I still don't see much along those lines coming from anyone.  But these days, I see inhuman cruelty and an opposition to basic human decency coming from only one camp.   Makes picking sides much easier nowadays.

[kevwun 15540]

It started with dehumanizing the Jews and and blaming society's ills on them.  Then beating up the odd Jew on the street was fine.  Then some broken glass and a few dozen murders. Demonizing an entire people for political gain is how the entire tragedy started.

Edited June 18, 2018 by kevwun

[hobbes2702 12745]

Just now, Equinox said:

Dude. Be serious. The more your team cries "nazi" the more it sounds like you're crying "wolf". When you continually marginalize the Holocaust, eventually, nobody will listen.

Dude. Be smarter. I don’t have a team. The more your team tries to rationalize abject indecency the closer we get to fascism. People like you are normalizing behavior that leads to things like the holocaust. Maybe we should prevent things like the holocaust from happening rather than having to hope we can stop it.

Fuck off cunt

[Incredulity 11400]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't care for you very much these days.

But this post is 100% correct.  W was dead-on target, striking a good balance of policy and human decency.  That it failed so completely is one of our great national failures (and, to go FULL Anastasis, the REASON it failed was indeed "both sides" -- the strengthening nativist movement in the GOP would have none of it, and the Dems didn't think it went far enough -- rendering it DOA).

I have long thought our policy was broken, and have long favored common sense ways to fix it.  I still don't see much along those lines coming from anyone.  But these days, I see inhuman cruelty and an opposition to basic human decency coming from only one camp.   Makes picking sides much easier nowadays.

 

 

[Equinox 95]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Dude. Be smarter. I don’t have a team. The more your team tries to rationalize abject indecency the closer we get to fascism. People like you are normalizing behavior that leads to things like the holocaust. Maybe we should prevent things like the holocaust from happening rather than having to hope we can stop it.

Fuck off cunt

Dude. be honest. Quit using this latest issue that is spoon-fed to you by CNN etc. to try to gin up outrage. Maybe we should try to teach these immigrants to follow the proper procedures and then they can come in legally and be productive citizens. Teaching them to use their children to break the law right off the bat sends a terrible message.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Equinox

[Brisketexan 104215]

2 minutes ago, Equinox said:

Dude. Be serious. The more your team cries "nazi" the more it sounds like you're crying "wolf". When you continually marginalize the Holocaust, eventually, nobody will listen.

Fires don't emerge as complete conflagrations.  They START.  The fire is starting.  It is spreading.  If you wait until it's out of control, you've waited too long.

Next time you have a small kitchen fire, I urge you to wait until it engulfs and destroys your house before you take steps to stop it in its tracks, because the more you cry "fire"  when your kitchen is in flames, the more nobody will listen.

1 minute ago, Equinox said:

He was a democrat, too.

Southern strategy.  Discussed ad infinitum in the world of rational thought.  So of course you ignore it.  Keep hanging your hat on the letter next to the name and not the current affiliation of such folks.

Only one party supports terrorizing families for political gain these days.  Literally EVERY other demographic is against it.  But stay committed to your path.  Let's see how that works out for you.

By the way, the kitchen is on fire. You might want to do something about that.

[Foosters 17688]

Just now, Equinox said:

Dude. be honest. Quit usinng this latest issue that is fed to you by CNN etc. to try to gin up outrage. Maybe we should try to teach these immigrants to follow the proper procedures and then they can come in legally and be productive citizens. Teaching them to use their children to break the law right off the bat sends a terrible message.

 

This is rich.  

[Brisketexan 104215]

Just now, Equinox said:

Maybe we should try to teach these immigrants to follow the proper procedures and then they can come in legally and be productive citizens. Teaching them to use their children to break the law right off the bat sends a terrible message.

Families are supposed to present themselves at a port of entry to seek asylum.

They are doing so.

They are being turned away.

So they are crossing outside a port of entry, then immediately presenting themselves for asylum claims, as contemplated by international law.

Keep digging, man.  Keep digging.

[Texas73 419]

48 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Because they aren't seeking asylum until they get caught jumping the border.  If they were seeking asylum, they would do it at any embassy or port of entry.  They are attempting to sneak in and make it to a sanctuary city so they can stay forever.  They only claim asylum once they get caught.

Those entering at a port of entry are being sent away so yes they are entering illegally. Try again.

[Equinox 95]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

the world of rational thought. 

A world that is foreign to you. But thanks for climbing down from the ledge long enough to post your worthless thought.

[Equinox 95]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Families are supposed to present themselves at a port of entry to seek asylum.

They are doing so.

They are being turned away.

So they are crossing outside a port of entry, then immediately presenting themselves for asylum claims, as contemplated by international law.

Keep digging, man.  Keep digging.

Look kiddo, if I want CNN's talking points, I'll just turn on the TV. Go back to your ledge.

[Brisketexan 104215]

1 minute ago, Equinox said:

A world that is foreign to you. But thanks for climbing down from the ledge long enough to post your worthless thought.

Facts.  I know you didn't like being presented with them, but we're going to do so.  Relentlessly, you lying piece of shit.

Your kitchen is on fire, dumbass.  What are you going to do?

[wildcat09 29143]

12 minutes ago, Equinox said:

Get back to me when the USA starts gassing Guatemalan and Honduran immigrants at the border. Until then, your hyperbole is doing nothing to help the situation.

It'll be too late by then. 

[Equinox 95]

1 minute ago, Texas73 said:

Those entering at a port of entry are being sent away so yes they are entering illegally. Try again.

Why didn't they go to their local US Embassy to seek asylum?

[Foosters 17688]

Just now, Equinox said:

Look kiddo, if I want CNN's talking points, I'll just turn on the TV. Go back to your ledge.

I listened to an interview on the radio this weekend, where the reporter literally watched this happen. He reported on it while it was happening. He was making this up? Again, your position is that this is all made up by the media? I hope someday your child is forcefully ripped from your arms.  

[Brisketexan 104215]

Just now, Equinox said:

Look kiddo, if I want CNN's talking points, I'll just turn on the TV. Go back to your ledge.

Fucking GOLD.

You literally have an AVERSION -- self-declared AVERSION -- to facts.  You are perfect.  Please continue to pants yourself.

Remember, we're laughing AT you, not with you.

[Equinox 95]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Facts.  I know you didn't like being presented with them, but we're going to do so.  Relentlessly, you lying piece of shit.

Your kitchen is on fire, dumbass.  What are you going to do?

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. 

Don't jump Brisket!

[Equinox 95]

Just now, Foosters said:

I listened to an interview on the radio this weekend, where the reporter literally watched this happen. He reported on it while it was happening. He was making this up? Again, your position is that this is all made up by the media? I hope someday your child is forcefully ripped from your arms.  

Well, if I break the law that could happen.  Except he's a grown man himself, so...

[Brisketexan 104215]

Just now, Equinox said:

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. 

Don't jump Brisket!

Counter my facts then.  There are links on this very thread to exactly what I described actually happening.  Like, real thing that is happening, in the real world.  If you have a factual refutation, present it.

Otherwise, you're just another lying little Trumpkin bitch.

But we already know that.  Your pants are around your ankles, dude.  And everyone's laughing at you.

[Texas73 419]

1 minute ago, Equinox said:

Why didn't they go to their local US Embassy to seek asylum?

 I don't know. 

Why are they being sent way when they legally go to a port of entry? TIA

[Equinox 95]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

  Your pants are around your ankles, dude.  And everyone's laughing at you.

You must have used this one at least 1,000 times on the old Shag. You need to get some new material.