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DACA, immigration reform whatever

hayden_horn

By hayden_horn
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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19444

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Equinox said:

This will be old forgotten news soon, and then you'll have to find something else to be outraged about. 

Meanwhile the fallout from the IG report is going to be coming to a head, and the Meuller investigation will be toast.

You better hope the president gets a law to sign.

Also, the IG report does not work in favor of Trump. Just the opposite. 

And Mueller isn't going anywhere.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18208

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So, simple solution. Allow catch and release for families, but attach a felony charge if they fail to show up for their court hearing with a mandatory jail sentence. 

Tough but fair. Both sides will hate it, that’s why we should do it. 

I have no problem with this.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19444

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So, simple solution. Allow catch and release for families, but attach a felony charge if they fail to show up for their court hearing with a mandatory jail sentence. 

Tough but fair. Both sides will hate it, that’s why we should do it. 

So you'd rather pay to detain them in an American jail if they fail to show up instead of deporting them in absentia like they do now?

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
Just now, zork said:

why not release on the other side of the border till their court date?(families intact and the US is under no responsibility for any of their needs)

I'm no immigration law expert, but I'm guessing that would be a due process violation.  I don't see how the government can remove someone from the country without it. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So, simple solution. Allow catch and release for families, but attach a felony charge if they fail to show up for their court hearing with a mandatory jail sentence. 

Tough but fair. Both sides will hate it, that’s why we should do it. 

Maybe you should call up dear leader and pitch him your idea. 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9927

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So you'd rather pay to detain them in an American jail if they fail to show up instead of deporting them in absentia like they do now?

Well the parents are being detained now and the kids are at Walmart. We are already paying for detaining them. 

If they show up for their court hearing there is no detainment at all. 

Strawman fail. Your one liner failed you again Hugo 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

I'm no immigration law expert, but I'm guessing that would be a due process violation.  I don't see how the government can remove someone from the country without it. 

gonna have to hire more judges for (near)immediate decisions due to the overflow at the moment.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19444

Posted
Posted
Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

Well the parents are being detained now and the kids are at Walmart. We are already paying for detaining them. 

Mans if they show up for their court hearing there is no detainment at all. 

Strawman fail. Your one liner failed you again Hugo 

If they miss a court date, they are deported in absentia. That means if they are apprehended they are deported unless there are exceptional circumstances. You'd rather spend money to put them in an American jail on a felony charge instead of deporting them? 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18208

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So no solutions. Only Trump outrage. At least you are finally being honest and not pretending you give a shit about the families. 

Do your solution. I'm fine with. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense big picture, and I'm not convinced it solves whatever problem you think exists, but it does end the current nonsense. So do it. Please. I'm serious. Tell Trump. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So no solutions. Only Trump outrage. At least you are finally being honest and not pretending you give a shit about the families. 

Trump doesn’t want solutions. He wants ratings and validation due to his narcissistic personality disorder. Why should I bother proposing solutions he will simply ignore because it doesn’t rile up his idiotic base such as persons like yourself?

i do support the democratic bill abolishing trumps current practice of separating families. Do you? 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TornACL said:

For someone who allegedly travels as much as he does to have no global context or experience through which to view this issue, I'd say that he wasted his money on all those travels...even if he did get them all at a great price.

1. There’s no “allegedly” about it. 

2. WTF does global context or experience have to do with bi-partisan passed U.S. Law? Are we fucking gassing people for illegally crossing the border or violating the Geneva Convention? Ive started repeatedly that the tactics are shitty. JFC...

Edited by Spankytoes
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NIUHuskies

NIUHuskies 505

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

1. There’s no “allegedly” about it. 

2. WTF does global context or experience have to do with bi-partisan passed U.S. Law? Are we fucking gassing people for illegally crossing the border or violating the Geneva Convention? Ive started repeatedly that the tactics are shitty. JFC...

I would say it violates this set of guidelines:

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18208

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

1. There’s no “allegedly” about it. 

2. WTF does global context or experience have to do with bi-partisan passed U.S. Law? Are we fucking gassing people for illegally crossing the border or violating the Geneva Convention? Ive started repeatedly that the tactics are shitty. JFC...

You've never explained what could possibly be wrong with setting up family facilities rather than separate detention or why you think it would cost more than detaining everybody separately as currently done. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You've never explained what could possibly be wrong with setting up family facilities rather than separate detention or why you think it would cost more than detaining everybody separately as currently done. 

I have, albeit, not directly to you. There has to be a deterrent for stoping the behavior. If having your family separated is the consequence for breaking a clear law that has been blatantly ignored for decades, as abhorrent as it is, then maybe that’s what needs to be done. I’d go a step further and send the bill to the countries or origin for the operational costs. 

I’m not sure why this is so hard to grasp. If someone breaks into your house, and steals your money, you call the cops. If they are caught, they go to jail. If they are convicted, they go to prison. We don’t try to skirt the law because we’re taking mommy and daddy away from their kids. The parents have to take 100% of the responsibility for the crime that they committed. And guess what? Mommy and daddy don’t get to be housed together in jail either. Why this changes because illegal immigration is a “victim-less crime” baffles me.

Edited by Spankytoes
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I have, albeit, not directly to you. There has to be a deterrent for stoping the behavior. If having your family separated is the consequence for breaking a clear law that has been blatantly ignored for decades, as abhorrent as it is, then maybe that’s what needs to be done. I’d go a step further and send the bill to the countries or origin for the operational costs. 

I’m not sure why this is so hard to grasp. If someone breaks into your house, and steals your money, you call the cops. If they are caught, they go to jail. If they are convicted, they go to prison. We don’t try to skirt the law because we’re taking mommy and daddy away from their kids. The parents have to take 100% of the responsibility for the crime that they committed. Why this changes because illegal immigration is a “victim-less crime” baffles me.

Ah, the old were just doing what has to be done argument. Who cares if it’s immoral and makes us on the same level as the nazis. I was just following orders and doing what had to be done. 

Good talk Russ. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19444

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

 

Thanks. Makes it easier to ignore your points.

Here you go: https://www.usa.gov/immigration-and-citizenship

Explain go me how they aren’t breaking the law first and I’ll list my citations for you.

Oooooooooh, a misdemeanor! And only if you cross illegally.

Seeking asylum is not a crime.

Edited by David Dennison
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18208

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I have, albeit, not directly to you. There has to be a deterrent for stoping the behavior. If having your family separated is the consequence for breaking a clear law that has been blatantly ignored for decades, as abhorrent as it is, then maybe that’s what needs to be done. I’d go a step further and send the bill to the countries or origin for the operational costs. 

I’m not sure why this is so hard to grasp. If someone breaks into your house, and steals your money, you call the cops. If they are caught, they go to jail. If they are convicted, they go to prison. We don’t try to skirt the law because we’re taking mommy and daddy away from their kids. The parents have to take 100% of the responsibility for the crime that they committed. Why this changes because illegal immigration is a “victim-less crime” baffles me.

That doesn't really answer anything. I thought you agreed this was bad? Crimes have different level of punishments for a reason. I simply disagree with the notion that an asylum seeker should be severely punished for pursuing a legal method, if not the preferred method, for seeking asylum. And I'll always disagree with a punishment that leverages the misery of children to punish adults. That is fucking bullshit and is illegal in this country.  And quite frankly it is disgusting that you're willing to consider it. Seriously disgusting.  If you want punishment (which, why do we want to punish people for this?), there a million other ways to do it that aren't in-humane. I mean, fucking gassing people is punishment too, but I'd hope you'd at least think THAT crosses a line. 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Ah, the old were just doing what has to be done argument. Who cares if it’s immoral and makes us on the same level as the nazis. I was just following orders and doing what had to be done. 

Good talk Russ. 

Hyperbole is fun

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted

So which is it. Is it (1) trump isn’t separating families that’s just a fake news MSM lie, (2) trump is separating families but he has to because of Obama laws and because, but Obama, (3) trump is separating families but its the same thing Obama did so it may be vile, so but Obama, (4) trump is separating families because the Bible says he has to so therefore its simply God’s will and therefore a-ok?

I’m thoroughly confused as to which position trump and the trumpkins are taking on this matter. Perhaps the trolls on this message board can make things a little more clearer as to which position they are trying to justify and take. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If they miss a court date, they are deported in absentia. That means if they are apprehended they are deported unless there are exceptional circumstances. You'd rather spend money to put them in an American jail on a felony charge instead of deporting them? 

What percentage are actually caught and deported?

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Ragnarok

Ragnarok 103

Posted
Posted

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/border-patrol-official-on-zero-tolerance-we-created-this-situation-by-not-doing-anything/

“I know this is complicated for you and your team, but what people are talking about is cruel and inhuman behavior, is how it’s perceived,” said King. “Do you actually agree with this policy?”

“I do agree that we have to do something. We created this situation by not doing anything,” Padilla said. “So what happened with zero tolerance is, we were exempting a population from the law. And what happens when you do that, it creates a draw for a certain group of people that rises to trends that become a crisis.”

“I’m going to give you an example: Because we were releasing family units, May 2, just last month, we had a full-blown MS-13 (gang member) accompanied by his one-year-old child. He thought he was going get released into the community; that was not the case.”

Good interview. It did not go as Gayle King planned.

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That doesn't really answer anything. I thought you agreed this was bad? Crimes have different level of punishments for a reason. I simply disagree with the notion that an asylum seeker should be severely punished for pursuing a legal method, if not the preferred method, for seeking asylum. And I'll always disagree with a punishment that leverages the misery of children to punish adults. That is fucking bullshit and is illegal in this country.  And quite frankly it is disgusting that you're willing to consider it. Seriously disgusting.  If you want punishment (which, why do we want to punish people for this?), there a million other ways to do it that aren't in-humane. I mean, fucking gassing people is punishment too, but I'd hope you'd at least think THAT crosses a line. 

It’s hard to answer you directly when your points are so offbase that we’re now daisychaining separating families for breaking a clear law with clearly stated consequences to gassing people to exterminate a race simply because we don’t like them. That’s quite a leap of logic there. You are free to think anything you want about my POV. That doesn’t concern me in the slightest. 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Insofar as it's misdemeanor, yes, like jaywalking. But also not like jaywalking.

Except it’s not a misdemeanor, it’s a felony, and jaywalking is governed on the city level, not Federal like Immigration is. Why, I’d downright say it’s like comparing Blinn College’s football program to Alabama’s, except you’re serious.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Well, yeah. Obviously I do. What’s not fun about being a heartless Nazi? This is totally the same thing.

Yeah then maybe you should start spending some time condemning heartless and inhuman policies instead of excusing them with your issues and disagreements about immigration policies. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19444

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Except it’s not a misdemeanor, it’s a felony, and jaywalking is governed on the city level, not Federal like Immigration is. Why, I’d downright say it’s like comparing Blinn College’s football program to Alabama’s, except you’re serious.

Illegal entry is a misdemeanor.

 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, seven said:

Illegal entry is not a felony 

 

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Illegal entry is a misdemeanor.

 

Correct. Your first time. What would you guess the percentage of those caught would show up on the repeat-offender’s pie chart? 

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