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DACA, immigration reform whatever

hayden_horn

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89727

Posted
Posted

When the GOP gets the Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics on the same page, it’s probably not good for the GOP. 

Somebody asked, here’s the resolution the Southern Baptists passed last week. 

Quote

WHEREAS, Every man, woman, and child from every language, race, and nation is a special creation of God, made in His own image (Genesis 1:26–27); and

WHEREAS, Longings to protect one’s family from warfare, violence, disease, extreme poverty, and other destitute conditions are universal, driving millions of people to leave their homelands to seek a better life for themselves, their children, and their grandchildren; and

WHEREAS, God commands His people to treat immigrants with the same respect and dignity as those native born (Leviticus 19:33–34; Jeremiah 7:5–7; Ezekiel 47:22; Zechariah 7:9–10); and

WHEREAS, Scripture is clear on the believer’s hospitality towards immigrants, stating that meeting the material needs of “strangers” is tantamount to serving the Lord Jesus Himself (Matthew 25:35–40; Hebrews 13:2); and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists affirm the value of the family, stating in The Baptist Faith and Message that “God has ordained the family as the foundational institution of human society” (Article XVIII), and Scripture makes clear that parents are uniquely responsible to raise their children “in the training and instruction of the Lord” (Ephesians 6:4); and

WHEREAS, Untold numbers of men and women seeking to enter the United States legally, desiring to become good citizens of our country, often languish at the borders due to the complexity of our immigration system; and

WHEREAS, In its 2011 resolution “On Immigration and The Gospel,” messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention asked our governing authorities to prioritize efforts to secure the borders and to hold businesses accountable for hiring practices as they relate to immigration status; and

WHEREAS, In that same resolution, Southern Baptist Convention messengers also asked our governing authorities to implement, with the borders secured, a just and compassionate path to legal status, with appropriate restitutionary measures, for those undocumented immigrants already living in our country; and 

WHEREAS, At the time, Southern Baptist Convention messengers made clear that the wording of the resolution was not to be construed as support for amnesty for any undocumented immigrant living in violation of the law of the land; and

WHEREAS, After seven years of continued policy gridlock, there have been no substantive changes in the immigration system that would make it more just, humane, efficient, and orderly; now, therefore, be it 

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Dallas, Texas, June 12–13, 2018, affirm the value and dignity of immigrants, regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, culture, national origin, or legal status; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we desire to see immigration reform include an emphasis on securing our borders and providing a pathway to legal status with appropriate restitutionary measures, maintaining the priority of family unity, resulting in an efficient immigration system that honors the value and dignity of those seeking a better life for themselves and their families; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we declare that any form of nativism, mistreatment, or exploitation is inconsistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage all elected officials, especially those who are members of Southern Baptist churches, to do everything in their power to advocate for a just and equitable immigration system, those in the professional community to seek ways to administer just and compassionate care for the immigrants in their community, and our Southern Baptist entities to provide resources that will equip and empower churches and church members to reach and serve immigrant communities; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage pastors to address immigration issues with their local churches and to exhort their congregations to serve their local immigrant communities; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we affirm that all immigrants are either brothers and sisters in Christ or people whom God loves and has given us an opportunity to reach with the gospel where otherwise they may never have heard.

 

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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

One can hope, but then again the DNC really is stupid enough to trot out some Clintonite, maybe even Hillary herself, in 2020. They’re a perpetual John Mackovic in the 4th quarter against Notre Dame in ‘96.

I wish you were wrong. I hope you are wrong. 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25974

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Pretty good summation of the current state of affairs. Most of the people outraged on this board arent “libs,” and arent “dems” but are real normal people who used to be republicans who have become outraged about what the party has now become. 

Like me. 

Or me.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I wish you were wrong. I hope you are wrong. 

I’m afraid of an overcrowded field of 20 people that want to be president and the carnival barker stands out and wins.

I wish the top Dems would meet in a hotel room after the midterms and collude to thin the heard down to four or five well qualified candidates (no Hillary or Bernie allowed)

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Only because you did 1st. This entire thread is nothing but a troll fest. Anyone that holds one party more responsible than the other is a troll, anyone that says Trump bad, but Obama not bad is a troll. Anyone that feigns concern now, but not 2 years ago when kids where handed over to human traffickers is a troll. It became apparent 2 pages into this thread it was going to be nothing but trolling. This entire fucking board is nothing but trolls. So yeah, I've enjoyed trolling the shit out of this thread.

I hold you responsible because you desire the outcome.

Separating babies from mothers is bad.  Full stop.  Doesn't matter who does it, Obama or Trump.  Always bad to me.  You support this policy.  You're a fucking piece of shit.  Full stop.

Troll.  Troll not.  Doesn't matter.  The underlying person that you are supports the removal of babies from their mother.  "Obama did it too!" isn't a justification.  This is what you want no matter who does it.  You are a piece of shit.  You see, an actual troll would ignore this post because they don't really support Trump's open policy or Obama's mistakes, but you're actually a real person under there who is pretending to troll, but who actually supports removing babies from their mother.  Again, you're a piece of shit.  Don't come to me trying to justify your views and make yourself feel better.  Own it like Trump does, cry yourself to sleep at night with "but Hillarys", or come clean and seek redemption. 

I'm sure plenty of Japanese soldiers felt bad about what they did in Nanking, but fuck them too.  Some of them served under Captains who ordered them to bayonet babies.  Others served under captains who just wanted them to maintain the peace, but had subordinate soldiers bayonette babies anyway.  Those two captains are not equal.  But you, you wouldn't have the strength to be the captain or the soldier.  You'd be the guy back in Japan with a fake disability that is happy that inhuman Chinese babies were getting killed no matter who is doing it or who ordered it.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4062

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I wish you were wrong. I hope you are wrong. 

I do too, but I’m mindful of the fact that:

-They lost to GWB

-They lost to GWB again

-They lost to Trump 

That all happened just within a generation. Those morons cannot get out of their own way. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13215

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

I hope the 11% of Bernie supporters who voted for Trump and proud of themselves. They fucked all of us. Fuck off.

Go fuck yourself with this shit. Bernie was attractive to Trump-leaners because Sanders is a populist and, far more importantly, he was attractive to people who hated establishment Democrats.

Sanders actually had coalitions beyond the most loyal Dem base.

Quote

Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third party voters to have been Democrats. Likewise, approval of President Barack Obama appears to be related — Sanders-Trump voters approved of Obama much less than other Sanders primary voters.

And even then, Sanders primary voters were FAR more loyal to Clinton than Clinton 2008 primary voters were to Obama.

Quote

And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general.

All Hillarymen can fuck off into the woods with Abuela.

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

Posted
Posted
Oh you’ll never get a constructive answer to that. I’ve been asking democrats this exact question since November 2016 and they cannot for the life of them even pretend to know of one.


I think a great case could be made for Virginia. Bernie was much less popular than Hillary among black Democrats and in the DC suburbs.
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14723

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I hold you responsible because you desire the outcome.

Separating babies from mothers is bad.  Full stop.  Doesn't matter who does it, Obama or Trump.  Always bad to me.  You support this policy.  You're a fucking piece of shit.  Full stop.

Troll.  Troll not.  Doesn't matter.  The underlying person that you are supports the removal of babies from their mother.  "Obama did it too!" isn't a justification.  This is what you want no matter who does it.  You are a piece of shit.  You see, an actual troll would ignore this post because they don't really support Trump's open policy or Obama's mistakes, but you're actually a real person under there who is pretending to troll, but who actually supports removing babies from their mother.  Again, you're a piece of shit.  Don't come to me trying to justify your views and make yourself feel better.  Own it like Trump does, cry yourself to sleep at night with "but Hillarys", or come clean and seek redemption. 

I'm sure plenty of Japanese soldiers felt bad about what they did in Nanking, but fuck them too.  Some of them served under Captains who ordered them to bayonet babies.  Others served under captains who just wanted them to maintain the peace, but had subordinate soldiers bayonette babies anyway.  Those two captains are not equal.  But you, you wouldn't have the strength to be the captain or the soldier.  You'd be the guy back in Japan with a fake disability that is happy that inhuman Chinese babies were getting killed no matter who is doing it or who ordered it.

I don't support the policy, never have. I do think it's hilarious you fucktards were dead silent on this issue from 2014-2016. Full Stop. So again, you can stop your petty projection of your own self hatred for being too much of a fucking coward to speak up then onto others. Full Stop. Your hypocritical thoughts on this matter concern me little Full Stop. I don't believe a single word you typed in this post. Full Stop.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Zepol87

Zepol87 9188

Posted
Posted
Ya know I think you’re right. Same writing style, ridiculous takes, worthless posts. Its all there. 
Still waiting for Swam 2.0 to show up though. I know people have claimed others are him but I just don’t see it yet.


Good God no.
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89727

Posted
Posted

Having been in the military, and being a parent, I’ve seen various illnesses run rampant through groups of people/kids who are constantly in close proximity to one another.  

It’s going to happen with these kids.  Or there will be equipment (AC) malfunctions. 

And given the nature of the situation, and how fast these contractors are ramping up their operations, they are going to fuck up the response  

There’s liable to be a little kid or two or three die. 

And people like htown will be out there blaming Obama. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

I don't support the policy, never have. I do think it's hilarious you fucktards were dead silent on this issue from 2014-2016. Full Stop. So again, you can stop your petty projection of your own self hatred for being too much of a fucking coward to speak up then onto others. Full Stop. Your hypocritical thoughts on this matter concern me little Full Stop. I don't believe a single word you typed in this post. Full Stop.

First, shut the fuck up.  You clearly support the policy, have spent the better part of the thread defending it, and now are retreating into your "but Obama" Alamo for getting called out on it.

Second, who was silent?  I don't like it that kids fell through the cracks under Obama, and its a shame that it happened then.   I've been pro-immigrant and pro-bernard on every incarnation of Texas board, and under 4 administrations.  But your god put this policy explicitly in writing only recently, so fuck you.  Again, you're a piece of shit.  Fucking own it.  You support it. You're gonna vote for Trump again in 2020 no matter who runs against him, and you'd vote directly to remove babies from their mothers at the border if it was put to referendum, and you'd make excuses that amount to because "Obama" and because "Hillary" and "dems" and "libs".  But its you there, under the fake troll, that supports the policy of removing babies from their mother.  You liked it under Obama and you like it now.  But the weird thing about you is that you don't want to like it.  Maybe you're the Japanese soldier in Nanking who says "I don't think the Chinese are as good as us, but I don't want to kill babies" while watching his friends stab babies with bayonets.  And you think you aren't as bad, but you are because you start with the mindset that your life is more valuable than the scared immigrant mother and baby.  You think you are more human than them.  But you aren't.  Its you who keeps replying because, even while trolling, you can't live with yourself because of it.  Make excuses all you want, but nobody is going to save your soul.  You can repent and do better, or you can just own it, and wallow in the shit like Trump.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

One can hope, but then again the DNC really is stupid enough to trot out some Clintonite, maybe even Hillary herself, in 2020. They’re a perpetual John Mackovic in the 4th quarter against Notre Dame in ‘96.

Terry MacAullife is the droid you wish you weren't looking for. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Having been in the military, and being a parent, I’ve seen various illnesses run rampant through groups of people/kids who are constantly in close proximity to one another.  

It’s going to happen with these kids.  Or there will be equipment (AC) malfunctions. 

And given the nature of the situation, and how fast these contractors are ramping up their operations, they are going to fuck up the response  

There’s liable to be a little kid or two or three die. 

And people like htown will be out there blaming Obama. 

Nah.  Htown would first feel absolute glee at that news.  Then he'd feel some remorse for feeling glee.  Then he'd blame Obama and call for all kids at the border to be intentionally injected with Ebola because one border kid had a disease when Obama was President.  Then he might feel some remorse again, but nothing we could do, right?  Obama, Trump, next Pres, we just have to keep on injecting kids with Ebola because we always injected them with Ebola.  Everybody who is against injections is a hypocrite because they must have voted for some President in the past.  And hey, the back 9 where he golfs is looking a little bit whiter, so maybe he's a little bit happy about that.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10747

Posted
Posted

Obama put kids without parents in centers when they were crossing by themselves. His administration never had a policy to separate kids from parents if they crossed as a unit. Not sure why clearlake keeps saying but Obama did it and no one is pointing out that kids were NOT separated from parents ever before.

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1742

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Obama put kids without parents in centers when they were crossing by themselves. His administration never had a policy to separate kids from parents if they crossed as a unit. Not sure why clearlake keeps saying but Obama did it and no one is pointing out that kids were NOT separated from parents ever before.

I understand that you’re responding to a point someone else made, so it’s contextual. But if families were housed in cages together rather than separating the children from the parents, is your position that this would be tolerated? I don’t understand the relevance of Obama’s policy vs. Trump’s to enforce immigration law. Obama’s was better because his buns had no seeds?

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Captainant

Captainant 27680

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I understand that you’re responding to a point someone else made, so it’s contextual. But if families were housed in cages together rather than separating the children from the parents, is your position that this would be tolerated? I don’t understand the relevance of Obama’s policy vs. Trump’s to enforce immigration law. Obama’s was better because his buns had no seeds?

If you think that NOT ripping families apart is just a minor thing like having seeds or not on a bun, you're a fucking monster.

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Captainant

Captainant 27680

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I don’t, so where does that leave us?

You do, you just won't admit it.

 

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I don’t understand the relevance of Obama’s policy vs. Trump’s to enforce immigration law. Obama’s was better because his buns had no seeds?

Obama housed children that crossed on their own, who did not come with families, and were predominately 15-17 years old. Trump is broadly declaring ANYONE who crosses the border, even if they're asylum seekers, as criminals and animals and leeches AND on top of that taking their children away in a ploy to get funding for a wall that he said Mexico would pay for. This isn't simply seeds vs no seeds. This is Obama's gross realpolitik vs trump's (and his administration's) hateful xenophobia and nationalism. You're defending his policy with whataboutism. You and people like you are why trump is able to do these atrocities.

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9875

Posted
Posted

Dear trumpkin,

So you keep claiming the policy of mentally abusing toddlers was the same under Obama, which we all know is gas lighting BS, but lets say it was.  Why weren’t you outraged then?  I don’t remember any threads being started on here about Obama abusing toddlers.    Instead I remember outrage about a pizza parlor and some emails, but you had a real example of Obama abusing toddlers and you just sat on that?  Also, the republican congress knew of real crimes against humanity being performed by the O administration and no hearings or fanning moral outrage by the party of precious family values and value of life?  You are only now upset at Obama once we noticed a inhumane policy being  continued (according to you) by DOTARD?  You trumpkins made a scandle out of a tan suit, arugula, and some mustard but you were saving this in your back pocket for a later date??  Really?  

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1742

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

where do you think that this takes us?  somewhere different than talking about how terrible this is? 

Absolutely nowhere. I directed my response to a poster specifically and other’s decided to chime in to repeat the chorus of how I somehow have the balls to go against the overwhelming majority’s position without trolling yet am lying when I state that I think separating kids from their parents is an abhorrent tactic. The only thing even remotely close to that position is that I agree that the tactics used in the past have completely failed and I understand the “why” as a means of being a deterrent. Pull that shit with Swam or Escriva, not with me. I think that I’ve been a hell of a lot more respectful to people than I have received in return.

My post clearly stated what I was asking: Is the “X” factor in her outrage that kids are being separated from their parents? I’m trying to understand if the issue she has is “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages!” or “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages without their parents!” I never heard the former being discussed until recently by either side.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Absolutely nowhere. I directed my response to a poster specifically and other’s decided to chime in to repeat the chorus of how I somehow have the balls to go against the overwhelming majority’s position without trolling yet am lying when I state that I think separating kids from their parents is an abhorrent tactic. The only thing even remotely close to that position is that I agree that the tactics used in the past have completely failed and I understand the “why” as a means of being a deterrent. Pull that shit with Swam or Escriva, not with me. I think that I’ve been a hell of a lot more respectful to people than I have received in return.

My post clearly stated what I was asking: Is the “X” factor in her outrage that kids are being separated from their parents? I’m trying to understand if the issue she has is “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages!” or “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages without their parents!” I never heard the former being discussed until recently by either side.

Cages are generally bad.  But some contexts are worse than others.   Ideally, there would be humane family detention for people arriving at the border while they are going through legal process.   Tent camps in the Arizona desert or cages doesn't cut it, and catch and release is preferable to that.   But worst of all is tent camps in the desert and cages for kids who arrived at the border with family but were turned into de facto orphans by the government. 

Humane family detention > catch and release > desert tent camps and cages for families > desert tent camps and cages for kids torn from the arms of their families

 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20966

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Absolutely nowhere. I directed my response to a poster specifically and other’s decided to chime in to repeat the chorus of how I somehow have the balls to go against the overwhelming majority’s position without trolling yet am lying when I state that I think separating kids from their parents is an abhorrent tactic. The only thing even remotely close to that position is that I agree that the tactics used in the past have completely failed and I understand the “why” as a means of being a deterrent. Pull that shit with Swam or Escriva, not with me. I think that I’ve been a hell of a lot more respectful to people than I have received in return.

My post clearly stated what I was asking: Is the “X” factor in her outrage that kids are being separated from their parents? I’m trying to understand if the issue she has is “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages!” or “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages without their parents!” I never heard the former being discussed until recently by either side.

Ok.  Here's how it reads - she's talking about how the thing under Obama was detaining minors who were unaccompanied when they arrived, as opposed to separating families.  You're asking if detaining families together is so much better than removing children from parents and detaining them separately.  Everyone shouts goddammit yes wtf because that's precisely what this has been about recently.  You have been somewhat more reasonable than others defending the practice.  However, the prevailing strategy from the pro tender age facility contingent is to point to a different thing, declare victory, fold arms, and proceed with nana boobooisms.  So, the response you received had some frustration baked into it.

Edited by Celery Man
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JBJ

JBJ 3655

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

My post clearly stated what I was asking: Is the “X” factor in her outrage that kids are being separated from their parents? I’m trying to understand if the issue she has is “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages!” or “OMG, they’re putting kids in cages without their parents!” I never heard the former being discussed until recently by either side.

The latter is clearly worse.  Toddlers and infants are totally dependent on their parents for emotional comfort.  If you give them a shiny toy, they won't even notice they are in a cage.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23475

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mojo Hand said:

 Address asylum application bandwith > Humane family detention > immediate auto-deport back to country of origin > catch and release > desert tent camps and cages for families > desert tent camps and cages for kids torn from the arms of their families

 

This about sums it up, as far the contemporary situation is concerned.  I would offer additions in bold. 

As far as cages are bad, and some context being worse than others, I agree.  But I am also told that "normalization" is the word of the week. 

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JBJ

JBJ 3655

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Humane family detention > catch and release > desert tent camps and cages for families > desert tent camps and cages for kids torn from the arms of their families

 

Given the same size cell and access to food and water.  I'd rather be detained in a tent camp personally.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
Just now, Anastasis said:

This about sums it up, as far the contemporary situation is concerned.  I would offer additions in bold. 

As far as cages are bad, and some context being worse than others, I agree.  But I am also told that "normalization" is the word of the week. 

How is immediate auto-deport compatible with Due Process? 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23475

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mojo Hand said:

How is immediate auto-deport compatible with Due Process? 

I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the particulars.  If you don't like the "auto" terminology, call it "expedited processing and deportation as a family unit to country of origin". Resource it right and we can figure out the expedited path within the bounds of due process. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Or we could just have a process to let people escape death with their family.  

There is literally no public safety reason to break up and jail 99% of these families.

That would mean more brown people who speak another language living in America.  The right simply doesn't want them here. 

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