DACA, immigration reform whatever

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Cross posting...

Have a wonderful World Refugee Day, y'all!

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

It's not public yet, so I don't know what it will say.  

Based on my understanding, including your overview of the legal issues in play earlier in the thread, it is likely that creating a scheme to detain the family units via EO will violate Flores.  The question I think will be whether anyone sues and whether a judge wants to stay the EO. We'll see how it plays out. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I don' think that is far enough. We are in civil war whether we know it or not. 

You may be right.  But that's where it has to start.  We the people need to create and exploit fractures between the administration and the apparatus of government that it commands.  Large, peaceful protests.  MAKE the admin command cops, troops, etc. attack the people.  Understand that people ARE going to be hurt.  

Also understand that those images will travel around the country and the world in a millisecond.  Every American soldier has a smartphone.  Every American soldier also has a UCMJ, which is clear on their obligation to refuse an unlawful order.  Create the fracture -- then exploit it.  Use the Trump tactics against the admin.

The government is a machine, but it's a machine made of people.  Make those people choose their side, and leave Trump standing on his desk shrieking orders that nobody will follow.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Based on my understanding, including your overview of the legal issues in play earlier in the thread, it is likely that creating a scheme to detain the family units via EO will violate Flores.  The question I think will be whether anyone sues and whether a judge wants to stay the EO. We'll see how it plays out. 

Sure, and I wouldn't put it past Trump to intend that result, so that he can blame the court for the consequences. 

[Skyline 325]

So Flores set the limit at 20 days that you can hold children. The Trump admin is just going to roll forward and take on the challenge in the courts. 

[staboner 4969]

34 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

these are so ridiculously over the top that it makes me think its BS

i don't doubt comments like that exist though. i know they do. and its frightening how we have allowed political and cultural divides to turn some of us into monsters. 

[FWD 297]

Looking like Schumer's gambit paid off. Trump will unilaterally stop the policy without any concessions from dems on wall funding.

But if/when a court rules this exec order is in conflict with Flores, it will reopen the can of worms.

[Texas73 420]

1 minute ago, staboner said:

these are so ridiculously over the top that it makes me think its BS

i don't doubt comments like that exist though. i know they do. and its frightening how we have allowed political and cultural divides to turn some of us into monsters. 

These are not over the top if you have been paying attention the last 2 years. They are horrendous but they are reality in today's America.

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

Sure, and I wouldn't put it past Trump to intend that result, so that he can blame the court for the consequences. 

From Trump perspective, that would bolster his preferred political narrative. "Told you it required a legislative fix, see what the courts just did, now if that damn democrats would get on board with MAGA would could fix this shit" I am not sure that that is the intended effect or not, but its definitely a possible outcome. Will be interesting to see if anyone makes a play at a suit, and who. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, staboner said:

these are so ridiculously over the top that it makes me think its BS

i don't doubt comments like that exist though. i know they do. and its frightening how we have allowed political and cultural divides to turn some of us into monsters. 

Russia! /Hugo

 

But kinda serious. If Russian actives measures are being deployed to split Americans, there is zero reason to think that they are not doing so on the immigration issue via social network. 

[Spankytoes 1739]

28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

A song and dance at the White House right now...... It's pretty funny.  Basically, Trump is eating shit right now.  The Republicans are doing everything they can to explain their position and place blame on everyone else (Obama, courts, Democrats, etc, etc), but this is nothing more than a white flag PC. 

"Fuck, I totally misjudged the situation.  But I'm still right!  But I'm going to tuck tail for now because we're getting killed on this issue."

It's hilarious too.... a bunch of old white guys making excuses about immigration.  Not one of them folks of color in the room.  I think I did spot a woman.  So impotent.  Hey, there's Cornyn, speaking of impotent.

 

You do realize that everyone in that room is elected and elections are open to anyone that meets the basic criteria to run, regardless of race or gender...right?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Spankytoes

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

You realize that everyone in that room is elected and elections are open to anyone that meets the basic criteria to run, regardless of race...right?

Huh?  The makeup of the room wasn't submitted to a vote.   Trump chose the attendees.  And the cabinet officials at the table weren't even elected. 

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

8 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

You do realize that everyone in that room is elected and elections are open to anyone that meets the basic criteria to run, regardless of race or gender...right?

Wait, we voted on attendance for the meeting?  Was this on the last ballot?  The optics were horrible and if you don't "realize" this, then... yea, it's you.

 

[Spankytoes 1739]

I can’t even see the meeting. I assumed it was a session. Mea culpa. I’m on the subway 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

11 minutes ago, staboner said:

these are so ridiculously over the top that it makes me think its BS

i don't doubt comments like that exist though. i know they do. and its frightening how we have allowed political and cultural divides to turn some of us into monsters. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

[atomheartbevo 89648]

Trump’s tweets will ramp up a notch if he’s defeated on this. Especially if Melanie and Ivanka were siding with the families. 

He’s liable to bend Miller over the bathroom sink in the morning. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump’s tweets will ramp up a notch if he’s defeated on this. Especially if Melanie and Ivanka were siding with the families. 

He’s liable to bend Miller over the bathroom sink in the morning. 

[miller] Finally! [miller]

[BrickHorn 18218]

24 minutes ago, Skyline said:

So Flores set the limit at 20 days that you can hold children. The Trump admin is just going to roll forward and take on the challenge in the courts. 

The key is to not forget this happened.  To recognize that Trump hasn’t changed.  That he has not suddenly become reasonable and empathetic.  

He is caving to pressure, but it took an insane amount of backlash to get him to back off an obviously inhumane policy.  He will do awful things in the future.  We shouldn’t have to routinely rally faith groups, charitable organizations, and human rights activists to talk the president out of atrocities.  

The only way to prevent this from happening again is to vote him and the GOP out.  

[Texas73 420]

Trump is going to be so pissed at Melania he won't fuck her for days.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Texas73

[4th&Five 41525]

 

[Dahobbs 17533]

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The key is to not forget this happened.  To recognize that Trump hasn’t changed.  That he has not suddenly become reasonable and empathetic.  

He is caving to pressure, but it took an insane amount of backlash to get him to back off an obviously inhumane policy.  He will do awful things in the future.  We shouldn’t have to routinely rally faith groups, charitable organizations, and human rights activists to talk the president out of atrocities.  

The only way to prevent this from happening again is to vote him and the GOP out.  

My preferred solution would be much more harsh. I think every single one of them has violated their oath of office and committed crimes against humanity. And I think they should burn for it. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Brisketexan 105095]

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The key is to not forget this happened.  To recognize that Trump hasn’t changed.  That he has not suddenly become reasonable and empathetic.  

He is caving to pressure, but it took an insane amount of backlash to get him to back off an obviously inhumane policy.  He will do awful things in the future.  We shouldn’t have to routinely rally faith groups, charitable organizations, and human rights activists to talk the president out of atrocities.  

The only way to prevent this from happening again is to vote him and the GOP out.  

This, forever and ever.  When facing an enemy such as this, a negotiated peace only sets the stage for the next war.  Complete and total defeat is the necessary path.

I have lived for nearly half a century.  I have voted LARGELY for one party since I became 18 (not exclusively, but probably better than 75-25, over the long run -- judicial races skew that).  This election will be the first in my lifetime where I will be voting AGAINST a party, across the board.

[deech 2274]

Wait, I thought this was all the Dems fault and Obama and Clinton and W. Bush had been breaking up families and detaining children their entire presidencies?  

How can one EO from the President allow him to violate the law the Dems won't change?  #confused.

[Pancho 44757]

I still want to know how they plan to get some of these kids back to their parents, especially the ones who aren't of age to even know their last name, can't stand, or are still in diapers. 

 

[Huckleberry 32851]

Just now, Pancho Negro said:

I still want to know how they plan to get some of these kids back to their parents, especially the ones who aren't of age to even know their last name, can't stand, or are still in diapers. 

 

Maybe they tattooed identification numbers on their arms.

[GSU&UT 1798]

7 minutes ago, deech said:

Wait, I thought this was all the Dems fault and Obama and Clinton and W. Bush had been breaking up families and detaining children their entire presidencies?  

How can one EO from the President allow him to violate the law the Dems won't change?  #confused.

Beyond just how gross it is to do this to families and children, it's comical how completely uncoordinated this all was. They could not have made any more mistakes if they tried.

[lemonlime 5503]

I still want to know how they plan to get some of these kids back to their parents, especially the ones who aren't of age to even know their last name, can't stand, or are still in diapers. 
 

And with many of their parents deported already and with no financial resources

[Js1 85310]

2 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

I still want to know how they plan to get some of these kids back to their parents, especially the ones who aren't of age to even know their last name, can't stand, or are still in diapers. 

 

"Are those your parents? You're brown. They're brown. I'm sure this is correct."

[Stringer 1438]

47 minutes ago, Skyline said:

So Flores set the limit at 20 days that you can hold children. The Trump admin is just going to roll forward and take on the challenge in the courts. 

 

Hannity tonight: "Credit to Donald Trump.  He saw a problem and he fixed it.  He had to do it because the Democrats were obstructing at every turn. "

[deech 2274]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Maybe they tattooed identification numbers on their arms.

That moment where you honestly think - with this group - it's entirely possible.

[RDCanecutter 26411]

1 minute ago, Stringer said:

 

Hannity tonight: "Credit to Donald Trump.  He saw a problem and he fixed it.  He had to do it because the Democrats were obstructing at every turn. "

Hannity makes the case for retroactive Irish deportation every time he cues up Florida Georgia Line.

And I understand that the Irish don't want him. Maybe we can compromise, and drop him off halfway between our two countries.

[atomheartbevo 89648]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/20/migrant-children-held-in-tender-age-shelters-after-being-separated-from-parents-report.html

even Fox News was reporting on it.  

 And I love FN comments

Quote

I love how the Black organization is denouncing this movement, because black men know all about being fathers in their kids lives right???!!!! Why not learn how to be a parent and how to raise good children before you start opening your big mouth.

 

[Pancho 44757]

 

[Dahobbs 17533]

2 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

Spanky still doesnt see another way. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

Well, yeah, paying off big Trump donors who run these prison camps was part of the design.   Take kids away from the free childcare providers known as "parents" and pay contractors a ton to do a shitty job running the daycare dayandnightcare from hell. 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Maybe they tattooed identification numbers on their arms.

Nah, we've modernized.

 

Barcodes.

 

 

[Dahobbs 17533]

3 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Nah, we've modernized.

 

Barcodes.

 

 

Qr codes 

[SaucyJack 3488]

Xxxx

Edited June 20, 2018 by SaucyJack
Not worth the space

[JBJ 3654]

22 minutes ago, deech said:

Wait, I thought this was all the Dems fault and Obama and Clinton and W. Bush had been breaking up families and detaining children their entire presidencies?  

How can one EO from the President allow him to violate the law the Dems won't change?  #confused.

Like others have already pointed out.  This EO will probably be challenged and defeated.  The only executive solution is to not enforce border crossings.

[InkaUtexas 25905]

21 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Maybe they tattooed identification numbers on their arms.

well they are all MS13 right? They love tats. 

[Js1 85310]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Qr codes 

Microchipped

[Dahobbs 17533]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Like others have already pointed out.  This EO will probably be challenged and defeated.  The only executive solution is to not enforce border crossings.

Or, you know, not take longer than 20 days to process these folks? Or not lock them up at all? Or place them in non-secure shelters (i.e., not jails). Tons of options. It isn't a binary choice of don't enforce the border and separate families. 

[Captainant 27653]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Or, you know, not take longer than 20 days to process these folks? Or not lock them up at all? Or place them in non-secure shelters (i.e., not jails). Tons of options. It isn't a binary choice of don't enforce the border and separate families. 

If you have the mind of an early onset dementia patient you might think those are the only options.

[retread 2951]

I know this is pollyannish thinking, but why not set up a little town(s) near the border where all of these people could stay. There could be a police presence, and you could enlist young people to help out like a Peace Corps type effort. Triage out the bad apples and send them back. Cultivate the good ones to be future contributers here in the US. /end pollyannish thought

[Ted Lange 16084]

1 minute ago, retread said:

I know this is pollyannish thinking, but why not set up a little town(s) near the border where all of these people could stay. There could be a police presence, and you could enlist young people to help out like a Peace Corps type effort. Triage out the bad apples and send them back. Cultivate the good ones to be future contributers here in the US. /end pollyannish thought

Like purgatory 

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

2 minutes ago, retread said:

I know this is pollyannish thinking, but why not set up a little town(s) near the border where all of these people could stay. There could be a police presence, and you could enlist young people to help out like a Peace Corps type effort. Triage out the bad apples and send them back. Cultivate the good ones to be future contributers here in the US. /end pollyannish thought

I've got the optimal Administrator.....

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Ted Lange said:

Like purgatory 

Let's call it the Dharma Initiative. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, retread said:

I know this is pollyannish thinking, but why not set up a little town(s) near the border where all of these people could stay. There could be a police presence, and you could enlist young people to help out like a Peace Corps type effort. Triage out the bad apples and send them back. Cultivate the good ones to be future contributers here in the US. /end pollyannish thought

You have to understand that current Republicans largely don't want immigrants from south of the border (or shithole African nations).  They don't want to make it easier for them to become citizens legally.  They don't want them having anchor babies on our side of the border who will be citizens by birth.   A majority even supported separating kids from their parents.  When Trump talks about these immigrants "infesting" and "overrunning" our nation, he means brown people turning whites into a minority. 

[simplicity 9]

16 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

One part of the solution is to quit  incentivizing people to bring children with them to the border, which is what we did before Obama de facto opened the border.

Or, we could not separate children from their parents when they get here.

[scottsins 1966]

24 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Like others have already pointed out.  This EO will probably be challenged and defeated.  The only executive solution is to not enforce border crossings.

Lol at “only executive solution”.  Who the fuck told you that was the case?