DACA, immigration reform whatever

[FWD 297]

24 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Like others have already pointed out.  This EO will probably be challenged and defeated.  The only executive solution is to not enforce border crossings.

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 minute ago, scottsins said:

Lol at “only executive solution”.  Who the fuck told you that was the case?

Despite multiple opportunities, he has failed to identify any law that requires family separation. He is evil, just like everyone else who supports, tolerates, or deflects from the evil of this policy. 

[Biff Tannen 45676]

1 minute ago, FWD said:

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

But the president said it was 3%.

[yoladu 4093]

1 hour ago, Texas73 said:

Trump is going to be so pissed at Melania he won't fuck her for days.

they don't fuck

[scottsins 1966]

3 minutes ago, FWD said:

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

Yep.  Ankle monitoring companies kick all kinds of ass lobbying and obtaining government contracts for their equipment and services.  I’m shocked that they aren’t already included.

[simplicity 9]

15 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Lol whatever.  Hillary bailed out the DNC, which was broke.  Bernie was an outsider insurgent candidate that gets to pick and choose when he wants to be a democrat... too bad he got berned with Hillary getting a shitload more real votes.

So that gives them the right to violate their own bylaws which state they have to be neutral in the primary?

[Biff Tannen 45676]

3 minutes ago, yoladu said:

they don't fuck

[Captainant 27655]

2 minutes ago, simplicity said:

So that gives them the right to violate their own bylaws which state they have to be neutral in the primary?

negged for derailing. Take that shit to its own thread, not this thread on immigration atrocities.

[simplicity 9]

Just now, Captainant said:

negged for derailing. Take that shit to its own thread, not this thread on immigration atrocities.

Fair enough. 

[Pancho 44759]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

10 minutes ago, FWD said:

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

Coincidentally, I just read an article that we were ankle-braceleting and releasing the parents before this zero-tolerance policy went into effect.  I wasn't even aware of this until just now.

So what exactly is the concern with "catch and release" given that this technological solution is already in place?  Story:

“I was afraid they’d come and take my children. They had said the laws are going to change and they are going to separate the mothers from their children,” said Hernandez, who crossed from Mexico into South Texas via a navigable section of the Rio Grande with her son, Jaero, 13, and daughter Susan, 8.

Hernandez, though, was lucky. She was caught before the new zero-tolerance policy fully went into effect, and so she was released May 10 with an electronic bracelet clamped to her ankle and her children at her side. Along with dozens of other migrants, she was taken to the Catholic Charities Rio Grande Valley Respite Center, where families can get a hot meal and clothing. Earlier this month, the center was filled with the noise of children who played together in a corner of the room with their parents nearby.

The scene was a stark contrast to what most families will face under the new criminal enforcement policy.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/anguish-southwest-border-more-immigrant-children-are-separated-parents-n874821

 

[DixonHur 11296]

14 minutes ago, FWD said:

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

Too expensive.  They should just sew some sort of symbol on their clothes, like an badge, or arm band....or maybe they could give them all a tattoo. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[JBJ 3654]

13 minutes ago, FWD said:

They had a case management system whereby asylum seekers were released pending a court date, and 90% of them showed up to their court date. They can also use ankle bracelets if 90% is not high enough. It is in no way necessary to imprison people with young children who have either broken no law or only have a misdemeanor in their attempt to petition for asylum.

Where does that nunber come from? Immigration courts have the highest failure-to-appear rates.  It's around 40% for catch-and-release and that's including those using ankle monitors.

[Texas73 420]

37 minutes ago, simplicity said:

messed up

Edited June 20, 2018 by Texas73

[JBJ 3654]

34 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Despite multiple opportunities, he has failed to identify any law that requires family separation. He is evil, just like everyone else who supports, tolerates, or deflects from the evil of this policy. 

Why willing lie when it's easily verified that I did?

[simplicity 9]

5 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

No south of the border people showed up until 2008? I learn so much on here.

Oh, Obama sent over 3 million back, more than any other president.

Saw your edit, nvm

Edited June 20, 2018 by simplicity

[Mojo Hand 4580]

15 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Where does that nunber come from? Immigration courts have the highest failure-to-appear rates.  It's around 40% for catch-and-release and that's including those using ankle monitors.

Where does your number come from?  40% makes no sense because the entire point is that you can find them via GPS if they don't appear.  If you are suggesting that 60% don't appear but are quickly scooped up by tracking, I don't see the problem.

By contrast, I found support for his number pretty quickly:

Quote

 

Officials said the ankle bracelets are extremely effective in getting people to appear in court.

"The compliance rate with those who are being monitored with electronic ankle bracelets can be as high as 90 percent," said Amber Cargile of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/26223944/feds-use-ankle-monitors-to-keep-tabs-on-illegal-immigrants

Also, the specific program he cited actually had appearance rate of 99%:

 

"The families have thrived," wrote Schlarb, noting that 99 percent of participants "successfully attended their court appearances and ICE check-ins." That includes 15 families ultimately deported.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/immigration/ct-trump-immigration-detention-alternate-asylum-seekers-20170609-story.html

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[GW Hayduke 1953]

14 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Where does that nunber come from? Immigration courts have the highest failure-to-appear rates.  It's around 40% for catch-and-release and that's including those using ankle monitors.

Article from DOJ monthly immigration newsletter in 2010:

Based on admittedly incomplete data, ICE estimates that its three ATD programs cost significantly less than regular detention and have high rates of success, as measured by the percentage of participants who appear for all their hearings. Of the three programs, ISAP is the most restrictive and expensive, while EM is the least. ICE reports that approximately 87 percent of ISAP participants, 96 percent of ESR participants, and 93 percent of EM participants appear for their removal hearings. However, all three programs have a limited capacity: ISAP has a daily capacity for 6,000 aliens, ESR for 7,000, and EM for 5,000.14 As of September 1, 2009, there were 19,160 aliens in ATD programs.

 

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2010/06/11/vol4no4.pdf

 

[JBJ 3654]

2 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Where does your number come from?  40% makes no sense because the entire point is that you can find them via GPS if they don't appear.  If you are suggesting that 60% don't appear but are quickly scooped up by tracking, I don't see the problem.

By contrast, I found support for his number pretty quickly:

Also, the specific program he cited actually had appearance rate of 99%:

I should clarify 40% never appear (i.e. don't get caught) and that's including both ankled and not.  If the number really is as high as 90% with bracelets, that's pretty reasonable.

[Revolution512 1487]

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities

 

Trump will no doubt claim any change as his victory. 

[Michael Knight 12977]

 

Quote

The Trump administration’s policy of separating immigrant children from their families has been credited primarily to the strenuous efforts of White House adviser Stephen Miller. Perhaps you would like to call him about it.

Quote

Miller’s cell phone number is 202-881-8641. He’s a busy guy, but maybe you can get ahold of him long enough to have a productive discussion.

https://splinternews.com/heres-stephen-millers-cell-phone-number-if-you-need-it-1826985626

[F250 28767]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

My preferred solution would be much more harsh. I think every single one of them has violated their oath of office and committed crimes against humanity. And I think they should burn for it. 

I am down for some old school tarring and feathering. Throw in locking some of them up in stocks for good measure. They should also be pelted with rotten cabbage. Nothing lethal, just good old fashion humiliation.

 

[Js1 85312]

9 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

 

https://splinternews.com/heres-stephen-millers-cell-phone-number-if-you-need-it-1826985626

He's hoping, for the first time ever, a woman uses it that isn't his mom.

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

questions i have:

1) what happens to the kids already in cages?

2) what happens to families detained for longer than 20 days?

3) why are we charging asylum seekers with misdemeanors?

4) when are we going to let asylum seekers enter legally, so that they don't have to do so illegally?

[kevwun 15774]

I'm sure this is a well-thought-out executive order that wasn't thrown together over the course of a few hours by panicked staffers.

Edited June 20, 2018 by kevwun

[staboner 4969]

absolute fucking clown show

[hayden_horn 11362]

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I'm sure this is a well-thought-out executive order that wasn't thrown together over the course of a few hours by panicked staffers.

well, they misspelled "separation" in the title. also, it's called "affording congress an opportunity to address family seperation"

[Captainant 27655]

Just now, staboner said:

absolute fucking clown show

I prefer "shit show clown fiesta"

[Skyline 325]

14 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

questions i have:

1) what happens to the kids already in cages?

2) what happens to families detained for longer than 20 days?

3) why are we charging asylum seekers with misdemeanors?

4) when are we going to let asylum seekers enter legally, so that they don't have to do so illegally?

Additionally, what we did to those people is a freaking atrocity. Will the US now be more lenient to them? Because they deserve a better life after what the govt just put them through. 

[Pancho 44759]

 

[SDG 3319]

17 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

questions i have:

1) what happens to the kids already in cages?

2) what happens to families detained for longer than 20 days?

3) why are we charging asylum seekers with misdemeanors?

4) when are we going to let asylum seekers enter legally, so that they don't have to do so illegally?

The only one I have an answer for is 3) we aren’t. The ones that are charged crossed illegally. (I get the confusion though as true asylum seekers are part of the split up population). 

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

Why willing lie when it's easily verified that I did?

I'm not lying, you are. You have identified one statutory provision that doesn't say anything about what you claim. You can't explain at all how it supports your position. And that is because it does not. 

[LongestHorn 759]

Edited June 20, 2018 by LongestHorn

[Fozzz 152]

39 minutes ago, SDG said:

The only one I have an answer for is 3) we aren’t. The ones that are charged crossed illegally. (I get the confusion though as true asylum seekers are part of the split up population). 

What do you mean?

 

 

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

So does Secretary Nielsen head on back to the Mexican restaurant tonight to finish her meal? 

MAGA!

[SDG 3319]

26 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

What do you mean?

 

 

 

It’s right there in the tweet.  The key word is “between” as in between ports of entry. You can’t legally seek asylum between ports of entry you must seek it “at” a port of entry.  Crossing any border between ports is illegal and at that point you become a criminal and not an asylum seeker.  We are not prosecuting asylum seekers and any narrative that’s says we are is false.  The optics here is so bad the left doesn’t need to spread false narratives to win.   

Edited June 20, 2018 by SDG

[simplicity 9]

Should have never happened in the first place. Fuck Trump.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

https://splinternews.com/heres-stephen-millers-cell-phone-number-if-you-need-it-1826985626

And the followup:

 

https://splinternews.com/twitter-is-punishing-users-who-tweeted-our-stephen-mill-1826993497

 

Quote

Now, Twitter users who have either shared the post or posted Miller’s phone number have had their accounts temporarily suspended, with Twitter citing a violation of the site’s rules against publishing personal information. It’s safe to assume a shit-stirring campaign by all manner of internet assholes and tattletales was also effective:

 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

24 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So does Secretary Nielsen head on back to the Mexican restaurant tonight to finish her meal? 

MAGA!

Probably hit up a Taco Bell in Alexandria to avoid the masses.  Perhaps the drive-thru.

[Brisketexan 105096]

2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Probably hit up a Taco Bell in Alexandria to avoid the masses.  Perhaps the drive-thru.

She deserves to spend the rest of her life on the shitter, and that still won't be enough time to evacuate the foulness she has ingested.

And I'm not even talking about the Taco Bell grub.

[Fozzz 152]

28 minutes ago, SDG said:

It’s right there in the tweet.  The key word is “between” as in between ports of entry. You can’t legally seek asylum between ports of entry you must seek it “at” a port of entry.  Crossing any border between ports is illegal and at that point you become a criminal and not an asylum seeker.  We are not prosecuting asylum seekers and any narrative that’s says we are is false.  The narrative here is so bad the left doesn’t need to send false narratives to win.   

You don't have to go through a port of entry to seek asylum. 

Quote

Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158

Edited June 20, 2018 by Fozzz

[SDG 3319]

You are correct. You can apply for defensive asylum up to a year after arrival but can’t have been deported.  That’s a rather odd process...

[JBJ 3654]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm not lying, you are. You have identified one statutory provision that doesn't say anything about what you claim. You can't explain at all how it supports your position. And that is because it does not. 

Let me break it down for you:

1) For non-Mexican/Canadian children along the border, DHS has 3 days to turn them over to HHS. HHS places them in an ORR shelter, and they are automatically placed in removal proceedings.

2) We used to have 4 family detention centers that jointly operated as ORR shelters and DHS detainment, so that families could be kept together.  In 2016 (Flores v Lynch), these were restricted for violating Flores v Reno (1997).

What else is there to explain?

Edited June 20, 2018 by JBJ

[Foosters 17850]

2 hours ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

Wait, Donald Trump lied?

[retread 2951]

They're flooding in. Everyone's talking about it. We're going to get overrun.

[Foosters 17850]

1 hour ago, SDG said:

It’s right there in the tweet.  The key word is “between” as in between ports of entry. You can’t legally seek asylum between ports of entry you must seek it “at” a port of entry.  Crossing any border between ports is illegal and at that point you become a criminal and not an asylum seeker.  We are not prosecuting asylum seekers and any narrative that’s says we are is false.  The optics here is so bad the left doesn’t need to spread false narratives to win.   

This is not true. 

[RDCanecutter 26411]

7 minutes ago, retread said:

They're flooding in. Everyone's talking about it. We're going to get overrun.

Coming over the walls like at the Alamo.

[Dahobbs 17534]

11 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Let me break it down for you:

1) For non-Mexican/Canadian children along the border, DHS has 3 days to turn them over to HHS. HHS places them in an ORR shelter, and they are automatically placed in removal proceedings.

2) We used to have 4 family detention centers that jointly operated as ORR shelters and DHS detainment, so that families could be kept together.  In 2016 (Flores v Lynch), these were restricted for violating Flores v Reno (1997).

What else is there to explain?

That any law requires (1) the detention of anyone crossing the border in a secure facility, (2) that release prior to trial is somehow incompatible with the law (it is in fact a common practice for pretty much any crime), and (3) that the fact that some family detention were run in unlawful fashion means that no such facility can be operated.

1 and 2 are 100% false. 3 is of questionable validity as the second flores case turned on the nature of the specific facilities and how they were utilized. Again, you are full of shit.