DACA, immigration reform whatever

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

15 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Welcome to America.

http://www.brasscheck.com/druggingkids/

http://www.cchr.org/cchr-reports/child-drugging/introduction.html

 

 

Yes, welcome to America where you get to post links to organizations funded by Scientology to somehow make a point accepting child abuse. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by SmokeyTheBear

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Dolemite being a Scientologist explains so much. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Dolemite being a Scientologist explains so much. 

The more shocking thing is that his post implies that he is against something Trump and DHS are doing. 

We are too quick to prescribe for childhood ADD, depression, and anxiety, but that's a topic for another thread. 

[Anastasis 23313]

24 minutes ago, Captainant said:

There's been multiple journalists reporting that they're dosing kids with anything psychotics because for some reason they're melting down after being ripped away from their parents. 

Link please?

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

We are too quick to prescribe for childhood ADD, depression, and anxiety, but that's a topic for another thread. 

Not just the milder stuff. Too quick with the stronger psychotropics as well. 

[Captainant 27239]

48 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Link please?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/393363-lawsuit-alleges-drugs-were-administered-to-children-at-the

 

"The supervisor told me I was going to get a medication injection to calm me down," a young girl told attorneys, according to Reveal News. "Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed."

The court documents also say that workers administering the drugs at the center told children that some of the pills were vitamins. According to filings, one child said "the staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different."

 

One child was given a variety of drugs, including seizure medications, antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs, and the Parkinson's medication known as Benztropine. 

Children said the drugs had negative effects on them, including leaving them unable to walk, fatigued, and fearing other people. 

[Fozzz 152]

More full of shit than some of the nuts on here.

 

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Sounds like he wants to shut down legal immigration now

[kevwun 15565]

Immigration has been a real winner for you Donald, keep at it.

[Js1 84974]

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, Captainant said:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/393363-lawsuit-alleges-drugs-were-administered-to-children-at-the

 

"The supervisor told me I was going to get a medication injection to calm me down," a young girl told attorneys, according to Reveal News. "Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed."

The court documents also say that workers administering the drugs at the center told children that some of the pills were vitamins. According to filings, one child said "the staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different."

 

One child was given a variety of drugs, including seizure medications, antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs, and the Parkinson's medication known as Benztropine. 

Children said the drugs had negative effects on them, including leaving them unable to walk, fatigued, and fearing other people. 

Dude, read the legal filing linked in that piece and come back and tell us that "they're dosing kids with anything psychotics because for some reason they're melting down after being ripped away from their parents", and that it is in anyway directly related to the current separation policy. 

 

Jesus,  guys.  This whole situation is outrageous enough without layering on right out nonsense.

[retread 2951]

[Brisketexan 104216]

32 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Sounds like he wants to shut down legal immigration now

They always did.  Remember, this is the order of lies:

 

LIE 1: "We don't have a problem with immigrants, we just have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants!"

LIE 2: "We need to change our laws to limit NEW immigrants!"

Which leads us to where we are now:

"We need to look closely at all naturalized US citizens, and kick out as many as we can."

 

It has ZERO to do with our historical system and the rule of law.  It has EVERYTHING to do with pure, brainstem-motivated nativism and xenophobia.  In short, if you don't have a real, murican-sounding last name, then you need to GTFO!  MAGA!!!

Every single American who is not (1) lily--white AND (2) has a last name like "Smith" or "Wilson" better watch their ass.  And you'd be dumb as all fuck to support this regime.

[Brisketexan 104216]

Oh, and this is how you fight back: https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/el-paso-county-sheriff-prohibits-staff-from-moonlighting-at-tornillo-tent-city-for-children/

Quote

El Paso’s sheriff has barred his deputies from working off-duty at a new temporary migrant children’s shelter, one of the most forceful steps yet from a growing chorus of law enforcement critical of the Trump administration’s practice of separating children and parents apprehended at the border. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services this month opened temporary tent shelters in Tornillo, about thirty miles east of downtown El Paso, where the sheriff’s prohibition has taken effect. “The Sheriff’s Office will not be working at these facilities, as we don’t support the current administration’s position of separating children simply to discourage illegal immigration,” Sheriff Richard Wiles said. Law enforcement officers frequently work off-duty jobs to supplement their income, but such work requires approval from superiors.

That follows this move yesterday:

Quote

American, United and Frontier airlines vowed Wednesday not to cooperate with President Donald Trump's policy of separating migrant children from their families — provoking an unusually sharp rebuke from the Department of Homeland Security.

Southwest Airlines later said it too wants nothing to do with Trump's widely condemned handling of children seized at the U.S.-Mexico border.

American and United both said they were asking the federal government not to use their planes to transport children who have been taken from their parents under the new policy. Frontier said it will not "knowingly" allow its aircraft to be used for that purpose.

“We bring families together, not apart,” American said, adding: “We have no desire to be associated with separating families, or worse, to profit from it.”

 

Starve the beast.

Don't allow local law enforcement to assist in such efforts in an off-duty (but licensed peace officer) capacity.

Publicize the names of the raw material suppliers for these facilities -- from tents to 2X4s.  Do not do business with them. 

Publicize the names of the people profiting from these enterprises.  Shame them.  Heckle them with loudspeakers on the golf course.  Shame them when they go to Costco.  Do not allow them to move and live in polite society, because they do not belong there.

Shame American businesses from having ANY association with this Administration and its evil.

 

Fight them on every front.  From the one-on-one to the business level.  Lie down with the Trump dogs, you get fleas.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Mojo Hand 4580]

42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Dude, read the legal filing linked in that piece and come back and tell us that "they're dosing kids with anything psychotics because for some reason they're melting down after being ripped away from their parents", and that it is in anyway directly related to the current separation policy. 

 

Jesus,  guys.  This whole situation is outrageous enough without layering on right out nonsense.

That this occurred under Obama doesn't mean that it is not directly related to what is going on now.   The lawsuit alleges a continuing practice.   Kids separated from their parents under Trump's policy and sent to Shiloh are being subjected to the same thing:

 "If you’re in Shiloh then it’s almost certain you are on these medications. So if any child were placed in Shiloh after being separated from a parent, then they’re almost certainly on psychotropics," said Carlos Holguin, a lawyer representing the Center for Human Rights & Constitutional Law.

 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JH076

I don't know what the facts are for the kids in the lawsuit — and we'll see what the defense is — but this practice is necessarily at its worst when the government is inflicting the very separation at issue and rendering the parents unavailable to make medical decisions by virtue of this evil border policy. 

I agree that we shouldn't pile nonsense onto a serious situation.  But, by the same token, we shouldn't ignore negative consequences of Trump's policy simply because they dovetail with negative practices that started before the policy went into effect.    

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

That this occurred under Obama doesn't mean that it is not directly related to what is going on now.   The lawsuit alleges a continuing practice.   Kids separated from their parents under Trump's policy and sent to Shiloh are being subjected to the same thing:

 https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JH076

I don't know what the facts are for the kids in the lawsuit — and we'll see what the defense is — but this practice is necessarily at its worst when the government is inflicting the very separation at issue and rendering the parents unavailable to make medical decisions by virtue of this evil border policy. 

 I agree that we shouldn't pile nonsense onto a serious situation.  But, by the same token, we shouldn't ignore negative consequences of Trump's policy simply because they dovetail with negative practices that started before the policy went into effect.    

Oh look, I agree that inappropriate psychotropic use in institutionalized children, whether they are immigrants or not, is a huge fucking problem.  One I have seen first hand. In actually reading the legal filings, there are clear signals that a full investigation is warranted.  And probably some people should lose their licenses. I would not be surprised if some of the adolescents caught up in the current situation are impacted and something comes of it at some point downstream. But you know well how that filing from April is being used to stoke outrage and hysterics.  Read the fucking posts in the Hill comment section.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

Trump uses the word "great" a lot. In order to understand him and what he is saying when the cameras are rolling, every time he uses the  word "great" just substitute the word "white."

[David Dennison 18457]

1 hour ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Sounds like he wants to shut down legal immigration now

The white majority is in peril. Plurality is right around the corner.

We can't have that.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Oh look, I agree that inappropriate psychotropic use in institutionalized children, whether they are immigrants or not, is a huge fucking problem.  One I have seen first hand. In actually reading the legal filings, there are clear signals that a full investigation is warranted.  And probably some people should lose their licenses. I would not be surprised if some of the adolescents caught up in the current situation are impacted and something comes of it at some point downstream. But you know well how that filing from April is being used to stoke outrage and hysterics.  Read the fucking posts in the Hill comment section.  

Yes and no.   It would not be fair to assert that Trump has created the practice of drugging up hysterical migrant kids who have been separated from their parents.  But, while you are pointing out an accurate caveat to the story, I don't think it mitigates the outrage that should be directed at Trump on this particular basis.  Assuming the lawsuit has merit, it is entirely fair to be outraged at Trump for creating a new class of drugged migrant kids, where the government is both (1) responsible for the wrongful separation for evil reasons and (2) has the parents in hand such that they could make medical decisions for their kids, but is not involving them.   Even though this has been accomplished by throwing the kids into a pre-existing program of drugging migrant kids whose parents were unavailable for different reasons. 

In other words, the outrage at Trump seems warranted to me regardless of the fine point of how long drugging has been part of the system that Trump is wrongfully throwing these kids into.   And, if Obama is somehow responsible for awful psychotropic drugging practices during his time, he deserves condemnation for that.   But it wouldn't excuse Trump or reduce the need to end the practice now. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Dahobbs 17383]

14 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Yes and no.   It would not be fair to assert that Trump has created the practice of drugging up hysterical migrant kids who have been separated from their parents.  But, while you are pointing out an accurate caveat to the story, I don't think it mitigates the outrage that should be directed at Trump on this particular basis.  Assuming the lawsuit has merit, it is entirely fair to be outraged at Trump for creating a new class of drugged migrant kids, where the government is both (1) responsible for the wrongful separation for evil reasons and (2) has the parents in hand such that they could make medical decisions for their kids, but is not involving them.   Even though this has been accomplished by throwing the kids into a pre-existing program of drugging migrant kids whose parents were unavailable for different reasons. 

In other words, the outrage at Trump seems warranted to me regardless of the fine point of how long drugging has been part of the system that Trump is wrongfully throwing these kids into.   And, if Obama is somehow responsible for awful psychotropic drugging practices during his time, he deserves condemnation for that.   But it wouldn't excuse Trump or reduce the need to end the practice now. 

I don't think his suggestion was that there shouldn't be outrage at Trump. In fact, it was the opposite. Be outraged at Trump for the terrible things has done and is doing. Also be outraged that some terrible things have happened in the past, and we need to make sure that past conduct isn't amplified by Trump's truly evil conduct. But let's not conflate everything together for the sake of political convenience. Let's fight with Trump with the truth, because the truth is that he is responsible for truly evil things. We don't need to dress it up anymore than that. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Js1 84974]

Don't worry y'all, the House bill is going to fail... again.

[Anastasis 23313]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

In other words, the outrage at Trump seems warranted to me regardless of the fine point of how long drugging has been part of the system that Trump is wrongfully throwing these kids into.   And, if Obama is somehow responsible for awful psychotropic drugging practices during his time, he deserves condemnation for that.   But it wouldn't excuse Trump or reduce the need to end the practice now. 

This has nothing to do with Obama or really even immigrants.  This issue has to do with a totally dysfunctional mental healthcare system in this country, and in particular the intersection of youth with serious mental and behavioral health issues with that system.  But I am glad that you and ant and others are finding a voice on the issue at this particular moment, no matter what led you to it. And I will stand right beside you when it keeps your attention for 1 second after Jan 2018/20. 

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I don't think his suggestion was that there shouldn't be outrage at Trump. In fact, it was the opposite. Be outraged at Trump for the terrible things has done and is doing. Also be outraged that some terrible things have happened in the past, and we need to make sure that past conduct isn't amplified by Trump's truly evil conduct. But let's not conflate everything together for the sake of political convenience. Let's fight with Trump with the truth, because the truth is that is responsible for truly evil things. We don't need to dress it up anymore than that. 

My rep button is used up for the day. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I don't think his suggestion was that there shouldn't be outrage at Trump. In fact, it was the opposite. Be outraged at Trump for the terrible things has done and is doing. Also be outraged that some terrible things have happened in the past, and we need to make sure that past conduct isn't amplified by Trump's truly evil conduct. But let's not conflate everything together for the sake of political convenience. Let's fight with Trump with the truth, because the truth is that is responsible for truly evil things. We don't need to dress it up anymore than that. 

I get that, but I'm saying that it is outrageous on this basis too, assuming the allegations in the lawsuit is true.   There is, apparently, a pre-existing practice in place of injecting upset unaccompanied migrant kids with psychotropic drugs.    Trump has instituted a policy that creates a new class of parentless hysterical children who will be subjected to this practice even though their parents are otherwise available to make medical decisions for them.   It's as fair to be outraged by that consequence of his policy as to be outraged that the kids will be kept in cages, given shitty food, and every other consequence that uses the pre-existing system in a new wrongful way. 

[bolverk 29243]

A day or so ago, I was listening to an interview on NPR on my way to work. The interviewee was a federal public defender based in El Paso trying to help asylum seekers and their kids. One point that really struck a nerve with me was him saying that the vast majority of them are the poorest of the poor from Guatemala and Honduras. They're largely uneducated and illiterate and only have the slightest understanding of what's going on.

He pointed to the fact that when the children were taken away, the parents would be given a phone number to check in on where their kids were. When his office followed up on the phone line it was just some 1-800 number that would put them on hold for hours. He said his office is using lawyers, paralegals, office staff, and interns to try to reach someone who knows anything about the status of the kids to almost no avail. When they can be reached, they're only allowed 10 minutes to visit.

Then, he said something along the lines of: "Imagine the frustration and fear of being one of these parents trying to navigate this system on their own."

Edited June 21, 2018 by bolverk

[David Dennison 18457]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think his suggestion was that there shouldn't be outrage at Trump. In fact, it was the opposite. Be outraged at Trump for the terrible things has done and is doing. Also be outraged that some terrible things have happened in the past, and we need to make sure that past conduct isn't amplified by Trump's truly evil conduct. But let's not conflate everything together for the sake of political convenience. Let's fight with Trump with the truth, because the truth is that he is responsible for truly evil things. We don't need to dress it up anymore than that. 

The problem is, Americans don't want to know the truth about their country. We prefer the mythology.

[bolverk 29243]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This has nothing to do with Obama or really even immigrants.  This issue has to do with a totally dysfunctional mental healthcare system in this country, and in particular the intersection of youth with serious mental and behavioral health issues with that system.  But I am glad that you and ant and others are finding a voice on the issue at this particular moment, no matter what led you to it. And I will stand right beside you when it keeps your attention for 1 second after Jan 2018/20. 

1

Gotdammit, statis.

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, bolverk said:

Gotdammit, statis.

Hey, his team is going to have their chance to fix the mental healthcare system.  If the topic keeps their political attention span after they take control of the government, I will line up beside them and support their effort. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This has nothing to do with Obama or really even immigrants.  This issue has to do with a totally dysfunctional mental healthcare system in this country, and in particular the intersection of youth with serious mental and behavioral health issues with that system.  But I am glad that you and ant and others are finding a voice on the issue at this particular moment, no matter what led you to it. And I will stand right beside you when it keeps your attention for 1 second after Jan 2018/20. 

The number of problems in our world is too high to count, and at the societal level they have to be triaged.  Nobody has the time or resources to focus on every issue at once.   I'm glad people like you are focused on this issue all of the time, just like I'm glad that immigration rights advocates were constantly on Obama for bad practices under his administration.  I have my own day-to-day niche that is unrelated to immigration or mental health issues, but is important in its own way. 

But what this entire scandal is really about is more intangible than discrete areas of policy.  It's the overall direction Trump is leading this country on immigrants.   It's something that is difficult to argue about in a partisan environment, much less on a message board, because it's expressed through tone and words and presumptions and subtle shifts in how situations are treated.   Something concrete like this blows up because it is so clear and easy to rally around, but that doesn't mean that there's suddenly a hypocritical focus on specific small policy issues that nobody cared about before.   It's just an expression of outrage over the overall gestalt by means of an illustrative example. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Bozo_Casanova 26128]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Hey, his team is going to have their chance to fix the mental healthcare system.  If the topic keeps their political attention span after they take control of the government, I will line up beside them and support their effort. 

It won't. The consequences of the barbaric state of mental healthcare in this country are too valuable for either party to do anything meaningful to make it better. 

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

It won't. The consequences of the barbaric state of mental healthcare in this country are too valuable for either party to do anything meaningful to make it better. 

Now don't you go getting all #bothsides with me motherfucker. 

 

ps. im out of rep today or you and mojo would be getting one for the last couple posts. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Anastasis

[David Dennison 18457]

So the most incompetent administration in American history is now going to have to reunite over 2,000 migrant children with their parents.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

[Js1 84974]

Just now, David Dennison said:

So the most incompetent administration in American history is now going to have to reunite over 2,000 migrant children with their parents.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

Have to?

Honey, no, there's no plans to do that.

[HenryJames 65816]

 

[David Dennison 18457]

Just now, Js1 said:

Have to?

Honey, no, there's no plans to do that.

The political pressure forced him to end the policy. 

It's not going to let up on the Republican Party until the White House does something about the separated children.

So yes, have to is how it's going to go down.

[bolverk 29243]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Hey, his team is going to have their chance to fix the mental healthcare system.  If the topic keeps their political attention span after they take control of the government, I will line up beside them and support their effort. 

Then let's agree to keep each of us accountable from here on end. We're a representative democracy, which means we all have a choice and voice. Because of that, we are collectively responsible for all the good and bad our government does. And I don't doubt for one second that you would hesitate to agree with this. We're on the same page.

Had I been aware of the policy to misuse drugs for keeping kids calm during the previous administration, I'd be just as mortified. Yeah, the media haven't always been the best in reporting this shit. But now that there is a public awareness, we - collectively - should react accordingly.

(I hope the above doesn't sound like it's coming off as a lecture.)

[Brisketexan 104216]

Oh, and more opportunities to help (got this email from the State Bar just a little while ago):

Quote

Dear Member,

I am writing with a quick update on the recent events occurring on our southern border. Although the Trump administration signed an executive order to end family separations, the need for volunteer attorneys remains strong—particularly Spanish-speaking immigration lawyers.

Whenever we have had manmade or natural disasters in this state, Texas lawyers have risen to the occasion to help those who cannot help themselves. I have found the only impediment is not knowing how to help. Below are resources for you to get involved and make a difference.

On Monday, the Austin Bar Association will offer training on how to help families separated at the border. The in-person CLE session titled Responding to Zero-Tolerance: Credible Fear and Immigration Bond Hearing Training is sold out, but the Austin Bar will live-stream the training on Periscope for all who wish to watch and learn more. For more details on how to download Periscope and watch, click here.

The South Texas Pro Bono Asylum Representation Project (ProBAR)—a joint project of the American Bar Association, the State Bar of Texas, and the American Immigration Lawyers Association—is requesting volunteers who are fluent in Spanish and have some background in immigration law. For more information, go here. 

Catholic Charities is seeking attorneys able to provide direct representation for children’s immigration cases and is also accepting donations including books, toys, supplies, and other items, for detained children. To express a desire to provide representation, email probono@catholiccharities.org.

American Gateways has reported that it could use attorneys immediately to help with limited representation for Credible Fear Interviews and Reasonable Fear Interviews, and help preparing for bond hearings. You can sign up to volunteer here.

This news story contains a list of legal and humanitarian organizations that are mobilizing to help immigrant children and families. And the Houston Immigration Legal Services Collaborative has this page on how to help. Many of the organizations listed on both of these pages are seeking volunteers or donations.

Assuring equal access to justice and supporting the administration of the legal system are essential parts of our State Bar’s mission. We will continue to identify and provide resources to lawyers and the public to aid in responding to this situation.

Sincerely,

  

Tom Vick 
President, State Bar of Texas

 

And faith leaders who have previously been quiet, local types, are out there in action.  My wife had to send a proxy (a fellow clergy member) to a planned meeting with Senator Cornyn's staff yesterday (she had to be in Houston tending to dear friends and cancer crisis at MD Anderson).  While she has been a clergy voice with our leadership, many others joined her for the first time.

Whoever you are, you have a place, you have a voice.  Not just a vote, but a VOICE. Your voice is heard most loudly with action behind it. Speak with words.  Speak with actions.  Speak with financial pressure (both positive and negative -- donate money where it helps, let businesses know that if they help this administration, they will lose your business).

Enough with the defense bullshit.  The people of "good" playing passive defense is a losing strategy.

Counterattack.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Pancho 44147]

Oh boy, first lady Melanie is going to the US-Mexico border to visit children. 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26128]

My wife texted me and said Melania is wearing her "Orphan Pumps".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

11 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

Oh boy, first lady Melanie is going to the US-Mexico border to visit children. 

 

She's probably trying to flee from domestic emotional abuse. 

[Tuco 5076]

16 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

My wife texted me and said Melania is wearing her "Orphan Pumps".

The CNN article indicated that she informed her staff and her husband that she was going in the last 48 hours.  And yesterday Trump caved on the policy. 

I can't say I'm Melania's biggest fan, but I think she may have played a massive role in getting Trump to end his policy.  My respect for her has just increased considerably.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tuco

[staboner 4955]

34 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Now don't you go getting all #bothsides with me motherfucker. 

 

ps. im out of rep today or you and mojo would be getting one for the last couple posts. 

outta rep at 11AM. 

[staboner 4955]

48 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The problem is, Americans don't want to know the truth about their country. We prefer the mythology.

yep. gotta think the only way is for this bully to get punched in the face. don't see how else we realize our shit does stink

[Celery Man 20832]

The CNN article indicated that she informed her staff and her husband that she was going in the last 48 hours.  And yesterday Trump caved on the policy. 
I can't say I'm Melania's biggest fan, but I think she may have played a massive role in getting Trump to end his policy.  My respect for her has just increased considerably.

Interesting

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The CNN article indicated that she informed her staff and her husband that she was going in the last 48 hours.  And yesterday Trump caved on the policy. 

I can't say I'm Melania's biggest fan, but I think she may have played a massive role in getting Trump to end his policy.  My respect for her has just increased considerably.

She's fool's gold.  Only a propaganda tool for the Trump regime now. 

[Anastasis 23313]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She's fool's gold.  Only a propaganda tool for the Trump regime now. 

Yeah, let's be real. This is a propaganda tour. 

[bolverk 29243]

Did something happen yesterday afternoon to cause our most vocal immigration hard-liners and kiddie concentration camp supporters to stop posting? It's like they've disappeared or something.

Can someone clue me in?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

11 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The CNN article indicated that she informed her staff and her husband that she was going in the last 48 hours.  And yesterday Trump caved on the policy. 

I can't say I'm Melania's biggest fan, but I think she may have played a massive role in getting Trump to end his policy.  My respect for her has just increased considerably.

Maybe.  Or maybe she's being cynically deployed by the administration to humanize her husband's response.  I'll reserve judgment and see how much credit she gives the arsonist for putting out his own fire. 

[kevwun 15565]

The lies for this one were so blatant and awful that it had to get through to at least a few of them.

[hayden_horn 11350]

7 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Maybe.  Or maybe she's being cynically deployed by the administration to humanize her husband's response.  I'll reserve judgment and see how much credit she gives the arsonist for putting out his own fire. 

well, she's a lot of things, but i think she's not a monster like the rest of them. she's a mother, and a prisoner of sorts herself. she's made it clear that her focus is going to be on helping children. i believe that she's sincere. i guess we will see. if she succeeds in shining some light on the horrific plight of these immigrants, then more the better, in my opinion.