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hayden_horn

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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I wouldn't be surprised if it's real.  Extremism on one side tends to feed on extremism on the other side.   A guy with those views is thrilled to have Trump to rally people against.  And Trump will be thrilled to have him to rally his people against as well. 

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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12,395

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5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it's real.  Extremism on one side tends to feed on extremism on the other side.   A guy with those views is thrilled to have Trump to rally people against.  And Trump will be thrilled to have him to rally his people against as well. 

Yep and this is the trap that Democrats are falling into right now - basically the Dems are tacitly advocating for open borders and ANY immigration enforcement is unlawful or a crime against humanity.

David Frum's piece in the Atlantic this week and this one in The Week explain how any "Blue Wave" is muted or eliminated altogether.

 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1,798

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Dems are not even tacitly calling for open borders. They have been clear that separating families is a horrible policy and that children shouldn't be held in camps where congressmen and women are being refused entry. Don't buy into that bullshit.

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Nivek

Nivek 16,956

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It's shoddy journalism.  And they have egg all over their face.

They made a mistake and owned it. They may have a little egg on their lap. Compared to the shit covered in jizz that drapes your entire body, I think they they are fine. You are a horrible person, and you should be deported to Russia. You are the modern equivalent of the self-appointed whores that fucked the German soldiers during occupation.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it's real.  Extremism on one side tends to feed on extremism on the other side.   A guy with those views is thrilled to have Trump to rally people against.  And Trump will be thrilled to have him to rally his people against as well. 

If anyone in the Mexican election is a Kremlin stooge, it’s Obrador.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/01/world/americas/mexico-election-fake-news.amp.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/20/mexico-leftwing-andres-manuel-lopez-obrador

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retread

retread 2,951

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Protesters in McAllen are blocking a bus of children trying to exit the facility.

Sen. Bill Nelson got into the Homestead, FL facility but wasn't allowed to see the children. He believes the children have been there for much more than 20 days.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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5 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Dems are not even tacitly calling for open borders. They have been clear that separating families is a horrible policy and that children shouldn't be held in camps where congressmen and women are being refused entry. Don't buy into that bullshit.

Dems in Texas were calling for open borders right before 9/11.  They were also calling for a shared healthcare system with Mexico for the border region.  And they wanted the children of illegals to be educated. 

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Today we begin a new dialogue about our shared future, a future of promising potential if we work together to solve the challenges we both face. It is fitting that we convene this summit where the great, meandering river known as the Rio Grande – or the Rio Bravo – forms the long border between Texas and Mexico. In years past, that famed body of water has been seen by many as a dividing point, If you were to walk along its banks and look to the other side, based on the stereotypes of the past, you would think you were seeing things a million miles away, instead of a stone’s throw away. But I am here today to say that while we have honest differences, there is more that unites us than divides us. The Rio Grande does not separate two nations, it joins two peoples. Mexico and the United States have a shared history, and a common future. And it is along this border where we will either fail or succeed in addressing the education, health care and transportation needs of our two peoples.

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The fruits of NAFTA have just begun to ripen. At the same time, we must not allow the roots of the tree to become poisoned. The NAFTA agreement not only signaled a new era of economic possibility, but a new era of bi-national cooperation. That is why it is wrong, and inherently detrimental to our relationship with Mexico for the U.S. Congress to pursue a protectionist policy that forbids Mexican trucks from U.S. roadways. It is bad public policy, and it violates the terms of the NAFTA agreement we agreed to. Mexican trucks that meet our safety standards should be given the same access to U.S. roads as our Canadian neighbors to the north.

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There are other challenges that require a unified approach, especially in the area of health care. A lack of preventative medicine means conditions that could have been eliminated through childhood immunizations show up in disturbing numbers later in life. Limited availability of medical specialists means conditions like heart disease and diabetes go untreated at alarming rates. In Texas, we recently placed a strong emphasis on preventative care when we expanded access to Medicaid for more low-income children by making the Medicaid enrollment process simpler. We allocated an additional $4 billion to the Medicaid program, and more than $900 million to the Children’s Health Insurance Program. I urged legislators to pass a telemedicine pilot program that will enable, through technology, a sick border resident of limited financial means to receive care from a specialist hundreds of miles away. But the effort to combat disease and illness requires greater cooperative efforts between our two nations. It is a simple truth that disease knows no boundaries. An outbreak of drug-resistant tuberculosis, for example, endangers citizens of both our nations. We have much to gain if we work together to expand preventative care, and treat maladies unique to this region.

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Legislation authored by border legislators Pat Haggerty and Eddie Lucio establishes an important study that will look at the feasibility of bi-national health insurance. This study recognizes that the Mexican and U.S. sides of the border compose one region, and we must address health care problems throughout that region. That’s why I am also excited that Texas Secretary of State Henry Cuellar is working on an initiative that could extend the benefits of telemedicine to individuals living on the Mexican side of the border.

As a compassionate state, we know that for our children to succeed, they must not only be healthy, but educated. The future leaders of our two nations are learning their fractions and their ABC’s in classrooms all along this border. Immigrants from around the world are being taught in Texas classrooms, and our history is rich with examples of new citizens who have made great contributions. We must say to every Texas child learning in a Texas classroom, “we don’t care where you come from, but where you are going, and we are going to do everything we can to help you get there.” And that vision must include the children of undocumented workers. That’s why Texas took the national lead in allowing such deserving young minds to attend a Texas college at a resident rate. Those young minds are a part of a new generation of leaders, the doors of higher education must be open to them. The message is simple: educacion es el futuro, y si se puede.

Open borders was serious business before 9/11

Quote

President Fox’s vision for an open border is a vision I embrace, as long as we demonstrate the will to address the obstacles to it. An open border means poverty has given way to opportunity, and Mexico’s citizens do not feel compelled to cross the border to find that opportunity. It means we have addressed pollution concerns, made substantial progress in stopping the spread of disease, and rid our crossings of illicit drug smuggling activity. Clearly we have a long way to go in addressing those issues. At the same time we must continue to deepen our economic ties, expanding opportunities for Mexican and U.S. companies to do business on both sides of the border. The outlook is promising, even if the road to prosperity is a long one. We share a bond as neighbors, and we find our culture north of the Rio Grande to be increasingly defined by the strong traits of people of Hispanic descent. Texas has long enjoyed a unique identity, an identity forged by an independent spirit, and the convergence of many different peoples. We must welcome change in the 21st Century as we have in every century before it.

Today, as we look to the south, we see a rising sun. It is perched above a people whose best days are in front of them. Let us endeavor to make the most of this new day through a new dialogue. Let us work together to combat disease, expand trade and provide educational opportunities. If we do, there are no limits to what we can accomplish for the betterment of all of our citizens. Thank you, and God bless you

Full speech:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150117150935/http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,944

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2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Dems in Texas were calling for open borders right before 9/11.  They were also calling for a shared healthcare system with Mexico for the border region.  And they wanted the children of illegals to be educated. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Open borders was serious business before 9/11

Full speech:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150117150935/http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/

 

So Texas Republicans were also calling for open borders. 

I forgot about that.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,194

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So....you’re citing a speech that says, in summarized form, “we agree with President Fox, open borders would be great, as long as a huge laundry list of conditions [which happen to be all the things Trumpkins are freaked out about] are met?” Solid. Well-done.

 

The funny thing is, that sort of thinking reflects where W was, and where Perry was, before the party went full know-nothing nativist. I was there with them. I respected and generally agreed with their take on the border back then.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So Texas Republicans were also calling for open borders. 

I forgot about that.

Oh yeah, keep forgetting Perry was a former Democrat when he gave that speech, but you could still tell what was in his heart.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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Just now, Brisketexan said:


So....you’re citing a speech that says, in summarized form, “we agree with President Fox, open borders would be great, as long as a huge laundry list of conditions [which happen to be all the things Trumpkins are freaked out about] are met?” Solid. Well-done.

Perry had that speech scrubbed from the main Governor's site sometime around the time he started getting serious about running for President.

And he probably had his speeches/remarks about guest worker programs scrubbed as well, but I just remember that particular one where he was asking for healthcare and education for the kids of illegal immigrants.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,194

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The crazy thing is that all of those things that Perry was calling for in 2001 would have done more to stabilize the border, and probably even lower illegal immigration, than anything Trump has done.

 

This. It was rational, realistic, measured, and even cooperative with the Mexican government.....which would have been much more effective than our current middle finger to them.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. It was rational, realistic, measured, and even cooperative with the Mexican government.....which would have been much more effective than our current middle finger to them.

And the thing is, while nobody was going to talk about open borders after 9/11, the GOP (Perry, Bush, McCain, etc.) were pushing guest worker programs and close cooperation with Mexico as late as 2006-2007.

It also recognized the reality of the border situation.  Trump has no fucking clue how frequently folks on both sides used to cross the border, and he has no clue about how closely intertwined our economies are along the border.

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scottsins

scottsins 1,969

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25 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And the thing is, while nobody was going to talk about open borders after 9/11, the GOP (Perry, Bush, McCain, etc.) were pushing guest worker programs and close cooperation with Mexico as late as 2006-2007.

It also recognized the reality of the border situation.  Trump has no fucking clue how frequently folks on both sides used to cross the border, and he has no clue about how closely intertwined our economies are along the border.

Are your you just going  to keep ignoring brisket’s comments about the context of the “open borders” thing?

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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22 minutes ago, scottsins said:

Are your you just going  to keep ignoring brisket’s comments about the context of the “open borders” thing?

Well, when Brisket said “as long as a huge laundry list of conditions [which happen to be all the things Trumpkins are freaked out about] are met?”, he ignored the fact that there is no way in hell the Trumpkins would agree to things like bi-national health insurance, education for kids of illegals, etc. etc . that Perry was pushing as a means to stabilize and improve the conditions along the border.   Or maybe he wasn’t ignoring and it didn’t need saying.

Go on The Donald reddit, and post the bolder parts of that speech as some thoughts you have about the border.   See how fast you are banned and/or accused of supporting Bernie Sanders/Pelosi/Crying Schumer. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,404

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The consequences of zero tolerance.  Fewer resources being deployed on drug smuggling.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/22/zero-tolerance-immigration-crackdown-diverting-resources-drug-cases/727532002/

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Federal prosecutors warned they were diverting resources from drug-smuggling cases in southern California to handle the flood of immigration charges brought on by the Trump administration’s border crackdown, records obtained by USA TODAY show.

Days after Attorney General Jeff Sessions instructed prosecutors to bring charges against anyone who enters the United States illegally, a Justice Department supervisor in San Diego sent an email to border authorities warning that immigration cases “will occupy substantially more of our resources.” He wrote that the U.S. Attorney’s Office there was “diverting staff, both support and attorneys, accordingly.”

The email, sent by the lawyer who runs the office’s major crimes unit, said prosecutors needed to streamline their work on smuggling cases. He said that would mean tight deadlines – sometimes just a few hours to produce reports and recordings – for those that would land in federal court. Going forward, the lawyer, Fred Sheppard, warned, if agents can’t meet that high bar, “the case will be declined.”

Quote

The border crackdown has produced a high-speed assembly line of minor cases in federal courts from California to Texas, more than doubling the caseloads there. This month alone, USA TODAY identified more than 4,100 migrants who were charged with minor crimes after crossing into the United States from Mexico.

Kelly Thornton, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office, said in a statement that the Justice Department “has given our district the necessary resources – including 10 additional prosecutor positions plus at least five Department of Defense attorneys - to prosecute all of these crimes.” She said the number of smuggling cases prosecuted there is on track to go up this year.

Still, there are signs that border authorities are seeking to prosecute drug smugglers in state courts instead, even though the possible sentences typically are harsher in the federal system.

 

 

 

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retread

retread 2,951

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From the end of May but still pertinent. Maybe someone else can explain the details, but reclassifying the children as unaccompanied puts them on a different track than their parents and may make it more difficult for them to be reunited. There doesn't seem to much of an effort to document the child-parent relationship (e.g. in a common database). Also, if they're turned over to a foster caretaker, that person may have some say in whether the child can return to his/her parents?

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And the landscape has changed. What had been, at best, a gray area is quickly becoming a dark morass. In early May, when Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the new policy, he said, “If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law.” His definition of “smuggling” included travelling with a child of one’s own. That accompanied child would be reclassified as unaccompanied. Since then, there have been wrenching scenes of parents being separated from small children, who do not understand what is happening, by border officials who are not necessarily trained to explain it to anyone—even if they had an explanation that made sense.

In 2014, according to a congressional report released that year, the median age of the unaccompanied minors was sixteen. But, even in the months before the Sessions policy formally went into place, there were reports that a hundred children under the age of four had been taken from their parents, in what amounted to a test run of the new policy, and reclassified as “unaccompanied.” A sixteen-year-old can attest that a would-be sponsor is really, say, an uncle or a cousin. A very young child cannot. In an atmosphere of fear, who will the sponsors be? Or will children just be kept locked up, in detention centers distant from those where their parents are held?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-case-of-the-missing-immigrant-children

 

 

 

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retread

retread 2,951

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Haven't you heard? They're massing at our *Southern* Border!!1 ISIS, Al Qaeda, MS-13, the Apple Dumpling Gang, the Van Buren Boys, Bonnie and Clyde's great-grandchildren, and other assorted hoodlums are about to flood into the US!

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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Just now, David Dennison said:

The Democrats need to hammer home the fact that they have bills that would pass both houses if Paul Ryan would just disregard the Hastert Rule and bring them to the floor.

 

Imagine that, the Hastert rule is being used to harm children. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,194

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Republicans making up shit.  Not surprised.  I think these fuckers want to start a race war
 

It’s not really a question anymore.

They have no purpose other than demonizing the “other.” Its the dog whistle their base runs to, and they’ll blow it till they turn blue.
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,774

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18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


It’s not really a question anymore.

They have no purpose other than demonizing the “other.” Its the dog whistle their base runs to, and they’ll blow it till they turn blue.

When I worked for a large tech corporation, we put more effort into keeping track of laptops than the feds put into keeping track of these kids and their families  

Hell, when I was in the Army, we out more effort into keeping track of all sorts of equipment (not just rifles and sidearms) than the feds put into keeping track of these kids and their families  

I don’t think they planned on reuniting the families.  By scattering the kids around the country, they were out to not only keep them separated, but make it as difficult as possible to reunite the families.

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