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hayden_horn

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11365

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7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, how about we look at immigration and border issues from January 2021 to present, and compare the population-adjusted numbers and impacts to those of prior administrations/years/decades.  When you do, you see that we don't actually have much of an OBJECTIVE crisis.  Ignore the noise and shrieking from the nativist crowd who has revived the "great replacement theory" bullshit.

Generally, our immigration issues are no worse -- but also no better -- than they have been for the past 30+ years.

Yep.  Want to know the last one of those to even make a run at intelligent, effective immigration policy action?  Good old W.  But alas, he was a few years too later -- by his time, the nativist trend on the right had taken control, and the democratic opposition to everything W thought or did trumped any objective consideration of policy.

We've always had cross-border immigration of brown people, generally to find work.

We've always had a broad spectrum of asylum seekers or similar types fleeing persecution, failed states, desperate circumstances, etc.  We've had nativist stupidity reactions multiple times....

32af1833-f667-4a30-b85a-4df1c5df98e9_tex

....and it's been utterly stupid each and every time.

Fuck the Chinese.

Irish need not apply.

Those dirty jews bring their communism.

Damned mexicans will bring us a taco truck on every corner.

Every fucking time, we've been dead-wrong.  Yet, we keep playing the stupidity hits, because

3gwdow.png  

Simple measures to manage, control, and monitor immigration are there for the taking.  Again, we don't even need to reinvent the wheel -- we can just dust off various programs and mechanisms we've used in the past and update them (will be even easier now with technology and interconnectivity).  But as we all know, 0% of the current conversation is about the actual issue of immigration.  It is entirely about setting political fires and fanning the flames, using good old fashioned demonization as an (effective) political tool.  It's effective because it works.  As demonstrated by people on this very thread who THINK they're smart, but are just being sheep led down the same old nativist path like their idiotic forebearers were.  ANTI-CHINESE LEAGUE!

 

i agree with you 100% but biden has fumbled this issue away because he thinks other issues of his have his priority.

but letting Republican governors shape the narrative is weak af

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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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Boss Hogg

Boss Hogg 808

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On 1/10/2024 at 9:46 AM, Brisketexan said:

Well, how about we look at immigration and border issues from January 2021 to present, and compare the population-adjusted numbers and impacts to those of prior administrations/years/decades.  When you do, you see that we don't actually have much of an OBJECTIVE crisis.  Ignore the noise and shrieking from the nativist crowd who has revived the "great replacement theory" bullshit.

Generally, our immigration issues are no worse -- but also no better -- than they have been for the past 30+ years.

Where have you seen population adjusted numbers? I am skeptical. 

You will say anecdotal, but I've lived or had direct family members living in one of the highest traffic sectors for about 40 years. Both apprehended illegals and not (passing by on game cameras) numbers are substantially higher. Also, incidents involving property damage and calling BP much higher. Just telling you what Texans on the ground are seeing. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105276

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6 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Where have you seen population adjusted numbers? I am skeptical. 

You will say anecdotal, but I've lived or had direct family members living in one of the highest traffic sectors for about 40 years. Both apprehended illegals and not (passing by on game cameras) numbers are substantially higher. Also, incidents involving property damage and calling BP much higher. Just telling you what Texans on the ground are seeing. 

From what I understand, illegal crossing "traffic" has been close to current levels for around 25-30 years (coincidentally -- I'm sure -- tying to the rise of quasi-narco states in Central America, thanks to the War on Drugs).

I'm aware of conditions at the border -- it's where my family is from, a good bit still being there, and I work with some border communities.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Wasn't there also a report/study/investigation that was published somewhat recently that examined how some areas of Texas were seeing greater numbers because they were becoming essentially choke points? Going off memory--some of it was avoiding police/agents and some of it was due to trying to come in through areas that were deemed 'safer.' Safer as in the travel through Mexico was problematic due to violence, robbery, etc and word of mouth influenced which groups tried to get in via which location. To the eye, that might seem like a greater number but only due to other "roads" being closed. A traffic jam that is somewhat artificially created in other words. The highest number of illegal persons in the US is still people who overstay their visas.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
@elfinix read my mind.
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hornmpa96

hornmpa96 2620

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1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

Where have you seen population adjusted numbers? I am skeptical. 

You will say anecdotal, but I've lived or had direct family members living in one of the highest traffic sectors for about 40 years. Both apprehended illegals and not (passing by on game cameras) numbers are substantially higher. Also, incidents involving property damage and calling BP much higher. Just telling you what Texans on the ground are seeing. 

With respect to the property damage comment, how much of the damage is caused by poorly thought out pursuits by law enforcement?

It’s my impression that most of the property damages to ranches occurs due to high-speed chases with law enforcement. I don’t know the answer to this, but a lot of the complaints may disappear if we didn’t have fences damaged due to the multiple car chases everyday.

This is coming from a ranch-owner in South Texas.

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Boss Hogg

Boss Hogg 808

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1 hour ago, elfenix said:

this feels like observation bias.

That's why I prefaced it with just being my experience. 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

From what I understand, illegal crossing "traffic" has been close to current levels for around 25-30 years (coincidentally -- I'm sure -- tying to the rise of quasi-narco states in Central America, thanks to the War on Drugs).

I'm aware of conditions at the border -- it's where my family is from, a good bit still being there, and I work with some border communities.

You're asserting things pretty boldly based on “your understanding”? Got it. 

Ok you have connections to the border? What are you hearing?

I'd like to see any surly poster from the border region that says the current amount of illegal traffic and activity is the normal. 

 

8 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

With respect to the property damage comment, how much of the damage is caused by poorly thought out pursuits by law enforcement?

It’s my impression that most of the property damages to ranches occurs due to high-speed chases with law enforcement. I don’t know the answer to this, but a lot of the complaints may disappear if we didn’t have fences damaged due to the multiple car chases everyday.

This is coming from a ranch-owner in South Texas.

You're correct. It’s mostly stolen vehicles through fences. I don't think the answer is not pursuing illegal activity.

 

There's a myriad of other ways that you can tell that traffic is higher that involves property. You as another South Texas ranch owner are probably familiar with that. 

 

What are you seeing? Historically normal stuff?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105276

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22 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

You're asserting things pretty boldly based on “your understanding”? Got it. 

Ok you have connections to the border? What are you hearing?

I'd like to see any surly poster from the border region that says the current amount of illegal traffic and activity is the normal. 

I just did a quick google-fu and found the Pew Research center's numbers showing that current levels are about the same over the past 25 years (a spike, and some periodic downticks):

SR_23.11.16_unauthorized-immigrants_1.pn

And from my work with folks on the border, there's no question that they are seeing a strain on resources due to current activity.  There's also bi-partisan unanimity down there that something needs to be done to better control and handle the people arriving at the border.  The difference in opinion is as to approach.  The "show up with guns and razor wire and walls" approach is literally a proven failure.  We HAVE militarized and hardened the shit out of the border in recent years....do you see it working?  Not even making a dent.  Physical barriers DO. NOT. WORK.* (Unless they are multi-layered and manned literally every 50 yards -- see the Berlin Wall.  So, not something that will work on a many-hundreds-of-miles border).

Address root causes (the reasons why they are fleeing failed narco states....that are that way because of 1) America's insatiable desire for drugs, and 2) our policy of making them illegal so that they are provided only by criminal organizations that end up with more resources and power than local nation states, as just one example).  Saturate the communities of origin with communication and information discouraging illegal entry.  Set up a more robust system for handling, processing, adjudicating and yes, deporting when appropriate -- dedicate the resources to process people in months as opposed to years, and those folks showing up with bad asylum claims will be sent home much more quickly.  Oh, and for those folks who CAN be here temporarily (even short/medium term), get them processed and on the books so that they can work (thus providing for themselves AND paying taxes).

The people I know in border communities generally have voiced support for comprehensive solutions, because - no surprise - complex issues require multi-dimensional effort.

There is no will to do so.  This issue has one value, and one value only: politics, grandstanding, and tough guy posing with .50 cals on boats on the Rio Grande.  your team has none, zero, nada, zilch interest in actually solving the problem.  They just want to put on as much performative tough guy badassery as possible.  You know, it, I know it, everyone with an IQ above room temp knows it.  So, I really don't know why we keep having this conversation.  You are getting EXACTLY what you want: an opportunity to keep scoring political points for your team, on FOX News, night after night.  Chalk up the win, and call it a day.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13057

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16 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

He also mentions low birth rates and needing to maintain population growth to maintain the welfare state. Therefore, we need more immigrants. 

Are you disagreeing with either of those premises?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4638

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9 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

With respect to the property damage comment, how much of the damage is caused by poorly thought out pursuits by law enforcement?

It’s my impression that most of the property damages to ranches occurs due to high-speed chases with law enforcement. I don’t know the answer to this, but a lot of the complaints may disappear if we didn’t have fences damaged due to the multiple car chases everyday.

This is coming from a ranch-owner in South Texas.

We get hit every other year or so. Gate blown off the posts and part of a Chevy bumper in the weeds.  Have had 2x stolen KR trucks and 1x Chevy.   Same road. Same gate entrance.  Once was down a easement road thru the high fence.   Funny enough, we’ve never had the normal travel (by foot) issues, or the camphouse or trailer broken into.  Just vehicle pursuits. 

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hornmpa96

hornmpa96 2620

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11 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

There's a myriad of other ways that you can tell that traffic is higher that involves property. You as another South Texas ranch owner are probably familiar with that. 

 

What are you seeing? Historically normal stuff?

My place is off the beaten path and I have about 1 incident per year under each of the last 2 administrations.

Also, I’ve only had vehicle issues and have never had any problems with break-ins, etc.

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Satchel

Satchel 6948

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While Republican politicians shamelessly lie about “open borders”, here’s what their voters are dealing with:

In Florida - https://www.yahoo.com/news/floridas-immigration-law-brings-significant-010711141.html

Historically, though, we've had plenty of crews," Conlan said. "In the last year our crew count has been cut in half."

The law requires businesses like his, with 25 or more employees, to check employees' legal status through a database called E-Verify.  He says it's cumbersome and puts him at a disadvantage with smaller roofers who don't have that requirement.

"I am not a fan of open borders," Conlan said. "But I am a fan of putting people to work in this community who are contributing to the community. There's got to be a way to get them into this system where they get paid a fair wage, and they pay their fair taxes, and everybody gets back to work

And in Iowa - https://www.axios.com/local/des-moines/2021/07/23/iowa-farmworker-shortage-immigration-reform-grassley

Jen Sorenson, a spokesperson for Iowa Select Farms, testified before a Senate committee Wednesday that severe labor shortages could lead to the closure of farms and packing plants.

  • An increasing need for workers in the face of rural population declines cannot be overcome without "foreign-born labor," Sorenson testified.
  • Current visa programs designed for seasonal agriculture fail to meet the year-round needs of livestock farmers, she said.
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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26077

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17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Also legalize all drugs and put the cartels out of business. 

They are already taking over other industries. Avocados is one. Remember that you see a Karen ordering avocado toast. Also, Aquaculture, mining, logging, IT, etc. They ain't going away.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18022

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They are already taking over other industries. Avocados is one. Remember that you see a Karen ordering avocado toast. Also, Aquaculture, mining, logging, IT, etc. They ain't going away.

The cartel avocado industry has the best Super Bowl commercials!
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Captainant

Captainant 27727

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12 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

It has in some places. Albania being one of them. Would bet they are involved in El Salvador's BitCoin revolution 

Idk if you've been reading, but it's been more of a regression than revolution. Turns out BTC isn't a great currency for small transactions, and it's really hard to get security right 

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26077

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22 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Not US, but NA related (and because guys like @Brisketexanand others who are looking up north for college:

Canada: The immigration minister is pushing to cap the number of foreign students admitted into Canada, to tackle a persistent housing crisis. Rent has gone up 22% in the last two years, while almost a million foreign students were admitted to Canadian schools last year. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67964674.amp

Um, it also ties into their relations, quite strained, with India. That is where a lot of students come from.

Talk to my kiddos Kurdish boyfriend about living in DC. Talk to the average Longhorn about rent.

"It isn't immigrants that raised interest rates, but volume is volume and it's something that we need to look at," he said in an interview with CBC, Canada's public broadcaster.

From the article. So maybe more universities up north? University of BANNF. The Elk. Would suck at baseball, but damn imagine that hockey team.

Edited by InkaUtexas
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105276

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

Not US, but NA related (and because guys like @Brisketexanand others who are looking up north for college:

Canada: The immigration minister is pushing to cap the number of foreign students admitted into Canada, to tackle a persistent housing crisis. Rent has gone up 22% in the last two years, while almost a million foreign students were admitted to Canadian schools last year. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67964674.amp

It's actually a common problem in many countries where 1) uni is very cheap/free for locals, so 2) they have boosted the number of international students admitted to increase revenue.  Invite in 10,000 more people to a city that doesn't have housing for them, and you have a challenge.  The common university town challenge, enhanced because you're increasing enrollment (doesn't matter from where - it just matters that there are now 10,000 more people in Montreal, or Glasgow, than the prior housing supply was built for).

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elfenix

elfenix 34331

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Not US, but NA related (and because guys like [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention]and others who are looking up north for college:
Canada: The immigration minister is pushing to cap the number of foreign students admitted into Canada, to tackle a persistent housing crisis. Rent has gone up 22% in the last two years, while almost a million foreign students were admitted to Canadian schools last year. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67964674.amp
This made r/badeconomics
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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26077

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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's actually a common problem in many countries where 1) uni is very cheap/free for locals, so 2) they have boosted the number of international students admitted to increase revenue.  Invite in 10,000 more people to a city that doesn't have housing for them, and you have a challenge.  The common university town challenge, enhanced because you're increasing enrollment (doesn't matter from where - it just matters that there are now 10,000 more people in Montreal, or Glasgow, than the prior housing supply was built for).

Please add DC to that list.

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HenryJames

HenryJames 66161

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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/18/oklahoma-bill-labels-hispanic-people-terrorists

Quote

An Oklahoma lawmaker is facing backlash for proposing a discriminatory bill that deems people of Hispanic descent as “terrorists”.

The Republican state representative JJ Humphrey introduced the bill, HB 3133, which seeks to combat problems in the state, such as drug and human trafficking, and lay out punishments to those who have committed these “acts of terrorism”.

The punishment for such a crime would be forfeiting all assets, including any and all property, vehicles and money.

In addition to “a member of a criminal street gang” and someone who “has been convicted of a gang-related offense”, the bill defines a terrorist as “any person who is of Hispanic descent living within the state of Oklahoma”.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.7f802fc02328d640ddf842dc8a687d51.png

 

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